The Absurdities Of Free Will. - Religion - Nairaland
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God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. / Why Were We Given Free Will Which Could Still Lead Us To Hell? / Still On The Absurdities Inherent In The Bible (2) (3) (4)
| The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 4:16pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
{{{{{Absurdities}}}}} Isn't this very weird for some evangelicals to claim "free will" is the difference between the saved and unsaved and not grace? Don't you find this weird and an insult to Christ's accomplished work on the cross? How can anyone look at Christ on the cross and say the cross isn't the difference between him/her and the unsaved but "free will"? he sees the cross as a common thing. Absurdity 101 * Jesus died for everyone...but everyone is not saved *Jesus atoned for everyone...but not everyone is atoned for * Jesus redeemed everyone... but everyone is not redeemed * Jesus took away the sin of the world... but the sin of the world takes them to hell What's more absurd than the above statements? Today envangelicals/freewillers are presenting a completely warped and false and distorted picture of the cross and it's actual effects. They deny, I mean they DENY that the cross is the ACTUAL means of accomplished redemption. For these people, the death of Jesus is of itself INSUFFICIENT to save, contrary to the Bible which says that we are reconciled to God BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON. What about the atonement? They say it atoned for all sins except "unbelief" which literally means it didn't atone for All sins. Unbelief is no small sin. How could the blood not have atoned for unbelief too? How would a man stop sinning if it wasn't atoned for? How would a man quit his unbelief if it wasn't atoned for? 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 4:31pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
What can be truer than this?
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| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 4:43pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
How can anyone who distorts the gospel by adding to it escape the curse placed on preachers of a different gospel. There can't be any praise of God or thanksgiving in the freewiller's heart. All his praise are lip service because he doesn't understand why Christ is called the redeemer and saviour. Instead of grace he sees his "free will". 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by freeradical(m): 5:30pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
Are you saying that we are all saved irrespective of what our life choices are simply because Christ died for us on the cross. Is that what u understand by us being justified by Christ's sacrifice for us on the cross? |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 6:19pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
freeradical:No freewillers are the ones making false unbiblical statements such as *Christ died for all, but not everyone would be saved. Then, It's either Christ's death is insufficient to pay for everyone's sins or He died not for everyone. 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Julivas(m): 6:57pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
An2elect2:Op, please state your stand clearly. To me o, Jesus Christ died for all, but it now left for anyone to choose. 3 Likes |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by freeradical(m): 7:26pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
An2elect2:My dear the fact that some people by their own choice reject the free gift of salvation offered by a loving God through his Christ and by that choice stand condemned doesn't make Christ's sacrifice on the cross insufficient. If u do not understand what Justification means the church is there to guide you. Be careful on how you interpret scriptural texts lest u become guilty of spreading falsehood as truth. Here below is the truth,(next paragraph) read it carefully and ask d spirit to guide you to understand it for it's a summary of what scripture teaches about our salvation and Justification. Everyone must work for his/her own salvation in fear and trembling and it is only the grace of God offered freely (and accepted by free choice by the individual) that will make any man die to sin as Christ died on the cross and rise to eternal life as Christ rose from the dead so that in the end no man will boast that his salvation is as a result of his work. |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 7:44pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
Julivas:You see, it's not your opinion that matters if not God would have asked for it before creating anything. If it's left for us then that means we still have some good in us and that's a lie. 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 8:04pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
freeradical:But by implication you are saying just that. Let's face the matter: Is Christ's death enough for the salvation of a sinner. That's what the Bible says. Then if so, he cannot be saved by his choice but by grace. If I ask you now. Why are you saved and the other not saved. You would say what you have been saying "I did choose to be saved while the other did not choose to be saved" You won't say this "It is Grace that saved me. I am who I am by the grace of God." But that's the difference between self-righteous and true righteousness. [i] Check all my threads. I've become a diligent student of the Bible by God's grace. And what I'm saying is what our fathers in the faith have been saying, they are what the apostle Paul preached, they are what the first Christians knew. Test all I've been saying. Search the scriptures honestly and tell me if I've been lying This is what I believed too when I wasn't studying the Bible but I'm now repenting from all of them because they are not scriptural 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Julivas(m): 10:20pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
An2elect2:If i get you right, what you are saying is that since Jesus Christ had died, everyone is automatically saved? Please explain the more. |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Nobody: 11:13pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
An2elect2: "It's either Christ's death is insufficient to pay for everyone's sins or He died not for everyone." If the first statement is true, then Christ is not God. If the second statement is true, then Christ is not God. Now, who is Christ? |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Nobody: 11:14pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
Julivas: What if I refuse to choose?  |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Nobody: 11:22pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
freeradical: I have to read carefully and call on the holy spirit to understand something written in black and white? Confusion everywhere |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Julivas(m): 11:36pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
onyenze123:I know you will not refuse to choose eternal life in God kingdom through HIS son Jesus Christ our Saviour. 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Julivas(m): 11:40pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
onyenze123:Sir, there is no confusion any where, it is just the way each individual interpret the scriptures that seems like it get confused. 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Nobody: 11:59pm On Apr 29, 2017 |
Julivas: At this stage, it is the holy spirit that can arrest me By the way, what will happen to Moslems, Shinto, Hindus.... Can they get this eternal life through another means? You don't believe Christ is the way. |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Nobody: 6:28am On Apr 30, 2017 |
here to read comments.. to get enlightened |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 8:37am On Apr 30, 2017 |
Julivas:What I am saying are these: a, Since Jesus's death is sufficient to pay for the sins of all He died for, then all of them would certainly be saved. b, If anyone is not saved at the end, then he isn't one of those Christ died for. 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 8:38am On Apr 30, 2017 |
uzoclinton:You are welcome! 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 8:50am On Apr 30, 2017 |
onyenze123: If it's a matter of insufficiency: That is that Christ died for Mr A and Mr A still has no hope except he exercises his enslaved will (freewillers think it's free not bound) then Christ cannot be the Lord or Savior of Mr A but Mr A's "righteous choice". And if it's a matter of Christ not dying for everyone, thats then a matter of Sovereign choice. And who are we to dictate for God who He should have mercy on! God exercising His power and Sovereign choice shows He is the Almighty and Decision maker. If He reasons the way we do then He can't be God |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 11:05am On Apr 30, 2017 |
uzoclinton: Free will gospel is so weird and in direct opposition to the gospel of grace. This is an analogy of Sufficient payment that does not cover wholly the activities of sin, the gospel, election and judgement but hit the nail right on the head. Supposing a man receives a message that his unborn son would have to be punished for all his wrong doings in his life time by the community. And the payment is gruesome. The father seats down and counts the cost of all his son's sins and decides to bear it. Now he wants a replacement for his son. And decides to be the substitute. Instead of his son bearing the cost, he decides to bear all of it. He meets the elders in the community. And after weighing the matter carefully, they agree to punish the man instead of his son. The man is beaten up, humiliated, wounded, killed and put where his son would have been and on his account are the sins of his son fully paid. In future, his son is born. And when he is of age, people would come to tell him what his father did for him and how he was freed by his father's death. The community would not punish the son again because his father has borne it. If they punish him that would be UNJUST. Here is what is going to be absurd. On one hand are people telling the son that his father's death had freed him and he would never go through what his father went through no matter what happens because his father calculated the cost of all his sins and bore them. He (the son) would not suffer anymore for his sins but live to be eternally grateful to his father and LOVE HIS FATHER. And then, on the other hand supposing some strange people come to tell the son that THOUGH his father died for all his sins, but IF he doesn't accept(which is a sin) what he did and/or IF he still sins after what his father did, HE WOULD BEAR THE COST OF HIS SINS THE FATHER HAS BORNE. ^^ It sounds ridiculous and no good news at all! But that's what we hear everyday in our churches, on the pulpits, on the roads, from evangelists. They are preaching another gospel which is no gospel(good News) at all. It's heresy and the peddlers of such gospels are accursed. 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by freeradical(m): 12:10pm On Apr 30, 2017 |
An2elect2: |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Julivas(m): 2:09pm On Apr 30, 2017 |
onyenze123: Happy Sunday bro. If that is what you want, I pray that Holy Spirit will arrest sooner than you expected in Jesus mighty name, amen. As to other religion, what i know is this, death came into existence through a man called Adam, and life came from another man called Jesus Christ. So no matter the mode of your worship to God Almighty, if you accept Jesus Christ as the Lord and Saviour and you follow Him sincerely, you shall surely have eternal life in His kingdom. |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Julivas(m): 2:23pm On Apr 30, 2017 |
An2elect2: Happy Sunday Look at it this way: A wealthy individual in a certain community went into an agreement with an institution of vocational learning to sponsor all the youths in that community to learn a trade. An announcement was made regarding this in the community so that all will be aware and take action. At the end of registration period, only 60% of the youth population showed interest. Now the question is, has the wealthy man not paid for the entire population of the youth? Yes, he has paid for all. What made the remaining 40% not to register in the institute? Self will. 2 Likes |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 3:52pm On Apr 30, 2017 |
Julivas:Hi happy Sunday! I appreciate your willingness and contribution. To the issue... Your analogy however downplayed the seriousness of the matter. It made it a question of "good" or "better" and not life or death. The lack that the wealthy man is covering for is a lack of want and not need! There isn't really nothing at stake if it's rejected. Summarily, it didn't cover the principle of sin, grace, death and life. And what you are implying is that CHRIST'S DEATH ISNT ENOUGH. |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Nobody: 4:22pm On Apr 30, 2017 |
Julivas: While you are praying for me, tell the holy spirit to give me the gifts of signs and wonders. I want to open my ministry |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by CandidSeeker(m): 11:17pm On Apr 30, 2017 |
An2elect2: He gave you a Spirit-led analogy, and you will do yourself a lot of good, if you can take your time to study The Gospels all over again, paying fresh attention to The Words of Jesus Christ. Choice has a role to play in the matter. -Peace. 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 12:14am On May 01, 2017 |
CandidSeeker:Free will is a damnable heresy. It's no gospel at all. Beware. If you call that a Spirit-led analogy then you know nothing of what the Bible is saying. Sad! |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Julivas(m): 11:54am On May 01, 2017 |
onyenze123:Good day to you I beseech you to pray for the most important gift, which is love. Besides, Holy Spirit will definitely give you the one you deserve. 1 Like |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Julivas(m): 11:58am On May 01, 2017 |
[quote author=An2elect2 post=56070482]Hi happy Sunday! I appreciate your willingness and contribution. To the issue... Your analogy however downplayed the seriousness of the matter. It made it a question of "good" or "better" and not life or death. The lack that the wealthy man is covering for is a lack of want and not need! There isn't really nothing at stake if it's rejected. Summarily, it didn't cover the principle of sin, grace, death and life. And what you are implying is that CHRIST'S DEATH ISNT ENOUGH. [/quote) Good day and happy new month. Please can you please explain this scripture 2 Corinthians 5 : 15. Thanks. |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by Julivas(m): 12:03pm On May 01, 2017 |
An2elect2:Good day and happy new month Please can you please explain this verse of the scriptures 2 Corinthians 5 : 15 |
| Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(f): 5:35pm On May 01, 2017 |
Julivas:Hi. Same to you! 2Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. Notice: His death alone is the reason they would no longer live for themselves. It is not whether they will or will not it is that they will certainly live for him. His death was not to make us "savable" but to save us. What then? some are not saved! Is God a liar? God forbid. If we have seen that Christ's death is enough to save a sinner without any contribution from him (be it his will or work) then it must follow that Christ did not die for everyman. So all must mean "all his elect/sheep" and not "all individuals" [At first glance it seems this verse supports the freewiller's stance but when we weigh it in the light of the complete word of God, we see what it truly means.] Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your bloodyou purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. Matthew 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he willsave his peoplefrom their sins.” John 10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. John 6:37-40 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” Isaiah 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished. Isaiah 53:1,12 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. 2 Corinthians 5:21 He made Him (Christ) who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” Christ became a substitute for many. In that instead of them bearing their sins he bore all for them. It was on the cross that all their sins where judged. They cannot be judged for sin again. It is finished! "Bible reveals Jesus’ death on the cross was intentional and had a definite purpose that it succeeded in accomplishing" FREE WILL PUTS GOD AT THE MERCY OF MEN(God is placed on trial) BUT GRACE PUTS MEN AT THE MERCY OF GOD. I am who I am by the grace of God. |
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