ikeadewole:

My fellow Yoruba Muslim let's give them facts and not insult them..Seems we were born m.d because oduduwa hit his head when they sent him away from heaven for beheading an angel and selling His head to Lucifer..

bad guy see how you just dey behead all this Afonja for this thread.

Bennin? extension of yoruba territory. tittle of your Paramount ruler attest to this. Better go to your Oba to give u the real history of your kingdom & linkage with largest single tribe in the country instead of this package of copy & paste story.

ikeadewole:
Cc:timemanager looking at this thread like..

You go that right rage and fury

afonjaheadhunt:
We often read from the Yoruba media about the Oyo empire and how widespread and powerful this empire was, but no documents, finding or evidence any where in the world suggest these claims to be true only Yoruba folklore by the Yoruba revisionist elders and academicians, who have tried to rewrite their history by editing the feats of their conquerors to be That of Yorubas, but simple research or finding put all this claim to a fail test and simply portrays the Yorubas as a tribe that have been conquered since time immemorial as a matter of fact Yoruba land was split amongst to great African Kingdoms, Benin Kingdom and Dahomey kingdom this two kingdoms had their boundaries in present day south west Nigeria and shared the spoils of war within those bounds.

While every tribe in Nigeria have accounts of brutal wars with colonialist and invaders The Yorubas on their own part never confronted any of their colonialist or invaders they never challenged the Portuguese that gave Eko its name Lagos, the never confronted the British colonialists, they never challenged the Benin invaders whom became overlord in Lagos, installed a king and made Lagos a proxy of Benin kingdom, the old Oyo empire was overrun and brought to its knees by Dahomey women whom took their men as slaves, made their women maids and their children servants, The Fulani's conquered them in Illorin and installed an Emir, they Yorubas were over run by the Tiv, Nupe in Kabba and other Yoruba towns. Yorubas were simply a walk over in the history of Africa and the struggles for civilization and ethnic survival.

Yorubas claim that the Oyo empire stretches to Benin kingdom on the east and stretches to Benin republic and Togo on the west, this is one of the biggest lies ever told in the history of mankind, Africa and Nigeria as a nation. To be fair to history the reverse was actually the case. We all know that oduduwa who the Yorubas claim they are descendent from was actually a Benin prince whom went west to expand the Benin empire, the Yorubas on seeing the awe that came with the arrival and presence of Oduduwa the Benin prince pledge loyalty and support to him and rallied around him in Ile Ife which also became a Benin proxy like Lagos whom the Benins overruled. What the Yorubas refer to as Oyo empire was simply a administrative province for Benin Kingdom and Dahomey Kingdom being the center of both great empires.

On the western part it is common knowledge that the Dahomey women who from the Benin/Togo axis Present day Togo, moved and conquered eastward from the present day Togo to the present day Oyo state in south west Nigeria. Many parts of Yoruba land still speak a very corrupted version of the language of the Dahomey female warriors from Benin/Togo axis, Today you still find some Yoruba slave settlement in Benin/Togo the Yoruba slaves have been integrated in their society with coming of the white man, Slave trade and civilization. The Yorubas in Benin/Togo were slaves and spoils of war to Dahomey Kingdom, the Yorubas in Togo are ancestral descendants of Yorubas in present day south west Yoruba land in Nigeria. The relationship between the Yorubas and Benin/Togo is nothing short of a conqueror and conquered relationship or slave master relationship.

South west was divided and ruled by two great kingdoms. Benin Kingdom ruled to the west in Ile Ife axis down to Lagos, while present day Togo republic ruled to the East stretching all the way to Ibadan and Oyo present day Oyo state, Nigeria. However with the coming of the British to Nigeria Yorubas were wise to buy into the media and developed the media industry not just in Nigeria but west Africa at large and they used the media to rewrite and revisit history. However they can only deform those who are not versed to access informations as the Benin/Togo and Benin kingdom still have their very documented history which have been corroborated by the British, Portuguese, French missionaries and colonialist. Yoruba history on the other hand are simply revisions and revised history of the Benin/Togo and Benin Kingdoms history.

The fact that Yoruba history says they are descendants of Oduduwa whom they claim fell from the sky, when in truth he was actually a Benin prince on an expansionist journey, this gives credence to the fact that Yorubas have no record of their history and the one they take pride in is simply a fallacious mirage.

NOTE: This post was summarized so Nairalanders can read to the end, some accounts, excerpts, dates and events have been removed to keep it short. You can do some research to get more information or get in touch for the full context therein.

CC:
donratcock, thuggcheetah, zz22, generalachuzia, ikeadewole, Stephleena, obdk, proudlyafonja adadike281 iskander2 DIDDIDDIEOMENKA, UGOMBA, CHERUV, investinowerri uduak2016

I guess the Anglo-Ijebu war doesn't count as resisting colonialism by you. Even outside of home soil, Yoruba resisted colonial powers. In Brazilian history books, Yoruba were involved in the Great Bahia revolt and the Male revolt, which today still remains the largest slave revolt in Brazil. If Oyo was under Dahomey as you claimed, why did Oyo conquered Dahomey in 1748 during the Oyo-Dahomey wars. Dahomey was paying tributes to Oyo and would later resort to different war tactics to free itself from Oyo's control. While Oyo's boundary encompasses 4 African countries including modern day Nigeria, Dahomey's boundary did not extend an inch beyond modern day Benin republic.

Oyo empire's influence cannot be underestimated. Oyo empire stretches to Benin Republic, Togo and Ghana. Yoruba people founded cities, establishing their political hegemony and encompassing other ethnic groups. Porto-Novo, the second largest city in Benin republic was founded by Yoruba. In Togo, Yoruba founded Atakpame and Kpalime on the Ghanaian border. The Oyo empire encompassed many Gbe-speaking people such as Ewe of Togo and Ghana who claim that they came from Ketu, another Yoruba city. The Ga-Adangme people as far as Accra, Ghana claimed that their origin is Oyo. The ooni, not too long ago made a visit to Ghana, were the Ga-Adangme chiefs pledge and reinforce their ties to Yoruba people. Oyo was an imperial force to be reckoned with. Deal with it.

As for Benin, Oyo empire and Benin empire fought a number of wars, but both were unable to subdue each other. And you should know, Oyo empire isn't synonymous with Yoruba. Although it was a major central power, not all Yoruba people were under Oyo, and back then there were numerous Yoruba states that were very powerful. Even the Easternmost Yoruba state, Ogho which literally sits on the door Of Benin was never captured by the Benin even though they tried multiple times. After the mutual cultural exchange that took place between the two over a number of centuries, Ogho people till today were able to hold on and maintain their identity to Ife and not Benin. Even with their proximity to the imperial power of Benin, they were able to maintain their "Yorubaness" unlike many other ethnic groups around the region today who tie their origin to Benin. That right there is another example of resilience of Yoruba culture.

We didn't rewrite our history, NEVER! We've always maintained our origin to Ife, that's the bond that tie all Yoruba together no matter how distinct we've come to be. And lo and behold, this oral tradition is supported by scientists who would later found the oldest cultural artifacts from Ile-Ife. The history of Yoruba is extensive and its echoes are heard all over the world.

Keep trying...

9jakool:
.

Mr. did you even read the post and comprehend before you start spitting out rage and fury driven by emotional pain and anger, The post cleary stated resistance from external aggressors and not resistance from yoruba agressors except you want to agree with me now that the ijebus are not yorubas then i do agree with you that the Ijebu resisted attacks from other yorubas.

It was not only the yoruba's that were smuggled to Brazil, Cuba, Jamaica etc, so that cannot be tagged yoruba resistance, in fact no historical account ever mentioned any yoruba resistance. The only Slave resistance event that mentioned a Nigerian tribed was the "Igbo Landing" were Igbos jumped into the sea to their death rather than be slaves to the white man.

Also your claim of Oyo conquering Dahomey Kingdom is indeed fallacy it is one of those yoruba revised history by yoruba scholars, no other publication outside yorubaland supports those claims. Provide me with source outside University of Ibadan and OAU, that say yorubaland defeated Dahomey kingdom, but i can provide you with endless sources from world libraries and journals for Dahomey Kingdom colonizing yorubaland.

You did not rewrite your history? how do you explain Oduduwa falling from the Sky in this age, does that not tell you that a lot of things were not adding up and yoruba scholars had to make that up to cover all the flaws in their revised history, also tell us who gave the account of Odudwa falling from the shy are this not oral accounts? Nothing adds up, but when you follow the right way to determine origin by tracing ancestry then it becomes clear that the yorubas are truly descendants of the Benin people some with Dahomey Ancestry. the size of your people should not be mistaken or determinant factor for origin.

Please do your research before posting and stop being overly emotional on this issue.

afonjaheadhunt:
Mr. did you even read the post and comprehend before you start spitting out rage and fury driven by emotional pain and anger, The post cleary stated resistance from external aggressors and not resistance from yoruba agressors except you want to agree with me now that the ijebus are not yorubas then i do agree with you that the Ijebu resisted attacks from other yorubas.

It was not only the yoruba's that were smuggled to Brazil, Cuba, Jamaica etc, so that cannot be tagged yoruba resistance, in fact no historical account ever mentioned any yoruba resistance. The only Slave resistance event that mentioned a Nigerian tribed was the "Igbo Landing" were Igbos jumped into the sea to their death rather than be slaves to the white man.

Also your claim of Oyo conquering Dahomey Kingdom is indeed fallacy it is one of those yoruba revised history by yoruba scholars, no other publication outside yorubaland supports those claims. Provide me with source outside University of Ibadan and OAU, that say yorubaland defeated Dahomey kingdom, but i can provide you with endless sources from world libraries and journals for Dahomey Kingdom colonizing yorubaland.

You did not rewrite your history? how do you explain Oduduwa falling from the Sky in this age, does that not tell you that a lot of things were not adding up and yoruba scholars had to make that up to cover all the flaws in their revised history, also tell us who gave the account of Odudwa falling from the shy are this not oral accounts? Nothing adds up, but when you follow the right way to determine origin by tracing ancestry then it becomes clear that the yorubas are truly descendants of the Benin people some with Dahomey Ancestry. the size of your people should not be mistaken or determinant factor for origin.

Please do your research before posting and stop being overly emotional on this issue.

You are not to be taking serious! Please study hard and comprehend before delving into issue beyond your intellectual capability.

nisai:
You are not to be taking serious! Please study hard and comprehend before delving into issue beyond your intellectual capability.

you are bereft of any sensible or logical argument because the facts presented here are true, that is why you could not counter the claim instead you come here sobbing like your brothers before you.

Afonja Ntor

nisai:
You are not to be taking serious! Please study hard and comprehend before delving into issue beyond your intellectual capability.

I don't get why people are even indulging the foool to start with. Flat heads have no history to be proud of, so their obsession with our history is understandable. Their forebears never attempted any worthy exploits, let alone recorded any. These are people that ordinarily should bury their heads in shame and curse their lazy and worthless ancestors for not bequiting a glorious history worth compiling or bragging about, hence their preoccupation with the history of their better neighbours. If it ain't Benin then it's Yoruba history they're obsessing over. Even for the troll that he is, he's too insignificant and worthless to even engage. Shior.

ikeadewole:
Cc:Afonjaheadhunt be ready they are getting ready to type on the keyboard like .

You can't even come up with a meme of your own. You had to scroll through my posts to steal memes. You even stole my comment

Ekpa!!

And why is this clown creating useless threads all over the place thinking he's insulting his daddy

Ode who get time to dey follow you do nonsense for here. Jam us on the FP. Your chit isn't touching anyone here

You go create thread dey follow yourself talk, report with your adewole moniker, and dash yourself likes with your yorubamuslims moniker yet you want make we engage you

At this point, y'all Ipob thugs need to start paying me to even jump on your threads

I'm doing you a favor

Jetleeee:


You can't even come up with a meme of your own. You had to scroll through my posts to steal memes. You even stole my comment

Ekpa!!

My fellow Yoruba Muslim awfar...I miss you ooo[left][/left]

AshiwajuFoward:


I don't get why people are even indulging the foool to start with. Flat heads have no history to be proud of, so their obsession with our history is understandable. Their forebears never attempted any worthy exploits, let alone recorded any. These are people that ordinarily should bury their heads in shame and curse their lazy and worthless ancestors for not bequiting a glorious history worth compiling or bragging about, hence their preoccupation with the history of their better neighbours. If it ain't Benin then it's Yoruba history they're obsessing over. Even for the troll that he is, he's too insignificant and worthless to even engage. Shior.

yorubas have no history, that is a proven fact, the fact that what you call Yoruba history cannot stand alone without the mention of Benin history which clearly predates Yorubas shows that Yoruba history is flawed.

...and you guys should stop crying all over this thread provide facts to disprove it so I can embarrass you guys to stupor with verifiable evidence and let the whole nairaland see you guys for what you really are.... lairs from the pit of hell

Stop feeding the younger generations with lies just because your Otta uncle removed history from schools afonjas and lies be like Oduduwa and fallen demon

Afonja ntor

Jetleeee:
And why is this clown creating useless threads all over the place thinking he's insulting his daddy

Ode who get time to dey follow you do nonsense for here. Jam us on the FP. Your chit isn't touching anyone here

You go create thread dey follow yourself talk, report with your adewole moniker, and dash yourself likes with your yorubamuslims moniker yet you want make dem engage you

At this point, y'all Ipob thugs need to start paying me to even jump on your threads

I'm doing you a favor

Afonja epp us beg uncle Seunn to move this thread to FP so the younger generations can learn the truth

Is it this small thread that is making you cry, if I post the one I am editing now, you will hang your self oo.

Afonja ntor

ikeadewole:

My fellow Yoruba Muslim awfar...I miss you ooo[left][/left]

your brother no just happy this thread dey give am HBP, him dey find how him go do make dem delete am

afonjaheadhunt:
your brother no just happy this thread dey give am HBP, him dey find how him go do make dem delete am

You're just a worthless and jobless troll

stubornnn:


You're just a worthless and jobless troll

i reject am back to sender, so you that is a gainfully employed non trolling young man what's your contribution to the topic.

Abi you will also disappoint like the rest of your brothers.

Afonja ntor

hehehe.......



Funny

hehehe.......



Funny

afonjaheadhunt:
I know you have sleepless nights over Yoruba rich history and culture.

Like you challenged I will provide you with sources from westerners

First source: Britannica encyclopedia

Oyo empire, Yoruba state north of Lagos, in present-day southwestern Nigeria, that dominated, during its apogee (1650–1750), most of the states between the Volta River in the west and the Niger River in the east. It was the most important and authoritative of all the early Yoruba principalities

https://www.britannica.com/place/Oyo-empire

Second source: Frobenius Institute Germany


http://www.frobenius-institut.de/sammlungen-und-archive/ethnographisches-bildarchiv/42-das-institut/119-nigeria-100-years-ago


Third Source: Reasearch in African Literatures, African and Afro-American Studies and Research Center
Author: Judith Gleason


The two greatest warriors in the time of Shango was Timi Olofa Ina and Gbonka Ebiri. By this time, Oyo have emerged to be the administrative capital of the Oduduwa dynasty. He had the priest he put in charge of Ife ( Son of Owuoni, the woman that should have been used for a sacrifice but spared because she was with child) to oversee the affairs of the kingdom while he built a new kingdom at Oyo. This is one reason why Ife was the spiritual capital of Oyo and Benin empires for centuries. In both kingdoms, the Ooni of Ife must send certain regalia of office at the installation of a new monarch for them to be legitimate.

Do you want more sources? There are hundreds of first hand account of westerners that came to Yoruba land in 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. Your argument has been faulted by providing absolute no source to support your humongous lies and fabrications. Just like you do, I can sit down and write something more terrible about your tribe if I have the time. Funny enough, you wrote that epistle and challenge people to provide source for a counter opinion, but you didn't provide one single source. Boy free your mind from hate
I will urge people that really care about history of different tribes of Nigeria to check out Nigeria Nostalgia project pre-Nigeria discussion forum on Facebook. There you will meet alot of Nigerians and Nigeria descendants based all over the world exchanging knowledge.
@OP I challenge you to put this your trash in that forum

slurryeye:

I would have taken you seriously if you did not edit my post which you quoted, but going through the links you provided it appears you dint even read it before trying to use it to disprove my claims cause your links simply corroborate my claims and assertions maybe i should just use it as my source since you need source to something that is common knowledge.

When you put my initial quote I will take you serious.

afonjaheadhunt:
Mr. did you even read the post and comprehend before you start spitting out rage and fury driven by emotional pain and anger, The post cleary stated resistance from external aggressors and not resistance from yoruba agressors except you want to agree with me now that the ijebus are not yorubas then i do agree with you that the Ijebu resisted attacks from other yorubas.

It was not only the yoruba's that were smuggled to Brazil, Cuba, Jamaica etc, so that cannot be tagged yoruba resistance, in fact no historical account ever mentioned any yoruba resistance. The only Slave resistance event that mentioned a Nigerian tribed was the "Igbo Landing" were Igbos jumped into the sea to their death rather than be slaves to the white man.

Also your claim of Oyo conquering Dahomey Kingdom is indeed fallacy it is one of those yoruba revised history by yoruba scholars, no other publication outside yorubaland supports those claims. Provide me with source outside University of Ibadan and OAU, that say yorubaland defeated Dahomey kingdom, but i can provide you with endless sources from world libraries and journals for Dahomey Kingdom colonizing yorubaland.

You did not rewrite your history? how do you explain Oduduwa falling from the Sky in this age, does that not tell you that a lot of things were not adding up and yoruba scholars had to make that up to cover all the flaws in their revised history, also tell us who gave the account of Odudwa falling from the shy are this not oral accounts? Nothing adds up, but when you follow the right way to determine origin by tracing ancestry then it becomes clear that the yorubas are truly descendants of the Benin people some with Dahomey Ancestry. the size of your people should not be mistaken or determinant factor for origin.

Please do your research before posting and stop being overly emotional on this issue.

You think I'm offended by what you posted? No, I'm just amused. I'm even more amused after you claimed that Ijebu are not Yoruba.

Yes, it's an obvious fact that Yoruba are not the only one exported to the Americas, that's why I specifically mentioned Brazil, particularly the Bahia region. Till today, Yoruba culture is the dominant African culture in Brazil from cuisine to language to art to religion. Whether you like it or not, the Male revolt in Brazil was carried out by Yoruba people and it's the most significant slave revolt against colonial forces in Brazil's history. Male was the name given to Yoruba people in Brazil at the time and it also has an historic meaning and context in Yoruba. You do know that Male is a Yoruba word right?

In regards to Oyo relationship with Dahomey, let me introduce you to Francisco de Souza, a notorious slave trader of the time. He was sent by Dahomey king to negotiate peace with Oyo, after Oyo threatened to attack them if they didn't pay a tribute requested by the Alaafin. See, even a foreigner recognized the relationship between Oyo and Dahomey. Or are you going to claim that De Souza was Yoruba scholar right? Dahomey paid tribute to Oyo for about a century until 1824 when they regained full independence. Due to the socio-political influence of Oyo and Yoruba, the Fon of Dahomey, and many related groups adopted some aspects of Yoruba culture. They partake in the renowned gelede masquerade and ifa. They've even adopted many Yoruba deities into their Vodun religion like ogun.

You know the story of Oduduwa is referred as mythology and a legend in history books for a reason, right? Even the ancient Greek had their own mythology and creation story. You lost me when you say that Yorubas are descendant from Benin and Dahomey. Why can't you respect individual sovereignty of each ethnic group. Edo, Fon and Yoruba are from three seperate language branches. You should know by now that Ife settlement and art predates Benin and Dahomey by centuries, it's fact. Archaeology suggests that Ife was settled as far back as 4th century BCE. The oldest human remain in all of West Africa dating back as far back as 13,000 years is found in Yorubaland at a site close to Ife. Every ethnic group has their own uniqueness that should be respected.

It's obvious that you share a deep resentment for Yoruba people which is exposed in your bigotry. It is quite amusing to me that you spend so much effort trying to dismiss history to fit your narrative.

Strike 2
Keep trying...

afonjaheadhunt:
I would have taken you seriously if you did not edit my post which you quoted, but going through the links you provided it appears you dint even read it before trying to use it to disprove my claims cause your links simply corroborate my claims and assertions maybe i should just use it as my source since you need source to something that is common knowledge.

When you put my initial quote I will take you serious.

Why should I put your initial quote that is like 10 pages long? That is very unnecessary. Just show how my links corroborates your fabrications that Old oyo empire was a proxy to Dahomey and Benin.
You see, I like pre-colonial African history, and I take pride in finding out that there were kingdoms, Empires and Cities in sub-sahara Africa before the white came to plunder it.
But one of the most difficult thing for historians about sub saharan empires is lack of written records. However, the existence of the empires can be substantiated by oral traditions, archeological evidences, attestation by someone from another empire or region and existing culture and tradition of the old empire

Now to your terrible fabrications.
When it comes to oral tradition about Old oyo empire, not only there are consistency in the narrative of Old oyo empire descendants, there are hundreds of books and first hand accounts out there written by the first set of westerners to contact the indigenous people of Oyo (I can provide copies if you want).

When it comes to archeological evidences, there are tonnes of evidences that showed that Oyo was a very influential empire in pre-colonial 15th to 19th century west africa. Another important evidence was the discovery of art works that suggest the region must have been a big settlement of people in a kingdom or empire. Don't let us forget the account of different westerners that saw Oyo army and Calvary (I believe you know what calvaries are, and how it depict civilization).
https://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/old_oyo.htm
https://www.jstor.org/stable/25130772?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Find attached below some of the ruins and archeological findings of old Oyo empire

Attestation by someone from another empire: Ahmed baba of Songhai empire(I'm sure you don't even know who that is) in his book in the 16th century wrote about Old oyo empire. If Old oyo wasn't an empire, I doubt how Ahmed baba living thousands of miles away could know of the place.

Culture and tradition: up till date, the culture and tradition of Old oyo is being practised by the descendants of the empire. So much so that, the culture was carried across the atlantic and practised in over 7 countries in the new world including Cuba, Brazil, Jamaica, Colombia, USA etc. This single fact defected your lie and insultive fabrication because if Oyo was a proxy to either Dahomey or Benin, the tradition and culture of both places will be infused in the lifes of descendants of Oyo and not the other way round.

Like I said earlier, your post is made up of lies and fabrication filled with hatred you have for Yoruba. It is based on absolute no evidence or source. If I have the time and know your tribe, I can write something 100 times more terrible things.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h28af3-4.htm

http://www.afropedea.org/oyo-empire

http://www.africabib.org/rec.php?RID=190927143

https://africa.si.edu/exhibits/ipi/yoruba.htm

9jakool:

You think I'm offended by what you posted? No, I'm just amused. I'm even more amused after you claimed that Ijebu are not Yoruba.

Yes, it's an obvious fact that Yoruba are not the only one exported to the Americas, that's why I specifically mentioned Brazil, particularly the Bahia region. Till today, Yoruba culture is the dominant African culture in Brazil from cuisine to language to art to religion. Whether you like it or not, the Male revolt in Brazil was carried out by Yoruba people and it's the most significant slave revolt against colonial forces in Brazil's history. Male was the name given to Yoruba people in Brazil at the time and it also has an historic meaning and context in Yoruba. You do know that Male is a Yoruba word right?

In regards to Oyo relationship with Dahomey, let me introduce you to Francisco de Souza, a notorious slave trader of the time. He was sent by Dahomey king to negotiate peace with Oyo, after Oyo threatened to attack them if they didn't pay a tribute requested by the Alaafin. See, even a foreigner recognized the relationship between Oyo and Dahomey. Or are you going to claim that De Souza was Yoruba scholar right? Dahomey paid tribute to Oyo for about a century until 1824 when they regained full independence. Due to the socio-political influence of Oyo and Yoruba, the Fon of Dahomey, and many related groups adopted some aspects of Yoruba culture. They partake in the renowned gelede masquerade and ifa. They've even adopted many Yoruba deities into their Vodun religion like ogun.

You know the story of Oduduwa is referred as mythology and a legend in history books for a reason, right? Even the ancient Greek had their own mythology and creation story. You lost me when you say that Yorubas are descendant from Benin and Dahomey. Why can't you respect individual sovereignty of each ethnic group. Edo, Fon and Yoruba are from three seperate language branches. You should know by now that Ife settlement and art predates Benin and Dahomey by centuries, it's fact. Archaeology suggests that Ife was settled as far back as 4th century BCE. The oldest human remain in all of West Africa dating back as far back as 13,000 years is found in Yorubaland at a site close to Ife. Every ethnic group has their own uniqueness that should be respected.

It's obvious that you share a deep resentment for Yoruba people which is exposed in your bigotry. It is quite amusing to me that you spend so much effort trying to dismiss history to fit your narrative.

Strike 2
Keep trying...

Why would I expect you to be angered by my post, in fact I am happy with your arguments because amongst all your brothers whom have commented so far on this thread only you have done the honorable thing by trying to disprove these facts, so my brother no I do not intend to anger you with my post, but I must confess I am rather impressed by your arguements very interesting point of view and angle you are coming from but there are still too many loops that cannot be ignored.

Why are you still insisting on calling the Brazilian slave revolt a Yoruba one, the white during the slavery era never only exclusively shipped one set of people to any country as they usually sort for slaves from many coastline territories and bought slaves from there, while it could be correct to say they were significant Yoruba slaves in Brazil that does not rule out the fact that other ethnicities were there as well and we can't even say the Yoruba population was more than the other ethnicities independently or put together.

However we all know that the Yorubas are know to maintain and uphold their culture and that is the effect that you see in Brazil today where many of the Yoruba slaves maintained their culture till this very day. We all know the Igbo's were are a dominant ethnic group in Haiti but we see less Igbo influence in Haiti like we see in Jamaica where the Igbo's also had a significant population, this goes to show that the Igbo in Haiti did not hold unto their culture like those in Jamaica, a number of factors could have influenced it but I chose to stay on topic. A lot of Jamaica and Padua words are of Igbo origin.

You got it mixed up Francisco de Sousa did not go to negotiate peace with Oyo, he actually led a Dahomey army against Oyo which oversaw Oyo fall and under the authority of Dahomey. This is why I have warned against reading from only University of Ibadan Publications or OAU publishers. So please gets your facts right.

Yes the story of Oduduwa is supposed be a myth but in reality it is not because Oduduwa actually existed as a Benin prince and that is no coincidence, it just goes to show that the history of Yorubas did not add up and the Yorubas added the myth of Oduduwa falling from the sky instead of revealing that he was a Benin prince on a expansionist journey as that will not sell the Yorubas as the progenitors or ancestors of the Benins and others whom say they are descendants of Oduduwa.

About the Yorubas being descendants of Benin or Dahomey people, there is no wrong in that statement except I inferred that all Yorubas were descendants of Benin and Dahomey people. Now let me explain to you no large group in the world is descended from one ancestry not even the Jews or the Dutch, and that clearly applies to Yoruba Igbo or Hausa, during the reign of Oduduwa in Ife will you say that Oduduwa was not settled in Ife? Didn't his wives bear children didn't his children move to have their own children in yorubaland are those children of Oduduwa not Yorubas today? The same applies to Dahomey people in Oyo so I don't see why you pick offense in that.

Please about the resentment, please dismiss that as fallacy, I have nothing against any ethnic group in Nigeria, all my post throwing jibes on nairaland is for the nairaland e-warriors and just for fun I am sure that 60% of people that read those my bashing laugh out loud, however these Afonja facts that I am posting are simply the truth and does not in any way mean hate or resentment as a student of history this are simply fact that suggest that they was no Oyo empire and not my own personal wishful thinking as you wish to call it

However maybe I should not have posted them for all to see but seeing what Yorubas do and say not just to Igbo's but to every other ethnicities I am left with no choice. Cheers.

slurryeye:


Why should I put your initial quote that is like 10 pages long? That is very unnecessary. Just show how my links corroborates your fabrications that Old oyo empire was a proxy to Dahomey and Benin.
You see, I like pre-colonial African history, and I take pride in finding out that there were kingdoms, Empires and Cities in sub-sahara Africa before the white came to plunder it.
But one of the most difficult thing for historians about sub saharan empires is lack of written records. However, the existence of the empires can be substantiated by oral traditions, archeological evidences, attestation by someone from another empire or region and existing culture and tradition of the old empire

Now to your terrible fabrications.
When it comes to oral tradition about Old oyo empire, not only there are consistency in the narrative of Old oyo empire descendants, there are hundreds of books and first hand accounts out there written by the first set of westerners to contact the indigenous people of Oyo (I can provide copies if you want).

When it comes to archeological evidences, there are tonnes of evidences that showed that Oyo was a very influential empire in pre-colonial 15th to 19th century west africa. Another important evidence was the discovery of art works that suggest the region must have been a big settlement of people in a kingdom or empire. Don't let us forget the account of different westerners that saw Oyo army and Calvary (I believe you know what calvaries are, and how it depict civilization).
https://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/old_oyo.htm
https://www.jstor.org/stable/25130772?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Find attached below some of the ruins and archeological findings of old Oyo empire

Attestation by someone from another empire: Ahmed baba of Songhai empire(I'm sure you don't even know who that is) in his book in the 16th century wrote about Old oyo empire. If Old oyo wasn't an empire, I doubt how Ahmed baba living thousands of miles away could know of the place.

Culture and tradition: up till date, the culture and tradition of Old oyo is being practised by the descendants of the empire. So much so that, the culture was carried across the atlantic and practised in over 7 countries in the new world including Cuba, Brazil, Jamaica, Colombia, USA etc. This single fact defected your lie and insultive fabrication because if Oyo was a proxy to either Dahomey or Benin, the tradition and culture of both places will be infused in the lifes of descendants of Oyo and not the other way round.

Like I said earlier, your post is made up of lies and fabrication filled with hatred you have for Yoruba. It is based on absolute no evidence or source. If I have the time and know your tribe, I can write something 100 times more terrible things.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h28af3-4.htm

http://www.afropedea.org/oyo-empire

http://www.africabib.org/rec.php?RID=190927143

https://africa.si.edu/exhibits/ipi/yoruba.htm

If my post was too lengthy why didn't you delete it content therein, cut it short or highlight the part you wish to disprove instead you choose to alter my quote to mean something else, unless you change that I wouldn't take you seriously and I don't expect anyone too as well.

That said, a good test for history is that it should be able to stand alone in it narratives or account which Yoruba history clearly fails also oral history have never been as good source for history as its narrative is watered down from generations to generations or could be altered to magnify or suit the narrators intentions.

If Oyo was as great a kingdom and not a proxy administrative province how is it that they could not keep records, when Dahomey and Benin kingdoms and other great kingdoms, kept records of their history as far back as the 14th century and Oyo could not keep its own coming 200 year after instead the choose to parade a revised account of the Benin and Dahomey empire as their own history, and chose to call the to kingdoms descendants of Oduduwa and by extension Yorubas.

How do you explain
Oduduwa falling from the sky
How do you explain Oduduwa actually being a Benin prince
How do you explain the Benin kingdom being an older kingdom with records of all it kingship till date and Oyo empire having no records
How do you explain the fact that Benin kingdom have landmark structures and artifacts that depict a kingdom even Ijebu that ran a small kingdom had land mark structures, so why does a kingdom as mighty as Oyo have non.
How do you explain the fact that no ancient historical palace, royal ornaments, king graves or artwork that depict a kingdom or royalty existed in Oyo as it was found in Benin, Dahomey and Nri.
How do you explain a recent Oyo and Yoruba kingdom claiming the title Oba a Benin word for king which Yorubas now claim to be Yoruba words, when in reality it was borrowed during the annexation by Benin.
How to you explain the fact the the words Benin, Dahomey and Oyo have to be used interchangeably in Oyo empire history when no such word is used in Benin or Dahomey history except where they give records of their exploits in yorubaland.
How do you explain the fact that no record of Oyo warriors invading Benin or Dahomey, when they are endless records of the reverse.

The questions are endless, pointers to the fact that no empire existed in Oyo are to numerous to ignore, these are simple questions that kills any idea or narrative of any Oyo empire.

I would have help you work around the answers to come to a conclusion that shows that what you called and empire was actually a administrative province for other great kingdoms.

Before I do that like I said you change my initial post which you quoted so I can't take you serious or i will not waste my time with you if you don't change it back but I am only providing this questions so reader don't take you serious as well.

Personally I think the Yorubas should have projected Ijebu as that great and mighty kingdom instead of Oyo as Ijebu would have been more marketable to the world.

If you go through the thread you will see that I am politely engaging 9jacool who is coming up with a more logical arguement without altering any of my post.

All I can see in this thread are the rantings and ramblings of a pained Igbo... Hhahaha

Next time , pray to God to bring you into the world through an ethnic group with a glorious historical statute.

YonkijiSappo:
All I can see in this thread are the rantings and ramblings of a pained Igbo... Hhahaha

Next time , pray to God to bring you into the world through an ethnic group with a glorious historical statute.

Thank God you said what you see, Op is more concerned with what non Yorubas see

Coolitempq:
Thank God you said what you see, Op is more concerned with what non Yorubas see

E dey pain you o,.... Gagaun...

YonkijiSappo:


E dey pain you o,.... Gagaun...

Mr man don't derail this thread stay on topic and learn, I am awaiting more reasonable argument from 9jacool the only sensible Yoruba man on it thread so far.

Afonja ntor

Coolitempq:
Mr man don't derail this thread stay on topic and learn, I am awaiting more reasonable argument from 9jacool the only sensible Yoruba man on it thread so far.

Afonja ntor

lol you think i have your time.... If I wanted i could deliberately turn this thread upside down by copying a load of thrash 10 pages long from somewhere on the web and dumping it here. But because this thread actually shows the jealousness and saddened state of the Igbo man towards Yoruba cultural superiority I am actually leaving it to thrive.
Let the world see your folly.

YonkijiSappo:


lol you think i have your time.... If I wanted i could deliberately turn this thread upside down by copying a load of thrash 10 pages long from somewhere on the web and dumping it here. But because this thread actually shows the jealousness and saddened state of the Igbo man towards Yoruba cultural superiority I am actually leaving it to thrive.
Let the world see your folly.

Spamming this thread with 10 pages of trash does not answer the questions or disprove the facts, so it is inconsequential and will only go on to give credit to these facts

Distance between Afonja and sense be like

Coolitempq:
Why would I expect you to be angered by my post, in fact I am happy with your arguments because amongst all your brothers whom have commented so far on this thread only you have done the honorable thing by trying to disprove these facts, so my brother no I do not intend to anger you with my post, but I must confess I am rather impressed by your arguements very interesting point of view and angle you are coming from but there are still too many loops that cannot be ignored.

Weren't you the one who said I was "spitting out rage and fury driven by emotional pain and anger." Anyways, I believe that thoughtful discussion and dialogue creates understanding and brings people together, rather than throwing personal attacks.

Why are you still insisting on calling the Brazilian slave revolt a Yoruba one, the white during the slavery era never only exclusively shipped one set of people to any country as they usually sort for slaves from many coastline territories and bought slaves from there, while it could be correct to say they were significant Yoruba slaves in Brazil that does not rule out the fact that other ethnicities were there as well and we can't even say the Yoruba population was more than the other ethnicities independently or put together.

First of all, I didn't say that Yoruba slaves were the only slaves taken to the Americas. There were many slave revolts and protests that took place in the Americas. However, the Male revolt specifically was organized by Yoruba. You know, this whole conversation came up because you claimed that Yoruba didn't resist external forces.

Also, I wasn't the one who called the Brazilian Male revolt a "Yoruba revolt", the Brazilian did themselves. Or are you going to tell me that you know their history better than them. There are written records of it and it is solid fact. Let me break it down to you. "Male" or "imale" is a Yoruba word that is used to describe Yoruba Muslims. Hence, Islam among Yoruba people is commonly referred to as "Esin-Imale." The term stuck with the Yoruba muslims that were taken to Brazil. Yoruba muslims in Brazil were well united and could organize together to plan the revolt which took place on Ramadan.

However we all know that the Yorubas are know to maintain and uphold their culture and that is the effect that you see in Brazil today where many of the Yoruba slaves maintained their culture till this very day. We all know the Igbo's were are a dominant ethnic group in Haiti but we see less Igbo influence in Haiti like we see in Jamaica where the Igbo's also had a significant population, this goes to show that the Igbo in Haiti did not hold unto their culture like those in Jamaica, a number of factors could have influenced it but I chose to stay on topic. A lot of Jamaica and Padua words are of Igbo origin.

Yes, I don't disagree with you there. In Haiti, Gbe culture became the dominant culture that around 2% of them still practice Vodoo, which is even higher than the percentage of traditional adherents of some African countries. Just like with Yoruba in Brazil, Igbo culture and language became very influential in Jamaica. Jamaican Patois has a lot of words that originated from the Igbo language.

You got it mixed up Francisco de Sousa did not go to negotiate peace with Oyo, he actually led a Dahomey army against Oyo which oversaw Oyo fall and under the authority of Dahomey. This is why I have warned against reading from only University of Ibadan Publications or OAU publishers. So please gets your facts right.

Why in the world do you think the king of Dahomey would send a foreigner to Oyo? Here is your answer: The king of Dahomey, Ghezo came to power with the help of Fransico de Souza and they became a close ally of each other. At first, De Souza was sent to Oyo by Ghezo, to negotiate peace in order to end the kingdom's tributary status. The peace talks broke down after the Alaafin rejected his offer. De Souza would later led the Dahomey army to confront Oyo. His army was able to secure a victory which ended Dahomey's tributary status.

Yes the story of Oduduwa is supposed be a myth but in reality it is not because Oduduwa actually existed as a Benin prince and that is no coincidence, it just goes to show that the history of Yorubas did not add up and the Yorubas added the myth of Oduduwa falling from the sky instead of revealing that he was a Benin prince on a expansionist journey as that will not sell the Yorubas as the progenitors or ancestors of the Benins and others whom say they are descendants of Oduduwa.

Yoruba didn't add the myth for validation. The myth is very ancient has been around for centuries before the modern age. It's set on the foundation for Yoruba's society. Many myths from Benin and Ile-Ife have some parallels. Oral accounts can often change, especially over a period of over 1,000 years. I'm not here to discuss the Benin oral accounts concerning Oduduwa.

About the Yorubas being descendants of Benin or Dahomey people, there is no wrong in that statement except I inferred that all Yorubas were descendants of Benin and Dahomey people. Now let me explain to you no large group in the world is descended from one ancestry not even the Jews or the Dutch, and that clearly applies to Yoruba Igbo or Hausa, during the reign of Oduduwa in Ife will you say that Oduduwa was not settled in Ife? Didn't his wives bear children didn't his children move to have their own children in yorubaland are those children of Oduduwa not Yorubas today? The same applies to Dahomey people in Oyo so I don't see why you pick offense in that.

Many languages in Nigeria, and West Africa at large diverged from a proto-ancestor. No one group came from the other, what you have is cultural diffusion and exchange, nothing more. I respect different entities as separate, but it seems that you would like to jump to the claim that Yoruba people are descendant of Benin and Dahomey people. Maybe I need to make this more clear, TIME IS ESSENCE. Dahomey existed from the 17th century onward, Oyo existed from the 14th century. Benin excited from the 12th century and became an empire in the 15th century. Archaeology suggests that Ife was settled from 4th century BC and became prominent in the 12th century. I am not even going to claim that Yoruba is the ancestor of Benin or Dahomey. I respect each individual entities. There is no need to jump to conclusion.

Please about the resentment, please dismiss that as fallacy, I have nothing against any ethnic group in Nigeria, all my post throwing jibes on nairaland is for the nairaland e-warriors and just for fun I am sure that 60% of people that read those my bashing laugh out loud, however these Afonja facts that I am posting are simply the truth and does not in any way mean hate or resentment as a student of history this are simply fact that suggest that they was no Oyo empire and not my own personal wishful thinking as you wish to call it

However maybe I should not have posted them for all to see but seeing what Yorubas do and say not just to Igbo's but to every other ethnicities I am left with no choice. Cheers.

Yeah most of the times it's about jokes. It's good to joke around.
Some people feel like there is a need to be superior. There is no need for an African to condemn the accomplishments or history of another African.
I embrace every ethnic groups in Nigeria and Africa at large. Everyone is equal and have contributed to the continent's rich history and legacy.