DoctorAlien:


Your questions assume a premise: that the soul is different from the body. Gen. 2:7 tells that soul = body + breath. So, when a person is blown to pieces, the spirit(breath) which GOD gave returns to Him, while the body returns to dust.

wrong again... like ubenedictus just pointed out... Jesus talks about killing the body but not killing the soul... if they are inseparable, how can someone kill the body but not the soul?? see mat 10:28

My earlier questions still stand... waiting for your answer

italo:
Mary, the Mother of God

"But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother...?" Matt. 12:48

"For whosoever shall do will of my Father which is in Heaven, the same is my ... mother" Matt. 12:50

"...My mother and brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." Luke 8:21

So, why are you not worshiping all the good women in the NT, and indeed every woman that does GOD's will, because Jesus calls them His mother?

DoctorAlien:


"But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother...?" Matt. 12:48

"For whosoever shall do will of my Father which is in Heaven, the same is my ... mother" Matt. 12:50

So, why are you not worshiping all the good women in the NT, and indeed every woman that does GOD's will, because Jesus calls them His mother?

You want to divert the topic again abi...

My friend.. go and sit down in one place

DoctorAlien:


You must find another interpretation for the verses in Revelation, because Jesus said He would COME AGAIN to take His people to Himself, so that they will be where He is, and not that His people go to Him, maybe at death. You have not shown me where the Bible says that a soul leaves the body when a person dies.

heheh,
this is what happen when people do not have a complete bible.

Ubenedictus:
heheh,
this is what happen when people do not have a complete bible.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteouness:" 2 Tim. 3:16

When Paul says "scriptures", he refers to the Hebrew Bible(the law, the prophets and the psalms, which is essentially the OT). Paul says that even the OT alone is sufficient for doctrine and instruction in righteousness.

You get it? So all those nonsense sirach and maccabees and tobith and whatnot are neither profitable for doctrine, nor for instruction in righteousness.

DoctorAlien:
More blows to your erroneous beliefs, easymancfc:

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." Psa. 115:17

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psa. 6:5

"For the grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth." Isa. 38:18

It seems GOD knew that many people will misinterpret the message He would pass through Peter and erroneously claim that Christ went to preach to spirits of dead people, and so He spoke through Isaiah that dead people cannot hope for GOD's truth. Now if that is the case that the dead cannot hope for GOD's truth, How could it be that Jesus went to preach this truth to dead people?

Even though, I do not want to be drawn into your argument, can you please interpret this:

Mark 12:26–27
26 But concerning the dead, that they nrise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken.”

Pls combine it with what happened at the Mount of Transfiguration.

What did Jesus say they were mistaken about?

DoctorAlien:


I want to correct the first mistake you made: the Bible doesn't call it "my" or "your" spirit; it calls it "the" spirit. The spirit belongs to GOD.

What then is that spirit? We can be sure that it is not a conscious being. The spirit that returns to GOD is simply the breath of life which He gave in Genesis 2:7. That spirit + body = soul, Gen. 2:7 tells us.

"All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of GOD is in my nostrils;" Job 27:3

Job points out that the spirit of GOD is in His nostrils. Surely the spirit is not a conscious being, because the only thing in our nostrils is breath.

Actually you make a mistake when u assume that the word soul is always use to mean 1 thing, actually soul and spirit means several things depending on d context.
1. dead bodY
2. Any living creature
3. life
4. breath
5. that which is undistroyed after death.
6. wind
7....
It is used to refer to more than 1 thing,

shadeyinka:


Even though, I do not want to be drawn into your argument, can you please interpret this:

Mark 12:26–27
26 But concerning the dead, that they nrise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken.”

Pls combine it with what happened at the Mount of Transfiguration.

What did Jesus say they were mistaken about?

Jesus was telling the Jews that in the eyes of GOD, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are as good and living in GOD's eyes, because they are destined for the first resurrection which is for the holy and blessed.(Rev. 20)

Bear in mind that part of Jesus' audience then were the Saduccees, who did not believe in the resurrection. So, Jesus effectually dealt a blow to their incorrect beliefs by telling that Abraham will live again.

DoctorAlien:


Jesus was telling the Jews that in the eyes of GOD, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are as good and living in GOD's eyes, because they are destined for the first resurrection which is for the holy and blessed.(Rev. 20)

Bear in mind that part of Jesus' audience then were the Saduccees, who did not believe in the resurrection. So, Jesus effectually dealt a blow to their incorrect beliefs by telling that Abraham will live again.

Wrong again " Jesus said HE IS GOD OF THE LIVING, (Present tense) NOT OF THE DEAD, NOT THAT HE WILL BE GOD OF THE LIVING AT THE RESURRECTION,

OYA RELATE IT TO THE TRANSFIGURATION WHERE WE ACTUALLY SEE MOSES AND ELIJAH WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IN SOUL SLEEP

shadeyinka,

On the mount of transfiguration, Moses and Elijah were present. Moses was resurrected by Jesus and taken to Heaven(Jude 9). Elijah was taken alive to Heaven. They came down from Heaven to that mount of transfiguration.

I wouldn't like to bore you but remember that Revelations 13:8 calls Jesus the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. But we know that Jesus was slain about 4000 years into the creation of the world. So in essence, anything that must surely take place is seen as done already in GOD's eyes. That is why Jesus calls Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "living".

DoctorAlien:


"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteouness:" 2 Tim. 3:16

When Paul says "scriptures", he refers to the Hebrew Bible(the law, the prophets and the psalms, which is essentially the OT). Paul says that even the OT alone is sufficient for doctrine and instruction in righteousness.

You get it? So all those nonsense sirach and maccabees and tobith and whatnot are neither profitable for doctrine, nor for instruction in righteousness.

Actually sirac.... was part of scripture that paul was talking abt. the early church didnt use only 39 books.

shadeyinka:


Even though, I do not want to be drawn into your argument, can you please interpret this:

Mark 12:26–27
26 But concerning the dead, that they nrise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken.”

Pls combine it with what happened at the Mount of Transfiguration.

What did Jesus say they were mistaken about?

hehehe,

DoctorAlien:
shadeyinka,

On the mount of transfiguration, Moses and Elijah were present. Moses was resurrected by Jesus and taken to Heaven(Jude 9). Elijah was taken alive to Heaven. They came down from Heaven to that mount of transfiguration.

I wouldn't like to bore you but remember that Peter calls Jesus the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. But we know that Jesus was slain about 4000 years into the creation of the world. So in essence, anything that must surely take place is seen as done already in GOD's eyes. That is why Jesus calls Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "living".

Twisting scripture again... Jude 9 doesn't mention Jesus or resurrection, it only says the DEVIL was Contending with MICHAEL for the "body" of Moses... no resurrection is mentioned, no Jesus is mentioned no heaven is mentioned, stop saying what is not there
jude1: 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”

While the transfiguration doesn’t directly give us information on the state of the dead, it retains theological significance nonetheless. When Peter recounted his experience in 2 Peter 1:16–18, he writes that he witnessed Christ’s coming at that time. In other words, he understood the experience to represent the return of Jesus Christ. Moses and Elijah represent the two classes of God’s people who will be present at that miraculous event: Moses represents the “dead in Christ” who rise to new life, and Elijah represents “those who are alive and remain” who will be translated to heaven and eternal life without ever experiencing death in the first place (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Understanding that the transfiguration is a representation of the second coming of Christ also helps us understand Christ’s promise that “some standing here … shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God,” spoken a few days before the transfiguration (Luke 9:27).

cc: shadeyinka

DoctorAlien:


Jesus was telling the Jews that in the eyes of GOD, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are as good and living in GOD's eyes, because they are destined for the first resurrection which is for the holy and blessed.(Rev. 20)

Bear in mind that part of Jesus' audience then were the Saduccees, who did not believe in the resurrection. So, Jesus effectually dealt a blow to their incorrect beliefs by telling that Abraham will live again.

With respect to the bold, you say Abraham is dead?

You talk about the future, Jesus talks about now.

Show me where Jesus used the word "will"

Matthew 22:31-33

But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32. I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. 33. And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

Just like the multitude in that time couldn't understand that doctrine, they didn't try to twist it the way most of you do now.

Abraham is more alive than you Mr Scripture Twister.

Ubenedictus:
Actually sirac.... was part of scripture that paul was talking abt. the early church didnt use only 39 books.

Who is feeding you these lies? Sirac whatever was not and is not part of the original Hebrew Bible.

ss

jnrbayano

DoctorAlien:
I wouldn't like to bore you but remember that Revelations 13:8 calls Jesus the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. But we know that Jesus was slain about 4000 years into the existence of the world. So in essence, anything that must surely take place is seen as done already in GOD's eyes. That is why Jesus calls Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "living".

DoctorAlien:
While the transfiguration doesn’t directly give us information on the state of the dead, it retains theological significance nonetheless. When Peter recounted his experience in 2 Peter 1:16–18, he writes that he witnessed Christ’s coming at that time. In other words, he understood the experience to represent the return of Jesus Christ. Moses and Elijah represent the two classes of God’s people who will be present at that miraculous event: Moses represents the “dead in Christ” who rise to new life, and Elijah represents “those who are alive and remain” who will be translated to heaven and eternal life without ever experiencing death in the first place (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Understanding that the transfiguration is a representation of the second coming of Christ also helps us understand Christ’s promise that “some standing here … shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God,” spoken a few days before the transfiguration (Luke 9:27).

cc: shadeyinka

Indeed... but the point is Moses who died was present there and not in the grave waiting for the second coming...

besides the transfiguration is not the only revelation we have...
there's the cloud of witnesses in Hebrews 12:1, WITNESSING IS AN ACTIVE THING, WHICH GRAVE DWELLERS CAN'T DO

There's also the spirits of just men made perfect IN HEAVEN, at the time Hebrews was written WHICH IS NOT AT THE 2ND COMING...

Rev 5:8 has the 24 elders praising God and Offering the prayers of the Saints to God..
UNCONSCIOUS PEOPLE IN THE GRAVE CAN'T DO THAT..

rev 6:9-11, talks about souls of martyrs under God's altar seeking for vengeance??
HOW DID THEY GET THERE SINCE THERE ARE NO SOULS IN HEAVEN, THEY WERE NOT TAKEN UP LIKE ELIJAH, AND HAVE CLEARLY NOT BEING RESURRECTED..

WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWERS

DoctorAlien:


Who is feeding you these lies? Sirac whatever was not and is not part of the original Hebrew Bible.

D new testament quoted mainly the greek scriptures not hebrew, and the quram cave show that those books were also part of d hebrew bible before 100AD

Ubenedictus:
D new testament quoted the greek scriptures not hebrew, and the quram cave show that those books were also part of d hebrew bible before 100AD

Oga Paul did not quote Greek Scriptures, neither did he quote sirach. Continue deceiving yourself. It is there on Wikipedia for you to read and stop lying. Sirach and all those uninspired books were never part of Hebrew canon.

DoctorAlien:


Oga Paul did not quote Greek Scriptures, neither did he quote sirach. Continue deceiving yourself. It is there on Wikipedia for you to read and stop lying. Sirach and all those uninspired books were never part of Hebrew canon.

you are the one lying, the scripture quoted in d new testament is largely the septuagint.
www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/tips/what-bible-did-jesus-use-11638841.html

DoctorAlien:


Oga Paul did not quote Greek Scriptures, neither did he quote sirach. Continue deceiving yourself. It is there on Wikipedia for you to read and stop lying. Sirach and all those uninspired books were never part of Hebrew canon.

Matt. 2:16 - Herod's decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents. Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure. Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others. Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation. Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.
jimmyakin.com/deuterocanonical-references-in-the-new-testament

DoctorAlien:
I don't understand: did Eccl. 9:10 stop being true in the NT?
The Bible says there is no knowledge of any sort in the grave.

I think a big part of the problem here, and generally in threads like this is that many people are unaware that the bible contains a variety of theologies, and a variety of cosmologies.

You run into the problems you do when you think that the bible is coherent all over. It is neither coherence nor cogent.

Ubenedictus, here is a quote from Wikipedia

There are numerous citations of Sirach within the Talmud, even though the book was not ultimately accepted into the Hebrew canon.

Continue deceiving yourself.

PastorAIO:


I think a big part of the problem here, and generally in threads like this is that many people are unaware that the bible contains a variety of theologies, and a variety of cosmologies.

You run into the problems you do when you think that the bible is coherent all over. It is neither coherence nor cogent.

The Bible is actually and objectively coherent all over, and that is what we Bible Christians believe.

What is obvious is that some incorrect interpretations which seem to make some portions of the Bible contradict other portions must give way for correct interpretations.

DoctorAlien:


The Bible is actually and objectively coherent all over, and that is what we Bible Christians believe.

What is obvious is that some incorrect interpretations which seem to make some portions of the Bible contradict other portions must give way for correct interpretations.

Okay o, anyhow you like it.

DoctorAlien:


"But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother...?" Matt. 12:48

"For whosoever shall do will of my Father which is in Heaven, the same is my ... mother" Matt. 12:50

"...My mother and brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." Luke 8:21

So, why are you not worshiping all the good women in the NT, and indeed every woman that does GOD's will, because Jesus calls them His mother?

Because they are not God...but we honour all the Saints who do God's will, not just Mary.

DoctorAlien:


The Bible is actually and objectively coherent all over, and that is what we Bible Christians believe.

What is obvious is that some incorrect interpretations which seem to make some portions of the Bible contradict other portions must give way for correct interpretations.

...meaning 'must give way for doctoralien's interpretation.'

shadeyinka:


I haven't read these three books. Do you have soft copies PR are they available on thebweb?

I couldn't say if the are available online or not. None of that is the point. You said only books that were written by apostles, OR in circulation in their lifetime, ....

These books ( to the extent that we can know) fulfil your criteria as much as the gospels.

Why would you not accept these books as scripture? May I suggest it is because they are not a part of the tradition that have come down to you via the Catholic Church.

DoctorAlien:


The Bible is actually and objectively coherent all over, and that is what we Bible Christians believe.

What is obvious is that some incorrect interpretations which seem to make some portions of the Bible contradict other portions must give way for correct interpretations.

That's correct brother...