Pchinak:
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also". James 2:26

An2elect2:
Most times people in reaction to legalistic law keeping Pharisaical Christians (who subtly deny the grace of God and seek to obtain righteousness through the law thereby denying the finished work of Christ on the cross.) make phrases like this: THE CHRISTIAN LIFE IS SIMPLE. CHRIST HAS ACCOMPLISHED EVERYTHING. THE ONLY THING IS SIMPLE FAITH IN THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST. Wheew! Now what's wrong with this? Isn't this what salvation is about?

Yes there isn't anything wrong with Faith in Christ and His finished work. After all we are saved by grace through faith. We are justified by faith. We live by faith etc However there is a big difference between SIMPLE FAITH and SAVING FAITH. and you guessed right, it's SAVING FAITH the Bible is talking of!

Saving faith is simply a faith that is authored by God, comes from God and is perfected by God. It is a faith that conforms us to Christ and through it we learn obedience. This saving faith is not inborn i.e It isn't natural. It does not come by mental persuasion but by (spirit) hearing of the word of God. It is a gift GIVEN WHEN THE MAN IS NOT SEARCHING. We can't prompt God for it. It happens "out of the blue". An unexpected quickening.


Can someone believe in the finished work of Christ and still not be saved? POSSIBLE. There are many with such faith but have no experience of the new life. They walk about trusting in their faith in the finished work ~~faith in faith~~ (*shudders*)
It is because of such, that many legalistic law keeping Christians question Christ's grace.


A man says he believes in the finished work of Christ and he believes salvation is by grace. But this man has not the substance of the hope he professes. There was never a time he saw how sinful he was, mourned over his sins and had a changed mind and will. This man has never been brought to his knees before a Holy God.

Deception is very real. And if any man thinks he is above deception, he has not known anything. That's why we are to prayerfully examine ourselves in the light of the scriptures. Salvation isn't something you "decide to have" Faith isn't something you can will.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

paxonel:

Op, where in the scripture is it written that someone can believe in the finished work of christ, yet he is still not saved. Contrary, the bible affirmed that whosever believe is saved automatically. John 3:16

An2elect2:
True and it is God that works in us to will and to do. Philippians 2:13.

An2elect2:
I will answer this soon.

Pchinak:


Careful there, because it's left for you to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling".Philippians 2:12

Pchinak:


Careful there, because it's left for you to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling".Philippians 2:12

An2elect2:
"Work out your salvation" is so different from "Work for your salvation".
To "work out" means to bear fruits of salvation. But still yet, it isn't you that bears fruits but God.

There are two things in the Bible that are both true. Our responsibility and God's grace and will.

For example, we were all commanded to obey the gospel but not all of us will. That's why we would each give account in the last day.

Those who obey have no power to obey of themselves but by grace through faith and by the Sovereign will of God, they obey and are saved. It is in the same line, that they are asked to "work out" their salvation but not forgetting the other truth, which is that God is the one who works in them to will and to do.

Pchinak:


The emboldened is very true, always keep it in sight. Then consider...

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway". 1Cor.9:27

An2elect2:
It's so sad that you fit the definition of a law keeping Pharisaical Christian.

Why do you want to glory before God by all means? Is it possible to work something yourself and give God the glory? Don't deceive yourself it is not possible!

In as much as the Christian has a responsibility or responsibilities, he is not to rely on his "strength or ability" (which are weaknesses anyway). It is by grace through faith that he must be preserved. This is the SPIRIT-WALKING the Bible is talking of.

Christianity is not a "play your part and God plays His" The Christian must trust in God completely to live or do anything. He cannot do anything including subjecting his body except SOLELY BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. Any other means or addition is WALKING IN THE FLESH.

and in case you have tried letting go of your "strength" to rely on the grace of God and still have no experience of this power over sin, it means it's time to examine yourself to see if Christ is truly inside of you!!!

Because if Christ(the embodiment of grace) is inside of you, you WILL NOT CONTINUE IN SIN.

Galatians 3:1-14
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:for, The just shall live by faith.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

1Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


Ephesians 3:7
Of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

An2elect2:
Thank you for this important question.
Before I say more, I want us to look at these things very diligently because they are not common things.

It's either we make our election sure or continue being deceived by our proud hearts. It is true that whosoever believes in Christ has eternal life. And it is also true that the faith that leads to salvation is of God.

Now believing in the finished work of Christ is possible through mental persuasion. You believe it in your head and still remain unsaved because it is with heart that we must believe and be saved. Romans 10:9

Yes the heart-believing! This isn't what you can do! Only God can wrought faith in you. How? Remember your heart is naturally wicked, deceitful and hard. It can't produce faith in God but it can deceive you into thinking you have the real thing!

For anyone to believe unto salvation he/she must be given a new heart of faith. And this is solely the work of God.

Jeremiah 24:7
I will give them a heart to know Me, for I am the LORD; and they will be My people, and I will be their God, for they will return to Me with their whole heart.

Ezekiel 36:26
Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh

We must believe in our hearts before we declare we are saved.

Romans 10:9-11
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Paul isn't outlining a pattern for us to follow to obtain salvation but is simply saying how salvation works. Salvation isn't our work but God's work in totality. IT IS GOD THAT WORKS IN US TO DO AND TO WILL. of ourselves we cannot be saved

Romans 10:14-21
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

the people who obeyed the gospel were not seeking God! But they found God! Those whom God revealed Himself to were not asking God for it! How come!!!!

Only one person can do this!

John1:10-13
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

---

My dear only God knows those He has chosen from the foundation of the world. We were only told that whosoever believes in Christ is saved (i. e how to identify those sovereignly chosen by God) but we were not told who and who consists of this whosoever but one thing that is very clear is that the elect of God are those who would believe! And their faith won't be a simple one but a saving faith!

Pchinak:





Exactly why I didn't reply to the other empty vessel that quoted me above. I was actually thinking we are two anonymous individuals having scripture in common, and willing to enter a chat of fraternal expose' on scripture. Go back to my Posts, how many sentences in them have been mine? They have mostly been quotes from scripture, yet look at how disturbed you have been, see how I have been profiled already, and called names. You simply Jump into conclusion of who I am or what I have in mind, then this your conclusion being different from your held unto belief now nullifies even the scriptures I quote, while I on my part was able to Identify and agree with something in your post. It's funny when Christians behave like those they seek to convert and still feel superior. Let me speak no more, what does a law keeping Pharisaic Christian have to offer to the mouth piece of the Holy Spirit?

Shallom.

paxonel:

You are right!
But it's just that, the saving faith you are talking about is the Christian faith which is the christianity we practice as a religion. A lot of Christians don't know that.
In ancient times such as the Bible days, the word Faith was used in place of religion. Today, we use the word religion without resolving it actual meaning.
The goodnews is that we were provisionally saved by our religion(faith) which was established by Christ at his resurrection.
It's as that simple, very simple to be true.
Where the difficulty lies is for non Christians like muslims,athiests,judaismists etc to simply believe,the moment they believe in their heart(heart was another ancient word used to depict
LOVE FOR GOD,not necessarily love for man,as it requires love for God for anyone to believe that Jesus is the Christ).at that point non christians believe by conviction and are converted into christianity through preaching or otherwise,they are saved like that. Nothing else attach to it.
And if you were luckily to born into a Christian home,you came with salvation inside you.
Simple.
Like i said,a lot of Christians do not understand this things so they are busy preaching to convince the wrong people to work for their salvation.
In summary,the saving Faith is nothing but our Faith and is a simple one,but it is we Christians that are making it complex, while the non saving Faith are other religions apart from christianity.

An2elect2:
Oh!! What are you saying!!!

An2elect2:
It is not hard to tell a self-righteous person. They use scripture to oppose scripture.

Person A explains why righteousness is by faith alone referencing the Bible.

Funny, Person B just walks in and quotes james: "faith without works is dead" and goes away. LOL
Anyone with a brain will know where Person B is going with that. If truly he isn't trying to play "righteous" and has a clear conscience, he would explain himself. No one can see his heart but God, we would need him to do better than dropping scriptures that seem to contradict what Person A is saying. Simple!

paxonel:

It will take someone who has read and summarize the whole New Testament and meditate deeply using his mental thinking without the influence of religious sentiments,to understand what i am saying here.

Pchinak:


It's alright. Just so you know, there's nothing wrong with pointing someone to any scripture passage, same way there's nothing wrong in asking someone politely to explain his or herself before drawing inference. I'll try my best to remind myself that threads created by you are not up for discussions next time.

An2elect2:
Do you know there are false Christians too? I narrowed this down to false assurance and genuine assurance among people in Christendom

paxonel:

A false Christian is anybody who belongs to another religion eg a Muslim, coming among people in christendom,pretending he is one of them,whereas his heart is in Islam. We have cases like that among early christians the Bible, but we hardly see such these days.
But anybody who is truly a believer,whether he has false assurance or guinuine assurance of whatever in christendom. He can never be classified as a false Christian became he is justified by his Faith not by his works. This tells you that if a Christian brother commit a sin, hold him responsible, not God

An2elect2:
LOL just tell me you are joking and we would have a good laugh together

An2elect2:
It's so sad that you fit the definition of a law keeping Pharisaical Christian.

Why do you want to glory before God by all means? Is it possible to work something yourself and give God the glory? Don't deceive yourself it is not possible!

In as much as the Christian has a responsibility or responsibilities, he is not to rely on his "strength or ability" (which are weaknesses anyway). It is by grace through faith that he must be preserved. This is the SPIRIT-WALKING the Bible is talking of.

Christianity is not a "play your part and God plays His" The Christian must trust in God completely to live or do anything. He cannot do anything including subjecting his body except SOLELY BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. Any other means or addition is WALKING IN THE FLESH.

and in case you have tried letting go of your "strength" to rely on the grace of God and still have no experience of this power over sin, it means it's time to examine yourself to see if Christ is truly inside of you!!!

Because if Christ(the embodiment of grace) is inside of you, you WILL NOT CONTINUE IN SIN.

Galatians 3:1-14
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:for, The just shall live by faith.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

1Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


Ephesians 3:7
Of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

owoleola:
you are right,you can't work and at same time give God the Glory(unless of course you want to false humility). In fact,God tells us not to share His Glory with Him,He isn't greedy,He was not ready to share the work with us also.

An2elect2:
Most times people in reaction to legalistic law keeping Pharisaical Christians (who subtly deny the grace of God and seek to obtain righteousness through the law thereby denying the finished work of Christ on the cross.) make phrases like this: THE CHRISTIAN LIFE IS SIMPLE. CHRIST HAS ACCOMPLISHED EVERYTHING. THE ONLY THING IS SIMPLE FAITH IN THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST. Wheew! Now what's wrong with this? Isn't this what salvation is about?

Yes there isn't anything wrong with Faith in Christ and His finished work. After all we are saved by grace through faith. We are justified by faith. We live by faith etc However there is a big difference between SIMPLE FAITH and SAVING FAITH. and you guessed right, it's SAVING FAITH the Bible is talking of!

Saving faith is simply a faith that is authored by God, comes from God and is perfected by God. It is a faith that conforms us to Christ and through it we learn obedience. This saving faith is not inborn i.e It isn't natural. It does not come by mental persuasion but by (spirit) hearing of the word of God. It is a gift GIVEN WHEN THE MAN IS NOT SEARCHING. We can't prompt God for it. It happens "out of the blue". An unexpected quickening.


Can someone believe in the finished work of Christ and still not be saved? POSSIBLE. There are many with such faith but have no experience of the new life. They walk about trusting in their faith in the finished work ~~faith in faith~~ (*shudders*)
It is because of such, that many legalistic law keeping Christians question Christ's grace.


A man says he believes in the finished work of Christ and he believes salvation is by grace. But this man has not the substance of the hope he professes. There was never a time he saw how sinful he was, mourned over his sins and had a changed mind and will. This man has never been brought to his knees before a Holy God.

Deception is very real. And if any man thinks he is above deception, he has not known anything. That's why we are to prayerfully examine ourselves in the light of the scriptures. Salvation isn't something you "decide to have" Faith isn't something you can will.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

Pchinak:


It's alright. Just so you know, there's nothing wrong with pointing someone to any scripture passage, same way there's nothing wrong in asking someone politely to explain his or herself before drawing inference. I'll try my best to remind myself that threads created by you are not up for discussions next time.

Amberon11:
Just know you are on point. These people are quick to tag others "hypocritical Pharisees" even when all you did was give them scriptures. It has now become a part of them. They cherry pick verses to believe and those to discard.