This is really chilling !

The kinda stuff you read in novels


The assasination of a palestinian activist !


http://video.gulfnews.com/services/player/bcpid4267205001?bctid=66672644001

Some people really need to learn to see a bigger picture and not take sides or allow emotions to run through in a debate.

Jairzinho:


The assasination of a palestinian activist !

I suppose even though he was behind the killings of IDF men in the 1980s and behind several coordinated attacks make him an "activist" in your eyes? Please let us call a spade, a spade! At best he is a killer just like those who killed him. The use of wrong words in a sensitive debate can have severe outcome. Just ask those who work as negotiators etc.

Jairzinho:

This is really chilling !

The kinda stuff you read in novels


The assasination of a palestinian activist !


http://video.gulfnews.com/services/player/bcpid4267205001?bctid=66672644001

He is a murderer and a terrorist. Stop glorifying it with false titles.

fantastic! It felt like reading a crime novel . . . MOSSAD deserve a pat on the back.

well, if the story is anything to go by, then this type of thing is actually quite common.

People being monitored and trailed everywhere, tagged, etc.


Its not limited to Isreal, Palestine or whatever.

It happens everywhere and increasingly so these days.

As it is, its quite easy to put the rap on Isreal but who knows who these people are, really. They could be copying MOSSAD tactics.

This is the age of information technology- it's made it easier to stalk people.

Anyone can be trailed and monitored. . . .
As we speak, Tilapia is getting monitored. .  .Any wrong move, can be dangerous!

Palestininan activist is called a terrorist

Shimon Perez is called a peacemaker

Ariel sharon would be called a statesman

What a world we live in

ElRazur:

Some people really need to learn to see a bigger picture and not take sides or allow emotions to run through in a debate.
I suppose even though he was behind the killings of IDF men in the 1980s and behind several coordinated attacks make him an "activist" in your eyes? Please let us call a spade, a spade! At best he is a killer just like those who killed him. The use of wrong words in a sensitive debate can have severe outcome. Just ask those who work as negotiators etc.

Someone once said " War is the terrorism of the rich on the poor  and terror is the war of the poor on the rich" 
Ponder on that my friend. We are always quick to accuse people of not 'seeing the bigger picture' while we all have our own perspectives & opinion on these issues (hypocrisy?  )

davidylan:

He is a murderer and a terrorist. Stop glorifying it with false titles.

David, you see I used to be as pro-Israel as they come.

I've  always taken my christian faith seriously  right from secondary school . ,  . . . . . . . . .however, ever since I moved to the middle east, I have had to look at the 'bigger picture' as Elrazur has said.

Over the last 10 months I have  had the privilege of visiting  (officially) Dubai, Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi, Kuwait, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Abu Dhabi& Turkey.

On the Palestinian issue:

Do you know majority of Palestinians live in refugee camps in Syria, Jordan,Lebanon, Libya? They are mostly denied citizenship in the countries  (many from birth) & discriminated against. They have no country to call their own, tho’ Nigeria  may be corrupt and ineptly run,we still have something to point to that resembles a country !

Currently its easier for a Nigerian to travel and work in Lebanon or Qatar than an Arab Muslim Palestinian(FACT !).
I’m sure you are aware of the fact that almost 20% of all Palestinians are CHRISTIANS? The kind of double whammy  persecution they go through  because of Israeli occupation is unbelievable.

Many  muslims treat them with disdain cos they erroneously perceive America as a 'christian country' hence the Palestinian Christians are to blame for whatever stalemate  currently exists. It gets worse when Israel assassinates or launches attacks on Gaza, W/bank.

So it has got me thinking, why should I blindly support Israel , when my fellow believers in Christ are been persecuted, live in abject squalor, mainly (not entirely) cos of  Israeli govt policies?

Tho’ unrelated to this thread ,the fact remains that Saddam was as secular as they come (some even believe he was a closet atheist).Before the Iraq war, there were 800,000 Christians in Iraq, they broadcasted Easter service on state television, Iraqis inter-married (Sunni,Shia,kurd,Christians). . . now almost 80% of the Christians have fled the country . So Im thinking what is the impact of all these silly policies on Christianity in the Middle East?

I'm only requesting we take a more balanced view of this really complex problem & not be quick to necessarily associate Israel   with good & Palestinians or Arabs with bad !

Learn to separate ISRAELI GOVERNMENT policies from the Jewish religion of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The current political rulers of Israel should at best be analogous to the Pharisees  & Sadducees in the Bible, and remember what  Jesus said of those (Matt 3:7 ;12:34)

Thank you.

On the topic- tho' Im impressed by the way the assasination was carried out,being an avid reader of Ludlum,Forsythe myself. . .I don't thnk its right . Because where will it all end? You kill them ,they kill you . . .and back & forth it goes.

The Mandela approach best exemplifies the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Lagosboy:

Palestininan activist is called a terrorist

Shimon Perez is called a peacemaker

Ariel sharon would be called a statesman

What a world we live in

He is called a terrorist BECAUSE he is a chief arms dealer for HAMAS (a terrorist organization according to most western nations).
He is called a terrorist BECAUSE he is responsible for kidnapping and murder of Israeli citizens.
Activists do not kill.

Shimon Perez and Ariel Sharon are NOT terrorists, they were GENUINE heads of state. As long as you disgusting hypocrites do not refer to the Chinese premier or President of Russia as a terrorist, Sharon and Perez deserve similar respect.

Jairzinho:

On the Palestinian issue:

Do you know majority of Palestinians live in refugee camps in Syria, Jordan,Lebanon, Libya? They are mostly denied citizenship in the countries  (many from birth) & discriminated against. They have no country to call their own, tho’ Nigeria  may be corrupt and ineptly run,we still have something to point to that resembles a country !

And how is this Israel's fault? Every other arab that stayed behind in Israel instead of fleeing in anticipation of the destruction of the jews in 1948 is NOW a bonafide Israeli citizen with far more rights than even Jordanians can ever expect in their own "country". Have you wondered why palestinian "refugees" are the ONLY refugees yet to be resettled and denied citizenship ONLY in arab countries where they are born?

There were millions of refugees after WWII, why are they still not in refugee camps today?

Jairzinho:

Currently its easier for a Nigerian to travel and work in Lebanon or Qatar than an Arab Muslim Palestinian(FACT !).

And this is Israel's fault how? Even palestinians in the West Bank find it easier to move to Israel to find jobs.

Jairzinho:

I’m sure you are aware of the fact that almost 20% of all Palestinians are CHRISTIANS? The kind of double whammy  persecution they go through  because of Israeli occupation is unbelievable.

I'm sorry . . . READ THE NEWS you ignorant noise makers . . . palestinian christians PREFER the Israeli "occupation" to the palestinian moslem leadership . . .

Just a tip of the iceberg . . .

Christians flee Muslim pressure
[url=http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3190798,00.html]Muslims persecuting Bethlehem's Christians[/url]
- Store owner in West Bank city says 'We are harassed, but you wouldn't know the truth. No one says anything publicly about the Muslims'

Jairzinho:

Many  muslims treat them with disdain cos they erroneously perceive America as a 'christian country' hence the Palestinian Christians are to blame for whatever stalemate  currently exists. It gets worse when Israel assassinates or launches attacks on Gaza, W/bank.

Muslims have ALWAYS treated christians with disdain anytime they are in the majority . . . circa Iraq, Sudan, even NIGERIA! The palestinian christians are not suffering because of the perception of Israel or America . . . moslems are generally intolerant of any religion but islam. That is a fact you cannot continue to window-dress.

- So Israel choosing to DEFEND itself from suicide bombers and terrorists in Gaza and the W/bank (falsely, decietfully and erroneously refered to as "launches attacks" is enough reason for moslem palestinians to purge bethlehem of its christians?

Jairzinho:

So it has got me thinking, why should I blindly support Israel , when my fellow believers in Christ are been persecuted, live in abject squalor, mainly (not entirely) cos of  Israeli govt policies?

This is BS . . . i cant imagine you have a brain. Why are the christians IN ISRAEL doing just fine if its their policies that is making those in the "occupied territories" suffer? Can you see the irony in your own claims?

Jairzinho:

Tho’ unrelated to this thread ,the fact remains that Saddam was as secular as they come (some even believe he was a closet atheist).Before the Iraq war, there were 800,000 Christians in Iraq, they broadcasted Easter service on state television, Iraqis inter-married (Sunni,Shia,kurd,Christians). . . now almost 80% of the Christians have fled the country . So Im thinking what is the impact of all these silly policies on Christianity in the Middle East?

And again this has to do with Israel how?

Jairzinho:

I'm only requesting we take a more balanced view of this really complex problem & not be quick to necessarily associate Israel   with good & Palestinians or Arabs with bad !

Take your own advice.

Jairzinho:

On the topic- tho' Im impressed by the way the assasination was carried out,being an avid reader of Ludlum,Forsythe myself. . .I don't thnk its right . Because where will it all end? You kill them ,they kill you . . .and back & forth it goes.

When the moslems learn to love themselves more than they hate jews then there will be peace.

Jairzinho:

The Mandela approach best exemplifies the teachings of Jesus Christ.

If the jews had followed the "Mandela approach" they would long have ceased to exist.

Best believe if you came to attack my wife and kids i would not take the Mandela approach with you, i will destroy you.

Is it possible to disagree without hyperventilating??
What’s all the ‘ignorant noisemakers’, ‘BS’ ,’I don’t think you have a brain’ nonsense you’re spewing??
State your points, but don’t get personal.

davidylan:

And how is this Israel's fault? Every other arab that stayed behind in Israel instead of fleeing in anticipation of the destruction of the jews in 1948 is NOW a bonafide Israeli citizen with far more rights than even Jordanians can ever expect in their own "country". Have you wondered why palestinian "refugees" are the ONLY refugees yet to be resettled and denied citizenship ONLY in arab countries where they are born?

No one is saying its entirely Israel’s fault. Learn to read thoroughly & don’t be too pre-occupied with typing a quick response. Imagine you’re Igbo and due to the Biafra war you became a refugee, how would you like to be resettled in Cameroun?
What’s your opinion on the pre-1967 borders vis a vis your position on 1948 & the current refugee situation?
And when you say ‘bonafide Israeli citizens’, what do you mean? Can the Arabs really be 1st class Israelis? Even Netanyahu has said one pre-condition for negotiation is that Israel must be recognised as the land of the JEWS !!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3638934/Second-class-citizens-in-their-own-country.html

davidylan:

And this is Israel's fault how? Even palestinians in the West Bank find it easier to move to Israel to find jobs.
I'm sorry . . . READ THE NEWS you ignorant noise makers . . . palestinian christians PREFER the Israeli "occupation" to the palestinian moslem leadership . . .

I doubt your sources. Arabs are arabs & would never prefer non-arabs to their own. They may differ in belief however. You have such examples as Syria, Lebanon, Jordan & Egypt with significant Christian population living under majority muslim rule and yes. . . they are all arabs !
The Muslim persecution of Palestinian Christians is the very essence of my previous post. What is responsible for this?

davidylan:

. . . moslems are generally intolerant of any religion but islam. That is a fact you cannot continue to window-dress.

Just the same way you(david) can’t tolerate Muslims. Intolerance is a human trait & not necessarily linked to the religion. (Recall Hitler,Franco)
You have intolerant Muslims , and you also have intolerant Christians, likewise intolerant Jews !
The same Hausas you are condemning allow non-Hausa Christians to hold political office in Kano. Can this happen in your home state ? So don’t be quick to associate intolerance with religion. . . yes we have osama & his crew,but so do we have the Lord’s resistance Army in East Africa-can they be said to represent Christians?
I’m not trying to be an apologist for Muslims , . . I have my issues with them, but the Middle East problems are multi-dimensional not just religious.

davidylan:

- So Israel choosing to DEFEND itself from suicide bombers and terrorists in Gaza and the W/bank (falsely, decietfully and erroneously refered to as "launches attacks" is enough reason for moslem palestinians to purge bethlehem of its christians?

No one is saying Israel shouldn’t defend itself,just like you can’t argue with America chasing Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. But as clearly identified by all relevant parties, . the solution to this problem is political & not military.
The Aparthied problem which seemed intractable & elicited so much passion among black Africans(much like the Palestinian issue whips up Muslim sentiments) was ultimately resolved by people talking . . . not military means.

davidylan:

When the moslems learn to love themselves more than they hate jews then there will be peace.
If the jews had followed the "Mandela approach" they would long have ceased to exist.
Best believe if you came to attack my wife and kids i would not take the Mandela approach with you, i will destroy you.

Well your approach was in play in N/Ireland & I guess it worked.
I have issues with islam & my posts on the Islam section highlight this. . . but I know there’s another way . . . not the 2 extremes ,which you (& Likud) or Hamas(Iran) are offering us.

Again I must emphasise, channel your energies towards rational arguments not personal ,infantile insults. . .I’m assuming that disagreeing with you won’t be like arguing with my dining table.

Jairzinho:

Is it possible to disagree without hyperventilating??
What’s all the ‘ignorant noisemakers’, ‘BS’ ,’I don’t think you have a brain’ nonsense you’re spewing??
State your points, but don’t get personal.

Believe me i do state my points and dont get personal. You're the one taking the words personal not me.
As far as i'm concerned . . . i have very little respect for folks who think they know so much and end up betraying their own sheer ignorance.

Jairzinho:

No one is saying its entirely Israel’s fault. Learn to read thoroughly & don’t be too pre-occupied with typing a quick response.

You didnt justify how it was EVER Israel's fault in the first place? For instance what has Israel to do with the mass migration of christians from Baghdad where they were at least protected under Saddam?

Jairzinho:

Imagine you’re Igbo and due to the Biafra war you became a refugee, how would you like to be resettled in Cameroun?

I'm not sure you thoroughly understand the history behind 1948 . . . do you know where the "refugees" came from in the first place? Do you know the rational behind UN's classification of those arabs as "refugees"?

If 6 arab nations (supported by the arabs in "palestine" at that time" came to invade and destroy 600,000 jews . . . i have no sympathy for them losing.

Jairzinho:

What’s your opinion on the pre-1967 borders vis a vis your position on 1948 & the current refugee situation?

First of all let us be honest here . . .

THERE WAS NO PEACE with Israel pre-1967. So all these silly propaganda that all the middle east problems can be solved if Israel just went back to pre-1967 borders is a LIE.

for example . . . FATAH (PLO) was formed in 1964, 3 yrs BEFORE any "occupation". The same FATAH wrote in their first "constitution" that neither they nor palestinians had any claims to the WestBank (Judea/Samaria before it was occupied and renamed by Jordan illegally in 1949) when it was under Jordanian control.

when Gaza was under Egyptian control no one called it an "occupation".

Jairzinho:

And when you say ‘bonafide Israeli citizens’, what do you mean? Can the Arabs really be 1st class Israelis?

Yes they are . . . they have political parties in Israel, have ministers in the Israeli cabinet and are represented in the Knesset. Are jews treated any better?

And here again is the reason i have very little respect for you . . . the constant regurgitation of baseless arab propaganda at the expense of FACTS and TRUTH.

Jairzinho:

Even Netanyahu has said one pre-condition for negotiation is that Israel must be recognised as the land of the JEWS !!

Just the same way America is the land of Americans even though it has a sizeable latino population. Jews make up 75% of Israel . . . it thus makes sense that it be regarded as Jewish territory. When Jordan became a nation in 1922 (illegal if i might add on 75% of historic palestine - i'm sure many of you are ignorant of that salient FACT) it first purged its nation of ALL jews including those who had called the banks of Jordan home for 3000 yrs.

Jairzinho:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3638934/Second-class-citizens-in-their-own-country.html

I had to laugh at this . . . its hard to take you seriously as a person with intelligence. Read through your own link and please tell me how that is any different from the typical problems minorities have in other countries.

Just a few examples from your link . . .

- In theory, they have exactly the same rights as Jewish Israelis. The Israeli government can point at a declaration of independence and a basic law that officially enshrines equality for all Israeli citizens, no matter their religion. - on the flip-side, it is AGAINST THE LAW for jews to exist in Jordan or Syria. Gazan and FATAH authorities are fighting for a palestinian state that is Judehnrein (no Jews AT ALL).

And we cry that the arabs have it "bad" in Israel? lol lol

- In a recent survey, more than half of those questioned said they believed a Jewish woman marrying an Arab man to be a "betrayal of the country and the Jewish people''. And 50.9 per cent agreed the state should encourage Arab Israelis to leave the country. - It is not a hidden fact that arab Israelis DO NOT pledge allegiance to Israel but to the arab palestinian leadership in the West Bank. Arabs in Israel have fought to have themselves EXEMPT from compulsory military service in the Israeli army (save for Druze arabs or Bedouin arabs). Why then do you think Jewish polls shld reflect any differently?

- While Israeli Arabs are meant to enjoy equal status, it took until this year - 59 years after the state was founded - for the first Israeli Arab Muslim to occupy a seat in cabinet. - It took over 200 yrs for the first half-black American to be elected president. Are blacks second class citizens in America too?

- "Arab citizens are growing as a proportion of our population, but are increasingly alienated," said Nadia Hilo, Israel's first female Arab MP, who was elected to the Knesset last year. "The discrimination is coming from the civil service and public sector in particular, where Arab Israelis find it much harder to find jobs than Jewish applicants." This coming from ab arab MP? If being a second class citizen here means i can become an MP then i'd gladly take it . . . she should try being a jew in Jordan or Gaza then come back to complain to us.

Please where are the CONCRETE points to prove that arabs are indeed systematically subjugated in Israel? One wonders why they keep pouring into Israel then and not to their "librul" arab brother states.

Jairzinho:

I doubt your sources. Arabs are arabs & would never prefer non-arabs to their own.

And you wonder why i call BS on your claims? Bethlehem was once 80% christian, the christian population has shrunk to less than 15%. Guess why. Yeah you can just blame Israel.

Jairzinho:

They may differ in belief however. You have such examples as Syria, Lebanon, Jordan & Egypt with significant Christian population living under majority muslim rule and yes. . . they are all arabs !

my friend use google even if you cant read.
Lebanon was 84% christian as at 1926, today the population is under 30% and they are 95% arab by the way.
Egypt has no significant christian population, it has a tiny coptic christian population that is under severe threat of extinction.
Christians are a meager 6% of Jordan's population (so much for significant christian population).

See its hard to be civil with folks like you when you lie so much and expose your shallow grasp of the facts.

Jairzinho:

The Muslim persecution of Palestinian Christians is the very essence of my previous post. What is responsible for this?

when you understand why christians are a vanishing minority in Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Algeria, Tunisia (all once significant outposts of the early christian church), Sudan and practically do not exist in Saudi Arabia . . . then you understand the REAL REASON. Hint . . . it has nothing to do with jews.

Jairzinho:

Just the same way you(david) can’t tolerate Muslims. Intolerance is a human trait & not necessarily linked to the religion. (Recall Hitler,Franco)
You have intolerant Muslims , and you also have intolerant Christians, likewise intolerant Jews !

Cut the sanctimonious false propaganda pls. time to call a spade a spade.

Jairzinho:

The same Hausas you are condemning allow non-Hausa Christians to hold political office in Kano. Can this happen in your home state ?

Perhaps this has to do with the fact that there are very few educated hausas in my state no?

Jairzinho:

So don’t be quick to associate intolerance with religion. . . yes we have osama & his crew,but so do we have the Lord’s resistance Army in East Africa-can they be said to represent Christians?

The Lord's resistance army has never for once associated themselves with christianity or the church and are not fighting to institute mosaic law. They are not supported by christians the world over either.

Please come up with substantive analogies next time.

Jairzinho:

The Aparthied problem which seemed intractable & elicited so much passion among black Africans(much like the Palestinian issue whips up Muslim sentiments) was ultimately resolved by people talking . . . not military means.

would that be because the blacks dont have a spiritual book that says the whites in SA must be wiped out before the world will end?

Jairzinho:

Again I must emphasise, channel your energies towards rational arguments not personal ,infantile insults. . .I’m assuming that disagreeing with you won’t be like arguing with my dining table.

I'm not putting up infantile insults, simply calling things as they are.

Frankly you have brought no intelligent input to this discussion. I feel as if i am speaking with my dining table too, at least it wouldnt spew such false crap to justify the indefensible.

davidylan:

Believe me i do state my points and dont get personal. You're the one taking the words personal not me.As far as i'm concerned . . . i have very little respect for folks who think they know so much and end up betraying their own sheer ignorance.

On the contrary, I respect everybody’s right to hold an opinion &  will not refer to people as been ‘ignorant’. You are the kind of ‘religious’ people Jesus warned us against  . All heat no light.

Full of insults never adding value. You claim to be a Christian ,but I honestly can’t see the light in you.

davidylan:

You didnt justify how it was EVER Israel's fault in the first place? For instance what has Israel to do with the mass migration of christians from Baghdad where they were at least protected under Saddam?

See why I said you never take time to READ, all you are interested in is to type a quick response, find below my initial post on the Christians in Iraq.

Jairzinho:

[b]Tho’ unrelated to this thread ,[/b]the fact remains that Saddam was as secular as they come (some even believe he was a closet atheist).Before the Iraq war, there were 800,000 Christians in Iraq, they broadcasted Easter service on state television, Iraqis inter-married (Sunni,Shia,kurd,Christians). . . now almost 80% of the Christians have fled the country . So Im thinking what is the impact of all these silly policies on Christianity in the Middle East?

davidylan:

I'm not sure you thoroughly understand the history behind 1948 . . . do you know where the "refugees" came from in the first place? Do you know the rational behind UN's classification of those arabs as "refugees"?
If 6 arab nations (supported by the arabs in "palestine" at that time" came to invade and destroy 600,000 jews . . . i have no sympathy for them losing.
First of all let us be honest here . . .
THERE WAS NO PEACE with Israel pre-1967. So all these silly propaganda that all the middle east problems can be solved if Israel just went back to pre-1967 borders is a LIE.
for example . . . FATAH (PLO) was formed in 1964, 3 yrs BEFORE any "occupation". The same FATAH wrote in their first "constitution" that neither they nor palestinians had any claims to the WestBank (Judea/Samaria before it was occupied and renamed by Jordan illegally in 1949) when it was under Jordanian control.

I laugh in Hebrew, you claim to know so much about the history of Israel, yet you exhibit such crass naivete it’s unbelievable.
Anyone reading the tonnes of garbage you churn out would think there’s any sense in what you are posting, but alas. . . .absolute RUBBISH.
I also notice the first thing you say whenever the issue of history of the ME comes up is “I'm not sure you understand the history. . . "

Who made you an authority? Where are your references?
Don’t ever say that again ! State your point and desist from casting aspersions. . . .duh ! don’t think you know much about the history of Israel’ how dare you?

Let me start by saying  I completely agree with the creation of the state of Israel in 1948,my main concern lies with the Palestinian aspiration for statehood.

1. The fact that Israel took those lands in the 1967 war doesn’t confer outright  ownership. This is the 21st century,rational & judicial arbitration is the order of the day, not brute force-Kosovo, Bakassi are pointers to this. I appreciate Israel taking its security seriously & personally I wouldn’t hand back the Golan Heights to the Syrians cos of the strategic location. .  .but Israel cannot continue to act with impunity.

2. Stop quoting the UN, because the greatest flouter of UN resolutions in the world  today is  state of Israel, despite the fact that the state of Israel was formed by a resolution of the UN(181). Yes we could argue that the Arabs were on the wrong side of the truth in the early days, but we are talking about 2010. . . . . . over 60 years later ! Stop coming up with arguments that no longer hold water.

3. Is being Israeli ,a racial/ethnic identity or religious one? 

4. Stop referencing IRRELEVANT information. Whatever FATAH said before(I need your ref however) is not important. What is the situation RIGHT NOW?

5. Jordan has left the Palestinians to their fate, the Israelis are screwing them as well and you’re here quoting FATAH constitution of 1963.
My personal solution to the whole problem would have been for Gaza to become part of Egypt & W/bank Jordan. But if that isn’t going to happen. . . .they should get their independence.

davidylan:

Yes they are . . . they have political parties in Israel, have ministers in the Israeli cabinet and are represented in the Knesset. Are jews treated any better?

Another sign you don’t read !

Imagine if  George Bush had said America was for only Anglo-Saxons or Caucasians?

The Arabs can’t serve in the military and many other key sectors. (if indeed they are 1st class equal citizens, why not?)

Your argument on how well the arabs are treated in Israel reminds me of the arguments of the apartheid regime in SA, they always touted the fact that the blacks in SA had a much higher  quality of life than the rest of black Africa.

davidylan:

my friend use google even if you cant read.
Egypt has no significant christian population, it has a tiny coptic christian population that is under severe threat of extinction.
Christians are a meager 6% of Jordan's population (so much for significant christian population).

You see where your arrogance has taken you.
Christians  make up 10% of Egypt’s population (almost 10 million people) –if  thats not significant, I don’t know what is ?  YOU GOOGLE IF YOU CAN’T READ !

davidylan:

The Lord's resistance army has never for once associated themselves with christianity or the church and are not fighting to institute mosaic law. They are not supported by christians the world over either.
Please come up with substantive analogies next time.
would that be because the blacks dont have a spiritual book that says the whites in SA must be wiped out before the world will end?

Another issue arrogantly dismissed my   you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army   
Everyone knows this except you.

I now understand why you can never change. . . . you simply cannot listen to /read contrary views. You have gotten to the stage where you feel you know enough (tho’ clearly you know very little) , hence you cannot possibly take in any new ideas or modify your point of view.

If Muslims  had wanted to ‘wipe out Christians ’ I doubt you would have Christians in Arab countries.

The king of Jordan (incidentally the most liberal of all the arab leaders) is a direct descendant of Prophet Mohammed, they should have pursued this ‘directive’ to the letter.

So don’t always think the worst of others. . . . most human beings are reasonable and well intentioned.
I wish you well. . .

Jairzinho:

On the contrary, I respect everybody’s right to hold an opinion & will not refer to people as been ‘ignorant’. You are the kind of ‘religious’ people Jesus warned us against . All heat no light.

Not really . . . if you read the bible quite well you'll notice he seemed to warn us against legalistic "christians" who are full of the law but empty of any spirituality. they can quote the laws of Moses, but rarely ever apply them. Pacifists who think that long prayers and looking morose is what constitutes spirituality.

Jairzinho:

Full of insults never adding value. You claim to be a Christian ,but I honestly can’t see the light in you.

Actually Christ spent a good deal of His time calling the pharisees vipers, empty whitened sepulchres, hypcorites . . .

Jairzinho:

See why I said you never take time to READ, all you are interested in is to type a quick response, find below my initial post on the Christians in Iraq.

I took my time to READ your post on the allegation of arabs being second class citizens in Israel . . . if i didnt i would not have been able to give a semi-detailed rebuttal of the nonsense it contained. I doubt you even read the link.

Jairzinho:

I laugh in Hebrew, you claim to know so much about the history of Israel, yet you exhibit such crass ignorance it’s unbelievable.
Anyone reading the tonnes of garbage you churn out would think there’s any sense in what you are posting, but alas. . . .absolute RUBBISH.
I also notice the first thing you say whenever the issue of history of the ME comes up is “I'm not sure you understand the history. . . "

So much criticism . . . no where do you point out the "crass ignorance" or "tonnes of garbage" and provide us your own version of history.

Jairzinho:

Who made you an authority? Where are your references?
Don’t ever say that again ! State your point and desist from casting aspersions. . . .duh ! don’t think you know much about the history of Israel’ how dare you?

i might not be an authority but unlike you i have some knowledge on the background of the palestinian issue. Ignorant noise makers like you think because you've visited Dubai you can suddenly preach to the rest of us.

Jairzinho:

Let me start by saying I completely agree with the creation of the state of Israel in 1948, my main concern lies with the Palestinian aspiration for statehood.

This here is one of the major problems . . . the palestinians HAVE NO ASPIRATIONS FOR STATEHOOD. You only need to look at their actions and statements to come to that conclusions . . . rather they aspire to destroy Israel.

Following reasons (which you can confirm yourself by the way):

1. Prior to 1967, there WAS NO CRY FOR PALESTINIAN statehood when the lands in question where in Jordanian and Egyptian hands.
2. When FATAH was formed in 1964, it EXPLICITLY stated it had no right to sovereign claims to the West Bank and acknowledged Jordan's right to it. What changed between then and 1967?
3. Jordan IS the palestinian state, it was created on 75-78% of the historic palestine in 1922 and is 95% palestinian arab! Actually Arafat was Jordanian until he was expelled in 1970 along with the PLO (you know those goons like Fayad and Abass who now claim the westbank for a "state".

Those are CLEAR FACTS . . . you can whine from now till tomorrow.

Jairzinho:

1. The fact that Israel took those lands in the 1967 war doesn’t confer outright ownership. This is the 21st century,rational & judicial arbitration is the order of the day, not brute force-Kosovo, Bakassi are pointers to this. I appreciate Israel taking its security seriously & personally I wouldn’t hand back the Golan Heights to the Syrians cos of the strategic location. . .but Israel cannot continue to act with impunity.

Israel can only give the lands back to those it took if from in 1967 . . . Egypt and Jordan have made CLEAR that they dont want them back. I can produce REFERENCES to justify that fact (a thing you NEVER do but whine for my own references).

Jairzinho:

2. Stop quoting the UN, because the greatest flouter of UN resolutions in the world today is state of Israel, despite the fact that the state of Israel was formed by a resolution of the UN(181). Yes we could argue that the Arabs were on the wrong side of the truth in the early days, but we are talking about 2010. . . . . . over 60 years later ! Stop coming up with arguments that no longer hold water.

There was no point reading beyond that piece of propaganda. Anyone with half a brain knows that isnt remotely close to the facts but continue lapping up arab and moslem lies. It suits empty heads like you.

Jairzinho:

3. Is being Israeli ,a racial/ethnic identity or religious one?

And what has that to do with anything? why are hypocrites like you bothered about the identity of who an Israeli is while the palestinians have made clear that any state they found will be purely islamic and free of Jews? Are you bothered about the racial or ethnic identity of the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN?

Jairzinho:

4. Stop referencing IRRELEVANT information. Whatever FATAH said before(I need your ref however) is not important. What is the situation RIGHT NOW?

I'm sorry but you continously lose credibility here when you try to evade painful FACTS because they dont square with your own version of events. What PLO said before is relevant . . . Abass was a member of that FATAH started in 1964 just in case you werent aware.

To say that PLO's claim that the West Bank was Jordanian territory in 1964 is irrelevant is just laughable.

Jairzinho:

5. Jordan has left the Palestinians to their fate, the Israelis are screwing them as well and you’re here quoting FATAH constitution of 1963.
My personal solution to the whole problem would have been for Gaza to become part of Egypt & W/bank Jordan. But if that isn’t going to happen. . . .they should get their independence.

Gaza has gotten independence from Israel since 2005. Care to tell us how that is turning out?

Jairzinho:

Another sign you don’t read !

And what is the evidence that you read at all? At least i provide facts and figures, where are yours?

Jairzinho:

Imagine if George Bush had said America was for only Anglo-Saxons or Caucasians?

this is STUPID . . . the jews have NEVER said Israel is for jews only, 25% of Israelis are not jews. Israel undertook a massive airlift of Ethiopians to Israel during the famine of the 1980s. They were the ONLY WESTERN OR ARAB NATION to do so!

On the other hand . . . FATAH's idea of a "palestinian state" is one FREE OF JEWS.

Now those are facts . . . too bad they dont fit in your warped and false narrative.

Jairzinho:

The Arabs can’t serve in the military and many other key sectors. (if indeed they are 1st class equal citizens, why not?)

Dumbo . . . because they DELIBERATELY CHOSE NOT TO! No one stopped them . . . Druze's and Bedoiun arabs serve in the Israeli army with no problems. Did you realise the Israeli soldier killed in the West Bank last week was ARAB?

Read the news . . . more and more arabs are joining the Israeli army now.

Lets produce facts to debunk your senseless claim . . .

Arabs Uneasy About Joining Israeli Army
- TEL AVIV - The Israeli government has begun to actively promote voluntary army service for Israeli Arabs. The Knesset, the Israeli parliament, is meanwhile considering plans to make civil service compulsory for all Israeli citizens, including Israeli Arabs.

The Arab community in Israel is opposing the plans, and leaders say these are only a way of getting rid of Palestinian identity. They also have misgivings about compulsory national civil service, which means community service in towns, hospitals, or schools as an alternative to military service.

Now you know why?

Jairzinho:

Your argument on how well the arabs are treated in Israel reminds me of the arguments of the apartheid regime in SA, they always touted the fact that the blacks in SA had a much higher quality of life than the rest of black Africa.

the discredited apartheid nonsense again. No point taking this on.

Jairzinho:

You see where your arrogance has taken you.
Christians make up 10% of Egypt’s population (almost 10 million people) –if thats not significant, I don’t know what is ? YOU GOOGLE IF YOU CAN’T READ !

But i thought you lumped Jordan (with a 6% christian population) in with then? So you conclude you cant read too for that misinformation?

Christians comprise 10% of Egypt is almost like saying 30% of Lebanese are christians . . . it is an ignorant claim that does not take into account the sad fact that christianity in those countries has actually undergone tremendous persecution and is only hanging by a thread.

this is what the "10% christians" in Egypt are going through . . . (since you cant find out on your own) . . .

Egypt - Persecution
Disappearing Christians of the Middle East

Egypt's Coptic Christians battle for ID cards

American institute calls on Obama to protect Christians in Egypt

Egypt Christians call for right to build churches
- CAIRO (AP) - Egyptian activists have protested in front of parliament and called for legislation giving Christians equal rights as Muslims to build houses of worship.

and here i thot the christians in Egypt had such a wonderful life compared to those "wickied" joos.

Jairzinho:

I now understand why you can never change. . . . you simply cannot listen to /read contrary views. You have gotten to the stage where you feel you know enough (tho’ clearly you know very little) , hence you cannot possibly take in any new ideas or modify your point of view.

That problem is squarely yours. those with whom i have respected their views BECAUSE they actually know what they are talking about and provide facts to back up their points understand that SEVERAL times i have come to say - - dude good point, i accept. 4play, ibime, tayo-D are good examples.

I dont say that to empty heads who just make noise.

Jairzinho:

If Muslims had wanted to ‘wipe out Christians ’ I doubt you would have Christians in Arab countries.

84% - 26% in less than 80 yrs in Lebanon is not a bad try.
80% to less than 15% in Bethlehem isnt a bad try either.

Try again.

Jairzinho:

The king of Jordan (incidentally the most liberal of all the arab leaders) is a direct descendant of Prophet Mohammed, they should have pursued this ‘directive’ to the letter.

Which further cements the fact that you know little on this issue. The king of Jordan is from Mecca . . . what is he doing ruling over Jordan? Has that question EVER occured to you fools led by the nose by arab imperialists? Was Jordan EVER a part of Mecca?

Jairzinho:

So don’t always think the worst of others. . . . most human beings are reasonable and well intentioned.
I wish you well. . .

I wish you well too.

what is funny is that NOT ONCE does Jairzinho take on ANY of my arguments or facts, all he does is spew the same drivel and propaganda ad nauseum. Do these folks read?

Jairzinho:

On the contrary, I respect everybody’s right to hold an opinion & will not refer to people as been ‘ignorant’. You are the kind of ‘religious’ people Jesus warned us against . All heat no light.

Not really . . . if you read the bible quite well you'll notice he seemed to warn us against legalistic "christians" who are full of the law but empty of any spirituality. they can quote the laws of Moses, but rarely ever apply them. Pacifists who think that long prayers and looking morose is what constitutes spirituality.

Jairzinho:

Full of insults never adding value. You claim to be a Christian ,but I honestly can’t see the light in you.

Actually Christ spent a good deal of His time calling the pharisees vipers, empty whitened sepulchres, hypcorites . . .

Jairzinho:

See why I said you never take time to READ, all you are interested in is to type a quick response, find below my initial post on the Christians in Iraq.

I took my time to READ your post on the allegation of arabs being second class citizens in Israel . . . if i didnt i would not have been able to give a semi-detailed rebuttal of the nonsense it contained. I doubt you even read the link.

Jairzinho:

I laugh in Hebrew, you claim to know so much about the history of Israel, yet you exhibit such crass ignorance it’s unbelievable.
Anyone reading the tonnes of garbage you churn out would think there’s any sense in what you are posting, but alas. . . .absolute RUBBISH.
I also notice the first thing you say whenever the issue of history of the ME comes up is “I'm not sure you understand the history. . . "

So much criticism . . . no where do you point out the "crass ignorance" or "tonnes of garbage" and provide us your own version of history.

Jairzinho:

Who made you an authority? Where are your references?
Don’t ever say that again ! State your point and desist from casting aspersions. . . .duh ! don’t think you know much about the history of Israel’ how dare you?

i might not be an authority but unlike you i have some knowledge on the background of the palestinian issue. Ignorant noise makers like you think because you've visited Dubai you can suddenly preach to the rest of us.

Jairzinho:

Let me start by saying I completely agree with the creation of the state of Israel in 1948, my main concern lies with the Palestinian aspiration for statehood.

This here is one of the major problems . . . the palestinians HAVE NO ASPIRATIONS FOR STATEHOOD. You only need to look at their actions and statements to come to that conclusions . . . rather they aspire to destroy Israel.

Following reasons (which you can confirm yourself by the way):

1. Prior to 1967, there WAS NO CRY FOR PALESTINIAN statehood when the lands in question where in Jordanian and Egyptian hands.
2. When FATAH was formed in 1964, it EXPLICITLY stated it had no right to sovereign claims to the West Bank and acknowledged Jordan's right to it. What changed between then and 1967?
3. Jordan IS the palestinian state, it was created on 75-78% of the historic palestine in 1922 and is 95% palestinian arab! Actually Arafat was Jordanian until he was expelled in 1970 along with the PLO (you know those goons like Fayad and Abass who now claim the westbank for a "state".

Those are CLEAR FACTS . . . you can whine from now till tomorrow.

Jairzinho:

1. The fact that Israel took those lands in the 1967 war doesn’t confer outright ownership. This is the 21st century,rational & judicial arbitration is the order of the day, not brute force-Kosovo, Bakassi are pointers to this. I appreciate Israel taking its security seriously & personally I wouldn’t hand back the Golan Heights to the Syrians cos of the strategic location. . .but Israel cannot continue to act with impunity.

Israel can only give the lands back to those it took if from in 1967 . . . Egypt and Jordan have made CLEAR that they dont want them back. I can produce REFERENCES to justify that fact (a thing you NEVER do but whine for my own references).

Jairzinho:

2. Stop quoting the UN, because the greatest flouter of UN resolutions in the world today is state of Israel, despite the fact that the state of Israel was formed by a resolution of the UN(181). Yes we could argue that the Arabs were on the wrong side of the truth in the early days, but we are talking about 2010. . . . . . over 60 years later ! Stop coming up with arguments that no longer hold water.

There was no point reading beyond that piece of propaganda. Anyone with half a brain knows that isnt remotely close to the facts but continue lapping up arab and moslem lies. It suits empty heads like you.

Jairzinho:

3. Is being Israeli ,a racial/ethnic identity or religious one?

And what has that to do with anything? why are hypocrites like you bothered about the identity of who an Israeli is while the palestinians have made clear that any state they found will be purely islamic and free of Jews? Are you bothered about the racial or ethnic identity of the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN?

Jairzinho:

4. Stop referencing IRRELEVANT information. Whatever FATAH said before(I need your ref however) is not important. What is the situation RIGHT NOW?

I'm sorry but you continously lose credibility here when you try to evade painful FACTS because they dont square with your own version of events. What PLO said before is relevant . . . Abass was a member of that FATAH started in 1964 just in case you werent aware.

To say that PLO's claim that the West Bank was Jordanian territory in 1964 is irrelevant is just laughable.

Jairzinho:

5. Jordan has left the Palestinians to their fate, the Israelis are screwing them as well and you’re here quoting FATAH constitution of 1963.
My personal solution to the whole problem would have been for Gaza to become part of Egypt & W/bank Jordan. But if that isn’t going to happen. . . .they should get their independence.

Gaza has gotten independence from Israel since 2005. Care to tell us how that is turning out?

Jairzinho:

Another sign you don’t read !

And what is the evidence that you read at all? At least i provide facts and figures, where are yours?

Jairzinho:

Imagine if George Bush had said America was for only Anglo-Saxons or Caucasians?

this is STUPID . . . the jews have NEVER said Israel is for jews only, 25% of Israelis are not jews. Israel undertook a massive airlift of Ethiopians to Israel during the famine of the 1980s. They were the ONLY WESTERN OR ARAB NATION to do so!

On the other hand . . . FATAH's idea of a "palestinian state" is one FREE OF JEWS.

Now those are facts . . . too bad they dont fit in your warped and false narrative.

Jairzinho:

The Arabs can’t serve in the military and many other key sectors. (if indeed they are 1st class equal citizens, why not?)

Dumbo . . . because they DELIBERATELY CHOSE NOT TO! No one stopped them . . . Druze's and Bedoiun arabs serve in the Israeli army with no problems. Did you realise the Israeli soldier killed in the West Bank last week was ARAB?

Read the news . . . more and more arabs are joining the Israeli army now.

Lets produce facts to debunk your senseless claim . . .

Arabs Uneasy About Joining Israeli Army
- TEL AVIV - The Israeli government has begun to actively promote voluntary army service for Israeli Arabs. The Knesset, the Israeli parliament, is meanwhile considering plans to make civil service compulsory for all Israeli citizens, including Israeli Arabs.

The Arab community in Israel is opposing the plans, and leaders say these are only a way of getting rid of Palestinian identity. They also have misgivings about compulsory national civil service, which means community service in towns, hospitals, or schools as an alternative to military service.

Now you know why?

Jairzinho:

Your argument on how well the arabs are treated in Israel reminds me of the arguments of the apartheid regime in SA, they always touted the fact that the blacks in SA had a much higher quality of life than the rest of black Africa.

the discredited apartheid nonsense again. No point taking this on.

Jairzinho:

You see where your arrogance has taken you.
Christians make up 10% of Egypt’s population (almost 10 million people) –if thats not significant, I don’t know what is ? YOU GOOGLE IF YOU CAN’T READ !

But i thought you lumped Jordan (with a 6% christian population) in with then? So you conclude you cant read too for that misinformation?

Christians comprise 10% of Egypt is almost like saying 30% of Lebanese are christians . . . it is an ignorant claim that does not take into account the sad fact that christianity in those countries has actually undergone tremendous persecution and is only hanging by a thread.

this is what the "10% christians" in Egypt are going through . . . (since you cant find out on your own) . . .

Egypt - Persecution
Disappearing Christians of the Middle East

Egypt's Coptic Christians battle for ID cards

American institute calls on Obama to protect Christians in Egypt

Egypt Christians call for right to build churches
- CAIRO (AP) - Egyptian activists have protested in front of parliament and called for legislation giving Christians equal rights as Muslims to build houses of worship.

and here i thot the christians in Egypt had such a wonderful life compared to those "wickied" joos.

Jairzinho:

I now understand why you can never change. . . . you simply cannot listen to /read contrary views. You have gotten to the stage where you feel you know enough (tho’ clearly you know very little) , hence you cannot possibly take in any new ideas or modify your point of view.

That problem is squarely yours. those with whom i have respected their views BECAUSE they actually know what they are talking about and provide facts to back up their points understand that SEVERAL times i have come to say - - dude good point, i accept. 4play, ibime, tayo-D are good examples.

I dont say that to empty heads who just make noise.

Jairzinho:

If Muslims had wanted to ‘wipe out Christians ’ I doubt you would have Christians in Arab countries.

84% - 26% in less than 80 yrs in Lebanon is not a bad try.
80% to less than 15% in Bethlehem isnt a bad try either.

Try again.

Jairzinho:

The king of Jordan (incidentally the most liberal of all the arab leaders) is a direct descendant of Prophet Mohammed, they should have pursued this ‘directive’ to the letter.

Which further cements the fact that you know little on this issue. The king of Jordan is from Mecca . . . what is he doing ruling over Jordan? Has that question EVER occured to you fools led by the nose by arab imperialists? Was Jordan EVER a part of Mecca?

Jairzinho:

So don’t always think the worst of others. . . . most human beings are reasonable and well intentioned.
I wish you well. . .

I wish you well too.

What ate my posts a second time?

Jairzinho:

On the contrary, I respect everybody’s right to hold an opinion & will not refer to people as been ‘ignorant’. You are the kind of ‘religious’ people Jesus warned us against . All heat no light.

Not really . . . if you read the bible quite well you'll notice he seemed to warn us against legalistic "christians" who are full of the law but empty of any spirituality. they can quote the laws of Moses, but rarely ever apply them. Pacifists who think that long prayers and looking morose is what constitutes spirituality.

Jairzinho:

Full of insults never adding value. You claim to be a Christian ,but I honestly can’t see the light in you.

Actually Christ spent a good deal of His time calling the pharisees vipers, empty whitened sepulchres, hypcorites . . .

Jairzinho:

See why I said you never take time to READ, all you are interested in is to type a quick response, find below my initial post on the Christians in Iraq.

I took my time to READ your post on the allegation of arabs being second class citizens in Israel . . . if i didnt i would not have been able to give a semi-detailed rebuttal of the nonsense it contained. I doubt you even read the link.

Jairzinho:

I laugh in Hebrew, you claim to know so much about the history of Israel, yet you exhibit such crass ignorance it’s unbelievable.
Anyone reading the tonnes of garbage you churn out would think there’s any sense in what you are posting, but alas. . . .absolute RUBBISH.
I also notice the first thing you say whenever the issue of history of the ME comes up is “I'm not sure you understand the history. . . "

So much criticism . . . no where do you point out the "crass ignorance" or "tonnes of garbage" and provide us your own version of history.

Jairzinho:

Who made you an authority? Where are your references?
Don’t ever say that again ! State your point and desist from casting aspersions. . . .duh ! don’t think you know much about the history of Israel’ how dare you?

i might not be an authority but unlike you i have some knowledge on the background of the palestinian issue. Ignorant noise makers like you think because you've visited Dubai you can suddenly preach to the rest of us.

Jairzinho:

Let me start by saying I completely agree with the creation of the state of Israel in 1948, my main concern lies with the Palestinian aspiration for statehood.

This here is one of the major problems . . . the palestinians HAVE NO ASPIRATIONS FOR STATEHOOD. You only need to look at their actions and statements to come to that conclusions . . . rather they aspire to destroy Israel.

Following reasons (which you can confirm yourself by the way):

1. Prior to 1967, there WAS NO CRY FOR PALESTINIAN statehood when the lands in question where in Jordanian and Egyptian hands.
2. When FATAH was formed in 1964, it EXPLICITLY stated it had no right to sovereign claims to the West Bank and acknowledged Jordan's right to it. What changed between then and 1967?
3. Jordan IS the palestinian state, it was created on 75-78% of the historic palestine in 1922 and is 95% palestinian arab! Actually Arafat was Jordanian until he was expelled in 1970 along with the PLO (you know those goons like Fayad and Abass who now claim the westbank for a "state".

Those are CLEAR FACTS . . . you can whine from now till tomorrow.

Jairzinho:

1. The fact that Israel took those lands in the 1967 war doesn’t confer outright ownership. This is the 21st century,rational & judicial arbitration is the order of the day, not brute force-Kosovo, Bakassi are pointers to this. I appreciate Israel taking its security seriously & personally I wouldn’t hand back the Golan Heights to the Syrians cos of the strategic location. . .but Israel cannot continue to act with impunity.

Israel can only give the lands back to those it took if from in 1967 . . . Egypt and Jordan have made CLEAR that they dont want them back. I can produce REFERENCES to justify that fact (a thing you NEVER do but whine for my own references).

Jairzinho:

2. Stop quoting the UN, because the greatest flouter of UN resolutions in the world today is state of Israel, despite the fact that the state of Israel was formed by a resolution of the UN(181). Yes we could argue that the Arabs were on the wrong side of the truth in the early days, but we are talking about 2010. . . . . . over 60 years later ! Stop coming up with arguments that no longer hold water.

There was no point reading beyond that piece of propaganda. Anyone with half a brain knows that isnt remotely close to the facts but continue lapping up arab and moslem lies. It suits empty heads like you.

Jairzinho:

3. Is being Israeli ,a racial/ethnic identity or religious one?

And what has that to do with anything? why are hypocrites like you bothered about the identity of who an Israeli is while the palestinians have made clear that any state they found will be purely islamic and free of Jews? Are you bothered about the racial or ethnic identity of the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN?

Jairzinho:

4. Stop referencing IRRELEVANT information. Whatever FATAH said before(I need your ref however) is not important. What is the situation RIGHT NOW?

I'm sorry but you continously lose credibility here when you try to evade painful FACTS because they dont square with your own version of events. What PLO said before is relevant . . . Abass was a member of that FATAH started in 1964 just in case you werent aware.

To say that PLO's claim that the West Bank was Jordanian territory in 1964 is irrelevant is just laughable.

Jairzinho:

5. Jordan has left the Palestinians to their fate, the Israelis are screwing them as well and you’re here quoting FATAH constitution of 1963.
My personal solution to the whole problem would have been for Gaza to become part of Egypt & W/bank Jordan. But if that isn’t going to happen. . . .they should get their independence.

Gaza has gotten independence from Israel since 2005. Care to tell us how that is turning out?

Jairzinho:

Another sign you don’t read !

And what is the evidence that you read at all? At least i provide facts and figures, where are yours?

Jairzinho:

Imagine if George Bush had said America was for only Anglo-Saxons or Caucasians?

this is STUPID . . . the jews have NEVER said Israel is for jews only, 25% of Israelis are not jews. Israel undertook a massive airlift of Ethiopians to Israel during the famine of the 1980s. They were the ONLY WESTERN OR ARAB NATION to do so!

On the other hand . . . FATAH's idea of a "palestinian state" is one FREE OF JEWS.

Now those are facts . . . too bad they dont fit in your warped and false narrative.

Jairzinho:

The Arabs can’t serve in the military and many other key sectors. (if indeed they are 1st class equal citizens, why not?)

Dumbo . . . because they DELIBERATELY CHOSE NOT TO! No one stopped them . . . Druze's and Bedoiun arabs serve in the Israeli army with no problems. Did you realise the Israeli soldier killed in the West Bank last week was ARAB?

Read the news . . . more and more arabs are joining the Israeli army now.

Lets produce facts to debunk your senseless claim . . .

Arabs Uneasy About Joining Israeli Army
- TEL AVIV - The Israeli government has begun to actively promote voluntary army service for Israeli Arabs. The Knesset, the Israeli parliament, is meanwhile considering plans to make civil service compulsory for all Israeli citizens, including Israeli Arabs.

The Arab community in Israel is opposing the plans, and leaders say these are only a way of getting rid of Palestinian identity. They also have misgivings about compulsory national civil service, which means community service in towns, hospitals, or schools as an alternative to military service.

Now you know why?

Jairzinho:

Your argument on how well the arabs are treated in Israel reminds me of the arguments of the apartheid regime in SA, they always touted the fact that the blacks in SA had a much higher quality of life than the rest of black Africa.

the discredited apartheid nonsense again. No point taking this on.

Jairzinho:

You see where your arrogance has taken you.
Christians make up 10% of Egypt’s population (almost 10 million people) –if thats not significant, I don’t know what is ? YOU GOOGLE IF YOU CAN’T READ !

But i thought you lumped Jordan (with a 6% christian population) in with then? So you conclude you cant read too for that misinformation?

Christians comprise 10% of Egypt is almost like saying 30% of Lebanese are christians . . . it is an ignorant claim that does not take into account the sad fact that christianity in those countries has actually undergone tremendous persecution and is only hanging by a thread.

this is what the "10% christians" in Egypt are going through . . . (since you cant find out on your own) . . .

Egypt - Persecution
Disappearing Christians of the Middle East

Egypt's Coptic Christians battle for ID cards

American institute calls on Obama to protect Christians in Egypt

Egypt Christians call for right to build churches
- CAIRO (AP) - Egyptian activists have protested in front of parliament and called for legislation giving Christians equal rights as Muslims to build houses of worship.

and here i thot the christians in Egypt had such a wonderful life compared to those "wickied" joos.

Jairzinho:

I now understand why you can never change. . . . you simply cannot listen to /read contrary views. You have gotten to the stage where you feel you know enough (tho’ clearly you know very little) , hence you cannot possibly take in any new ideas or modify your point of view.

That problem is squarely yours. those with whom i have respected their views BECAUSE they actually know what they are talking about and provide facts to back up their points understand that SEVERAL times i have come to say - - dude good point, i accept. 4play, ibime, tayo-D are good examples.

I dont say that to empty heads who just make noise.

Jairzinho:

If Muslims had wanted to ‘wipe out Christians ’ I doubt you would have Christians in Arab countries.

84% - 26% in less than 80 yrs in Lebanon is not a bad try.
80% to less than 15% in Bethlehem isnt a bad try either.

Try again.

Jairzinho:

The king of Jordan (incidentally the most liberal of all the arab leaders) is a direct descendant of Prophet Mohammed, they should have pursued this ‘directive’ to the letter.

Which further cements the fact that you know little on this issue. The king of Jordan is from Mecca . . . what is he doing ruling over Jordan? Has that question EVER occured to you fools led by the nose by arab imperialists? Was Jordan EVER a part of Mecca?

Jairzinho:

So don’t always think the worst of others. . . . most human beings are reasonable and well intentioned.
I wish you well. . .

I wish you well too.

Jairzinho:

On the contrary, I respect everybody’s right to hold an opinion & will not refer to people as been ‘ignorant’. You are the kind of ‘religious’ people Jesus warned us against . All heat no light.

Not really . . . if you read the bible quite well you'll notice he seemed to warn us against legalistic "christians" who are full of the law but empty of any spirituality. they can quote the laws of Moses, but rarely ever apply them. Pacifists who think that long prayers and looking morose is what constitutes spirituality.

Jairzinho:

Full of insults never adding value. You claim to be a Christian ,but I honestly can’t see the light in you.

Actually Christ spent a good deal of His time calling the pharisees vipers, empty whitened sepulchres, hypcorites . . .

Jairzinho:

See why I said you never take time to READ, all you are interested in is to type a quick response, find below my initial post on the Christians in Iraq.

I took my time to READ your post on the allegation of arabs being second class citizens in Israel . . . if i didnt i would not have been able to give a semi-detailed rebuttal of the nonsense it contained. I doubt you even read the link.

Jairzinho:

I laugh in Hebrew, you claim to know so much about the history of Israel, yet you exhibit such crass ignorance it’s unbelievable.
Anyone reading the tonnes of garbage you churn out would think there’s any sense in what you are posting, but alas. . . .absolute RUBBISH.
I also notice the first thing you say whenever the issue of history of the ME comes up is “I'm not sure you understand the history. . . "

So much criticism . . . no where do you point out the "crass ignorance" or "tonnes of garbage" and provide us your own version of history.

Jairzinho:

Who made you an authority? Where are your references?
Don’t ever say that again ! State your point and desist from casting aspersions. . . .duh ! don’t think you know much about the history of Israel’ how dare you?

i might not be an authority but unlike you i have some knowledge on the background of the palestinian issue. Ignorant noise makers like you think because you've visited Dubai you can suddenly preach to the rest of us.

Jairzinho:

Let me start by saying I completely agree with the creation of the state of Israel in 1948, my main concern lies with the Palestinian aspiration for statehood.

This here is one of the major problems . . . the palestinians HAVE NO ASPIRATIONS FOR STATEHOOD. You only need to look at their actions and statements to come to that conclusions . . . rather they aspire to destroy Israel.

Following reasons (which you can confirm yourself by the way):

1. Prior to 1967, there WAS NO CRY FOR PALESTINIAN statehood when the lands in question where in Jordanian and Egyptian hands.
2. When FATAH was formed in 1964, it EXPLICITLY stated it had no right to sovereign claims to the West Bank and acknowledged Jordan's right to it. What changed between then and 1967?
3. Jordan IS the palestinian state, it was created on 75-78% of the historic palestine in 1922 and is 95% palestinian arab! Actually Arafat was Jordanian until he was expelled in 1970 along with the PLO (you know those goons like Fayad and Abass who now claim the westbank for a "state".

Those are CLEAR FACTS . . . you can whine from now till tomorrow.

Jairzinho:

1. The fact that Israel took those lands in the 1967 war doesn’t confer outright ownership. This is the 21st century,rational & judicial arbitration is the order of the day, not brute force-Kosovo, Bakassi are pointers to this. I appreciate Israel taking its security seriously & personally I wouldn’t hand back the Golan Heights to the Syrians cos of the strategic location. . .but Israel cannot continue to act with impunity.

Israel can only give the lands back to those it took if from in 1967 . . . Egypt and Jordan have made CLEAR that they dont want them back. I can produce REFERENCES to justify that fact (a thing you NEVER do but whine for my own references).

Jairzinho:

2. Stop quoting the UN, because the greatest flouter of UN resolutions in the world today is state of Israel, despite the fact that the state of Israel was formed by a resolution of the UN(181). Yes we could argue that the Arabs were on the wrong side of the truth in the early days, but we are talking about 2010. . . . . . over 60 years later ! Stop coming up with arguments that no longer hold water.

There was no point reading beyond that piece of propaganda. Anyone with half a brain knows that isnt remotely close to the facts but continue lapping up arab and moslem lies. It suits empty heads like you.

Jairzinho:

3. Is being Israeli ,a racial/ethnic identity or religious one?

And what has that to do with anything? why are hypocrites like you bothered about the identity of who an Israeli is while the palestinians have made clear that any state they found will be purely islamic and free of Jews? Are you bothered about the racial or ethnic identity of the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN?

Jairzinho:

4. Stop referencing IRRELEVANT information. Whatever FATAH said before(I need your ref however) is not important. What is the situation RIGHT NOW?

I'm sorry but you continously lose credibility here when you try to evade painful FACTS because they dont square with your own version of events. What PLO said before is relevant . . . Abass was a member of that FATAH started in 1964 just in case you werent aware.

To say that PLO's claim that the West Bank was Jordanian territory in 1964 is irrelevant is just laughable.

Jairzinho:

5. Jordan has left the Palestinians to their fate, the Israelis are screwing them as well and you’re here quoting FATAH constitution of 1963.
My personal solution to the whole problem would have been for Gaza to become part of Egypt & W/bank Jordan. But if that isn’t going to happen. . . .they should get their independence.

Gaza has gotten independence from Israel since 2005. Care to tell us how that is turning out?

Jairzinho:

Another sign you don’t read !

And what is the evidence that you read at all? At least i provide facts and figures, where are yours?

Jairzinho:

Imagine if George Bush had said America was for only Anglo-Saxons or Caucasians?

this is STUPID . . . the jews have NEVER said Israel is for jews only, 25% of Israelis are not jews. Israel undertook a massive airlift of Ethiopians to Israel during the famine of the 1980s. They were the ONLY WESTERN OR ARAB NATION to do so!

On the other hand . . . FATAH's idea of a "palestinian state" is one FREE OF JEWS.

Now those are facts . . . too bad they dont fit in your warped and false narrative.

Jairzinho:

The Arabs can’t serve in the military and many other key sectors. (if indeed they are 1st class equal citizens, why not?)

Dumbo . . . because they DELIBERATELY CHOSE NOT TO! No one stopped them . . . Druze's and Bedoiun arabs serve in the Israeli army with no problems. Did you realise the Israeli soldier killed in the West Bank last week was ARAB?

Read the news . . . more and more arabs are joining the Israeli army now.

Lets produce facts to debunk your senseless claim . . .

Arabs Uneasy About Joining Israeli Army
- TEL AVIV - The Israeli government has begun to actively promote voluntary army service for Israeli Arabs. The Knesset, the Israeli parliament, is meanwhile considering plans to make civil service compulsory for all Israeli citizens, including Israeli Arabs.

The Arab community in Israel is opposing the plans, and leaders say these are only a way of getting rid of Palestinian identity. They also have misgivings about compulsory national civil service, which means community service in towns, hospitals, or schools as an alternative to military service.

Now you know why?

Jairzinho:

Your argument on how well the arabs are treated in Israel reminds me of the arguments of the apartheid regime in SA, they always touted the fact that the blacks in SA had a much higher quality of life than the rest of black Africa.

the discredited apartheid nonsense again. No point taking this on.

Jairzinho:

You see where your arrogance has taken you.
Christians make up 10% of Egypt’s population (almost 10 million people) –if thats not significant, I don’t know what is ? YOU GOOGLE IF YOU CAN’T READ !

But i thought you lumped Jordan (with a 6% christian population) in with then? So you conclude you cant read too for that misinformation?

Christians comprise 10% of Egypt is almost like saying 30% of Lebanese are christians . . . it is an ignorant claim that does not take into account the sad fact that christianity in those countries has actually undergone tremendous persecution and is only hanging by a thread.

this is what the "10% christians" in Egypt are going through . . . (since you cant find out on your own) . . .

Egypt - Persecution
Disappearing Christians of the Middle East

Egypt's Coptic Christians battle for ID cards

American institute calls on Obama to protect Christians in Egypt

Egypt Christians call for right to build churches
- CAIRO (AP) - Egyptian activists have protested in front of parliament and called for legislation giving Christians equal rights as Muslims to build houses of worship.

and here i thot the christians in Egypt had such a wonderful life compared to those "wickied" joos.

Jairzinho:

I now understand why you can never change. . . . you simply cannot listen to /read contrary views. You have gotten to the stage where you feel you know enough (tho’ clearly you know very little) , hence you cannot possibly take in any new ideas or modify your point of view.

That problem is squarely yours. those with whom i have respected their views BECAUSE they actually know what they are talking about and provide facts to back up their points understand that SEVERAL times i have come to say - - dude good point, i accept. 4play, ibime, tayo-D are good examples.

I dont say that to empty heads who just make noise.

Jairzinho:

If Muslims had wanted to ‘wipe out Christians ’ I doubt you would have Christians in Arab countries.

84% - 26% in less than 80 yrs in Lebanon is not a bad try.
80% to less than 15% in Bethlehem isnt a bad try either.

Try again.

Jairzinho:

The king of Jordan (incidentally the most liberal of all the arab leaders) is a direct descendant of Prophet Mohammed, they should have pursued this ‘directive’ to the letter.

Which further cements the fact that you know little on this issue. The king of Jordan is from Mecca . . . what is he doing ruling over Jordan? Has that question EVER occured to you fools led by the nose by arab imperialists? Was Jordan EVER a part of Mecca?

Jairzinho:

So don’t always think the worst of others. . . . most human beings are reasonable and well intentioned.
I wish you well. . .

I wish you well too.

Jairzinho:

[size=18pt]The Arabs can’t serve in the military and many other key sectors. (if indeed they are 1st class equal citizens, why not?)[/size]

I deliberately brought this out a second time because it is a symptom of the many many lies and propaganda out there about the Jewish state that needs to be constantly rebutted. Its sad that in the information age, we still have folks who peddle such falsehood.

Arabs CAN serve in the Israeli army . . .

seriously do i need to go bring up tons of evidence to disprove the above? Wow!

Jairzinho:

On the contrary, I respect everybody’s right to hold an opinion & will not refer to people as been ‘ignorant’. You are the kind of ‘religious’ people Jesus warned us against . All heat no light.

Not really . . . if you read the bible quite well you'll notice he seemed to warn us against legalistic "christians" who are full of the law but empty of any spirituality. they can quote the laws of Moses, but rarely ever apply them. Pacifists who think that long prayers and looking morose is what constitutes spirituality.

Jairzinho:

Full of insults never adding value. You claim to be a Christian ,but I honestly can’t see the light in you.

Actually Christ spent a good deal of His time calling the pharisees vipers, empty whitened sepulchres, hypcorites . . .

Jairzinho:

See why I said you never take time to READ, all you are interested in is to type a quick response, find below my initial post on the Christians in Iraq.

I took my time to READ your post on the allegation of arabs being second class citizens in Israel . . . if i didnt i would not have been able to give a semi-detailed rebuttal of the nonsense it contained. I doubt you even read the link.

Jairzinho:

I laugh in Hebrew, you claim to know so much about the history of Israel, yet you exhibit such crass ignorance it’s unbelievable.
Anyone reading the tonnes of garbage you churn out would think there’s any sense in what you are posting, but alas. . . .absolute RUBBISH.
I also notice the first thing you say whenever the issue of history of the ME comes up is “I'm not sure you understand the history. . . "

So much criticism . . . no where do you point out the "crass ignorance" or "tonnes of garbage" and provide us your own version of history.

Jairzinho:

Who made you an authority? Where are your references?
Don’t ever say that again ! State your point and desist from casting aspersions. . . .duh ! don’t think you know much about the history of Israel’ how dare you?

i might not be an authority but unlike you i have some knowledge on the background of the palestinian issue. Ignorant noise makers like you think because you've visited Dubai you can suddenly preach to the rest of us.

Jairzinho:

Let me start by saying I completely agree with the creation of the state of Israel in 1948, my main concern lies with the Palestinian aspiration for statehood.

This here is one of the major problems . . . the palestinians HAVE NO ASPIRATIONS FOR STATEHOOD. You only need to look at their actions and statements to come to that conclusions . . . rather they aspire to destroy Israel.

Following reasons (which you can confirm yourself by the way):

1. Prior to 1967, there WAS NO CRY FOR PALESTINIAN statehood when the lands in question where in Jordanian and Egyptian hands.
2. When FATAH was formed in 1964, it EXPLICITLY stated it had no right to sovereign claims to the West Bank and acknowledged Jordan's right to it. What changed between then and 1967?
3. Jordan IS the palestinian state, it was created on 75-78% of the historic palestine in 1922 and is 95% palestinian arab! Actually Arafat was Jordanian until he was expelled in 1970 along with the PLO (you know those goons like Fayad and Abass who now claim the westbank for a "state".

Those are CLEAR FACTS . . . you can whine from now till tomorrow.

Jairzinho:

1. The fact that Israel took those lands in the 1967 war doesn’t confer outright ownership. This is the 21st century,rational & judicial arbitration is the order of the day, not brute force-Kosovo, Bakassi are pointers to this. I appreciate Israel taking its security seriously & personally I wouldn’t hand back the Golan Heights to the Syrians cos of the strategic location. . .but Israel cannot continue to act with impunity.

Israel can only give the lands back to those it took if from in 1967 . . . Egypt and Jordan have made CLEAR that they dont want them back. I can produce REFERENCES to justify that fact (a thing you NEVER do but whine for my own references).

Jairzinho:

2. Stop quoting the UN, because the greatest flouter of UN resolutions in the world today is state of Israel, despite the fact that the state of Israel was formed by a resolution of the UN(181). Yes we could argue that the Arabs were on the wrong side of the truth in the early days, but we are talking about 2010. . . . . . over 60 years later ! Stop coming up with arguments that no longer hold water.

There was no point reading beyond that piece of propaganda. Anyone with half a brain knows that isnt remotely close to the facts but continue lapping up arab and moslem lies. It suits empty heads like you.

Jairzinho:

3. Is being Israeli ,a racial/ethnic identity or religious one?

And what has that to do with anything? why are hypocrites like you bothered about the identity of who an Israeli is while the palestinians have made clear that any state they found will be purely islamic and free of Jews? Are you bothered about the racial or ethnic identity of the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN?

Jairzinho:

4. Stop referencing IRRELEVANT information. Whatever FATAH said before(I need your ref however) is not important. What is the situation RIGHT NOW?

I'm sorry but you continously lose credibility here when you try to evade painful FACTS because they dont square with your own version of events. What PLO said before is relevant . . . Abass was a member of that FATAH started in 1964 just in case you werent aware.

To say that PLO's claim that the West Bank was Jordanian territory in 1964 is irrelevant is just laughable.

Jairzinho:

5. Jordan has left the Palestinians to their fate, the Israelis are screwing them as well and you’re here quoting FATAH constitution of 1963.
My personal solution to the whole problem would have been for Gaza to become part of Egypt & W/bank Jordan. But if that isn’t going to happen. . . .they should get their independence.

Gaza has gotten independence from Israel since 2005. Care to tell us how that is turning out?

davidylan:

He is a murderer and a terrorist. Stop glorifying it with false titles.

Then what do you call the people that murdered him in his room? Do you justify an eye for an eye?

So do the 4 men that murdered him deserve a hit on them by members of his family?

This has always being my point.

Nigerians should learn from this; to progress we need to KILL all those that stop us.

Americans did not pray to God in 1945, they drop atomic bomb on helpless Japs!

Isrealis did not go Synagogue to pray, they got fake-passport and kill their enermies!

When are we going to kill all those 'stealing NIGERIA dry'?

But instead we always go to church and pray. Useless country!

ow11:

Then what do you call the people that murdered him in his room? Do you justify an eye for an eye?

So do the 4 men that murdered him deserve a hit on them by members of his family?

The people that murdered him are killers. No it is not a belief in an eye for an eye. It is a case of living by the sword. . . .

Like I said it is a case of those who live by the sword, die by the sword. Most spies hardly have family or long term relationship. And when they do, their partner do not even know about what they get up to. Fact.

ElRazur:

The people that murdered him are killers. No it is not a belief in an eye for an eye. It is a case of living by the sword. . . .

Like I said it is a case of those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

Then I take it that we should expect a counter murder of the 11 suspected assassins in the not too distant future.

ow11:

Then I take it that we should expect a counter murder of the 11 suspected assassins in the not too distant future.

I am afraid things do not work like that. It may happen or may not happen. Have we seen the death of IBB, even though we know he is responsible for the death of Dele Giwa allegedly?

ElRazur:

I am afraid things do not work like that. It may happen or may not happen. Have we seen the death of IBB, even though we know he is responsible for the death of Dele Giwa allegedly?

That sort of nullifies your earlier statement of 'living by the sword', don't it? I think it does. . .

ow11:

That sort of nullifies your earlier statement of 'living by the sword', don't it? I think it does. . .

It depends on where you stand. If you live by the sword against a nation like Israel, US, UK, Russia et al. It is possible one will die by the sword - especially if one become an enemy of these states. On the other hand, Nations like Nigeria have shown time and time again that certain people can kill and get away with it.

ElRazur:

It depends on where you stand. If you live by the sword against a nation like Israel, US, UK, Russia et al. It is possible one will die by the sword - especially if one become an enemy of these states. On the other hand, Nations like Nigeria have shown time and time again that certain people can kill and get away with it.

Hmmm. . . It is very sad and thus means that these countries have only selective justice system or style. Well, It sure sucks to fight any of them. Since they can throw morality they preach into the gutter when they come under attack.

I wish Nigeria operated like that. Maybe people would think twice before harming others.

El razur- another one of "those" kinds of Nigerians.

smh


its a pity.





Do they feed some Nigerians (especially diasporan ones) some special kind of food that makes them have one track minds?