awesomeJ:

Like I said, the evidence cannot be the kind of fact as science would require. This is not science, if you want evidence, it's gonna be an experience. How do you proof someone loves you, it's basically in your experience of their actions towards you.

Perhaps I should start with today's testimonies.

There were about 8 people in all who came out for testimonies in the second service. I will share 3 of them which I think you may be least skeptical about.

1. The first guy was driving in the estate on Mon Jan 29th, and as he drove past the church, he felt an urge within him if to just stop by the church to pray. So he went in, prayed his heart out, and didn't mind whoever else was there with him in the auditorium. Thereafter, he drove straight to the hospital where his wife had been since Sunday Jan 28th due to prolonged labour. About 2 hours after he arrived, the wife delivered safely.
This was a young smart-looking guy that you'd ordinarily not consider to be religious.
If that was all to the story, it wouldn't have moved much people.

Then he added this: "If you had not seen a terror before, you would wonder why people feared one"...sort of " exactly eight years ago, I got married to my first wife, and exactly 6 years ago, she was ready to deliver our first child, she had this same prolonged labour, and she and the baby were lost to it"

Turned out that was his first time in the Church. How would you convince such a person against Faith in God?

Lolz.... I guess god delivered her of the baby, so when she is in labour for his next child he should simply take her to the church and save everyone's time and effort.

Finally was this couple. Theirs was most overwhelming.
Got married in 2013, and despite much expectations, there were no babies. So in 2014, the husband suggested that they went for medical check up (you probably don't think Christians do).

After all the examinations, they found two fundamental issues wrong with the wife's reproductive system:
1. Her ovaries were not functioning.
2. Her womb was too small at 5 inches versus 6-7 inches that women should have. So it was too small, it wouldn't hold a baby.

So basically, all hope was lost for them medically, if there were any ways around it, I'm sure the doctors would have informed them, but surely, there wasn't.

So the couple took a step of faith, and emptied their bank accounts to the church, and by faith they exchanged the doctors' report for that seed.

Then in 2016, During one of the combined services at the redemption camp, Daddy Adeboye told people to pray that if there was any part of their bodies that wasn't functioning well, God should fix, and if it isn't fixable, God who has the spares should replace, she prayed that prayer, and months after in February 2018, They were standing in front of the congregation with their bouncing set of twins.

The womb that was measured to be too small to hold one baby held two -a boy and a girl safely for nine months.
Mind you, their prior experience validates the doctors' report, so don't bring the argument about doctors being wrong. plus measuring womb size and detecting nonfunctional ovaries are not things doctors can be easily wrong about.

It didn't end there.

After delivery the doctors examined the girl, and found that she had a low sugar level, the husband used the anointing oil on her and an anointed handkerchief as well, 2 hours later, the sugar level was normal. The baby boy was also said to have Jaundice, the husband used the anointing oil and handkerchief on him as well, and 3 hours later, the Jaundice was gone from the boy?

Tell me Seun, how would you question such a testimony?

obiZEAL:

Lolz.... I guess god delivered her of the baby, so when she is in labour for his next child he should simply take her to the church and save everyone's time and effort.

The guy self fall person hand! To imagine, na mundane things, him wan take convince conc atheist



Awesomej, u try sha. At least, u pull crowd.

awesomeJ:
Finally was this couple. Theirs was most overwhelming.
Got married in 2013, and despite much expectations, their were no babies. So in 2014, the husband suggested that they went for medical check up (you probably don't think Christians do).

After all the examinations, they found two fundamental issues wrong with the wife's reproductive system:
1. Her ovaries were not functioning.
2. Her womb was too small at 5 inches versus 6-7 inches that women should have. So it was too small, it wouldn't hold a baby.

So basically, all hope was lost for them medically, if there were any ways around it, I'm sure the doctors would have informed them, but surely, there wasn't.

So the couple took a step of faith, and emptied their bank accounts to the church, and by faith they exchanged the doctors' report for that seed.

Then in 2016, During one of the combined services at the redemption camp, Daddy Adeboye told people to pray that if there was any part of their bodies that wasn't functioning well, God should fix, and if it isn't fixable, God who has the spares should replace, she prayed that prayer, and months after in February 2018, They was standing in front of the congregation with their bouncing set of twins.

The womb that was measured to be too small to hold one baby held two -a boy and a girl safely for nine months.
Mind you, their prior experience validates the doctors' report, so don't bring the argument about doctors being wrong. plus measuring womb size and detecting nonfunctional ovaries are not things doctors can be easily wrong about.

It didn't end there.

After delivery the doctors examined the girl, and found that she had a low sugar level, the husband used the anointing oil on her and an anointed handkerchief as well, 2 hours later, the sugar level was normal. The baby boy was also said to have Jaundice, the husband used the anointing oil and handkerchief on him as well, and 3 hours later, the Jaundice was gone from the boy?

Tell me Seun, how would you question such a testimony?

;DYou can't convince any self respecting atheist with all these

P.s I am a christain

Now, I was only in one church, and these testimonies were just 3 out of the 8 shared in just one of the two services in the church. Now there are about 235 parishes under the province, Lagos alone has about 68 provinces, and RCCG is just one out of the thousands of denominations on the globe, and ours is just one out of the over 200 generations that have lived since Christ. Today was just one service day out of over 5000 that'll be in every 100-year generation. Now put these numbers together and see how vast the testimonies will be of the experience people have had of God globally over the years. And there are yet several people who don't even share their testimonies despite how well they acknowledge them.

hmmm

So let me get your objections to the third testimony especially, thereafter, we'll move to the part of the evidence that'll be personal to you.

I'll be waiting on you Seun.

hopefulLandlord:
This is gonna be disappointing, as always

...and it was indeed disappointing, you must be a prophet

obiZEAL:
...and it was indeed disappointing, you must be a prophet

can't use was for something that isn't over now can you?

awesomeJ:
So let me get your objections to the third testimony especially, thereafter, we'll move to the part of the evidence that'll be personal to you.

I'll be waiting on you Seun.

You should be apologising for wasting people's time.

awesomeJ:

can't use was for something that isn't over now can you?

Its over for me man...ouch, I just remembered, this is just for s.eun. Goodluck bro

obiZEAL:



You should be apologising for wasting people's time.

Not anyone I invited. I'd be cool if only Seun viewed the posts. If I wanted crowd, this wouldn't be my first thread in 2 years, and I know what section to post in for people's remarks.

I gave the modality right before I started, what do you think has changed? And I mentioned to someone that he'd modify his expectations, because it's basically an experience for Seun. That's why the topic has his name alone, and not "atheists".

awesomeJ:

Not anyone I invited. I'd be cool if only Seun viewed the posts. If I wanted crowd, this wouldn't be my first thread in 2 years, and I know what section to post in for people's remarks.

I gave the modality right before I started, what do you think has changed? And I mentioned to someone that he'd modify his expectations, because it's basically an experience for Seun. That's why the topic has his name alone, and not "atheists".

noted.

Akanniade:


;DYou can't convince any self respecting atheist with all these

P.s I am a christain

Dear brother, I never said I'd want to convince anyone. What I said is that I will give one specific person a proof for God's existence, cos that's really how far I can get. If you met someone whose convinced only Gold has value as a money form, no matter how hard you try, you can only prove to him that fiat currency does also-when you give him one to go make a purchase; but that doesn't guarantee he'll be convinced.

You're a Christian? Well good for you. but it's basically nothing to me in the context of the thread.

AwesomeJ, atheists are following at least judging by the monickers I see below

however I need to say your posts have been disappointing so far as its filled with anecdotes and post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacies, they can only be regarded as "undeniable proof of Yahweh's existence" if the person being given the "proof" is already favourably inclined to it

hopefulLandlord:
AwesomeJ, atheists are following at least judging by the monickers I see below

however I need to say your posts have been disappointing so far as its filled with anecdotes and post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacies, they can only be regarded as "undeniable proof of Yahweh's existence" if the person being given the "proof" is already favourably inclined to it

You're welcome.

obiZEAL:
...and it was indeed disappointing, you must be a prophet

I serve the one true God, FSM. He was the one that revealed this truth to me

@awesomeJ, You have no proof up there. I'm a Muslim. Atheists are materialistic people, they only believe in Material things of this world. You can't convince them with miracles only. They don't know that every success and failure of this world can be achieved by WORLDY means.

Like if you want to pass an exam you have to read for that. If you don't write the exam well, you may fail. That's what atheists believe in. They forgot that even if you read very well to pass the exam, you may even fail. Anything can hinder your progress or success.

By the way, let me state what I think your dissapoint has been.
You opened the thread in hope to find some half-baked, ill-thought, irrational and questionable arguments presented for the existence of Yahweh, so that you can just quickly dismiss it for what it is-baseless, and wait for the next one to dismiss, that way, you'll keep thinking those who live by faith have an inferior intellect, and only you atheist see clearly. But your wrongness in thinking this is the reason for your perceived disappointment.

This is my first thread on here, and it may as well be the last depending on how far this goes with Seun, so you don't think I'll be willing to make just silliness out of it when it could have a long lasting effect on some folks.

iamgenius:
@awesomeJ, You have no proof up there. I'm a Muslim. Atheists are materialistic people, they only believe in Material things of this world. You can't convince them with miracles only. They don't know that every success and failure of this world can be achieved by WORLDY means.

Like if you want to pass an exam you have to read for that. If you don't write the exam well, you may fail. That's what atheists believe in. They forgot that even if you read very well to pass the exam, you may even fail. Anything can hinder your progress or success.

Atheists are materialistic yes which I believe was the reason why he said it would be based on experience and not theory. I don't think anything can be more materialistic than self experience don't you think so?

Butterflyl10n:


Atheists are materialistic yes which I believe was the reason why he said it would be based on experience and not theory. I don't think anything can be more materialistic than self experience don't you think so?

Materialistic in the sense of gaining things(riches,fame etc) of this world only.

iamgenius:

Materialistic in the sense of gaining things(riches,fame etc) of this world only.

Including, seeing, feeling, sensing those are also materialistic.

Butterflyl10n:


Including, seeing, feeling, sensing those are also materialistic.

I love that feeling part, atheists don't believe in this.The feeling of the existence of God is felt by men, whether we like it or not. We are created in such a way that we feel and sense the existence of God. This natural characteristic of us can only be felt when MEN ARE FACED WITH PROBLEM, AND HE HAS NO WHERE AND NOBODY TO TURN TO.

obiZEAL:

Lolz.... I guess god delivered her of the baby, so when she is in labour for his next child he should simply take her to the church and save everyone's time and effort.

If you had read the post well enough, you would have seen that his faith didn't make him boycott the natural channel and means. It was when things got beyond what these naturals could handle, that he resorted to prayer, and you can ask him years from now, it paid off.

iamgenius:
I love that feeling part, atheists don't believe in this.The feeling of the existence of God is felt by men, whether we like it or not. We are created in such a way that we feel and sense the existence of God. This natural characteristic of us can only be felt when MEN ARE FACED WITH PROBLEM, AND HE HAS NO WHERE AND NOBODY TO TURN TO.

That is not what I meant so stop trying to pretend as if you do not understand what I am saying.

Natural scenario for feeling is simply feeling. It does not matter how it comes but we feel it. Feeling with our natural sense is what makes it materialistic.

Be it pain, God, pleasure, all can be felt materially. As long as what brought the sensation of feeling can be traced to whatever that caused it then you can identify it's source and why.

awesomeJ:

Perhaps I should start with today's testimonies.

Here’s the problem with testimonies. They suffer from selection bias. When people experience bad luck, they don’t give testimonies, but when they experience good luck, they give testimonies. That gives listeners the impression that more good things are happening to the brethren.

If you told us the story of your life, mentioning only the positive things you have experienced, we would be envious of your good fortune.
However, if you mentioned only your negative experiences, we would think you were the most pathetic loser in the world. See what I mean?

1. The first guy was driving in the estate on Mon Jan 29th, and as he drove past the church, he felt an urge within him if to just stop by the church to pray. So he went in, prayed his heart out, and didn't mind whoever else was there with him in the auditorium. Thereafter, he drove straight to the hospital where his wife had been since Sunday Jan 28th due to prolonged labour. About 2 hours after he arrived, the wife delivered safely...

Then he added this: "If you had not seen a terror before, you would wonder why people feared one"...sort of " exactly eight years ago, I got married to my first wife, and exactly 6 years ago, she was ready to deliver our first child, she had this same prolonged labour, and she and the baby were lost to it"

Turned out that was his first time in the Church.

The urge to pray in a church and cry to God was not mysterious. It is normal for a Christian who thinks his wife will die to do such things.

The successful delivery of his second wife was to be expected, since most deliveries are successful. The fact that he lost his first wife and child in childbirth makes the story even less impressive to me, because he would have taken more precautions e.g. getting her admitted at a better hospital. It also made me wonder why his miracle-working God didn’t answer his prayers when his first wife and child died on the same day.

The fact that both wives had difficult deliveries may be a coincidence. It may also be that he is a large man attracted to small-sized women.

Suppose a Muslim told you the same story you just told us, only replacing words like ‘church’ with ‘mosque’, etc. Would you convert to Islam?

awesomeJ:
2. Next out was this grandma. She has two daughters who were pregnant last year. Based on Doctors' stuffs, they told them that both daughters could only deliver via caeserean Section, and there was only a 50%/survival chance for one of them. She came one day to the church to clean up the auditorium with all the strength in her, and in January, both daughters delivered "safely". She however didn't mention if there was any CS though, but I guess "without CS" what she meant by the testimony.

1. If it was without CS, she would have mentioned it. Testimony givers always highlight the details that would make their stories impressive.
2. There was a 50% chance of a safe delivery, which is high. and the doctor may even have exaggerated the risk to manage expectations.
3. The idea that her daughter's safe delivery had anything to do with her decision to sweep the church auditorium is only worthy of ridicule.

Seun:

Here’s the problem with testimonies. They suffer from selection bias. When people experience bad luck, they don’t give testimonies, but when they experience good luck, they give testimonies. That gives listeners the impression that more good things are happening to the brethren.

If you told us the story of your life, mentioning only the positive things you have experienced, we would be envious of your good fortune.
However, if you mentioned only your negative experiences, we would think you were the most pathetic loser in the world. See what I mean?


The urge to pray in a church and cry to God was not mysterious. It is normal for a Christian who thinks his wife will die to do such things.

The successful delivery of his second wife was to be expected, since most deliveries are successful. The fact that he lost his first wife and child in childbirth makes the story even less impressive to me, because he would have taken more precautions e.g. getting her admitted at a better hospital. It also made me wonder why his miracle-working God didn’t answer his prayers when his first wife and child died on the same day.

The fact that both wives had difficult deliveries may be a coincidence. It may also be that he is a large man attracted to small-sized women.

Suppose a Muslim told you the same story you just told us, only replacing words like ‘church’ with ‘mosque’, etc. Would you convert to Islam?

First he didn't mention that he prayed in the instance of the first wife. Even if he did, we don't claim as christians that every prayer gets answered. Just as not every spray of fuel into a cylinder produces the kind of intense pressure that drives automobiles. There are principles governing everything, and they must be rightly applied. That's the nature of God.

So you attribute this testimony purely to luck and coincidence with no supernatural influence whatsoever right. I take that, and I'm not even surprised. I knew even with a proof that you can't deny, you still may choose not to believe, which is why we're gonna do something more than just testimonies to get you this proof.

By the way, I know you also have reasons which explain why the third testimony is also purely of luck. please share those reasons. I have an interest in seeing just how good you are at twisting super obvious facts around.

And after you've done that let me know if we can proceed to the part of your personal evidence.

Seun:

Here’s the problem with testimonies. They suffer from selection bias. When people experience bad luck, they don’t give testimonies, but when they experience good luck, they give testimonies. That gives listeners the impression that more good things are happening to the brethren.

If you told us the story of your life, mentioning only the positive things you have experienced, we would be envious of your good fortune.
However, if you mentioned only your negative experiences, we would think you were the most pathetic loser in the world. See what I mean?

You are talking about a Christian and his testimony and you make it sound like you are talking about just any testimony. A Christian testimony is not the same as your normal testimony as given in a court of law. Often when testimonies are given, there are bad sides but this is the thing about Christian testimonies, they work in line with Romans 8:28 which says

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose

So for a true believer, that bad in our life always ends up as something good at the end of the day because the word of God must be fulfilled and that is what we call a testimony. We see and experience the good out of every bad situation while people like you only have the calamity and misfortune of seeing and experiencing only bad and moaning over it like you wish it was so for everyone.

The urge to pray in a church and cry to God was not mysterious. It is normal for a Christian who thinks his wife will die to do such things.

It's normal for someone whom you have never met, never knew, never been whispered the smallest part of his life experiences to yet you feel that somehow you know how his clock ticks? Tell me something else. Perhaps you have godly powers now as an atheist.

The successful delivery of his second wife was to be expected, since most deliveries are successful. The fact that he lost his first wife and child in childbirth makes the story even less impressive to me, because he would have taken more precautions e.g. getting her admitted at a better hospital. It also made me wonder why his miracle-working God didn’t answer his prayers when his first wife and child died on the same day

Did the OP tell you he prayed for his first wife during her delivery? Seun the god man welli doni oo

The fact that both wives had difficult deliveries may be a coincidence. It may also be that he is a large man attracted to small-sized women.

Suppose a Muslim told you the same story you just told us, only replacing words like ‘church’ with ‘mosque’, etc. Would you convert to Islam?

From speaking certainty earlier you now switch to IT MAY? why are you no longer sure about your earlier comments?

He has asked you to avail yourself for an experience and not your normal dime a dozen theoretical excuses. At least it can help you include video blogging to nairaland for the atheist community if it fails. Now that is good business

awesomeJ:


First he didn't mention that he prayed in the instance of the first wife. Even if he did, we don't claim as christians that every prayer gets answered. Just as not every spray of fuel into a cylinder produces the kind of intense pressure that drives automobiles. There are principles governing everything, and they must be rightly applied. That's the nature of God.

So you attribute this testimony purely to luck and coincidence with no supernatural influence whatsoever right. I take that, and I'm not even surprised. I KNEW EVEN WITH A PROOF THAT YOU CAN NOT DENY,you still may choose not to believe, which is why we're gonna do something more than just testimonies to get you this proof.

By the way, I know you also have reasons which explain why the third testimony is also purely of luck. please share those reasons. I have an interest in seeing just how good you are at twisting super obvious facts around.

And after you've done that let me know if we can proceed to the part of your personal evidence.

the proof that we can not deny is a regrown limb,show us a video of an amputee getting a new limb and you win your argument

And about a Muslim sharing that with me. I'll definitely believe him if he said he experienced it, but I won't change to Islam because I'm not even religious to begin with. I live by Faith, it's a different experience from being religious-at least by my definition.
So I'll believe the guy, because he is the one who experienced it, so it defies logic for me to try redefining someone's experience to them. I'll simply attribute it to God's love and mercies. Cos contrary to your belief,it's only your sin God hates, he not only likes you, he actually love you more than your parents or spouse do.

Or I could just attribute it to something about the workings of God that I am yet to learn.

I hear people talk about their experience of seeing reincarnated dead people. I don't believe in that, and my disbelief in it is founded on the scripture that says "it is only appointed for man to die once". But since I'm not high I don't disbelief the experience they state, neither do I try convincing them that they didn't see what they claimed. Rather I just think it's either a demon puts on the appearance of such dead folks, or there's still a phenomenon that I'm yet to understand. I think this is a better approach to worldview than trying to convince folks who describe their experience of the supernatural against their own sharp mental records solely because spirituality doesn't exist I. your world, and so it musn't in anyone else's.