Hardmirror created the thread https://www.nairaland.com/3078223/pastor-atheist-why-never-christian on April 30 2016 which details his journey from being a pastor who performed miracles to atheism and right now has a total of 43,624 Views

he also opened a continuation of the same thread https://www.nairaland.com/3085047/part-2-pastor-atheist-why on May 4 2016 which has 15,566 Views

this thread is really touching and deep, so its no surprise seeing Christians on this forum throw a fit about it, most say its a lie, many say he's a satanist, few are more empathetic and try to explain things better

to cite a few examples, a monicker "JesusVoice" created a thread calling Hardmirror agent of Satan https://www.nairaland.com/3231162/hardmirror-must-agent-satan

Honourhim opened this thread too as a response to Hardmirror https://www.nairaland.com/3363426/response-thread-pastor-atheist-hardmirror

there are many more threads but I can't be bothered enough to start looking for everyone of them

I however have noticed Christians call him a liar on other threads even when discussing something different, call him agent of Satan, say he's never a pastor and he's making everything up at every opportunity

I decided to do a shallow investigation by using "cross examination" to see if he is in fact a liar like they claim, I never noticed anything to straight up call a lie in that thread of his (Maybe I missed a few things)

this made me ignore offhand comments of Christians subsequently calling him a liar which is what Hardmirror himself usually do too

However, Hardmirror and a certain Naijadeyhia slugged it out on a particular thread which caught my attention below is how the convo went

naijadeyhia:



Give me one reason why I should believe you when you are well known to be a [b]chronic liar.[b] Give me just one good reason.

HardMirror:

Can u point to just one single lie I have told here? And your evidence that it's a lie. Thank you as I await ur full cooperation in this investigation of hardmirror's lies

naijadeyhia:


Would a liar admit to his lies or he would just concoct another lie to validate the existing one. I know your games so will not indulge you thereby derailing this thread. I know what I know about you and am watching you closely....sleep with that.

Everyone on NL including its owner knows I am not the kind of believer who minces words. I am a straight shooter.

HardMirror:

Oga! Simple question give me simple direct answers. Where are the lies told by hardmirror? You just said I am a chronic liar so pointing to at least 20 lies shld not be a problem, but all I am asking for is just one lie and your evidence that it is a lie. Geez!

naijadeyhia:



Go and face a wall or something. Here you were telling the OP to make the mad man his friend and then ask him for winning numbers to your habitual betting acts but here you told a fictional story of a similar occurrence you had but you never thought of making your own character a friend and asking him for bettinf odds.

Lying never looks good on anyone but for you its a smash hit.

Why did you not make your own story character a friend and get him to give you betting oddd afterall you were well into gambling long before August.

Pants on fire....what are the first words?

HardMirror:

So where is the lie? I still don't see it. Lol
And did I not state that all the man did was just guess my home town, no purpose nothing and since I am not superstitious I had no need to make give him any attention, I don't get impressed easily. Let the op go ahead and make his millions.
You said I am well known as a liar, point to one lie, yet you are struggling. Does't that make you that liar?

naijadeyhia:


struggling? did you just say struggling? I laugh in atheism (if such a laughter exists)

where did the OP even remotely mention he is a gambling man such as yu have habitually become? Here I am talking sensibly and there you are dwelling on the OP using the mad man to make His millions...Why dont you cavort with the next mad man you see and use him to make your millions since your mibd is so fixated on usingmad men to make millions via betting odds yet your own opportunity you laughed it off as coincidence yet still advocating mad money to the OP.

I have told you before and I repeat...you are pathetic!

HardMirror:

Are you through?
How does all these story prove that I am a chronic liar? U said I am a chronic liar, show me just one lie and your evidence. Simple. Not all these stories

naijadeyhia:


And you think I would indulge you when its already an establish truth here on NL?

Jesus asked his followers who people think he is and who they also think he is.. I suggest you open a seperate thread and not derail this and ask for an opinion from Nairalanders here in the religion section who they think you are. That way you would get an aggregate assessment and not deny my words.

HardMirror:

I see why I shld not take you serious now. This is like the fourth time I am replying you here and yet you have failed to point out my "chronic lies" you conclude by saying it is an "established truth" who established the "truth" where are the lies? You are trying to evade my question by giving the excuse that you don't want to derail this thread (as if you care). Where are the lies and the evidences that they are lies?

naijadeyhia:


Unlike you i do care about the truths in this thread as I am not as close minded as you are and would not want to be your pawn towards the derailing of such an honest innocent truthful thread. So do yourself a favour and don't take my accusations seriously if thag would help you but do go a step further by asking nairalanders via a separate thread who they think you are. When done with the survey you can tag me.

HardMirror:

Hehehehehe
This man sha.
Who made you the judge of truths and lies on nairaland? Lol
I guess you were there with the op when the mad man called him by his full names and you are yet to point to a single lie I ever told here, don't forget the evidences too o

it appears he and his other Christians seem to have proof of his lying but are reluctant to say it, perhaps the proof isn't concrete enough OR they don't want to expose Hardmirror OR they have nothing on him but keep repeating that he's a liar to make themselves believe it

this made me challenge Naijadeyhia on another thread to give us the proof of Hardmirror's lies

he said I should open a thread to discuss his lies which is the purpose of this thread

these accusations of Hardmirror lying need to be trashed once and for all so that people would not be swayed by that thread if its a lie as Christians claim

Christians should therefore prove that Hardmirror is lying


CC: Naijadeyhia, Damogul, 4evergod, Hardmirror, Anas09, Analice107, Felixomor, Muafrika2 KingEbuka and anyone who can prove he's lying

where are our christian FBI's na?

What was the real reason why the hardmirror dude converted to atheism?
Been trying the find the particular quote he stated it, because of the so many inbetween quotes.

that is the tactics of most Christians infact most religions: avoiding the arguments, beating around the bush, claiming to know yet can't validate and questioning the morality of anyone who question them, they believe they have the right to be believed
just as seen above.

oluwaseyi000:


that is the tactics of most Christians infact most religions: avoiding the arguments, beating around the bush, claiming to know yet can't validate and questioning the morality of anyone who question them, they believe they have the right to be believed
just as seen above.

My dear the motive matters A LOT, because it would help us determine if the story is a lie, or its true, if the accounts are exaggerated is misinterpreted or they are honestly articulated. By mere knowing the intention of writer we can then accurately examine the contents. Since he didn't provide us with enough evidence other than accurate dates and descriptions of certains landmarks and persons.

paulGrundy:


My dear the motive matters A LOT, because it would help us determine if the story is a lie, or its true, if the accounts are exaggerated is misinterpreted or they are honestly articulated. By mere knowing the intention of writer we can then accurately examine the contents. Since he didn't provide us with enough evidence other than accurate dates and descriptions of certains landmarks and persons.

You have enough to work with. Infact more than enough

That naijadey guy has serious issues

authhor=hopefulLandlord post=51239292] Hardmirror created the thread https://www.nairaland.com/3078223/pastor-atheist-why-never-christian on April 30 2016 which details his journey from being a pastor who performed miracles to atheism and right now has a total of 43,624 Views

Young man stop trying to make a case on the affirmative for that fraud of a fella.



As there is no serious minded Christian that has a living relationship with God that will ever take that guy serious; as the op of that thread is riddled with so many spurious claims, inconsistencies and even theological blunders.



I certainly do not have the time and energy to engage myself in the tedium of going through that thread that is presently 50+ pages to pinpoint his many lies.



So hopefulLandlord, just be rest assured that, that thread of his was specifically desinged to rattle and unsettle "baby" and unserious Christians.



If you are in doubt about my position then check out @ the bolded. This is a fella that claimed to have performed miracles when he was a Christian, yet he cannot tell us the miracles he performed. What do you call such a person? A liar and fraud.



So creating this thread to insinuate that Christians called him a liar without being able to show him to be one is totally incorrect.



If you feel i'm the one lying, then please kindly supply us with the miracles that he purportedly performed from his claims in that thread. Or better still, you can give him the grand honour to do that.



On a final note i will reitirate my previous stance in that thread, and it is this - hardmirror was a young Christian, who wasn't grounded in God's word. And in his zeal for God, he stumbled over stuffs that the average Christian stumbles over himself, gets up and dust himself because he or she has the word of God in them and are humble and obedient and they trust the LORD to come through for them in such trying period and He does without fail in his own time and manner.



But in hardmirror's case, instead of humbly trusting in the LORD, by reaching out in faith to Him, he became proud and conceited, wanting to challenge God's authority by applying banal LOGIC, that is eternally doomed to fail and kept wallowing in that place of defeat that finally marked to be the beginning of the end in his journey with God. What a pathetic place to find yourself in.



Let me stop here biko, there is so much to be said but of what use is it.



@ HopefulLandord, if you will heed my advice, i'll counsel you cool down for God you creator. Atheism is an INTELLECTUAL FRAUD.

nynbrada:




Young man stop trying to make a case on the affirmative for that fraud of a fella.



As there is no serious minded Christian that has a living relationship with God that will ever take that guy serious; as the op of that thread is riddled with so many spurious claims, inconsistencies and even theological blunders.



I certainly do not have the time and energy to engage myself in the tedium of going through that thread that is presently 50+ pages to pinpoint his many lies.



So hopefulLandlord, just be rest assured that, that thread of his was specifically desinged to rattle and unsettle "baby" and unserious Christians.



If you are in doubt about my position then check out @ the bolded. This is a fella that claimed to have performed miracles when he was a Christian, yet he cannot tell us the miracles he performed. What do you call such a person? A liar and fraud.



So creating this thread to insinuate that Christians called him a liar without being able to show him to be one is totally incorrect.



If you feel i'm the one lying, then please kindly supply us with the miracles that he purportedly performed from his claims in that thread. Or better still, you can give him the grand honour to do that.



On a final note i will reitirate my previous stance in that thread, and it is this - hardmirror was a young Christian, who wasn't grounded in God's word. And in his zeal for God, he stumbled over stuffs that the average Christian stumbles over himself, gets up and dust himself because he or she has the word of God them and are humble and obedient and they trust the LORD to come through for them in such trying period and He does without fail in his own time and manner.



But in hardmirror's case, instead of humbly trusting in the LORD, by reaching out in faith to Him, he became proud and conceited, wanting to challenge God's authority by applying banal LOGIC, that is eternally doomed to fail and kept wallowing in that place of defeat that finally marked to be the beginning of the end in his journey with God. What a pathetic place to find yourself in.



Let me stop here biko, there is so much to be said but of what use is it.



@ HopefulLandord, if you will heed my advice, i'll counsel you cool down for God you creator. Atheism is an INTELLECTUAL FRAUD.

It's amazing how u easily understood what exactly made d guy an atheist... Is it that u are so perceptive?? Oh wait... It was the Holy- Spirit...
U Christians just keep embarrassing yourselves

HardMirror:

You have enough to work with. Infact more than enough

Ok. Not that I doubt your description of events, your interpretation of certain accounts of your autobiography, is what is wrong. Am not sure if you are exxagerating them, or downplaying them due to your current stance. That's why I am particularly curious as to why you converted.

But then if you have enough facts to back your claim, why not affix them to your account of events here in nairaland?

paulGrundy:


Ok. Not that I doubt your description of events, your interpretation of certain accounts of your autobiography, is what is wrong. Am not sure if you are exxagerating them, or downplaying them due to your current stance. That's why I am particularly curious as to why you converted.

But then if you have enough facts to back your claim, why not affix them to your account of events here in nairaland?

let me help your curiosity: he converted because he believe religion is an hoax, God do not exist and all religions are simply based on psychology.

don't you do comprehension in English language

now can you pls point out his lies

oluwaseyi000:


let me help your curiosity: he converted because he believe religion is an hoax, God do not exist and all religions are simply based on psychology.

don't you do comprehension in English language

now can you pls point out his lies

So he just woke up one day and realized Religion is a hoax? What prompted him to change his mind?

Besides he did not come up with enough facts to corrobate most of his claims. Other than mere descriptions. That's my problem, his personal accounts given by himself may have been delibrately exxaggerated or miscontrued in such that it makes it seem like God does not exist.

strangely enough he didn't divulge the details of how, where and what precisely prompted his conversion

E.g an account he gave somewhere in one of his threads that he healed a dumb little girl and took her to a crusade where an evangelist healed her, and she could mutter a few words and everyone was amazed including the girls mother who was very excited (can't remember which particular thread). Latter on in that thread, he claimed that no healing took place, that she had been able to say those words that way before she was "healed".

It seemed strange that the mother of the girl who was healed, who knows her daughther very well, was excited about her healing and he him-self claimed nothing happened. I guess he is saying that because he has presently changed his stance and no longer believed in those things he ones upheld.

All the spiritual activities he said he once partook in were fake. Therefore he never performed any spiritual activity successfully. Even speaking in tongues, I wonder how real it was to him.

In other words, everything that made him brag he was once an outstanding Christian, he faked them since they all turned out not to be real.

Let's conclude maybe, just maybe he is annoyed with God because he realized he doesn't have the gift of performing miracles.

Hardmirror

I don't know the little God gave you that you couldn't maximize it and you couldn't endure enough to get to another level.

You're angry because you needed powers to elevate your status but you were denied that. Now you're blackmailing those with the gifts, who it took them years of endurance, patience, and hunger for more of God to get to that level. Some got it easily though.

I remembered a story I read about a prophetess. She could tell what and what is wrong with someone or what will happen to them tomorrow. At a point in time, she wasn't satisfied with that level anymore. She needed more power.

So she prayed to God to give her the gift of performing miracles but she felt God wasn't answering her or God was too slow.

Then in anger, she told God that the devil is better than him because He gives his children anything they want instantly. It was like she said she prefer to be a child of the devil because he gives such gifts instantly. She renounced Christ from there.

I don't know how that story ended but I remember it was said that the Spirit of God left her immediately.

That's the story you just remind me of.

I'm sure you know Heb 6:4-6. And you understand it better than me. I pray you are given grace over that scripture.

It's amazing how christians here have subverted the topic of the thread; which was to point out the Lies they claimed HardMirror was saying; to a cross psychological profile assessment of his "true" motives.
The most pathetic was that of nybrada. After raising so much mouth that he had evidence of HardMirror telling lies; he's beating around the bush like an illegal poacher; saying the thread is too long for him to find proof.

The Bleep

Why claim you have proof and then deliver a long winded sermon; what do you hope to acheive

HardMirror, I hope you run back to God because as it is you are being hunted by the devil since departing from Christ. The devil will act swiftly to ensure that you never get the chance to repent from your sins.

I don't know why God is so real to some of us but others find it very difficult to have that conviction of His reality which ultimately leads to the HardMirror case.

As such I am reminded of Rick Joyner's book, The Quest. A must read for every believer in Christ.

skeendyke:
HardMirror, I hope you run back to God because as it is you are being hunted by the devil since departing from Christ. The devil will act swiftly to ensure that you never get the chance to repent from your sins.

I don't know why God is so real to some of us but others find it very difficult to have that conviction of His reality which ultimately leads to the HardMirror case.

As such I am reminded of Rick Joyner's book, The Quest. A must read for every believer in Christ.

Bros, abeg this thread is created so that people who noticed lies in Hardmirror's thread can tell us

this thread isn't meant for preaching to Hardmirror

hopefulLandlord:



Bros, abeg this thread is created so that people who noticed lies in Hardmirror's thread can tell us

this thread isn't meant for preaching to Hardmirror

Of course, sorry for that. Can't help it.

skeendyke:
HardMirror, I hope you run back to God because as it is you are being hunted by the devil since departing from Christ. The devil will act swiftly to ensure that you never get the chance to repent from your sins.

I don't know why God is so real to some of us but others find it very difficult to have that conviction of His reality which ultimately leads to the HardMirror case.

As such I am reminded of Rick Joyner's book, The Quest. A must read for every believer in Christ.

You just reminded me of that book, The Final Quest. It is a great book. After reading that book, I felt I wasn't in this world anymore. I saw things almost completely through the eyes of Jesus. I felt so not part of this world to the extent my body couldn't take it anymore.

Anything or anybody I see made me think deeply even to the point of tears. I wonder how God cope with such feelings by having all of us, whether dead, alive, in hell or not just before His gaze, under His watch.

My physical body couldn't bear that feeling. I wouldn't have survived carrying such burden, it was just too much. I had to come down from that level so I can easily fulfill my purpose here. It wasn't easy seeing things close to the exact way God sees them. It's just too much for our mind and body.

Have you read the other parts of the book: the call, the torch and the sword.

It's been a very long time I read them. I need to do that again.

bennyann:


You just reminded me of that book, The Final Quest. It is a great book. After reading that book, I felt I wasn't in this world anymore. I saw things almost completely through the eyes of Jesus. I felt so not part of this world to the extent my body couldn't take it anymore.

Anything or anybody I see made me think deeply even to the point of tears. I wonder how God cope with such feelings by having all of us, whether dead, alive, in hell or not just before His gaze, under His watch.

My physical body couldn't bear that feeling. I wouldn't have survived carrying such burden, it was just too much. I had to come down from that level so I can easily fulfill my purpose here. It wasn't easy seeing things close to the exact way God sees them. It's just too much for our mind and body.

Have you read the other parts of the book: the call, the torch and the sword.


It's been a very long time I read them. I need to do that again.

Wow. You are the first person I will meet in this forum who has read the book. It is spiritually edifying to say the least. I owe most of my deep knowledge in my Christian walk to that book.

Yes, seeing things, judging things only through the eyes of God is one of the great lessons I learnt from the book. Like you said, it is a great book.

Yeah, read all of them. Also read The Harvest by the same author. You will always have something to take from each of them. I have read each one at least twice but when I feel the need again I won't hesitate to read them all over.

Lol. I hope these unsmiling peeps do not have our heads for derailing their thread.

bennyann:
All the spiritual activities he said he once partook in were fake. Therefore he never performed any spiritual activity successfully. Even speaking in tongues, I wonder how real it was to him.

In other words, everything that made him brag he was once an outstanding Christian, he faked them since they all turned out not to be real.

Let's conclude maybe, just maybe he is annoyed with God because he realized he doesn't have the gift of performing miracles.

Hardmirror

I don't know the little God gave you that you couldn't maximize it and you couldn't endure enough to get to another level.

You're angry because you needed powers to elevate your status but you were denied that. Now you're blackmailing those with the gifts, who it took them years of endurance, patience, and hunger for more of God to get to that level. Some got it easily though.

I remembered a story I read about a prophetess. She could tell what and what is wrong with someone or what will happen to them tomorrow. At a point in time, she wasn't satisfied with that level anymore. She needed more power.

So she prayed to God to give her the gift of performing miracles but she felt God wasn't answering her or God was too slow.

Then in anger, she told God that the devil is better than him because He gives his children anything they want instantly. It was like she said she prefer to be a child of the devil because he gives such gifts instantly. She renounced Christ from there.

I don't know how that story ended but I remember it was said that the Spirit of God left her immediately.

That's the story you just remind me of.

I'm sure you know Heb 6:4-6. And you understand it better than me. I pray you are given grace over that scripture.

He may not even be whom he claimed to have been. He may have been a mere cell leader, not even a pastor. On the internet anything is possible people can assume a different identity.

I think the title of his threads should be:
-Memoirs of a disgruntled theist

@hopefulLandlord May God Almighty granted you Your own House, if you like no say amen, an you sabi.
Wetin we dey talk sef, Ok

See what I challenge the guy with and himself cannot debunk it.
How can a so called evangelist heal a dumb boy, an will not test him with random word, to confirm the boy actually spoke. The simplest word such as Jesus is as close as skin to any christian. I guess he had written the script and concluded how he is going to present it, hence he forgot that audience read btw lines as well. I did not trouble myself reading further when I discovered the lie.

I wanted to reply him then but just ignore him.

ONE OF YOUR LIES

HardMirror:

THE DUMB BOY WHO SPOKE! Hallelujah!!!
Fast forward 5 or 6 years latter, here I was with this brother in a village, with a dumb boy. We were there to invite people for the crusade that would be holding that evening. The boy was alone at home and he indicated to us that he could not speak. I remembered how jesus sent his disciples two by two into the towns and villages to preach and how they came back with testimonies of the mighty works of God.
The Holy Spirit was using that to speak to me. I asked my partner if he also felt convinced that the boy would speak if we prayed for him.

So we laid hands on him and commanded his tongue loose.

Instantly This boy began to speak!
Hallelujah!!!
What!
The Dumb boy spoke!!!!

We knelt and praised God!

We were so modest we did not even tell anyone. We just left we were sure the parents would run to the crusade to testify that their son has started speaking.

You Claim to have healed a dumb boy, and you never confirm if the boy did actually spoke, only heard sound babababa, who on earth doesnt know a deaf has a peculiar sound they produced each time they tried to speak.

You did not confirm the boy by asking him to pronounce random but simple word like Alleluya, Jesus, only baba-baba and you admit you have healed a dumb. No Evangelist will be so STUPID not not asked a dump boy who spoke to pronounce simple word as JESUS

For the first time I started reading your stories, this is one of your lies, and that made me stop reading, I would have busted more if I had continue

I think Nairaland mod owe The Christian Community Apology for pushing a false and defaming story to FP

Even in the first Place the Thread suppose to be in Diary seeing the nature of the story being a perssonal life story

Another evidence that he is not and had being a pastor is the use of F-Word, even oga Peun who is not a pastor will not use such.

I challenge him to... but can debunk it

There is no there true pastor turn atheist who will lost his humility and decorum, the lifestyle will still be there. Go and read the life of Billy Graham and Charles Templeton. Charles Templeton; it was said of Him that he "was going to overturn the world with the Gospel" but unfortunately, he turned atheist.

Throughout his life, he never spoke loosely to his Christian friend Billy Graham.

He claimed to have being head of State Chapter of whatever association, Leaders are known for good word but this brokenMirror has not

Abeg I go continue, I wan finish my pouridge before Esau comes in

skeendyke:

Of course, sorry for that. Can't help it.

no, you can help it, you only don't have any lie to point out

GoodMuyis:
Another evidence that he is not and had being a pastor is the use of F-Word, even oga Peun who is not a pastor will not use such.

I challenge him to... but can debunk it


Throughout his life, he never spoke loosely to his Christian friend Billy Graham.

He claimed to have being head of State Chapter of whatever association, Leaders are known for good word but this brokenMirror has not

have you ever confronted him with using this words and he denied it? if not, where is the lie in hard mirror post. if he use it after dumping religion then you can't hold him down with it afterall he is an adult.

Pls don't derail this thread

oluwaseyi000:

have you ever confronted him with using this words and he denied it? if not, where is the lie in hard mirror post. if he use it after dumping religion then you can't hold him down with it afterall he is an adult.

Pls don't derail this thread

For you eye now you have, you have posted a defence, go back a read again, then called him to come an defend himself

This is my only question as this would make or break his case.

He mentioned that a particular brother in the fellowship died from complications that came from fasting...A nairalander who also finished in 2010 from his school asked for the persons name since he did not hear of such a case and Hardmirror did not respond.

NOW I ASK THE SAME QUESTION. WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE BROTHER WHO DIED VIA FASTING RELATED ISSUES? WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO CAN CONFIRM THIS.

If he cannot provide this name and we affirm it happened then we have our conclusion.

cc HardMirror, hopefullandlord

damogul:

NOW I ASK THE SAME QUESTION. WHAT IS THR NAME OF THR BROTHER WHO DIED VIA FASTING RELATED ISSUES? WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO CAN CONFIRM THIS.

GBAMEST!!!!

TIRI GBOSA, Expose the lie, Shame the Devil

damogul:
This is my only question as this would make or break his case.

He mentioned that a particular brother in the fellowship died from complications that came from fasting...A nairalander who also finished in 2010 from his school asked for the persons name since he did not hear of such a case and Hardmirror did not respond.

NOW I ASK THE SAME QUESTION. WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE BROTHER WHO DIED VIA FASTING RELATED ISSUES? WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO CAN CONFIRM THIS.

If he cannot provide this name and we affirm it happened then we have our conclusion.

cc HardMirror, hopefullandlord

Finally! After how many posts; the first ATTEMPT.

HardMirror; do come when you're free.

---

On the other hand; this can be a ploy to track down HardMirror.
The person could have been close to hardmirror. HardMirror might; in his erstwhile days; have prayed and rolled on the ground and what not for the "brother" to be healed.

Or in the very least; it might pinpoint Hardmirror's former fellowship....



I appauld the deviousness!!!

SirWere:


Finally! After how many posts; the first ATTEMPT.

HardMirror; do come when you're free.

---

On the other hand; this can be a ploy to track down HardMirror.
The person could have been close to hardmirror. HardMirror might; in his erstwhile days; have prayed and rolled on the ground and what not for the "brother" to be healed.

Or in the very least; it might pinpoint Hardmirror's former fellowship....



I appauld the deviousness!!!

Damogul does not deserve any answer from me cos he is not the one that asked the question. He labeled me a liar long ago and I don't take him serious, here he is hanging on the fantastic question someone else with common sense (which damogul lacks) is asking. So it is only the guy that asked this good question that I wld answer