Femolacaster:

Some people try to interpret Ooni too in different forms like
Oluwoni, owoni etc

So what's the meaning of Oluwoni or Owoni?

Activa:

So what's the meaning of Oluwoni or Owoni?

ANYBODY CAN GIVE ANY MEANING TO IT.

Oduduwa met some people in ife.

juman:
Oduduwa met some people in ife.

He met Obatala the Oba Igbo, the Obi Osere Igbo. Both Oduduwa and the Obatalas were great leaders of thrir people. But the time is passed to undo Oduduwa's foundation in Yoruba land. It can no longer be undone, and Ooni is a pillar of that foundation.

igbodefender:
He met Obatala the Oba Igbo, the Obi Osere Igbo. Both Oduduwa and the Obatalas were great leaders of thrir people. But the time is passed to undo Oduduwa's foundation in Yoruba land. It can no longer be undone, and Ooni is a pillar of that foundation.

I want to learn:
In that sense one can say alaafin is above ooni.

somehow:
Someone did already. He said how can a tribe that lived mostly on boats (water) claim to own any land?

I'm sorry for the delay.
Don't trivialise this issue. The Ijaws did not come out of water, they were on land before they adapted to coastal environment, which is part of evolution. They migrated to where they are, and are amongst the earliest there.

The fable of one Ekalerderhan wandering through the bush and single handedly conquering Ife is as laughable as someone descending from heaven with a chain. They are all lies, at best mythology. The funny thing is we're so ignorant in this part of the world that even ilitratrates see themselves as philosophers.

The fable of someone coming from the sky/heaven to rule over a people is common all over sub-Saharan africa:
1) The Ilaje people (Ugbo) have a preOduduwa history of Ajanoron (Ajalorun) coming from heaven, whose son was Oromakin the first ruler of Ugbo.
2)Igala have a mythology of a founder who came from heaven.
3)The Binis told the world how God came to the first heaven, had three children, one one of which is Olokun who bore the first Ogiso (ruler from the sky)
4)Yorubas believe Oduduwa came from heaven not just to rule Ife but to actually create the world.
There are so many similar stories across Africa, yet we're here making foolish arguments without seeing that the same story is being told in different versions.

If we leave mythology, Yoruba claim Oduduwa came from the East(Arabia), the Binis claim they came from Egypt(Sudan and Egypt were a single kingdom in the past). The people of Borgu claim the kingdom founder came from the East(maybe it's another Bazuaye who wandered through the bush and came out in Borgu and conquered the land )

The Ekalerdahan theory is no more than another lie. The Binis might have come from Sudan, they were once part of the Yoruboid group. Their journey did not start in Sudan/Egypt but southern Africa, from where they moved to Congo before anywhere else, from Congo some moved to Sudan(even before Egypt, while some journeyed to the confluence area of river Niger. They were later joined by a party from Sudan. From the river Niger confluence, many separation. took place. The Igbos crossed to Eastern part of modern Nigeria. The Binis continued there southward journey to where they named Igodomigodo( that's why Jacob Egarevba wrote that the earliest Bini people came from Nupe). The Igala separated. The Yoruba and Nupe remained in that environment and named the place Ile Ife and Nyuife respectively according to the separation of languages taking place. Old Ife was destroyed by flood and the people migrated to the present site of Ife while the other people shifted but still within the river Niger environs and retain the name Nyuife which eventually metamorphosed into Nupe.

The Oduduwa group came thousands of years later together. He led a a group of people on migrations, passing through Sudan(or possibly they came from Sudan) to Nupeland where some members of his group founded Borgu kingdom. Oduduwa moved to second Ife which had been established a long time before then. Everything suggests it was a military conquest especially if you take the Ugbo/Moremi events into cognizance.

Notwithstanding, all these people were one and same at different times in history. However, Yoruba has evolved into a bigger nation with global relevance with much ascendancy over it's contemporaries of past centuries.

I am not the one you should direct this to, only pointed out what someone said. You can scroll up so that you can engage him properly.

fatiaforreal:

I'm sorry for the delay.
Don't trivialise this issue. The Ijaws did not come out of water, they were on land before they adapted to coastal environment, which is part of evolution. They migrated to where they are, and are amongst the earliest there.

The fable of one Ekalerderhan wandering through the bush and single handedly conquering Ife is as laughable as someone descending from heaven with a chain. They are all lies, at best mythology. The funny thing is we're so ignorant in this part of the world that even ilitratrates see themselves as philosophers.

The fable of someone coming from the sky/heaven to rule over a people is common all over sub-Saharan africa:
1) The Ilaje people (Ugbo) have a preOduduwa history of Ajanoron (Ajalorun) coming from heaven, whose son was Oromakin the first ruler of Ugbo.
2)Igala have a mythology of a founder who came from heaven.
3)The Binis told the world how God came to the first heaven, had three children, one one of which is Olokun who bore the first Ogiso (ruler from the sky)
4)Yorubas believe Oduduwa came from heaven not just to rule Ife but to actually create the world.
There are so many similar stories across Africa, yet we're here making foolish arguments without seeing that the same story is being told in different versions.

If we leave mythology, Yoruba claim Oduduwa came from the East(Arabia), the Binis claim they came from Egypt(Sudan and Egypt were a single kingdom in the past). The people of Borgu claim the kingdom founder came from the East(maybe it's another Bazuaye who wandered through the bush and came out in Borgu and conquered the land )

The Ekalerdahan theory is no more than another lie. The Binis might have come from Sudan, they were once part of the Yoruboid group. Their journey did not start in Sudan/Egypt but southern Africa, from where they moved to Congo before anywhere else, from Congo some moved to Sudan(even before Egypt, while some journeyed to the confluence area of river Niger. They were later joined by a party from Sudan. From the river Niger confluence, many separation. took place. The Igbos crossed to Eastern part of modern Nigeria. The Binis continued there southward journey to where they named Igodomigodo( that's why Jacob Egarevba wrote that the earliest Bini people came from Nupe). The Igala separated. The Yoruba and Nupe remained in that environment and named the place Ile Ife and Nyuife respectively according to the separation of languages taking place. Old Ife was destroyed by flood and the people migrated to the present site of Ife while the other people shifted but still within the river Niger environs and retain the name Nyuife which eventually metamorphosed into Nupe.

The Oduduwa group came thousands of years later together. He led a a group of people on migrations, passing through Sudan(or possibly they came from Sudan) to Nupeland where some members of his group founded Borgu kingdom. Oduduwa moved to second Ife which had been established a long time before then. Everything suggests it was a military conquest especially if you take the Ugbo/Moremi events into cognizance.

Notwithstanding, all these people were one and same at different times in history. However, Yoruba has evolved into a bigger nation with global relevance with much ascendancy over it's contemporaries of past centuries.

juman:


I want to learn:
In that sense one can say alaafin is above ooni.

Sorry for the delay.

My favourite analogy for comparing the positions of the Ooni and Alaafin is the Holy Roman Empire that existed in Europe some centuries ago.

In that empire, you had 2 principal monarchs: the Holy Roman Emperor and the Pope. The Emperor was the political head while the Pope was the spiritual head of the empire.

The Emperor who was normally a German King had a larger army compared to the Roman army of the Pope (the pope also doubled as monarch of Rome), but he the Emperor had to be crowned by the Pope.

In a nutshell the Ooni is important because he represents the Source of Yoruba civilization (Ife), but the Alaafin is the son of Oduduwa who commanded the great Oyo Empire. Ooni is more of a spiritual office while Alaafn is more of a political office. My 10 cents on the question.

somehow:
I am not the one you should direct this to, only pointed out what someone said. You can scroll up so that you can engage him properly.

You're right. It was meant to be a general response. Sorry about that.

somehow:
I am not the one you should direct this to, only pointed out what someone said. You can scroll up so that you can engage him properly.

Sorry about. It's actually a general response.

Femolacaster:

ANYBODY CAN GIVE ANY MEANING TO IT.

The attitude you have adopted won't further the argument.

I became interested and thought you had something superior to say when you referred to some people as 'fools'. Alas, you've not provided anything credible, apart from circular reasoning, to further your argument.

juman:


I want to learn:
In that sense one can say alaafin is above ooni.

No we can't use those comparisons. The Ooni is the spiritual leader of all Yoruba race. The Alaafin was a political ruler of the Oyo empire which only encompassed some Yoruba. In the past, the Egba, Yewa, Oyo, Igbomina etc. were under the rule of Alaafin. However there was a lot of revolts by many of these groups against the political hegemony of Oyo. In actuality, Ijebu, Ekiti, Ijesha, Ife etc were not under the direct rule of the Alaafin. The Alaafin only directly controlled some Yoruba. Other Yoruba groups had independent kingdoms like the Ijesha or Ijebu for example, although Alaafin's influence on cannot be underestimated. The role of Ooni has always been very important.

[quote author=Activa post=56589128]

The attitude you have adopted won't further the argument.

I became interested and thought you had something superior to say when you referred to some people as 'fools'. Alas, you've not provided anything credible, apart from circular reasoning, to further your argument. [/quote

Which proof do you want from me? If that is your own belief about the Ooni title, stick with that, I owe nobody an apology. Before all these controversial history were documented, they were passed orally from generation to generation. On the course of doing this, there is none that hasn't been diluted in one way on the other. I called them fools because its always some sections of the Oyo part( people speaking Oyo dialect which I am part of) that always give these meanings to the title due to the way it was documented by Rev Samuel Johnson.

Thanks to 9jakool and igbodefender for the explanation.

On the origin of yoruba people no one can take it away from ugbo people, they are part of those earliest yoruba people.

No problem bro

fatiaforreal:

You're right. It was meant to be a general response. Sorry about that.

[quote author=Femolacaster post=56592669][/quote]

In the academic world there is a standard process to debunk the works of others. You're not doing that at all.

You're merely casting aspersions and disparaging others without a strong basis or providing another alternative rendition or sources.

Later you moved into speculation and 'I don't care' stance.

If you have a strong opinion on an issue, there's is no gainsaying that you must have strong reasons to support the opinion. But so far, I've not seen or read any from you.

Activa:


In the academic world there is a standard process to debunk the works of others. You're not doing that at all.

You're merely casting aspersions and disparaging others without a strong basis or providing another alternative rendition or sources.

Later you moved into speculation and 'I don't care' stance.

If you have a strong opinion on an issue, there's is no gainsaying that you must have strong reasons to support the opinion. But so far, I've not seen or read any from you.

I don't really understand you, some of the things u put up negates my own stand and many historians , though some of them haven't done too well to clear air on this issue.
Whether academic or non-academic work, I have made my own stand. And as I have told u earlier, stick with what u know.
And I have said earlier, I owe nobody an apology.
Bye for now, and enjoy your day!

Femolacaster:

Whether academic or non-academic work, I have made my own stand.

The people you referred to as "fools" equally made their own stand even on a stronger premise that you who insulted them. Isn't this funny?

Femolacaster:
I don't really understand you, some of the things u put up negates my own stand and many historians , though some of them haven't done too well to clear air on this issue.

What a bundle of contradiction.

Femolacaster:
And as I have told u earlier, stick with what u know.
And I have said earlier, I owe nobody an apology.
Bye for now, and enjoy your day!

There an acceptable way to pass across what you know.

You may not owe anybody an apology for sticking with what you know, but stop insulting others for sticking to theirs even after showing and publishing how they arrived at their own position. It's not good to arbitrarily discard others' work and insult them in addition.

Activa:


The people you referred to as "fools" equally made their own stand even on a stronger premise that you who insulted them. Isn't this funny?




What a bundle of contradiction.

And how I have contradicted myself?
Check all my post, what I have been hammering on is that ; OUTSIDERS CAN NEVER TELL IFE HISTORY MORE THAN THE IFES. Shikena!!!!

fatiaforreal:

I'm sorry for the delay.
Don't trivialise this issue. The Ijaws did not come out of water, they were on land before they adapted to coastal environment, which is part of evolution. They migrated to where they are, and are amongst the earliest there.

The fable of one Ekalerderhan wandering through the bush and single handedly conquering Ife is as laughable as someone descending from heaven with a chain. They are all lies, at best mythology. The funny thing is we're so ignorant in this part of the world that even ilitratrates see themselves as philosophers.

The fable of someone coming from the sky/heaven to rule over a people is common all over sub-Saharan africa:
1) The Ilaje people (Ugbo) have a preOduduwa history of Ajanoron (Ajalorun) coming from heaven, whose son was Oromakin the first ruler of Ugbo.
2)Igala have a mythology of a founder who came from heaven.
3)The Binis told the world how God came to the first heaven, had three children, one one of which is Olokun who bore the first Ogiso (ruler from the sky)
4)Yorubas believe Oduduwa came from heaven not just to rule Ife but to actually create the world.
There are so many similar stories across Africa, yet we're here making foolish arguments without seeing that the same story is being told in different versions.

If we leave mythology, Yoruba claim Oduduwa came from the East(Arabia), the Binis claim they came from Egypt(Sudan and Egypt were a single kingdom in the past). The people of Borgu claim the kingdom founder came from the East(maybe it's another Bazuaye who wandered through the bush and came out in Borgu and conquered the land )

The Ekalerdahan theory is no more than another lie. The Binis might have come from Sudan, they were once part of the Yoruboid group. Their journey did not start in Sudan/Egypt but southern Africa, from where they moved to Congo before anywhere else, from Congo some moved to Sudan(even before Egypt, while some journeyed to the confluence area of river Niger. They were later joined by a party from Sudan. From the river Niger confluence, many separation. took place. The Igbos crossed to Eastern part of modern Nigeria. The Binis continued there southward journey to where they named Igodomigodo( that's why Jacob Egarevba wrote that the earliest Bini people came from Nupe). The Igala separated. The Yoruba and Nupe remained in that environment and named the place Ile Ife and Nyuife respectively according to the separation of languages taking place. Old Ife was destroyed by flood and the people migrated to the present site of Ife while the other people shifted but still within the river Niger environs and retain the name Nyuife which eventually metamorphosed into Nupe.

The Oduduwa group came thousands of years later together. He led a a group of people on migrations, passing through Sudan(or possibly they came from Sudan) to Nupeland where some members of his group founded Borgu kingdom. Oduduwa moved to second Ife which had been established a long time before then. Everything suggests it was a military conquest especially if you take the Ugbo/Moremi events into cognizance.

Notwithstanding, all these people were one and same at different times in history. However, Yoruba has evolved into a bigger nation with global relevance with much ascendancy over it's contemporaries of past centuries.

I do appreciate your scholarly opinion on the name christened to the man called ODUDUA. However, that is not the man's name but where he originated from. In truth, he came with multitude when there was destruction of the Lower part of Egypt because of using ram as a sacrifices. That is where Adimula and his group came from. The man who was referred to as Odua is the descendant of ,Jehoahaz , brother of Eliakim, whose father was Josiah (King of Judah) who was killed at Meggido (July–August) to Elul (August–September) of 609 BC. Josiah was therefore killed in the month of Tammuz, 609 BC. The Progenitor and ancestor of Yoruba called Odu'a, whose real name wasn't Odu'a but the place of their origin WAS O'JUDUA.

If interested, you can read more on the king of Judah, that was killed by Son of WAHIBRE(KING OF EGYPT) called
Pharaoh Necho II and he had Eliakim become the king while was taken into Egyptian captivity in Egypt with his family until he died many years after. Although, before
Jehoahaz ,whose birth name was pronounced as Shallum. JOSIA was the only king killed before his son who was first made king after his father's death was deposed and taken to Egypt. While his older brother with two years difference Eliakim was made king of Judah.


Here, you will see places connected to Yoruba via DNA TRACES, YOU WILL SEE WHERE MOUNT SINAI is. Perhaps, you will see little or more if you want to do self research.

Femolacaster:
And how I have contradicted myself?
Check all my post, what I have been hammering on is that ; OUTSIDERS CAN NEVER TELL IFE HISTORY MORE THAN THE IFES. Shikena!!!!

What is the Ife version? This is a simple question.

On matters concerning Ife, you should not see other Yoruba groups who left from the same Ife as outsiders.

The contradiction was when you stated that the version I put up negated your stand and other historians but they have not done enough to disprove it. So on what basis are you holding to it? Does this not simply amount to just being unnecessarily stubborn and arrogance?

Activa:


What is the Ife version? This is a simple question.

On matters concerning Ife, you should not see other Yoruba groups who left from the same Ife as outsiders.

The contradiction was when you stated that the version I put up negated your stand and other historians but they have not done enough to disprove it. So on what basis are you holding to it? Does this not simply amount to just being unnecessarily stubborn and arrogance?

Whatever u can call it, we have given ourselves enough audience.
Pls don't quote me again.