Ken4Christ:


The arguments of Daddy Freeze against tithing are null and void. You can't use a law that has been abolished to judge the new testament Saints. .

His argument don’t make sense . I wonder the jumping the tithe eaters are doing with him.

I never said Apostle Paul was in error. I only said I don't agree with his statement that Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedec. It is up to you to point where I am wrong in the analysis of the encounter Abraham had with Melchizedec.

My submission is this. How can Abraham give 10% of the spoils he vowed he will not collect.

And he mentioned the portion of the spoils he took. He did not include the 10% he gave to Melchizedec as part of the spoils.

Is it sane to give away part of the money or goods you voluntarily recovered without the permission of the owner of the goods.

The war Abraham fought was to recover the goods and the people who were taken captive. The goods are that of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah and that of his nephew Lot.

Abraham was only interested in rescuing his nephew, Lot. He was not interested in the goods because the goods do not belong to him. And there was no record he collected spoils from the other Kings he conquered. So please point my errors to me.

Even our Lord Jesus didn't achieve 100% in his prophecies. There are two prophecies that didn't come to pass the way he said it. That doesn't diminish my reverence for him. He is still my Lord and Saviour.

petra1:

Which one be Petra own here now

lol....no vex.. its just that his "tithe revelation " made me remember U!

Ken4Christ:
I never said Apostle Paul was in error. I only said I don't agree with his statement that Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedec.



Even our Lord Jesus didn't achieve 100% in his prophecies. There are two prophecies that didn't come to pass the way he said it. That doesn't diminish my reverence for him. He is still my Lord and Saviour.

These your two statements CLEARLY show that you have a lot of learning to do like I counselled before now.

When Paul, or any writer of scriptures for that matter say something and you DISAGREE with what they said, you're not disagreeing with them, you're disagreeing with God. "All scripture is God-breathed " means they were writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Then as to Jesus's prediction not being 100% accurate I don't know what to begin to make of you!

I hope you know that what you're saying is that the God-man was not as perfect as he was made out to be. Indeed you're saying that God was not 100% accurate, and do you know the IMPLICATIONS of that?

If you are a Christian you need to do like I've said before: go back to Children Sunday School to learn the BASICS of Christianity.

Ken4Christ:
I never said Apostle Paul was in error. I only said I don't agree with his statement that Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedec. It is up to you to point where I am wrong in the analysis of the encounter Abraham had with Melchizedec.

My submission is this. How can Abraham give 10% of the spoils he vowed he will not collect.

And he mentioned the portion of the spoils he took. He did not include the 10% he gave to Melchizedec as part of the spoils.

Is it sane to give away part of the money or goods you voluntarily recovered without the permission of the owner of the goods.

The war Abraham fought was to recover the goods and the people who were taken captive. The goods are that of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah and that of his nephew Lot.

Abraham was only interested in rescuing his nephew, Lot. He was not interested in the goods because the goods do not belong to him. And there was no record he collected spoils from the other Kings he conquered. So please point my errors to me.

Even our Lord Jesus didn't achieve 100% in his prophecies. There are two prophecies that didn't come to pass the way he said it. That doesn't diminish my reverence for him. He is still my Lord and Saviour.

In summary, you have decided to be irrational in following Christianity, even if I point out the many contradictions in the Bible stories. That's fine.

But don't think you have any defence for any criticism against the church. Just say you don't care anyways... Simple.

ScepticalPyrrho:
In summary, you have decided to be irrational in following Christianity, even if I point out Jesus' errors. That's fine.

But don't think you have any defence for any criticism against the church. Just say you don't care anyways... Simple.

Jesus didn't have errors. Two prophecies he made didn't come to fulfillment because of the mystery of the Church which was not revealed until Jesus rose from the dead. If you don't point it out, the unbelievers will use it to discredit Christianity and they are doing it already.

Those particular Scripture was used by a Pastor to prove that the rapture will not take place and so many already believed him.

plainbibletruth:


These your two statements CLEARLY show that you have a lot of learning to do like I counselled before now.

When Paul, or any writer of scriptures for that matter say something and you DISAGREE with what they said, you're not disagreeing with them, you're disagreeing with God. "All scripture is God-breathed " means they were writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Then as to Jesus's prediction not being 100% accurate I don't know what to begin to make of you!

I hope you know that what you're saying is that the God-man was not as perfect as he was made out to be. Indeed you're saying that God was not 100% accurate, and do you know the IMPLICATIONS of that?

If you are a Christian you need to do like I've said before: go back to Children Sunday School to learn the BASICS of Christianity.

Jesus is God but on earth he was fully man. He therefore had limitations in knowledge as a man. He had to be anointed by the Holy Spirit to function in the supernatural. I thought you were going to ask what where the prophecies to know if I was telling the truth.

Everything in the Bible is not necessarily God's word. The devil spoke and it was also recorded. Even some men spoke their opinions and they were recorded. A donkey also spoke and it was recorded. Will you say that the word of the donkey and the devil is anointed because it's in the Bible?

Ken4Christ:


Jesus didn't have errors. Two prophecies he made didn't come to fulfillment because of the mystery of the Church which was not revealed until Jesus rose from the dead. If you don't point it out, the unbelievers will use it to discredit Christianity and they are doing it already.

Those particular Scripture was used by a Pastor to prove that the rapture will not take place and so many already believed him.

We can keep arguing about the Bible's errors....

The question is whether or not you want to employ your intellect on the subject.

But you have goofed with your op, nothing is go8ng to change that. Go and read the Bible more, if you have problems with Jesus stories.

ScepticalPyrrho:
We can keep arguing about the Bible's errors....

The question is whether or not you want to employ your intellect on the subject.

But you have goofed with your op, nothing is go8ng to change that. Go and read the Bible more, if you have problems with Jesus stories.

I don't have problems with the story and personal revelation of who Jesus is. He is my Lord and personal Saviour. It is however not the subject of this thread.

You support Daddy Freeze in his anti Tithe Crusades. But I have proved to you that Jesus wants us to give much more even up to 100% of what we have. Challenge me on this submission with Scriptures.

Ken4Christ:


Jesus is God but on earth he was fully man. He therefore had limitations in knowledge as a man. He had to be anointed by the Holy Spirit to function in the supernatural. I thought you were going to ask what where the prophecies to know if I was telling the truth.

Everything in the Bible is not necessarily God's word. The devil spoke and it was also recorded. Even some men spoke their opinions and they were recorded. A donkey also spoke and it was recorded. Will you say that the word of the donkey and the devil is anointed because it's in the Bible?

Hope you know that you've not stayed with the issues. This happens when you're so eager to reply a post rather than first take time to see the point being made.

It is not about whether what the devil said or what a donkey said is recorded in Scripture. It is that God DEEMED IT FIT to have recorded for us what we have in Scripture. And what is recorded is the TRUTH concerning any particular incident or matter. I hope this is plain enough for you.

Again, it's not about winning an argument.

You said you disagreed with what Apostle Paul said. The question then, for any reader would be: why do you disagree with Paul? I guess it's because you disagree when you think that what he is saying is his PERSONAL opinion.

So, a question for you: Why do you think Hebrews chapter 7:4 "Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils" is the personal opinion of the writer?

Please limit yourself to DIRECTLY answering this question as stated.

On your second statement which I refered to; why would you want to think for me? Your statements are CLEAR - "Even our Lord Jesus didn't achieve 100% in his prophecies." and this: "Our Lord Jesus even had two prophecies that failed because he was 100% human on earth and didn't know all things."

So another question: What exactly are you trying to point out by these statements so that you don't say we misunderstood you?

plainbibletruth:


Hope you know that you've not stayed with the issues. This happens when you're so eager to reply a post rather than first take time to see the point being made.

It is not about whether what the devil said or what a donkey said is recorded in Scripture. It is that God DEEMED IT FIT to have recorded for us what we have in Scripture. And what is recorded is the TRUTH concerning any particular incident or matter. I hope this is plain enough for you.

Again, it's not about winning an argument.

You said you disagreed with what Apostle Paul said. The question then, for any reader would be: why do you disagree with Paul? I guess it's because you disagree when you think that what he is saying is his PERSONAL opinion.

So, a question for you: Why do you think Hebrews chapter 7:4 "Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils" is the personal opinion of the writer?

Please limit yourself to DIRECTLY answering this question as stated.

On your second statement which I refered to; why would you want to think for me? Your statements are CLEAR - "Even our Lord Jesus didn't achieve 100% in his prophecies." and this: "Our Lord Jesus even had two prophecies that failed because he was 100% human on earth and didn't know all things."

So another question: What exactly are you trying to point out by these statements so that you don't say we misunderstood you?

Everything in the Bible is not truth but everything is truly stated. For instance, Job made quite a few remarks in his trying moments. Some of these remarks are not true.

He said,

Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

We know this statement is not true.

It is the devil who comes to steal, kill and destroy.

Every good and perfect gift comes from God.

I guess you understand what I mean by every word in the Bible is not true because it also contains people's personal opinions. You have to judge within the context what is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Even Apostle in some of his submissions will say, I but not the Lord. He emphasized sometimes when he wrote his personal opinions.

Before, I speak more on Abraham and the spoils he was said to have offered, I want to point to you two failed prophecies of our Lord Jesus. This is not to discredit him or discredit Christianity but I will explain to you why those prophecies failed. And it is also a pointer that our Lord Jesus was 100% human while he was on earth.

Matthew 16:27-28

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Verse 28 is of particular interest. He said some of them standing there at the time he made this statement will not taste death till they see him coming in his kingdom. He was talking about his second coming if you read verse 27. These men are dead and gone but Jesus hasn't come yet. What happened? This I will explain later.

The second failed prophecy is

Matthew 24:31-34
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. note

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. note

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Look at verse 34. This generation is a definite article. He is talking about the particular generation he was addressing. They are dead and gone but the events he spoke about are yet to happen.

I will explain later why this prophecies failed if you care to know.

I am not in the class of people that disproves the coming of our Lord Jesus. I believe in the rapture and I know Jesus is coming back. But if we don't explain why this prophecies failed, unbelievers and false teachers will use them to confuse gullible souls that rapture will not take place and that Jesus is not coming back. And there is a video by one Pastor on that. And he has drawn followers to himself who now believe Jesus is not coming back.

Now concerning Apostle Paul submission. He read the account of Abraham's encounter with Melchizedec just like you and me read it today. He is not the writer of the book of Genesis and he was not there when the encounter took place. His submission that Abraham gave 10% of the spoils of the war has nothing to do with being inspired by the Holy Spirit. It has to do with how he understood the story.

You will not tell me that because they are Apostles, they understand everything in the Bible. No, they don't. Even Apostle Peter said some things Paul wrote are hard to understand. If they could understand all Scriptures that easily because they are Apostles, Peter will not make such comments.

So, based on my personal study of what transpired between Abraham and Melchizedec, I disagreed with Apostle Paul on his submission.

Before you crucify me, first ask why I disagree and correct me if I am wrong.

Ken4Christ:
I don't have problems with the story and personal revelation of who Jesus is.
He is my Lord and personal Saviour. It is however not the subject of this thread

Fair do's

Ken4Christ:
You support Daddy Freeze in his anti Tithe Crusades

You cant see the wood for the tithe-trees

Freeze is not anti-tithe, same way, he is not opposed to the law of gravity
Freeze' crusade is not anti-tithe but is a crusade against the exploitation of people in the guise of tithe

Ken4Christ:
But I have proved to you that Jesus wants us to give much more even up to 100% of what we have

SMH. Except for proving you're becoming good at making gaffes after gaffes
you've proved nada that Jesus wants us to give much more even up to 100% of what we have

Ken4Christ:
Challenge me on this submission with Scriptures.

If you have intimate knowledge of Jesus' modus operandi,
you wouldnt be using that single incident as a one-size-fits-all approach for every believer

Ken4Christ:

Everything in the Bible is not truth but everything is truly stated.
.......
I guess you understand what I mean by every word in the Bible is not true because it also contains people's personal opinions. You have to judge within the context what is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Even Apostle in some of his submissions will say, I but not the Lord. He emphasized sometimes when he wrote his personal opinions.

Before, I speak more on Abraham and the spoils he was said to have offered, I want to point to you two failed prophecies of our Lord Jesus.
..........

I will explain later why this prophecies failed if you care to know.
.........
He is not the writer of the book of Genesis and he was not there when the encounter took place. His submission that Abraham gave 10% of the spoils of the war has nothing to do with being inspired by the Holy Spirit. It has to do with how he understood the story.

You will not tell me that because they are Apostles, they understand everything in the Bible. No, they don't.
......

So, based on my personal study of what transpired between Abraham and Melchizedec, I disagreed with Apostle Paul on his submission.

Before you crucify me, first ask why I disagree and correct me if I am wrong.

All Scripture is God-breathed [given by divine inspiration] and is profitable for instruction, for conviction [of sin], for correction [of error and restoration to obedience], for training in righteousness [learning to live in conformity to God’s will, both publicly and privately--behaving honorably with personal integrity and moral courage];
2 TIMOTHY 3:16 AMP

Cheers!!

plainbibletruth:


All Scripture is God-breathed [given by divine inspiration] and is profitable for instruction, for conviction [of sin], for correction [of error and restoration to obedience], for training in righteousness [learning to live in conformity to God’s will, both publicly and privately--behaving honorably with personal integrity and moral courage];
2 TIMOTHY 3:16 AMP

Cheers!!

All Scriptures including the statements credited to Satan since they are also contained in the Bible? longevity does not mean legality. Get into the deeper truth of God's word and know where to draw the line between what is inspired by the Holy Spirit and the opinions of the writer.

MuttleyLaff:
Fair do's

You cant see the wood for the tithe-trees

Freeze is not anti-tithe, same way, he is not opposed to the law of gravity
Freeze' crusade is not anti-tithe but is a crusade against the exploitation of people in the guise of tithe

SMH. Except for proving you're becoming good at making gaffes after gaffes
you've proved nada that Jesus wants us to give much more even up to 100% of what we have

If you have intimate knowledge of Jesus' modus operandi,
you wouldnt be using that single incident as a one-size-fits-all approach for every believer

Fighting against Pastors who exploit doesn't mean you have to ask people to completely withdraw their support. What about Pastors who are doing the right things? If those Pastors are called by God, let God judge them.

Romans 14:4.
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

i refuse to be carried away by the Grievous error being circulated by one archdevil from hell called Daddy freeze,who in his characteristically demonic manner,is trying to upturn well established scriptures to stand on thier head. As a matter of fact,tithing predates Adeboye or any other pastor. Tithes have become part of christianity since the times of the Apostles and it has its roots in the scriptures.Daddy freeze and his admirers can spend the rest of their lives advocating against it,it aint gonna change nothing. God bless all tithers who honor God with their substances.

planetzoom:



As a matter of fact,tithing predates Adeboye or any other pastor.

Tithes have become part of christianity since the times of the Apostles and it has its roots in the scriptures.

These two statements from U must definitely have a scripture to back it up right?
So can U provide scriptures for ur assertions?

Ken4Christ:
Fighting against Pastors who exploit doesn't mean you have to ask people to completely withdraw their support.

I am glad you accept and agree that some, if not most "pastors" exploit,
however no one is fighting against these "pastors" without provocation

Doesn't mean you have to ask people to completely withdraw their support from what?
Do you mean dont completely withdraw their support from being exploited and thought of as sheep to be slaughtered?

Ken4Christ:
What about Pastors who are doing the right things?

"pastors" who are doing the right thing are few and far in between

Ken4Christ:
If those Pastors are called by God, let God judge them.

Tithes have come to be more important than the "weightier matters of the Law"
so we now have to disregard the lack of justice, fairness and the love of God
and not talk about what is causing it and any perpetrating it?

Ken4Christ:
Romans 14:4.
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth.
Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

As a self-confessed/self-acclaimed "thorough Bible student who don't just make comments" sic
you are, the perfect pretender to the throne
When people quote a text out of context, they are nine times out of ten, quoting it under pretext
What is the relevance of Romans 14:4 to this matter?
You have just implied that Romans 14:4, is testament of the liberty, to exploit others and be quiet about it

You've implied, dont speak out for the downtrodden,
dont speak out for those financially exploited or treated badly by "pastors" in power
According to you, all this, is a free-for-all because of Romans 14:4
How did you manage, again, to misinterpret another scripture to an understanding that is not correct?

MuttleyLaff:
I am glad you accept and agree that some, if not most "pastors" exploit,
however no one is fighting against these "pastors" without provocation

Doesn't mean you have to ask people to completely withdraw their support from what?
Do you mean dont completely withdraw their support from being exploited and thought of as sheep to be slaughtered?

"pastors" who are doing the right thing are few and far in between

Tithes have come to be more important than the "weightier matters of the Law"
so we now have to disregard the lack of justice, fairness and the love of God
and not talk about what is causing it and any perpetrating it?

As a self-confessed/self-acclaimed "thorough Bible student who don't just make comments" sic
you are, the perfect pretender to the throne
When people quote a text out of context, they are nine times out of ten, quoting it under pretext
What is the relevance of Romans 14:4 to this matter?
You have just implied that Romans 14:4, is testament of the liberty, to exploit others and be quiet about it

You've implied, dont speak out for the downtrodden,
dont speak out for those financially exploited or treated badly by "pastors" in power
According to you, all this, is a free-for-all because of Romans 14:4
How did you manage, again, to misinterpret another scripture to an understanding that is not correct?

Remember Aaron and Miriam who spoke against Moses. Miriam became leprous. Go on and criticize. When judgment comes on you, you will seek for deliverance.

planetzoom:
i refuse to be carried away by the Grievous error being circulated by one archdevil from hell called Daddy freeze,who in his characteristically demonic manner,is trying to upturn well established scriptures to stand on thier head. As a matter of fact,tithing predates Adeboye or any other pastor. Tithes have become part of christianity since the times of the Apostles and it has its roots in the scriptures.Daddy freeze and his admirers can spend the rest of their lives advocating against it,it aint gonna change nothing. God bless all tithers who honor God with their substances.

Nice contribution

Ken4Christ:
Remember Aaron and Miriam who spoke against Moses

Gotten used to reading you misinterpret same bible narratives, seasoned Bible students have interpreted correctly

Ken4Christ:
Miriam became leprous.
Go on and criticize.
When judgment comes on you, you will seek for deliverance.

Criticize and be damned, you mean?
If Jesus, for a casual visit, was to come back to earth here, now,
please tell, what do you suppose Jesus would do?

christemmbassey:
the most annoying of them all is the shameless response of daddies GOs.
someone has itemised why he believes tithes collection is a scam,instead of you responding item by item with relevant scriptures to backup ur stand you start. dancing around and turned church service to standup Nigeria (comedy show) .
I Am comforted, BC what is happening in the church today shows that God has answered our prayers, for the first time in history of the church in Nigeria, the major tithes collectors have been forced to defend their fraudulent practice of forcing innocent believers to part with their hard earned money at the end of each month.

What do you want them to say?
Most are ignorant of the fraudulent tithe scheme.
Believe me my bro, they don't even know it's wrong.Grace are in sizes.
I believe we are highly blessed to "know"
The scam in tithing.

MuttleyLaff:
Gotten used to reading you misinterpret same bible narratives, seasoned Bible students have interpreted correctly

Criticize and be damned, you mean?
If Jesus, for a casual visit, was to come back to earth here, now,
please tell, what do you suppose Jesus would do?

There is constructive criticism. criticizing and insulting men of God at the same time is not right. And you now talk as if all men of God are the same. If this is your submission, then God has failed to raise a faithful servant for himself. Why not volunteer to be one of his servant and set the example for others to follow.

Ken4Christ:
There is constructive criticism.
Criticizing and insulting men of God at the same time is not right.

Oh, so you know about what is right?
Hmm, interesting... SMH

Ken4Christ:
And you now talk as if all men of God are the same

Remember up above, I wrote:
"pastors" who are doing the right thing are few and far in between

Ken4Christ:
If this is your submission, then God has failed to raise a faithful servant for himself.
Why not volunteer to be one of his servant and set the example for others to follow.

We can start going round in circles, seems that is what you like

openmine:

These two statements from U must definitely have a scripture to back it up right?
So can U provide scriptures for ur assertions?

Good!

cc Planetzoom , answer please

Ken4Christ:
I never said Apostle Paul was in error. I only said I don't agree with his statement that Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedec.

see talk o, Why will u not agree with him if u don't think he was in error ?

if he was right, won't you agree with him ?

stop this jokes Bro

petra1:


His argument don’t make sense . I wonder the jumping the tithe eaters are doing with him.

His argument won't make sense , how would it when you can't point where Any of the apostles collect tithe .

Ken4Christ:


The arguments of Daddy Freeze against tithing are null and void. You can't use a law that has been abolished to judge the new testament Saints. The law of Moses has been abolished as such cannot be used to judge the Church. It's like trying to use the American Constitution in the Nigeria law court. It is impossible.

We pay tithe not as a matter of law but by revelation and love. That is why some of use even give much more than our tithes to God.

Examine the teachings of Jesus on giving. Tithe which is just 10% is too small compared with what Jesus demanded we should give. Jesus wants you to give 100%. So, start throwing stones on Jesus for demanding 100%.

which one did Jesus collect as our example, 10% or 100%?