Tudór:

Not like I give a damn what you think but there are MANY reasons I chose atheism.

All Right. Let's hear you out. Can you set out the reasons, i would be really interested in knowing.

Thanks.

Only God would deliver him.

I am almost certain that Oyedepo's debauchery of Christianity and his immoral life style contributed to driving Tudor towards Atheism. Personal i don't think think Tudor does not believe in the exisitence of God, he is just rebelling against relgion hence his declaration of being an atheist.

And what EXACTLY would this thread acheive? This would be a waste of my precious time.

Anybody who's intrested in my "treatise" (what the f**k does that mean?) can read all my previous posts made with this I.D and my numerous other banned i.d's. I've stated my reasons one time or the other.

There's no food for lazy man. . .you must work for your salvation.

@Tudor

i weep for u!

ETERNITY BECKONS ON U!REPENT TODAY AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL!!!

KunleOshob:

I am almost certain that Oyedepo's debauchery of Christianity and his immoral life style contributed to driving Tudor towards Atheism. Personal i don't think think Tudor does not believe in the exisitence of God, he is just rebelling against relgion hence his declaration of being an atheist.

oyedepo's lifestyle is not an excuse for satanism or atheism. will tudor be judged based on the inactions of oyedepo?. . .Nope.

Tudór:

And what EXACTLY would this thread acheive? This would be a waste of my precious time.

Anybody who's intrested in my "treatise" (what the f**k does that mean?) can read all my previous posts made with this I.D and my numerous other banned i.d's. I've stated my reasons one time or the other.

There's no food for lazy man. . .you must work for your salvation.

Please indulge us. Going through all your old posts would be difficlut for any one especially because the topics are diverse.

I intend absolutely no arguments AT ALL, i just want to be informed on your perspective. You may just give us the core essentials of your reasons.

Thanks.

Core eh?

1. Nobody has ever provided conclusive proof for the existence of God.

2. I found out the universe doesn't a god to exist.

3. After years of being a christian and trying wholeheartedly to experience god I never for once felt anything.

4. I'll never accept another man's idea of god coz as far as am concerned all thought out ideas are what they are THOUGHTS and they bizzarely fall in-line with the expectations and needs of such an individual. If am going to believe in a god then personal encounter should do it. But that ain't gonna happen, We all know how shy and timid the gods are, don't we?

5. The realities of life don't in anyway show there's a god out there. . .
6. I've done everything from visiting herbalists/occultists to spending a night near an eerie stream and a cemetary all to investigate this idea of magic or supernatural yet not once did I find positive proof.

Then. . . . . . .

Tudór:

Core eh?

1. Nobody has ever provided conclusive proof for the existence of God.

2. I found out the universe doesn't a god to exist.

3. After years of being a christian and trying wholeheartedly to experience god I never for once felt anything.

4. I'll never accept another man's idea of god coz as far as am concerned all thought out ideas are what they are THOUGHTS and they bizzarely fall in-line with the expectations and needs of such an individual. If am going to believe in a god then personal encounter should do it. But that ain't gonna happen, We all know how shy and timid the gods are, don't we?

5. The realities of life don't in anyway show there's a god out there. . .
6. I've done everything from visiting herbalists/occultists to spending a night near an eerie stream and a cemetary all to investigate this idea of magic or supernatural yet not once did I find positive proof.

Then. . . . . . .

Tudor are you serious ? you went to do JUJU for money or what ,ah man you are wired ,

Tudór:

Core eh?

1. Nobody has ever provided conclusive proof for the existence of God.

why do u find the proffered proofs unacceptable?. . , and by conclusive, what do u mean?

2. I found out the universe doesn't a god to exist.

I am very very very interested in how u came about this conclusion. . . .cos from the same universe I see, there are abundant reasons why this universe not only needs a God, but would also not have been without one.

I cannot fathom or imagine the concept of a "beginning" for this universe without a creator. I would like to think that the universe as we see it today has a starting point. . .and this was kick started by someone more intelligent. I have no reason to believe that this process that kick-started the universe was a random occurrence. It is in lieu of this that ur detailed analysis would be appreciated.

3. After years of being a christian and trying wholeheartedly to experience god I never for once felt anything.

really? perhaps we need to understand what u mean by "experience". do u mean miracles? speaking in tongues? seeing visions? gifts of the spirit? or what exactly was it u anted to experience about God.

I asked the above question simply because, I believe that ur response would help unearth ur primordial understanding and subsequent expectation of/from God.

4. I'll never accept another man's idea of god coz as far as am concerned all thought out ideas are what they are THOUGHTS and they bizzarely fall in-line with the expectations and needs of such an individual. If am going to believe in a god then personal encounter should do it. But that ain't gonna happen, We all know how shy and timid the gods are, don't we?

This is completely dishonest.

yet u accept another man's unprovable fallacy called evolution

5. The realities of life don't in anyway show there's a god out there. . .
6. I've done everything from visiting herbalists/occultists to spending a night near an eerie stream and a cemetary all to investigate this idea of magic or supernatural yet not once did I find positive proof.

Then. . . . . . .

I hate to say this. . .but u have confirmed my fears. u were seeking for a solution to a problem, which was nihilant. . .that way u chose to put ur bitterness on God.
there is hardly any logic in atheistic beliefs.

Well, u guys should get one thing straight. A person says there is no God and he spends a lot of time posting stuffs in the religion section of a forum.

IMO deeply,he thinks there is God. He only needs better and more rational explanation than what he was used to.

If he really thinks there is no God, then he will never bother wasting his time on anything affiliated to religion.

VALIDATOR:

Well, u guys should get one thing straight. A person says there is no God and he spends a lot of time posting stuffs in the religion section of a forum.

IMO deeply,he thinks there is God. He only needs better and more rational explanation than what he was used to.

If he really thinks there is no God, then he will never bother wasting his time on anything affiliated to religion.

You summarised my own thots too. Of course expect the usual noise from the anti-God brigade.

Let me set something straight, I slept overnight in a cemetary and stream when I was in boarding school. It was a combination of a dare and I personally wanted to experience the "supernatural".

Since I was in a mission school we had several guys and girls who during holy ghost/miracle service fessed up to be mermaids or witches (some of them while convulsing).They always claimed to be having meetings at night at the cemetary not too far from school or the stream right around the vicinity and anyone who encounters them would be dead.

Due to my skepticism (which I let every damn soul know) I was dared to go spend a night in each place. . .This I did and found nothing extra ordinary. Several years down the line I'm still alive.

My curiosity also took me to some self styled occultic group. . . I just found out they like all religions are a bunch of jokers who use fear as their main tool of enslavement. There I was also threatened with death if I leave. I did leave and beat up high priest too. I'm still kicking

Tudór:

Let me set something straight, I slept overnight in a cemetary and stream when I was in boarding school. It was a combination of a dare and I personally wanted to experience the "supernatural".

Since I was in a mission school we had several guys and girls who during holy ghost/miracle service fessed up to be mermaids or witches (some of them while convulsing).They always claimed to be having meetings at night at the cemetary not too far from school or the stream right around the vicinity and anyone who encounters them would be dead.

Due to my skepticism (which I let every damn soul know) I was dared to go spend a night in each place. . .This I did and found nothing extra ordinary. Several years down the line I'm still alive.

My curiosity also took me to some self styled occultic group. . . I just found out they like all religions are a bunch of jokers who use fear as their main tool of enslavement. There I was also threatened with death if I leave. I did leave and beat up high priest too. I'm still kicking

and here was i thinking he had something serious to tell us.

Tudór:

Let me set something straight, I slept overnight in a cemetary and stream when I was in boarding school. It was a combination of a dare and I personally wanted to experience the "supernatural".

Since I was in a mission school we had several guys and girls who during holy ghost/miracle service fessed up to be mermaids or witches (some of them while convulsing).They always claimed to be having meetings at night at the cemetary not too far from school or the stream right around the vicinity and anyone who encounters them would be dead.

Due to my skepticism (which I let every damn soul know) I was dared to go spend a night in each place. . .This I did and found nothing extra ordinary. Several years down the line I'm still alive.

My curiosity also took me to some self styled occultic group. . . I just found out they like all religions are a bunch of jokers who use fear as their main tool of enslavement. There I was also threatened with death if I leave. I did leave and beat up high priest too. I'm still kicking

lol you have the time to entertain these folks. what does this occultic group believe in

Ever since I was little (and till today) she keeps feeding me this mumbo jumbo about how God abi na jesus revealed to her the afternoon i was born, I'll be a great servant of God and other shit like that. . .several times I told her it was the anti-pain morphine that caused the hallucinations. To her it will be a fulfilment of the that divine vision.

Perhaps that's why Tudor is an atheist.

Tudór:

Let me set something straight, I slept overnight in a cemetary and stream when I was in boarding school. It was a combination of a dare and I personally wanted to experience the "supernatural".

Since I was in a mission school we had several guys and girls who during holy ghost/miracle service fessed up to be mermaids or witches (some of them while convulsing).They always claimed to be having meetings at night at the cemetary not too far from school or the stream right around the vicinity and anyone who encounters them would be dead.

Due to my skepticism (which I let every damn soul know) I was dared to go spend a night in each place. . .This I did and found nothing extra ordinary. Several years down the line I'm still alive.

My curiosity also took me to some self styled occultic group. . . I just found out they like all religions are a bunch of jokers who use fear as their main tool of enslavement. There I was also threatened with death if I leave. I did leave and beat up high priest too. I'm still kicking

I see absolutely nothing wrong in your approach. You are sincerely searching for rational answers to what people claim to know but don't know.

aletheia:

Ever since I was little (and till today) she keeps feeding me this mumbo jumbo about how God abi na jesus revealed to her the afternoon i was born, I'll be a great servant of God and other shit like that. . .several times I told her it was the anti-pain morphine that caused the hallucinations. To her it will be a fulfilment of the that divine vision.

Perhaps that's why Tudor is an atheist.

Yey, this guy is a genius. . .somebody please notify the Nobel Commitee in Sweden.

So Tudor - It's safe to say that you are driven by a rejection of myth and superstition, yes?

So Tudor - It's safe to say that you are driven by a rejection of myth and superstition, yes?

That is what drives every atheist.

Deep Sight:

So Tudor - It's safe to say that you are driven by a rejection of myth and superstition, yes?

Atheists:


That is what drives every atheist.

Many of us can't settle for myths but I don't think atheism is the solution. However, if a person becomes an atheist with a mind of searching out the truth,then so be it.

Is an atheist really searching for the truth, or just satisfied with being anti-religions and their gods(with valid reasons,ofcourse)?To limit one's search for truth to the realms of the 5 senses is to be searching for the truth in a very tiny box.

VALIDATOR:

Many of us can't settle for myths but I don't think atheism is the solution. However, if a person becomes an atheist with a mind of searching out the truth,then so be it.

VALIDATOR:

Well, u guys should get one thing straight. A person says there is no God and he spends a lot of time posting stuffs in the religion section of a forum.

This assumption is question begging, and flawed for so many reasons, Why debate about what doesn't exist you say, So if someone is prancing around claiming the characters from Lord of the rings all exist and influence the world we live in, you think another shouldn't pull them aside and correct them? Most especially if they use it to hate others around them. Look at the NL religious section. Moslems using their beliefs to castigate Christians, Christians using their beliefs to castigate moslems. Christians against atheist, atheist against Christians, Atheist against moslems and vice-versa.

IMO deeply,he thinks there is God. He only needs better and more rational explanation than what he was used to.

I KNOW that all the gods talked about by man made religions are not true, I just want to know why people believe in such stories and go around calling others names when they have no evidence of what they are all talking about, Its not even about lack of evidence, the problem is the proponents of the god hypothesis are yet to come together and agree on what this thing called god is, I assume you are a christian, Hope you know that Christians do not even agree on the basic nature of who their god is.

If he really thinks there is no God, then he will never bother wasting his time on anything affiliated to religion.

Why bother with any thing affiliated with religion you say? I return the question to any Christian who debates on the moslem section of NL or any evolutionist site on the internet. If you don't believe in evolution, or if you believe that Islam is false then why go there? I imagine your reasons will be similar to my own.

toneyb:

This assumption is question begging, and flawed for so many reasons, Why debate about what doesn't exist you say, So if someone is prancing around claiming the characters from Lord of the rings all exist and influence the world we live in, you think another shouldn't pull them aside and correct them? Most especially if they use it to hate others around them. Look at the NL religious section. Moslems suing their beliefs to castigate Christians, Christians using their beliefs to castigate moslems. Christians against atheist, atheist against Christians, Atheist against moslems and vice-versa.

I KNOW that all the gods talked about by man made religions are not true, I just want to know why people believe in such stories and go around calling others names when they have no evidence of what they are all talking about, Its not even about lack of evidence the problem is the proponents of the god hypothesis are yet to come together and agree on what this thing called god is, I assume you are a christian, Hope you know that Christians do not even agree on the basic nature of who their god is.
Why bother with any thing affiliated with religion you say? I return the question to any Christian who debates on an the moslem section or any evolutionist site on the internet. If you don't believe in evolution, or if you believe that Islam is false then why go there? I imagine your reasons will be similar to my own.

The bold part in your post is the reason why there is so much hatred in the world. Every faction thinks only he knows the truth. He makes every frantic effort to correct tell others how stupid they are without seeing the flaws in his own faith.

VALIDATOR:

The bold part in your post is the reason why there is so much hatred in the world. Every faction thinks only he knows the truth. He makes every frantic effort to correct tell others how stupid they are without seeing the flaws in his own faith.

Yes I agree with you to an extent but the problem is the victim card you guys love to display all the time when your beliefs are put under the radar. You asked why debate a god that doesn't exits at all and I said that is the more reason why it should be debated. People choose to live their lives and try to influence the lives of others around them based on their beliefs and that is a fact. If every body will just hold unto his beliefs without trying to force it on others I don't think there will be any atheist on any of these boards.

Deep Sight:

So Tudor - It's safe to say that you are driven by a rejection of myth and superstition, yes?

Atheists:


That is what drives every atheist.

Should a Rejection of Myths and Superstitition lead any one to look around at the world and universe around him and conclude that it needed no cause or creative agent, to exist? Surely these are two distinct and unrelated issues? If the atheist believes that the gods of religion are myths only: that should only drive him more desperately to find, define and articulate what factors caused the universe to exist?

Deep Sight:

Should a Rejection of Myths and Superstitition lead any one to look around at the world and universe around him and conclude that it needed no cause or creative agent, to exist? Surely these are two distinct and unrelated issues? If the atheist believes that the gods of religion are myths only: that should only drive him more desperately to find, define and articulate what factors caused the universe to exist?

Did the universe truly began to exist? Scientist talk about the universe beginning to expand at the beginning of the big bang they I don't think they said that it began to exist did they?

From wikipedia

The term Big Bang generally refers[b] to the idea that the Universe has expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past (currently estimated to have been approximately 13.7 billion years ago, and continues to expand to this day[/b].

No where does it talk about a beginning it only talks about expansion from an already existing body. What if the universe is eternal and keeps on changing from one form to another?

ToneyB -

This is what i wrote on this on another thread currently running -

To understand this, i think we should return to the philosophical question of necessary things and contingent things. Basically necessary things are things which self-exist - things which could not NOT exist. Contingent things basically are not inherently self existent: or put better - require a cause to exist.

For a simple example, let me cite these: Time is a necessary thing. Time is something that cannot NOT exist. Time is. Now without getting into the dynamics of whether or not space and time were created at the moment of the "big bang" let me just say this - i refer here to infinite time, and not finite time.

Infinite time is basically eternity. Eternity is not something that needs to be created. It quite simply is - a constancy of continuous infinity of time. It is thus a necessary and not contingent thing, and is self-existent, and needn’t be created. It is intangible, and can be referred to as a flat state of reality.

Now let’s look at another example. Let’s look, for instance (just to give a wild-example) at my Sony Bravia Flat Screen Tv. This is by no means a necessary or self-existent thing: It is a contingent thing, and even if you came upon it in the furthest reaches of the universe, you would conclude that it required a cause to exist.

Now although I know there are hairs to be split on this: let me say that the principal thing to note is that necessary things are by nature intangible, whereas contingent things are tangible. Think of every conceivable self-existent thing: eternity is self existent: and per force intangible. Numbers are also self-existent – and per force intangible.

If you think about it, you may see that anything that is self-existent, cannot also be tangible or material. One pointer to this fact is that self-existent things, being necessary and uncreated, are not capable of change. Matter, on the other hand, changes constantly and this betrays the fact that it is not a necessary or self-existent thing and accordingly: required a cause, or causative/ creative agent.

I honestly hope that this has given some perspective as to why I do not, and will never regard material things or matter, as being self-existent.

This may also be useful in understanding God as simply the compound of all self-existent laws or realities.

Tony - You didn't say anything on the above. . .

Deep Sight:

Tony - You didn't say anything on the above. . .

Sorry I left yesterday and didn't see your reply. I have no problem with the first cause agrument at all. I just do not believe it is any of the gods of all the man made religions. Their creation accounts are there for all to read. As some have pointd out before the universe as it is makes all the gods of man made religion to look insignificant.

^^^ That's cool.

davidylan:

and here was i thinking he had something serious to tell us.

Would you like me to mail you my diary?