Hi fellow Naira landers, especially those on the religious page. this goes to abuzola, a vibrant fellow that enjoys spitting venom on the christian faith. I would love to have a talk with you on this thread.

I only beg that you be objective and reasonable. In as much as I do not agree with your views, I do understand and respect them.

now , How you doing?

the Name is Nelson. a Christian working class male adult

MR NEL:

I only beg that you be objective and reasonable. In as much as I do not agree with your views, I do understand and respect them.

Abuzola will talk to you alright but i cant guarantee objectivity.

You are welcome

Thanks, I have seen but not read some of your comments on this section. it appears you have a lot of righteous indignation against the christian faith and the personhood of Jesus Christ, The Trinity and a host of other stuffs.

I would like to ask; is it that you are trying to understand, are you seeking, or you plain bashing at Christianity

if it is plain bashing, why?

abuzola has lost interest . . . . .hez only interested in paedophilia, jihad and suicide bombing. . . .anything more is a waste of time.

Mr Nelson,
Objectivity is synonymous with rationality and that is something that is scarce in any organized religion. Religion is about faith. Faith in some myths/contradictions/half truths.

That's why Abuzola will not join your team. You want him to dissmiss his own myths and adopt yours?

VALIDATOR:

Mr Nelson,
Objectivity is synonymous with rationality and that is something that is scarce in any organized religion. Religion is about faith. Faith in some myths/contradictions/half truths.

That's why Abuzola will not join your team. You want him to dissmiss his own myths and adopt yours?

I always find it quite amusing when religious folks demand objectivity in religious debates.Ofcourse, objectivity to them simply means seeing things their way only.Very amusing indeed.

Bashing and spreading the truth. Why bashing ? Coz they do the same for islam infact 10 fold of it

@mr nel,its simply"if u touch me i touch you,fight  me i fight you"

uplawal:

@mr nel,its simply"if u toch me i touch you,fight me i fight you"

Exactly what Islam is all about. The question now is. Are there any sane muslims?

@tinu-tayo,dnt mind the foolish ayusman,asking if there are sane muslims,maybe she wants muslims to be mumus

ayusman16:

Exactly what Islam is all about. The question now is. Are there any sane muslims?

damn hypocrite

Abuzola hasn't answered my questions

I must add that the Christian Faith is not contrary to reason. it doesn't disregard the mind.
below is an article I wrote earlier on face book

FAITH AND REASON

When talking about the things of God do we all drop our thinking caps? Should we all? Any good student of the Christian or other religious world view would tell you that there are many questions he/she cannot answer. And that they are better left at that e.g. someone (an atheist) can ask; since you believe in God, what was He doing before He created heaven and earth? My answer; I do not know !

In as much as one does not have an answer to these questions and one cannot deny an inquirer his or her right to ask them, we all must know that it is not all in answering questions (which by the way is very important) but rather the provision of a body of coherent meaning found for everyday Life. Yet there is a great place for reasonable inquiry to faith. The Christian faith does demand inquiry and thought, in the words of C.S Lewis, “good philosophy must exist if only because bad philosophy exists”.

Again In the words of St Augustine “unless you have believed, you will not understand”. There is a lot to understand about the Christian faith but to understand these; you have to believe that certain things are true.

That is why reasonable arguments alone can never bring one to salvation rather it helps to expose false convictions and strengthens belief. Though one might counter that it is the spirit that provides such illumination, I must interject that for most of us who have received Christ, this illumination has already been provided, and it is for us to apply our minds to them (It is all in the word) .

REASON AND BLIND FAITH, THE DIFFERENCE AND THE DIFFERENCE IT MAKES

Blind faith; “this is the way it is, believe it or not”.
Reason; “you’ve believed Christ? Now let’s talk about it”.
Many of us are still to comprehend what Apostle Peter was speaking when He said; “Be Prepared to give an answer if anyone should ask you, the reason for the hope that is in you”.
Applying our mind will give us the much needed privilege to teach our inquisitive children. You’ll be surprised at the nature of the questions your kids will ask you; the reason for evil? Why did grandpa die? Where is he? Why should I believe in Jesus?

These questions cannot be answered by plain faith alone; faith is strengthened and made alive when one truly understands its immutability. That it is not vague, the reality of the spiritual component of man is as real, factual and scientific as the computer in front of you and it is even covered by a field of science. it is then intriguing when people “switch off” when issues of faith are mentioned.
E.g. on Naira Land, someone argued that God is just a mere psychological projection of men to fulfill their need for a God, a view originally propagated by Sigmund Freud (1856-1939).

Freud was an Austrian neurologist and the founder of psychoanalysis, a movement that popularized the theory that unconscious motives control much of human behavior. From this perspective, God is merely a creation of the human mind, a projection emanating from human need and desire rather than a distinct reality or being that exists independently of the human mind. Freud’s notion of God acting as an idealized father figure for humans, providing a cushion from the harshness of the real world and a comforting friend in the midst of life’s troubles, reduces God to a human construct. Indeed, for Freud, God is made in humanity’s own image and is the “ultimate wish-fulfillment”; God does not actually exist but is merely the creation of humanity’s imagination and desire for a loving father figure. What then should be the Christian response? Imagine if you met Freud at work, and he is willing to hear your view and the reason for your conviction as a Christian, what would you say? Shut up and believe? Like the initial question I mentioned on what God was doing before creation, a typically answer would be “preparing hell for such a questionnaire”!

But really, the most obvious point to make in response is that this Freudian argument about projection cuts both ways. After all, isn’t it equally possible to say that Freud and other atheists deny the existence of God out of a need to escape from a father figure, or to argue that the nonexistence of God springs from a deep seated desire for no father figure to exist? So the argument is not valid for sustaining the non existence of God. Freud himself in a letter to a friend wrote “The bad part of it, especially for me, lies in the fact that science of all things seems to demand the existence of a God”. He wrote that letter in 1913 and the situation has not changed.

So I wrote the questionnaire on Naira land asking him if he could explain why human beings all over the years have sought for this God, have built edifices and temples for different deities. Why the need at all? He replied that on deep meditation one gets to a point where there is no need for questions, he stuck to his conclusion that God still does not exist. I had to point out to him that in his passive state of meditation, he lacks a rationale to conclude that God does not exist, since he made no inquiry, why conclude. He is yet to answer that.

The truth is that the Christian faith welcomes seekers, it can stand an inquiry, science is yet to prove the inexistence of God yet evolution is propagated as if it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt, it is therefore pertinent that we apply our minds on these things and think because “Good philosophy must exist if for no other reason than that bad philosophy exists.” Reasoning doesn’t necessary imply complexity, the message of the cross is a fairly simple one and the simplest of men can convey it.

The human experience however is a very complex one and a lot of folks have a lot of theories on life. Reason is therefore needed to clear the “bush” around this simple message so that an honest inquirer can find Truth in the person of Christ. I have bowed my knees to Him and I have found in Him everything.

I believe that in all cases, a genuine seeker will find out that He is sought.

For more enquiry and references, visit www.rzim.org, you can check the resources and archives.
Thanks.

end.


My POINT IS THAT THE CHRISTIAN FAITH WELCOMES GENUINE SEEKERS AND THEIR QUESTIONS. THE TRUTH CAN BEAR SCRUTINY

some questions folks ask


Q: How can one explain the multiplicity of denominations, why is the Christian faith so disunited?
A: really we often try to misplace uniformity for unity. The aim of the Christian Gospel has never been Uniformity but rather Unity, different denominations may emphasize some teachings over others but the central theme for being a “Christian” is that one accepts Jesus as ones personal Lord and Savior.

Q; How can Christianity hope to fix the world when it does not have a definite code of conduct/Law :

A: Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it, He placed the law on a higher plane. I.e. instead of saying adultery is sleeping with someone else’s wife. He told us that lust in itself is adultery! He placed it on a higher plane. He also placed murder on a higher plane , e.g. to hate someone else is murder. He tells us that by ourselves we cannot fulfill the law. A lot of people have blamed the Christian Gospel as being so condemnatory, but in reality the condemnation merely points to the cross; “see, you are guilty but I have paid the price, Believe me” So Grace is telling us that we have been forgiven.

Q: If the gospel preaches grace, i.e. that God has forgiven us, why then would one go to hell for sinning or be referred to as a sinner by the church.

A: God is a perfect judge because he is the only one that is able to judge the heart of man (man’s intents and purpose). Someone who has accepted the lordship of Christ does not become automatically sin proof though he has received grace to overcome it (He grows in this), but with each occasion of Sin, He can boldly approach the throne of Grace for forgiveness. In instance when such a sin becomes predetermined and habitual, the perfect Judge does not allow His grace to be abused especially when knowledge is in place
ultimately no one will go to hell for sinning but rather for not accepting the forgiveness in Christ or for abusing the provided grace. Come to think of it, the thief on the cross did more evil than many in his day yet he made heaven
Focus; in Christ, we find the sealed and assured certainty of being forgiven. Who does not need forgiveness ?

Islam is all about forgiveness dear,

wait a minute, are u preaching to me or what ?

Abuzola 1:

Islam is all about forgiveness dear

So why have you refused to forgive the christians that have been 'bashing' your beliefs? Why retaliate?

Abuzola 1:

Islam is all about forgiveness dear,

wait a minute, are u preaching to me or what ?

uplawal:

@mr nel,its simply"if u touch me i touch you,fight me i fight you"

Confused religion, pls which one do we take? Abuzola said islam is all about forgiveness, while uplawal said is all about retaliet. Na waooooooo confusion every well.

noetic15:

abuzola has lost interest . . . . .hez only interested in paedophilia, jihad and suicide bombing. . . .anything more is a waste of time.
hahahaha u got it right.

MR NEL:

Abuzola hasn't answered my questions

Have u not being seeing his comments despite the questions u asked him? That means he will not ans ur questions. I know him too well, he doesn't ans questions rather he will use insult to it.

@AKO and beauty- the forgiveness has an extent, you can't fool people in the name of forgiving.
E.g u slap me and i forgave u, you slap me again and i forgave and you intend to slap me again and i retaliated

Abuzola 1:

@AKO and beauty- the forgiveness has an extent, you can't fool people in the name of forgiving.
E.g u slap me and i forgave u, you slap me again and i forgave and you intend to slap me again and i retaliated

I see

Is true dude,

Abuzola 1:

@AKO and beauty- the forgiveness has an extent, you can't fool people in the name of forgiving.
E.g u slap me and i forgave u, you slap me again and i forgave and you intend to slap me again and i retaliated

That means quran thought u guys retaliation after 3 times forgiveness? Is too bad. xtains are thought to 4give to a large extent that u can't sit and be counting.

@Beautymc,fool,how well do you know ABUZOLA,since you said "i know him too well",and what question has he not answered you?HYPOCRITE

uplawal:

@Beautymc,fool,how well do you know ABUZOLA,since you said "i know him too well",and what question has he not answered you?HYPOCRITE

Daugther of B.I.N.G.O, am not snatching him from u, so don't be scared. I don't know him outside nairaland and i can't b'cos he's so mannerless. Check all the threads, he doesn't ans questions. Lets prove ur stupidity, has he answered the one the poster asked him? B.I.T.C.H

Shut up there daughter of the jewish dead carpental god, i ve exposed ur plagarized bible to the extent that you and ur colleagues re frustrated. Lol


@uplawal- don't mind the ghost worshippers they will never believe till Allah pity them and open their eyes. Hahaha, a dead religion whose god was nailed and cried like goat when dying. Lmao

@ Abuzola,
I was making a point for reason and discussing my convictions. I would like to hear your problem with it.
thanks

all thier idolatory praise to the dead god,who cried when dying yeo,yeo yeo,egbamio babami onwo mi ni ran ni,its so bad that most of them died in this disbelief,after allah has warned them

Mrs Abuzolauplawal, go though the following with your mind open.

When the prophet was twenty-five years old, his uncle secured for him a position with a caravan owned by a
wealthy widow, Khadija. Thanks to Mohammed's keen business sense the caravan was highly successful, and
he was induced to personally report his success to Khadija. That lady, a wealthy widow of forty years, and the
mother of three children, was highly pleased at Mohammed's story. As she listened to the proof of his
business ability and fondly scanned his large, nobly formed head, his curling coal-black hair, his piercing
eyes, and his comely form, it naturally occurred to her that this vigorous and handsome young fellow would
make an excellent successor to her deceased husband. She had her way and they were married. During the
next fifteen years Mohammed led a tranquil life. His future was provided for and he had plenty of leisure to
occupy himself as he chose. In these years Mohammed and his wife continued to be conventional worshipers
of idols, who nightly performed rites in honor of various gods and goddesses, among whom were Allah and
his female consoler Al-Lat. And so, by the year 610, Mohammed, at the age of forty, was nothing more than a
respectable but unknown tradesman who had experienced no extraordinary crises, whose few existing
utterances were dull and insipid, and whose life seemed destined to remain as insignificant and unsung as any
other Arab's.
At this time, he began to retire for days at a time to a cave in the foothills of Mount Hira, a hill several miles
north of Mecca. Meanwhile his business languished. As the months passed, he still continued to act in the
same incomprehensible manner; it was noticed that little by little certain members of his immediate family
attended him to his refuge or gathered with him in some one of their houses. This continued for several years
CHAPTER III 26until it was rumored that Mohammed, the camel driver, was confidently claiming the honor of having made a
great discovery; namely, that "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is His Prophet."
By what process of thought had Mohammed come to exalt Allah not merely above all Arabian gods, but
above the gods of all times? Furthermore, why was he so certain of his own intimate association with Allah?
We can understand this if we consider Mohammed in the light of a victim of mental disease.
One account informs us that as Mohammed was wandering near the cave at Mount Hira, "an angel from the
sky cried to him, 'O Mohammed, I am Gabriel!'" He was terrified and hurried home to impart his experience
to his wife.
"I see a light," he said to his wife, "and I hear a sound. I fear that I am possessed." This idea was most
distressing to a pious man. He became pale, haggard; he wandered about on the hill near Mecca crying for
help to God. More than once he drew near the edge of the cliff and was tempted to hurl himself down, and so
put an end to his misery at once. He lived much in the open air, gazing on the stars, watching the dry ground
grow green beneath the gentle rain. He pondered also on the religious legends of the Jews, which he had heard
related on his journeys; and as he looked and thought, the darkness was dispelled, the clouds disappeared, and
the vision of God in solitary grandeur rose within his mind, and there came upon him an impulse to speak of
God. There came upon him a belief that he was a messenger of God sent on earth to restore the religion of
Abraham, which the pagan Arabs had polluted with idolatry, the Jews in corrupting their holy books. At the
same time he heard a Voice, and sometimes he felt a noise in his ears like the tinkling of bells or a low deep
hum, as if bees were swarming round his head.
At this period of his life the chapters of the Koran were delivered in throes of pain. The paroxysms were
preceded by depression of spirit, his face became clouded, his extremities turned cold, he shook like a man in
an ague, and he called for coverings. His face assumed an expression horrible to see, the vein between his
eyebrows became distended, his eyes were fixed, his head moved to and fro, as if he was conversing, and then
he gave forth the oracle or Sura.
The hitherto mentally and emotionally normal trader, husband, and father was thus suddenly swept off his feet
and carried irresistibly away on a mighty tide. His perturbed spirit now soared to the heights of Heaven, now
plunged into the chasms of hell. Moments of ethereal bliss would be followed by periods of profoundest
melancholy.
"It is related that the Angel Gabriel, who thus far had labored only in the field of Christian endeavor, was
chosen by Allah as bearer of the divine revelation to Mohammed. One day, while the trader-poet was
wrestling with his doubts among the foothills of Mount Hira, he saw a wondrous apparition floating
downward on celestial wings. 'Thou art God's Prophet, and I am Gabriel,' announced the awe-inspiring guest
before he departed to receive the blessing of Allah for having so successfully executed the heavenly
command. Gabriel was a very valuable ambassador, for through the to-and-fro journeying of this indefatigable
messenger Allah was able to remain at ease in heaven, thus keeping up the appearance of intangible, majestic
remoteness so necessary for dignified gods. And thus Mohammed came into his own. From that moment
Mohammed looked upon himself as Allah's vice regent, through whom Allah's incontestable decrees were to
be given to man." (Mohammed--R. F. Dibble.) Mohammed's every doubt had now vanished, his soul was
completely at ease, and from his lips there burst the wildly exultant chant, "There is no God but Allah and
Mohammed is His Prophet."
The obliging Gabriel, he said, had borne him on a winged steed over Medina to the Temple of Jerusalem, and
from there he continued his celestial journey until he was carried completely out of this world to those
ethereal realms of bliss where the Seven Heavens are. Up and up he flew, while he carefully noted the order of
precedence of those prophets whose model he had proclaimed himself to be. Jesus and John were in the
second or third--he was not quite sure which--Moses was in the sixth, while Abraham alone had the supreme
CHAPTER III 27distinction of residing in the Seventh Heaven. There, at the apex of indescribable glory, Mohammed had
entered the awful presence of his Maker, Who, after some chit-chat, charged him to see that all Moslems
should hereafter prostrate themselves in prayer toward the Temple of Solomon five times a day. The truth of
this narrative rests upon two solid facts: from that day to this, all devout Moslems have continued to bow
themselves five times daily in prayer, and sceptics may still see, upon the rock where stands the Mosque of
Omar in Jerusalem, the identical print of the Prophet's foot where he leaped upon the Heavenly Charger.
His thoughts, whether conceived in a white heat of frenzy, or with deliberate coolness and sly calculations for
the main chance, were probably not written down in any definite manner during his lifetime. It is not even
certain whether he could read or write. He delighted in the appellation, "The Illiterate Prophet," possibly on
account of his humility and possibly because he knew that inspired ignorance had been the indisputable
prerogative of all successful prophets in the past. Indeed, the very fact that he was unlearned was rightly
supposed to increase the miraculous nature of his revelations. As he tossed the divine emanations from his
lips, they were sometimes recorded by hireling scribes upon palm leaves, leather, stones, the shoulder blades
or ribs of camels and goats. But often they were not immediately written down at all; the Prophet would go
around spouting forth his utterances to his followers, who, trained from infancy to memorize verses and songs
of every sort with infallible precision, would piously commit them to memory. Such is the Koran, and through
its instrumentality, Allah the Wise, The Only Wise, revealed his immutable decrees: to the good, the rewards
of a Paradise that utterly beggared the Christian Heaven; to the bad, the punishments of a Hell that contained
an infinity of such refined tortures of heat, and even of cold as neither the most imaginatively gifted Jew or
Christian had yet conceived.


Extracted from NECESSITY OF ATHEISM by D.M Brooks.

what a prophet!

I am not one to cut off a man's nose before giving him a rose to smell. The Christian faith is based on precedents.
one of them is that Prophetic utterances did not contradict themselves.
infact Jesus fulfilled more than 300 prophecies written over centuries by more than 15 writers.
it is worth consideration

below is my note on Trinity and a case for salvation.

A proponent for Buddhism once said “it is all about brotherhood, we are to seek brotherhood” and He was right, the problem is that in the human experience there are more “hoods” than “brothers”. What is the source of this hoodishness? (That word is not in the dictionary!).

In earlier notes, I have explained that in studying every religious world view, it must be able to answer
the question of
Origin
Condition
Salvation and
Destiny
And the answers must cohere after that.

The Christian entry point is that God created man(Origin) and man sinned (explaining our condition) and God sent Jesus (the Son of God) to die for sinful man, anyone that accepts this salvation token in Christ receives eternal life (which is Life with God). Eternal life is more than just a physical place (which it is) but also includes the indwelling of God in the saved one.

That is the Christian world view, but how do I explain the trinity. This answer is for the seeker, it is noteworthy here to state that in Life there is a principle of cause and effect; Causality.

Someone said that the evolution of man from the big bang is like saying a Boeing 747 emerged from a junkyard after an explosion happened, when you look at the effect and the cause (an explosion). It doesn’t add up.

So it is with man, evolution can attempt to explain our unity, but it can’t explain our diversity. Man is essentially diverse; a male cannot exist without a female. (It takes both to be Human).

In humans, there is a diversity of feelings, of thirsts and affection. The satiety experienced in feeding the body is very different from that of the mind and spirit, the exhilaration of our sexuality cannot be compared with the spirituality of a worship experience. The tastiness of food and the blandness of water, all tell the tale of unity in diversity. Years ago Socrates’ students asked him of the essence of Life, he answered air, water, fire and air. They then asked for the unifying essence, the “quintessence” of life, the truth that unifies all truths.

To explain unity in diversity in the effect (i.e. us). There has to be unity in diversity in the first cause (Origin; God).

And the only system that has unity in diversity is in the Christian Faith, We find unity, diversity and community in the Trinity. How else can we say that God spoke or that God is Love, who was he speaking to, who was He loving?

Minus Trinity, we find a God that needed to create in order to speak or Love. So when God said “Let us create Man in our own image” we had the “first cause”.[b][/b]



In a world of diverging religious world views (Plurality) and consequently Personification (which says “make sure you keep your views at home”) a diligent seeker still needs to find coherence; what makes sense, the unity in diversity. The truth that unifies all truths and this is what University stands for “Unity” in “Diversity”.
Can all religious world views be right? Are they fundamentally the same? Are they all a quest by man to fulfill His need for a God?

I believe that there is a God, man has found it impossible to escape from Him, (I have made this point in my earlier notes in “An attempt at Meaning” and “Reason on Trial”) but another good question is; which God? I ask that question because two mutually exclusive opinions cannot be correct at the same time.

Two mutually exclusive religious world views cannot be correct at the same time.
None the less, as humans any good world view must provide the answer to

Origin: where am I from?
Condition: Who am I? And why do I do the things I do
Salvation: how can I be helped
Destiny: after here?

In my earlier notes I have written on why I know Jesus is the answer, one of those ways is in “the nature of salvation”.

Does man need Salvation and salvation from what? Of recent there was a very high profile discussion among elite circles on the topic “What does it mean to be Human”. It doesn’t take much imagination to fashion the course that discourse must have taken, the reality is that even people who are not intellectually inclined have agreed that man got a problem, implicit is the sentence that “the bent of man is towards evil”.

And man has from medieval times cried out for atonement. Long before Judaism, Christianity and Islam (the three major religions) man has made countless sacrifices on altars to appease “the gods”, apparently they weren’t.

The question is why? Why do we seek to be forgiven? Or better still is there anyone who does not need forgiveness? The sensation of Guilt and total unworthiness is the major cause of suicide and depression (antidepressants sale compete with that of coca cola), and you and I are witnesses to the length humans have gone to mask that emptiness.

What does God say about the condition of man? In the Torah and the Talmud (the Old Testament and Holy book of Judaism, God calls our condition “sin” and the penalty was death!)

To understand salvation one has to understand the nature of Sin. Sin is not the violation of God’s law per say, it is the violation of God himself (Who is described as being too Holy to behold iniquity). In the words of Max Lucado “God is not holy, He is not even Holy Holy, He is Holy Holy Holy” Holiness is the essence of His Godhood.

And man is sinful. In the same Old Testament we find the source of Sin; disobedience. Adam didn’t just disobey he violated God himself (that is why the punishment is death), but then man is Spirit.
the first man died a spiritual death , it is of then necessity that the restoration of man be Spiritual; a quickening of the dead spirit. It is then pertinent that we understand therefore why the blood of rams cannot take away sin, if so why then did God give the Law?

The Law was given so that man could see his need for salvation and to serve as a code of conduct. But it couldn’t make the person righteous. Well, only an ill patient seeks a doctor. And God said the illness (sin) is a life and death issue.

In Abraham, of whom the three major religions call Father, we see God declaring him righteous because He believed Him, Not because He performed certain rites. This was way before circumcision (a mark of the relationship that was borne out of His obedience). See Gen 15:6.

What we see in our society is a great malady called “Sin in the Heart of Man”. The multiplicity of religion, the despair of man and the resort to wantonness and deadening of conscience is as result of man’s interaction with the law which is written in our hearts. You and I know that our great great grand fathers without reading the Ten Commandments observe it to a very high extent.
Is there salvation?

Answer; God did not leave man alone in this dilemma, it is important to note that only God can initiate Man’s salvation, But God’s Justice must be satisfied also; someone must die for the sin of mankind and sinful man does not qualify.

When people wonder that how could Jesus, the Son of God as we claim in the Christian Faith come and die for Sinful humanity.

My answer is:
Could God (A Holy, Just and Loving God) do less to save His idea (Man)?

The silent question I believe in the heart of many is; what is the nature of God, does He? Could He have a son? What manner of Love is such?
Fortunately you can find that out for yourself; close your eyes in reverence to God and ask Him the very question; you can read the bible for yourself.
The seeker finds out He is sought.
Thanks

I think I am having a nice time here. We have two confused (clowns ) individual here, namely: ABUZOLA AND UPLAWAL. Let the fun continue pls.

stop fooling yourself