People receive all kinds of messages from God(s). One person experiences an angry God, another experience an all-loving God who cannot possibly be angry. There have been many precise and detailed accounts of what God has told people, but, these transmissions appear to contradict each other in a great number of details, and in style. This leads us to the conclusion that most of these experiences are untrue.

Once we admit that we can discount some experience of God, and simply state that some people, although they have personally experienced messages from God are actually wrong in trusting their experience, then we are faced with the atheistic possibility that actually all experiences of God are false. Einstein says that primitive and unscientific minds are drawn more heavily towards the idea of a personal God14 (1941); and this is borne out by the fact that intelligence is inversely related to religiosity.

Sometimes the most obvious explanations for what appear to be plain facts are actually erroneous.

Op do you believe that water is made up of hydrogen and oxygen? Can you separate and keep these constituents apart? If you believe the first question but cannot practice the later then you're lost somewhat.

There is a God who created heavens and the earth and the fullness thereof.

And the Bible concludes that "the fool says there is no God".

God is Right. No Contradictions about Him. It's The Light in you that is dim.

psucc:
Op do you believe that water is made up of hydrogen and oxygen? Can you separate and keep these constituents apart? If you believe the first question but cannot practice the later then you're lost somewhat.

There is a God who created heavens and the earth and the fullness thereof.

And the Bible concludes that "the fool says there is no God".

I don't know how to separate hydrogen from oxygen but this link can help You out.

https://www.homesciencetools.com/a/electrolysis-science-project

By the way, can you describe where HEAVEN is located?

orisa37:
God is Right. No Contradictions about Him. It's The Light in you that is dim.

The light in me is dim?

How does that sound to you?

What a Typical churchy mind response.

Can you please say something more logical.

Jabodo:

People receive all kinds of messages from God(s). One person experiences an angry God, another experience an all-loving God who cannot possibly be angry. There have been many precise and detailed accounts of what God has told people, but, these transmissions appear to contradict each other in a great number of details, and in style. This leads us to the conclusion that most of these experiences are untrue.

Once we admit that we can discount some experience of God, and simply state that some people, although they have personally experienced messages from God are actually wrong in trusting their experience, then we are faced with the atheistic possibility that actually all experiences of God are false. Einstein says that primitive and unscientific minds are drawn more heavily towards the idea of a personal God14 (1941); and this is borne out by the fact that intelligence is inversely related to religiosity. In other words, the cleverer you are, the less likely you are to believe in God. This is especially true for successful scientists. Mass opinion in Europe and most the developed world (apart from the USA) has turned against the idea that a God exists. As we learn more about the world, we realize that experiences we previously thought must have been caused by gods and spirits, are actually results of Human psychology.

Sometimes the most obvious explanations for what appear to be plain facts are actually erroneous. God is a phantasy projection of our imaginations and wants, not an existent being.

But then Einstein did state that “God does not play dice with the universe” he understood better than most that there was an order to the nature of things.

I do not necessarily believe in a creator God after-all we observe new worlds being formed everyday but I believe in a consciousness, let us call it a super-consciousness that permeates all fathomable existence, this is evidenced by mundane phenomena such as the gravitational effects of the moon for instance on our lives.

Rationalisation being Man’s only inherent genius, our attempts at understanding our reason to be and Man’s relationship to the universe in the grand scheme of things, in my view is what gave rise to religion. I believe religion in turn is what has led to the personification of what I refer to as the Divine consciousness….. as God.

Sarassin:


But then Einstein did state that “God does not play dice with the universe” he understood better than most that there was an order to the nature of things.

I do not necessarily believe in a creator God after-all we observe new worlds being formed everyday but I believe in a consciousness, let us call it a super-consciousness that permeates all fathomable existence, this is evidenced by mundane phenomena such as the gravitational effects of the moon for instance on our lives.

Rationalisation being Man’s only inherent genius, our attempts at understanding our reason to be and Man’s relationship to the universe in the grand scheme of things, in my view is what gave rise to religion. I believe religion in turn is what has led to the personification of what I refer to as the Divine consciousness….. as God.

Couldn't Have Put it Better. Well Said.

Sarassin:
But then Einstein did state that “God does not play dice with the universe”
he understood better than most that there was an order to the nature of things.

Einstein understood that the universe and of course, we included, are expressions of God

Sarassin:
I do not necessarily believe in a creator God after-all we observe new worlds being formed everyday

This is like saying:
I do not necessarily believe in a Nairaland creator god, after-all we observe new worlds being created and formed everyday on Nairaland..

The Nairaland creator god, created Nairaland, saw everything was good and then rested
Posters not only create and form new worlds everyday on Nairaland
but posters also god everyday on Nairaland

If its believed a Nairaland creator god, allows, albeit controlled plus within parameters, creation and power or influence (i.e. god) every moment,
then what's the hinder believing in a creator God, considering that without, we wont be observing new worlds being formed everyday?

Sarassin:
but I believe in a consciousness

Does this consciousness not possess influence and power?
So means you believe in a consciousness that possesses influence and power?

Sarassin:
let us call it a super-consciousness that permeates all fathomable existence

Calling it "super-consciousness" is not an exaggeration or hyperbolical expression of praise
so consciousness, qualitatively improved to super-consciousness, is a welcome and good step forward.

I agree with you that no one can fathom what this super-consciousness (i.e. God) has done from beginning to end of time
We can't see the whole scope of the super-consciousness/God's work from beginning to end.

Sarassin:
this is evidenced by mundane phenomena such as the gravitational effects of the moon for instance on our lives.

If so, then why dont you believe in a power or influence,
which essentially and effectively, is what God aka El means (i.e. super-consciousness)
which essentially and effectively, is what god, aka el means

In the Canaanite and Ugaritic pantheons, El, is the special name or title ascribed to a particular super-consciousness (i.e. "the god"
who is distinguished from their other super-consciousnesses (i.e. gods)

There are other peculiar gods (i.e. powers or influences) we can relate to
Strange as it might seem, some people do let their stomach or belly be their god, and so rather serve etctera their own belly.
People let alcohol be their god, and so come under its power and influence
People let fellow others be their god, and come under their manipulations, power and influence
People let drugs be their god, and come under its control, power and influence

You and I know that, Canaanite and Ugaritic pantheons accepts El's role as father of the gods (i.e. powers or influences)
So, isnt it evident, El is the "creator God" behind the creation of mundane phenomena such as the gravitational effects of the moon for instance on our lives?

Sarassin:
Rationalisation being Man’s only inherent genius

The travesty is that most people are prone to self-deceptive rationalisation

Sarassin:
our attempts at understanding our reason to be
and Man’s relationship to the universe in the grand scheme of things, in my view is what gave rise to religion.

"our reason to be" is a no brainer
It doesnt take a genius to understand that man’s lack of relationship with the super-consciousness gave rise to religion
When man's relationship with the super-consciousness took a turn for the worse, religion, waiting in the wings, welcomed man with open arms

What in your context, is religion?
I guess you mean, become and being institutionalized?
There you are then. Seared conscience, is what gave rise to religion

Sarassin:
I believe religion in turn is what has led to the personification of what I refer to as the Divine consciousness….. as God

Material reality is an attribute of The Divine Consciousness; God
just as there are other non material realities which also belong to The Divine Consciousness; God

Anthropomorphism, theophany and/or personification of The Divine Consciousness, started before religion crept in to see the light of day.

Unarguably and without any questioning, The Divine Consciousness is God
and this, The Divine Consciousness, whom you have reverence for, actually is and/or can be a personal providential God

MuttleyLaff:
Einstein understood that the universe and of course, we included, are expressions of God

Einstein was agnostic but I accept the above statement.

MuttleyLaff:

This is like saying: I do not necessarily believe in a Nairaland creator god, after-all we observe new worlds being created and formed everyday on Nairaland..
The Nairaland creator god, created Nairaland, saw everything was good and then rested
Posters not only create and form new worlds everyday on Nairaland
but posters also god everyday on Nairaland

If its believed a Nairaland creator god, allows, albeit controlled plus within parameters, creation and power or influence (i.e. god) every moment,
then what's the hinder believing in a creator God, considering that without, we wont be observing new worlds being formed everyday?

If I concede for the sake of argument that God created the universe, then I am persuaded that similarly God put his feet up, reclined in his hammock, lit up a cigar and abandoned the universe to random evolutionary process. In which case it is not a perfect world.

The question then remains, who created the creator?

MuttleyLaff:

Does this consciousness not possess influence and power? So means you believe in a consciousness that possesses influence and power?

Clearly there are forces at work in the universe. What we term ‘influence’ and ‘power’ would be inherent attributes of this super-consciousness as would creative and destructive forces.

MuttleyLaff:

If so, then why dont you believe in a power or influence, which essentially and effectively, is what God aka El means (i.e. super-consciousness)
which essentially and effectively, is what god, aka el means

In the Canaanite and Ugaritic pantheons, El, is the special name or title ascribed to a particular super-consciousness (i.e. "the god"
who is distinguished from their other super-consciousnesses (i.e. gods)

There are other peculiar gods (i.e. powers or influences) we can relate to
Strange as it might seem, some people do let their stomach or belly be their god, and so rather serve etctera their own belly.
People let alcohol be their god, and so come under its power and influence
People let fellow others be their god, and come under their manipulations, power and influence
People let drugs be their god, and come under its control, power and influence

You and I know that, Canaanite and Ugaritic pantheons accepts El's role as father of the gods (i.e. powers or influences)
So, isnt it evident, El is the "creator God" behind the creation of mundane phenomena such as the gravitational effects of the moon for instance on our lives?

As I wrote above, I fully believe that there are forces at work in the universe, but I believe that Man’s rationalisation and personalisation of his understanding of God is intrinsically flawed because it is evolutionary in nature, our understanding of the nature of things completely changes every hundred years or so, and now, even less. In my view it is beyond Man to establish the primacy of his deity or God, why? Because a personalised supreme creator God is no longer the absolute certainty that it was say 500 years ago.

I accept the concept of El of the Canaanite pantheon as a God-King, even as it translates into the supreme deities of other cultures, i.e the Hindu Trimurti of Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva who are responsible for the creation, existence and destruction of the universe. These are personalised aspects of the Divine consciousness.

The travesty is that most people are prone to self-deceptive rationalisation

That is a great shame indeed.

What in your context, is religion? I guess you mean, become and being institutionalized? There you are then. Seared conscience, is what gave rise to religion

I define religion as the creation and worship of a deity by common consent.
Perhaps it was better for Man to have lost his connection to super-consciousness…and then sought it as opposed to finding solace in the suffocating and mind-numbing arms of religion.

Material reality is an attribute of The Divine Consciousness; God
just as there are other non material realities which also belong to The Divine Consciousness; God

Anthropomorphism, theophany and/or personification of The Divine Consciousness, started before religion crept in to see the light of day.

Unarguably and without any questioning, The Divine Consciousness is God
and this, The Divine Consciousness, whom you have reverence for, actually is and/or can be a personal providential God

Great statement. We are in agreement up to a point, I say that the Divine consciousness or perhaps even the Demiurge is impersonal and can be whatever we wish it to be within its own defined parameters of universal survival except that typically Man has chosen the path of least resistance and cast God in his own image.

Sarassin:
Einstein was agnostic but I accept the above statement.

Are you 99.999% sure Einstein was agnostic?

Sarassin:
If I concede for the sake of argument that God created the universe,
then I am persuaded that similarly God put his feet up, reclined in his hammock,
lit up a cigar and abandoned the universe to random evolutionary process

C'mon now. Abandoned the universe to random evolutionary process? Really?
Macro, possibly, to any extent, crossed your mind?

Sarassin:
In which case it is not a perfect world.

Don't fret over a perfect world, as it would happen in sequence and in due course

Sarassin:
The question then remains, who created the creator?

The question is an invalid one because the super-consciousness (i.e. God) is an uncreated Self Existing creator.

Sarassin:
Clearly there are forces at work in the universe.
What we term ‘influence’ and ‘power’ would be inherent attributes of this super-consciousness as would creative and destructive forces.

So you believe the super-consciousness (i.e. God) possesses capabilities on par with being creative and destructive forces
and accept and associate, El, aka the super-consciousness (i.e. God) with power then?

MuttleyLaff:
Are you 99.999% sure Einstein was agnostic?

Well as far as my memory serves me, I might drop it by 0.0001%

MuttleyLaff:



C'mon now. Abandoned the universe to random evolutionary process? Really? Macro, possibly, to any extent, crossed your mind?

Sure, but if the creator God willed the sun into existence imminently, why wait a thousand years for a microbe?

MuttleyLaff:

Don't fret over a perfect world, it would happen in sequence and in due course

Sure, but you said “God saw that world was perfect”, are you rowing back from that position?

MuttleyLaff:

It is an invalid question because the super-consciousness (i.e. God) is an uncreated Self Existing creator of the universe

If you say so.

MuttleyLaff:

So you believe the super-consciousness (i.e. God) possesses capabilities on par with being creative and destructive forces
and accept and associate, El, aka the super-consciousness (i.e. God) with power then?

I accept that the depictions of ancient Canaanite pantheon reflected their limited knowledge of Divine nature as much as that of the Hindu Triumvirate and others, my point was that they are limited in nature, as they must be.

Sarassin:
Well as far as my memory serves me, I might drop it by 0.0001%

You got the jitters
Einstein believed in God albeit not a personal God

Sarassin:
Sure, but if the creator God willed the sun into existence imminently, why wait a thousand years for a microbe?

Suggested macro earlier
so how about, the wait is due to how the algorithm was written?

Sarassin:
Sure, but you said “God saw that world was perfect”, are you rowing back from that position?

No, not rowing back from the "God saw that everything He created or made was good" position
If your memory serves you, you'll recall that unlike each preceeding creation declared good, the good noun or adjective wasnt used for man
I bet you know why?

Sarassin:
If you say so

Yes, affirmatively saying so
and you know I said so because there isnt any valid logic lying underneath nor standing behind the question

Sarassin:
I accept that the depictions of ancient Canaanite pantheon reflected their limited knowledge of Divine nature as much as that of the Hindu Triumvirate and others,
my point was that they are limited in nature, as they must be

Good
but Re: "influence’ and ‘power’ would be inherent attributes of this super-consciousness as would creative and destructive forces""
I was giving information that the "this super-consciousness" is God, otherwise also known as El

OP, what people are experiencing are the gods and not God Almighty. I for one experienced the god called Atum and he gave me this
https://www.nairaland.com/2938907/doctrine-ufos
Others in the past have experienced Yahweh, Ra, Allah, Baal, Ekron, Mazda, Moloch, Vishnu, etc and they have given them something. That's why the experiences we share are different. Many of these gods are the author of the world confusion today, rather than simply telling their messenger that they are not actually the uncreated creator, they go ahead to say that they are. Then they give their philosophy to their messengers as the word of God. You can know a true and unbiased philosophy if its content isn't about worshipping the giver of it or if the god who gives it doesn't claim to be God Almighty, the first cause and that's what the DOCTUFOS of Truth, the history book of the world and the universe has brought to humanity today.

MuttleyLaff:


Suggested macro earlier so how about, the wait is due to how the algorithm was written?

I will stick to my original premise that is random evolutionary process.

MuttleyLaff:

No, not rowing back from the "God saw that everything He created or made was good" position
If your memory serves you, you'll recall that unlike each preceeding creation declared good, the good noun or adjective wasnt used for man
I bet you know why?

Well of course, Man was ascribed freewill and that in itself precludes the possibility of perfection i.e the ability of Man to reject God’s dominion. Nevertheless we have to assume that God, if he created anything at all, created all perfect otherwise what is the point of God as a creator of imperfection?

MuttleyLaff:

Yes, affirmatively saying so and you know I said so because there isnt any valid logic lying underneath nor standing behind the question

An “un-created self-existing creator” is an oxymoron.

MuttleyLaff:

Good
but Re: "influence’ and ‘power’ would be inherent attributes of this super-consciousness as would creative and destructive forces""
I was giving information that the "this super-consciousness" is God, otherwise also known as El

I believe that the super-consciousness is the Divine. The Demiurge (the longing of life for itself inherent in each of us) is the creative and destructive aspect of the Divine. Mankind will continue to personify their aspects and attributes until it knows better.

orisa37:
God is Right. No Contradictions about Him. It's The Light in you that is dim.

Absolutely true. Stay blessed Sir.