goodguy:

Allonym, as a 'Christian', do you pray?

Yes

Your next question is, well, do you get a response. Sure, I could say I get a response, but someone could easily show that to be my interpretation of events following my prayer.

I think Nnenna1 said it best in another thread - having "faith" is like being in love. There is no real concrete way to describe it. You cannot really "prove" it to someone. (She didn't add this, but you can easily extrapolate And other people in the same situation as you can readily understand your situation. Other christians may be able to understand my unexplainable belief in God; however, Nferyn may not. I however am in a position where I can understand both sides (or rather, the many sides to this coin).

Allonym, given your responses i'd never have thot u were a Christian

prettyH:

Allonym, given your responses i'd never have thot u were a Christian

I've never thought being Christian meant that I should banish all possible doubt or questions I'd have concerning the veracity of the religion. Since Christianity (or at least my denomination/branch/whatever) encourages me to study myself, I don't see contradictions between my statements and my faith.

I see.

allonym:

I've never thought being Christian meant that I should banish all possible doubt or questions I'd have concerning the veracity of the religion. Since Christianity (or at least my denomination/branch/whatever) encourages me to study myself, I don't see contradictions between my statements and my faith.

Im sorry to disagree with your last statement allonym, before i agree that there are no contradictions between your statements and your faith, i need to ask; what is your faith? what do you believe in? being a christian is a blanket to cover a lot of things, what is your faith my allonym?

nicetohave:

I'm sorry to disagree with your last statement allonym, before i agree that there are no contradictions between your statements and your faith, i need to ask; what is your faith? what do you believe in? being a christian is a blanket to cover a lot of things, what is your faith my allonym?

Umm, US Baptist? Is that what you're asking?

allonym:

Umm, US Baptist? Is that what you're asking?

what/who you believe in? not your church......

as to your quest for proof of the testimonies i lay claim to, remember i do not lay claim to it being done through me, but i lay claim to it having witnessed it, you will have to remember that patients records are confidential.......it cannot be made public via any other means than priviledged viewing of the records in the hospital, meaning you will have to visit the facility where the records are and get a priviledged access to it, but i'll tell you this;

The man healed of blindness from glaucoma was a patient at UCH, ibadan where i trained, he walked into one of our teaching sessions and confronted Dr. Ajaiyeoba my consultant Ophthalmologist, who had proclaimed him clinically blind.........he was reexamined, and corroborated by other ophthalmologists, the man can see!

The case of the man with the advanced renal cell carcinoma occured where i work here in trinidad, he was sent home because he couldnt tolerate the rigors of anesthesia because he had a flu and other lung pathology (from metastasis) making him unfit for aneasthesia at the moment, he was reshceduled, he came back for the surgery two months later and a repeat pathology report showed no trace of the cancer, he now walks about a healthy man the streets of trinidad.

Their testimonies? the man healed of glaucoma claimed he attended a crusade and was prayed for by an evangelist (i wont mention the name)

The man healed of renal cell carcinoma never went to be prayed for, he said every sunday after he was diagnosed he went to church with a positive faith to survive it, he not only did so but invite other cancer patients along to church every time, he was never prayed for but he kept believing God, he never knew he was even healed................the pathologists report confirmed it,he was sent home to be reexamined in a year (now you dont send home a man with advanced renal carcinoma to be reexamined in a year unless he no longer has cancer!) his health has since been rejuvinated.

Now my statements cant be proven here because i cant make a patients note available on the internet but they are true, those ones i witnessed, million others are present..............what are we doubting here? the fact that these men were healed or the fact that it is not medicine that healed them ?(because it has written them off) who then did it? well i submit it is my God of default, he has been doing it for ages and he does it even as i write these words.

nferyn:

Hi Nicetohave, let us indeed not lower ourselves to a shouting contest, I appreciate you too much for that. I will once more answer your objections to the best of my abilities (and obviously I too make typing mistakes )

nferyn it is called a burning passion for what you believe in, not a shouting contest, please dont crack me up

nferyn:

Could you restate your main point, I'm obviosly missing it. What I was trying to say is that it does not make sense to use unsuccessful transplants over the species boundaries as evidence against common descent.

Correct, because even it is unsuccessful among animals of same species..............you have an argument here, so id just retrieve that.

nferyn:

The main issue here is that what you consider knowledge is very different from what I consider knowledge.
So you say, without conclusive, rational evidence.

mhhhmmmm.

i am afraid nferyn i cant really give you a better or rational evidence right now i have exhausted myself, when you meet God and you believe in him im sure you might be a better condidate at giving evidence of his existence, i never sunk to the state of being an atheist and if you do come out of this state im sure you'd be a better person at giving evidence to the existence of God.

The testimonies i gave you may chose to ignore if you want, but i know they happened because i witnessed it. But then people write of their healings everyday even on the internet, yet we say they make it up, others say they witnessed it we say it is a calculated deciet that cant be substantiated...........but then if God does not heal a single man again supernaturally he still exists and he still is God whom we have to give account of how we spent our lives here on earth.

PREACH ON BROTHER :

I think one problem that keeps coming up in discussions here is this:

Arguments are being made based on the assumption that your side is correct.

For example, arguing that God exists because he created the world does not further your argument. Or saying that I will know God exists once he comes to me in a dream doesn't really help either.

nicetohave:

what/who you believe in? not your church......

as to your quest for proof of the testimonies i lay claim to, remember i do not lay claim to it being done through me, but i lay claim to it having witnessed it, you will have to remember that patients records are confidential.it cannot be made public via any other means than priviledged viewing of the records in the hospital, meaning you will have to visit the facility where the records are and get a priviledged access to it, but i'll tell you this;

The man healed of blindness from glaucoma was a patient at UCH, ibadan where i trained, he walked into one of our teaching sessions and confronted Dr. Ajaiyeoba my consultant Ophthalmologist, who had proclaimed him clinically blind.........he was reexamined, and corroborated by other ophthalmologists, the man can see!

The case of the man with the advanced renal cell carcinoma occured where i work here in trinidad, he was sent home because he couldnt tolerate the rigors of anesthesia because he had a flu and other lung pathology (from metastasis) making him unfit for aneasthesia at the moment, he was reshceduled, he came back for the surgery two months later and a repeat pathology report showed no trace of the cancer, he now walks about a healthy man the streets of trinidad.

Their testimonies? the man healed of glaucoma claimed he attended a crusade and was prayed for by an evangelist (i wont mention the name)

The man healed of renal cell carcinoma never went to be prayed for, he said every sunday after he was diagnosed he went to church with a positive faith to survive it, he not only did so but invite other cancer patients along to church every time, he was never prayed for but he kept believing God, he never knew he was even healed................the pathologists report confirmed it,he was sent home to be reexamined in a year (now you don't send home a man with advanced renal carcinoma to be reexamined in a year unless he no longer has cancer!) his health has since been rejuvinated.

Now my statements can't be proven here because i can't make a patients note available on the internet but they are true, those ones i witnessed, million others are present..............what are we doubting here? the fact that these men were healed or the fact that it is not medicine that healed them ?(because it has written them off) who then did it? well i submit it is my God of default, he has been doing it for ages and he does it even as i write these words.

I have the same problem with Get Rich if you buy my book and follow my method things that pop up on various tv shows. The "people" they show who supposedly benefitted, you can never track them down. No real names or locations are given. They're like Ptomkin villages. (I wonder if you've heard of these Nferyn?) I'd think if I had such a miraculous recovery, I'd want lots of people to know without any shadow of a doubt. The only ppl who seem to make any such effort are those whose miracle cures were verified and recorded by the Vatican.

Allonym,

This should help you understand if you are actually a christain or not. Because one is not a christain just because he says so.

Hebrews 4
   1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

   2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
   3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

   4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

   5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

   6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

   7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
   8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

   9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

  10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

   11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
   12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

We who have belived have found our rest in him and in His Word.

As for your comments about beneficiaries of miracles, i actually feel pity for you. Because i percieve that in the place where you worship, the miraculous pesence of God is not manifested the way it should. If it were, you wouldnt make such staements because you will have more than enough living proofs of God's miracle working power. I have seen the lame walk, the blind see, the deaf hear and the dumb speak before my very eyes.

The Vatican will have too much on their hands if we were to report to them for verification.

In our healing meetings for instance, the healing lines are sooo long, filled with testifiers; we have never been able to take all the testimonies. In fact, while the testiomonies are being taken, miracles continue to happen all around in the congregation with thunderous shouts of praise here and there.

If i may ask, how many of those whom Jesus healed went to Pilate or to the high priest to report their healing. They rather followed Jesus.

The few times the priests and teachers of the law saw these testifiers or witnessed these miracles, they were filled with envy and indignation and saught all the more to stop them from happening.

Did you say you can never track them down?

Dear, If Jesus is in the congregation where you worship, you'd find them all over the place!

I really do not want to respond to this thread but I must ask this question:

"donnie":

Hebrews 4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

Who said this? I don't know who is Hebrew?. Don't tell me he is a man inspired by God. God now inspires lots of people!...

I dont want to sound funny or ridiculous here sbucareer but your question shows you know nada about what youre engaging in an argument on, hebrew is not a person, it is paul's epistle to the hebrews, and why shouldnt God inspire a lot of people.

"nicetohave":

I don't want to sound funny or ridiculous here sbucareer but your question shows you know nada about what youre engaging in an argument on, hebrew is not a person, it is paul's epistle to the hebrews, and why shouldnt God inspire a lot of people.

I know Hebrew, a chapter in the bible after Philippians. I excepted this reply momen..

A Herbews is, "the letter to the Hebrews was written to a group of Christians who, faced with increasing opposition, where in danger of abandoning the christiant faith. The writer encourages them in their faith primarily by showing that jesus christ is true and final revelation of God."

Who where these group of christians and who wrote the letter? That was my question? I don't think the orignal author of the letter to the people of Hebrew was paul monmen. I can't prove it yet but I don't think he was the one.

My argument is then, these "group of people and author" who are they? Do they have Two heads? Are thy aliens? That is my point, God created every man equal, but some christians says that these "author" are inspired by God since God himself did NOT write the bible nor his son jesus christ.

I can come tomorrow and write a letter to Nigeria about the opposition there are faced, would that make me a saint?

In case you think I don't know what is Hebrew in modern days, here it is:

"The Modern Hebrew language is a Semitic language of the Afro-Asiatic language family. The core of the Hebrew Bible, the Torah (which Christianity and Judaism traditionally hold to have been first recorded in the time of Moses 3,300 years ago), is written in (Biblical) Classical Hebrew. Jews have always called it the Lashon ha-Kodesh ("The Sacred Language" as the scriptures written in this language were considered sacred."

Reference
================
1. http://www.georgefox.edu/academics/undergrad/departments/religion/students/glossary.html

Leave language alone for awhile!
You are the Image and Likeness of God!
Your name is a name of God too, but it's for you alone until you can make it available to everyone. That's if you can grow up to be godlike in this lifetime! You'll see how you have lived before and will live again until you become godlike in a lifetime. It is the role of religion.
Music is the food of love and God is love. Sing your Song of God, and you'll discover more how you are God's child! And eventually discover your guardian angel who'll lead you onward home to be godlike!

lifexpress:

Leave language alone for awhile!
You are the Image and Likeness of God!
Your name is a name of God too, but it's for you alone until you can make it available to everyone. That's if you can grow up to be godlike in this lifetime! You'll see how you have lived before and will live again until you become godlike in a lifetime. It is the role of religion.
Music is the food of love and God is love. Sing your Song of God, and you'll discover more how you are God's child! And eventually discover your guardian angel who'll lead you onward home to be godlike!

I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish here. If you believe in God, define what God is and explain what is evidence of his existence

we do not just cease to exist after death..even if you do not believe in heaven or hell or God. just because you might not believe in something, it doesn't mean it does not exist. God, who is merciful and compassionate, will judge us all on the last day. one way or another God will reveal Himself to you sometime in your life. it is your choice to welcome Him into your life or not.

@ mosaic2
Please do bring some evidence of his existence

what is the evidence of our existence? if we say that there is no God..then who created us? why do we exist? God can prove Himself and His existence to each and every one of us if we only just take the time to ask Him..He will reveal Himself to you in a way that no one else can. the best way that I could convince you that there is in fact a God is by all the miracles of the world and of life. Only God can change the heart of a person who is so full of sin and who is a murderer and a drug abuser and an athiest--and this has happened. Only God can save the life of a person whom all doctors claimed dead because of a horrible disease that is fatal and deadly--and yet it has happened..and not by chance or coincidence, but by miracles sent by God. Also, the Holy Bible is evidence that God exists.

How exactly is the 'Holy Bible' proof that God exists

Wasn't it written by man

mosaic2:

what is the evidence of our existence? if we say that there is no God..then who created us? why do we exist?

Maybe we created ourselves. If time is circular, then by traveling far enough into the future, we'd end up in the past and thus could "create" ourselves. Or, we could just travel back in time and do the same thing. As for why we exist. . . well, if we never created ourselves, we wouldn't exists, so to exist, we created ourselves. . simple huh? If you have a hard time following that, answer: Why did God create us? I mean, if God is so awesome and powerful, why does he need crap like us to worship him or for him to play with. Wouldn't our lives be beyond God's interest. I mean, why would anything as power as God even care about us? It doesn't really make sense.

mosaic2:

God can prove Himself and His existence to each and every one of us if we only just take the time to ask Him..He will reveal Himself to you in a way that no one else can.

And what happens when you ask and you get no reply? Or you die without getting one? Would that mean God didn't exist for you and so you would've been better off living like God didn't?

mosaic2:

the best way that I could convince you that there is in fact a God is by all the miracles of the world and of life. Only God can change the heart of a person who is so full of sin and who is a murderer and a drug abuser and an athiest--and this has happened. Only God can save the life of a person whom all doctors claimed dead because of a horrible disease that is fatal and deadly--and yet it has happened..and not by chance or coincidence, but by miracles sent by God. Also, the Holy Bible is evidence that God exists.

So, if a negotiator convinces some maniac not to kill his 4 month old baby with a shotgun, it was really God? If so, why do we need negotiators in the first place? (Negotiator as in those who work for swat teams). A more general question is, why do we need any profession, money, jobs, etc? Couldn't God just feed us, clothe us, house us, etc? Wouldn't that be good by giving us everything we want/need? That way ppl don't have to resort to bad actions to satisfy their desires?

exu:

How exactly is the 'Holy Bible' proof that God exists

Wasn't it written by man

the Bible was written by man, who was inspired by the Holy Spirit..it's not just stuff that they came up with off the top of their heads. that's why even though the Bible was written over a long period of time and by many authors, all the prophecies made are the same throughout and do not contradict one other

allonym:

Maybe we created ourselves. If time is circular, then by traveling far enough into the future, we'the end up in the past and thus could "create" ourselves. Or, we could just travel back in time and do the same thing. As for why we exist. . . well, if we never created ourselves, we wouldn't exists, so to exist, we created ourselves. . simple huh?

no not simple..I'm not really following what you mean. how can we create ourselves..travelling into the future??

allonym:

And what happens when you ask and you get no reply? Or you die without getting one? Would that mean God didn't exist for you and so you would've been better off living like God didn't?

we all get replies if we believe enough and have faith--we just have to wait for the right time. we usually think all hope is gone and that God is not listening to us when we ask for something and we don't get it, but that's only because we don't know what He knows, because our knowledge is so limited, so what we think of as being the right place and time for a sign or an answer might not be the right time at all.

The catholic church is the only church founded by the  Lord Jesus Christ and only in her can you find Truth. The bible is not big enough to contain all truth but merely used as an instrument of salvation. The church has a greater authority to teach and he who believes her will find salvation.
If you do not believe in God you will definitely go to hell. Purgatory is real and biblical for "even many will be saved through fire" but not all will need to pass through purgatory.
The church has a greater authority to teach than the bible which was produced by her. The church teaches not only by sacred scripture but also by sacred tradition. Not that all outside the catholic church are condemned but God has a way of saving them like he saved the israelites while they were outside the promised land.

felucci:

The catholic church is the only church founded by the Lord Jesus Christ and only in her can you find Truth. The bible is not big enough to contain all truth but merely used as an instrument of salvation. The church has a greater authority to teach and he who believes her will find salvation.
If you do not believe in God you will definitely go to hell. Purgatory is real and biblical for "even many will be saved through fire" but not all will need to pass through purgatory.
The church has a greater authority to teach than the bible which was produced by her. The church teaches not only by sacred scripture but also by sacred tradition. Not that all outside the catholic church are condemned but God has a way of saving them like he saved the israelites while they were outside the promised land.

http://www.multidox.net

The catholic church was not founded by Jesus. I don't remember anything about Jesus instituting someone to be a pope. Jesus didn't even claim himself to be God's voice on earth. Don't know how exactly a human being decided they could make that claim. While history seems to indicate that Peter was the first pope, that doesn't make sense given that it was never mentioned in the bible. Peter though was seen as a leader of the early church, so if what is meant is that what we now recognize as pope started with a tradition of having groups of men act as supreme leaders of the church / defenders of the faith, etc, then I could understand.

Undoubtedly, the catholic church was NOT founded by Jesus. To say that would be to also say all past, present, and future denominations of christianity were founded by Jesus.

The Bible itself bears witness that Jesus founded the universal church and with a pope(latin word for father figure) as head too when he said to the first pope - Peter, "you are a rock and on this rock i will build my church."
From Peter to the present pope Benedict there has been about 268 popes of church heads and we can trace our origin from the time of that apostle.

Jesus, founded the  church upon the rock (talking about himself) and not upon peter.

Jesus founded the catholic (universal) church but not the Roman cathoilc church. The church in Jerusalem was not the Roman catholic Church.

If you study the book of Acts properly you will discover that James, the brother of jesus, was the pastor of the church in Jerusalem and not Peter.

I can show you that from the scriptures if you care.

Talking about Jesus 'claiming to be the voice of God'. He is not Just claiming to speak for God, He is Himself the Word of God according to the scriptures.

"in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God".

felucci:

Purgatory is real and biblical for "even many will be saved through fire" but not all will need to pass through purgatory.

Purgatory is not real. where in the Bible does it mention anything about purgatory? There is only heaven and hell...paradise and hades..

Im sorry to ask this question Kaylala but how old are you? _{you can PM me if you need more privacy}

Im just kidding with you and i honestly dont expect you to answer...................

i was just surprised that you said "your reverend father and your cathecist told you that" i think that is a not too good reason to believe something having not searched to establish the validity of the information you are given yourself.