Denomination turn!!!!!!


Am not a catholic neither is there anything that will make me a catholic even in the nearest future, but it high time we call a spade a spade
LEAVE CATHOLICS ALONE!!!

I stumbled upon a pamphlet from one of these new generation churches that refused to mention its name, they only dropped a phone number and tagged it "SMS ONLY". Itsaid "REASON WHY NO CATHOLIC HAS ENTERED HEAVEN"
My question after reading the antagonistic writeup was "who is chasing the wind"
Have you ever asked yourself why the Catholic church neveradvertises itself or any of her branches or outlets but yet has the highest number of Christians as a denomination? You question the authority of the Catholic church - you called it a "demonic gathering" but there is a backing that Christ Himself set up this Church you now call a 'demonic gathering'

Read Matt 16:13 - 20. Not even the gate of hell shall prevail over it.

Why has the attention of all churches/ministries turned towards the 'Catholic Church'. Everyone is fighting the Catholic church instead of sin which is the arc enemy to your salvation?
You say they worship Mary and believe in idols for protection and yet you stick the picture of your pastor to your cars and door post as a sign of what? You have believed so much in the power of the enemy of you that your prayer points are always about the enemy. Why carry a handkerchief about in the name of a mantle; thinking you will find more favour? Who ever told you a church sticker will be a saving grace from your enemies? You say Mary has no place in heaven; yes I'll agree with you if you answer my question, have you searched through thewhole bible and not found her place in creation? I bet your answer will be a lopsided yes. But my advice read again.

You say that Catholics don't read the bible but I still don't get this point. Is it that they don't read the bible at all or they don't read and preach about 'The Miracle Working God'. There's a difference between reading the bible objective and also reading the bible subjectively. They read every portion of the bible, every nook and cranny of the bible. From the old testament, through the psalms, to the new testament. If you feel they don't read the 'favouritic' parts of the bible, please don't hang yourself, they have chosen what is right by avoiding to hide the truths of human existence in this temporary dwelling place. "The teachings of the Catholic church are too hard" so you go to where you ears will find it easy to take. Well, never forget Luke 20: 45 - 47 and Luke 21: 34 - 36.

The catholic church's teachings are the teaching of Jesus Himself. Christ never foretold any enjoyment or pleasure while here on earth. He only promised life eternal and joy everlasting in the kingdom of God. Where then do your preachers get their teachings of favor from Read what Jesus said in Mark 8: 31 – 38 On Sunday the 14th of April 2016, I heard a preacher while in a church service; saying to his members and I quote him: "I want you to unleash your holy anger and pray....". Pleaseread Matt. 5: 21 - 26 and tell me what aspect of anger isholy.
Catholics don't pray; oh yes because they have chosen to adopt the bible standard of praying. Once I heard someone say " catholics need to understand the art of praying violently". I laugh. Read what the bible teaches about prayer in Matt. 6: 5 - 15

Finally, I want to advocate that you leave catholics alone.
They have never come out to criticize any denomination so I wonder why every denomination is against them. All of these
new age shops you call ministries stemmed from the catholic church. If you need to draw people to God, go to where the
gospel of Christ Jesus has not reached and evangelize there. Stop feeding on the work of others.

If you must judge for God, read what the bible says in Matt. 7:1 - 6. Whether Catholics have never and will never make it to heaven or not, it is not your business. Focus on 'your' salvation and ensure you make heaven which you claim belongs to non catholics.


cc: lalasticlala mynd44

ALL OF YOU ARE JOBLESS!

As in, the "the new general church mofos that printed the controversial flyers" (if true), "the defender of Catholicism" and this poster.

flex04:
Denomination turn!!!!!!


Am not a catholic neither is there anything that will make me a catholic even in the nearest future, but it high time we call a spade a spade
LEAVE CATHOLICS ALONE!!!

I stumbled upon a pamphlet from one of these new generation churches that refused to mention its name, they only dropped a phone number and tagged it "SMS ONLY". Itsaid "REASON WHY NO CATHOLIC HAS ENTERED HEAVEN"
My question after reading the antagonistic writeup was "who is chasing the wind"
Have you ever asked yourself why the Catholic church neveradvertises itself or any of her branches or outlets but yet has the highest number of Christians as a denomination? You question the authority of the Catholic church - you called it a "demonic gathering" but there is a backing that Christ Himself set up this Church you now call a 'demonic gathering'

Read Matt 16:13 - 20. Not even the gate of hell shall prevail over it.

Why has the attention of all churches/ministries turned towards the 'Catholic Church'. Everyone is fighting the Catholic church instead of sin which is the arc enemy to your salvation?
You say they worship Mary and believe in idols for protection and yet you stick the picture of your pastor to your cars and door post as a sign of what? You have believed so much in the power of the enemy of you that your prayer points are always about the enemy. Why carry a handkerchief about in the name of a mantle; thinking you will find more favour? Who ever told you a church sticker will be a saving grace from your enemies? You say Mary has no place in heaven; yes I'll agree with you if you answer my question, have you searched through thewhole bible and not found her place in creation? I bet your answer will be a lopsided yes. But my advice read again.

You say that Catholics don't read the bible but I still don't get this point. Is it that they don't read the bible at all or they don't read and preach about 'The Miracle Working God'. There's a difference between reading the bible objective and also reading the bible subjectively. They read every portion of the bible, every nook and cranny of the bible. From the old testament, through the psalms, to the new testament. If you feel they don't read the 'favouritic' parts of the bible, please don't hang yourself, they have chosen what is right by avoiding to hide the truths of human existence in this temporary dwelling place. "The teachings of the Catholic church are too hard" so you go to where you ears will find it easy to take. Well, never forget Luke 20: 45 - 47 and Luke 21: 34 - 36.

The catholic church's teachings are the teaching of Jesus Himself. Christ never foretold any enjoyment or pleasure while here on earth. He only promised life eternal and joy everlasting in the kingdom of God. Where then do your preachers get their teachings of favor from Read what Jesus said in Mark 8: 31 – 38 On Sunday the 14th of April 2016, I heard a preacher while in a church service; saying to his members and I quote him: "I want you to unleash your holy anger and pray....". Pleaseread Matt. 5: 21 - 26 and tell me what aspect of anger isholy.
Catholics don't pray; oh yes because they have chosen to adopt the bible standard of praying. Once I heard someone say " catholics need to understand the art of praying violently". I laugh. Read what the bible teaches about prayer in Matt. 6: 5 - 15

Finally, I want to advocate that you leave catholics alone.
They have never come out to criticize any denomination so I wonder why every denomination is against them. All of these
new age shops you call ministries stemmed from the catholic church. If you need to draw people to God, go to where the
gospel of Christ Jesus has not reached and evangelize there. Stop feeding on the work of others.

If you must judge for God, read what the bible says in Matt. 7:1 - 6. Whether Catholics have never and will never make it to heaven or not, it is not your business. Focus on 'your' salvation and ensure you make heaven which you claim belongs to non catholics.


cc: lalasticlala mynd44

When did Christ establish the Catholic Church I wonder why you people continue to swallow up this lie. It has neither a historical not a Biblical backing.

Christ never elevated Peter above the other Apostles and nowhere was it mentioned that the Apostleship of the Twelve could be passed from generation to generation. It ended with the Apostles. Peter was neither a "pope" nor "Bishop of Rome".

BluntBoy:


When did Christ establish the Catholic Church I wonder why you people continue to swallow up this lie. It has neither a historical not a Biblical backing.

Christ never elevated Peter above the other Apostles and nowhere was it mentioned that the Apostleship of the Twelve could be passed from generation to generation. It ended with the Apostles. Peter was neither a "pope" nor "Bishop of Rome".

it does have historical backing, the Bible on the other hand is the function of whoever is interpreting or misinterpreting it.

the historical case though is solid, the Bible stopped recording Christian history before 80AD and even that still supports the Catholic Church, have you ever asked yourself about the Churches written in scriptures and where they are today.

the ancient churches are catholic and eastern Orthodox and Peter was Bishop of Rome the historic sources are also conclusive

Ubenedictus:
it does have historical backing, the Bible on the other hand is the function of whoever is interpreting or misinterpreting it.

the historical case though is solid, the Bible stopped recording Christian history before 80AD and even that still supports the Catholic Church, have you ever asked yourself about the Churches written in scriptures and where they are today.

the ancient churches are catholic and eastern Orthodox and Peter was Bishop of Rome the historic sources are also conclusive

What historical source, independent of the Catholic Church, mentioned Peter as Bishop of Rome There is not even a single independent historical case of Peter ever reaching Rome, let alone being buried there, aside the apocryphal Acts of the Apostles called The Acts of Peter.

BluntBoy:


What historical source, independent of the Catholic Church, mentioned Peter as Bishop of Rome There is not even a single independent historical case of Peter ever reaching Rome, let alone being buried there, aside the apocryphal Acts of the Apostles called The Acts of Peter.

all the early Christian who talked about it, unless of course you believe all the early Christians were Catholics, which pretty much proves my point.

Ubenedictus:
all the early Christian who talked about it, unless of course you believe all the early Christians were Catholics, which pretty much proves my point.

People like who talked about it

If they leave the Catholic Church alone, how do you expect them to get more members?

BluntBoy:


People like who talked about it

like ireneaus... all the early Christian who talked about Peter, they all agree.

Ubenedictus:
like ireneaus... all the early Christian who talked about Peter, they all agree.

OK, but it is not enough proof that Peter was pope or that a so-called "Chair of Peter" is in Rome.

Irenaeus did not speak of apostolic succession the way that the Catholic Church now speak of it. The Roman Catholic Church know the truth but they are keeping it from the rest of the world. They have it in their The Vatican Apostolic Library but would rather keep the rest of the world in ignorance rather than spill it. They know Peter was never in Rome nor buried in Rome; they have messages that would change the face of Christianity forever but they are safeguarding these materials in their hi-tech library and stopping them from reaching the world just as they once did to the Bible.

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)

BluntBoy:


OK, but it is not enough proof that Peter was pope or that a so-called "Chair of Peter" is in Rome.

Irenaeus did not speak of apostolic succession the way that the Catholic Church now speak of it. The Roman Catholic Church know the truth but they are keeping it from the rest of the world. They have it in their The Vatican Apostolic Library but would rather keep the rest of the world in ignorance rather than spill it. They know Peter was never in Rome nor buried in Rome; they have messages that would change the face of Christianity forever but they are safeguarding these materials in their hi-tech library and stopping them from reaching the world just as they once did to the Bible.

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)

it seems you haven't read irenaeus, he spoke of apostolic succession exactly as Catholics today talks about it, he also bears historic witness of Peter been in Rome.

in fact I'll paste a little quote from his writing.




"1 . It is within the power of all, therefore, in every
Church , who may wish to see the truth , to
contemplate clearly the tradition of the apostles
manifested throughout the whole world; and we are in
a position to reckon up those who were by the
apostles instituted bishops in the Churches , and [to
demonstrate] the succession of these men to our own
times; those who neither taught nor knew of anything
like what these [heretics ] rave about. For if the
apostles had known hidden mysteries, which they were
in the habit of imparting to "the perfect" apart and privily
from the rest, they would have delivered them
especially to those to whom they were also committing
the Churches themselves. For they were desirous that
these men should be very perfect and blameless in all
things, whom also they were leaving behind as their
successors, delivering up their own place of
government to these men; which men, if they
discharged their functions honestly, would be a great
boon [to the Church ], but if they should fall away, the
direst calamity.
2. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a
volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the
Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in
whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by
vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion,
assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,]
by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles,
of the [b]very great, the very ancient, and universally
known Church founded and organized at Rome by the
two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul ; as also [by
pointing out] the faith preached to men , which comes
down to our time by means of the successions of the
bishops . For it is a matter of necessity that every
Church should agree with this Church , on account of
its preeminent authority [potiorem principalitatem].
3. The blessed apostles , then, having founded and
built up the Church , committed into the hands of
Linus the office of the episcopate . Of this Linus, Paul
makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him
succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place
from the apostles , Clement was allotted the bishopric.
This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles , and
had been conversant with them, might be said to have
the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears],
and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone
[in this], for there were many still remaining who had
received instructions from the apostles . In the time of
this Clement, no small dissension having occurred
among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome
dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians,
exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith , and
declaring the tradition which it had lately received from
the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent , the
Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man , who
brought on the deluge, and called Abraham , who led
the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses,
set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has
prepared fire for the devil and his angels . From this
document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn
that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ , was
preached by the Churches, and may also understand
the apostolic tradition of the Church , since this Epistle
is of older date than these men who are now
propagating falsehood , and who conjure into existence
another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all
existing things. To this Clement there succeeded
Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth
from the apostles , Sixtus was appointed; after him,
Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then
Hyginus ; after him, Pius ; then after him, Anicetus .
Soter having succeeded Anicetus , Eleutherius does
now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the
inheritance of the episcopate . In this order, and by this
succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the
apostles , and the preaching of the truth , have come
down to us. And this is most abundant proof that
there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has
been preserved in the Church from the apostles until
now, and handed down in truth .[/b]
against heresy

BluntBoy:


OK, but it is not enough proof that Peter was pope or that a so-called "Chair of Peter" is in Rome.

Irenaeus did not speak of apostolic succession the way that the Catholic Church now speak of it. The Roman Catholic Church know the truth but they are keeping it from the rest of the world. They have it in their The Vatican Apostolic Library but would rather keep the rest of the world in ignorance rather than spill it. They know Peter was never in Rome nor buried in Rome; they have messages that would change the face of Christianity forever but they are safeguarding these materials in their hi-tech library and stopping them from reaching the world just as they once did to the Bible.

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)

it seems you haven't read irenaeus, he spoke of apostolic succession exactly as Catholics today talks about it, he also bears historic witness of Peter been in Rome.

in fact I'll paste a little quote from his writing.




"1 . It is within the power of all, therefore, in every
Church , who may wish to see the truth , to
contemplate clearly the tradition of the apostles
manifested throughout the whole world; and we are in
a position to reckon up those who were by the
apostles instituted bishops in the Churches , and [to
demonstrate] the succession of these men to our own
times; those who neither taught nor knew of anything
like what these [heretics ] rave about. For if the
apostles had known hidden mysteries, which they were
in the habit of imparting to "the perfect" apart and privily
from the rest, they would have delivered them
especially to those to whom they were also committing
the Churches themselves. For they were desirous that
these men should be very perfect and blameless in all
things, whom also they were leaving behind as their
successors, delivering up their own place of
government to these men; which men, if they
discharged their functions honestly, would be a great
boon [to the Church ], but if they should fall away, the
direst calamity.
2. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a
volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the
Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in
whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by
vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion,
assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,]
by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles,
of the [b]very great, the very ancient, and universally
known Church founded and organized at Rome by the
two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul ; as also [by
pointing out] the faith preached to men , which comes
down to our time by means of the successions of the
bishops . For it is a matter of necessity that every
Church should agree with this Church , on account of
its preeminent authority [potiorem principalitatem].
3. The blessed apostles , then, having founded and
built up the Church , committed into the hands of
Linus the office of the episcopate . Of this Linus, Paul
makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him
succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place
from the apostles , Clement was allotted the bishopric.
This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles , and
had been conversant with them, might be said to have
the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears],
and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone
[in this], for there were many still remaining who had
received instructions from the apostles . In the time of
this Clement, no small dissension having occurred
among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome
dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians,
exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith , and
declaring the tradition which it had lately received from
the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent , the
Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man , who
brought on the deluge, and called Abraham , who led
the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses,
set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has
prepared fire for the devil and his angels . From this
document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn
that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ , was
preached by the Churches, and may also understand
the apostolic tradition of the Church , since this Epistle
is of older date than these men who are now
propagating falsehood , and who conjure into existence
another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all
existing things. To this Clement there succeeded
Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth
from the apostles , Sixtus was appointed; after him,
Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then
Hyginus ; after him, Pius ; then after him, Anicetus .
Soter having succeeded Anicetus , Eleutherius does
now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the
inheritance of the episcopate . In this order, and by this
succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the
apostles , and the preaching of the truth , have come
down to us. And this is most abundant proof that
there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has
been preserved in the Church from the apostles until
now, and handed down in truth .[/b]
against heresy

BluntBoy:


People like who talked about it

a whole bunch of early Christian too




St. Irenaeus
"The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having
founded and built up the church [of Rome] . . .
handed over the office of the episcopate to
Linus" (Against Heresies 3:3:3 [A.D. 189]).
Tertullian
"[T]his is the way in which the apostolic
churches transmit their lists: like the church of
the Smyrneans, which records that Polycarp
was placed there by John, like the church of
the Romans, where Clement was ordained by
Peter" (Demurrer Against the Heretics 32:2 [A.D.
200]).
The Little Labyrinth
"Victor . . . was the thirteenth bishop of Rome
from Peter" (The Little Labyrinth [A.D. 211], in
Eusebius, Church History 5:28:3).
Cyprian of Carthage
"The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says,
‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will
build my Church, and the gates of hell will not
overcome it. . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18]. On him [Peter]
he builds the Church, and to him he gives the
command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and
although he assigns a like power to all the
apostles, yet he founded a single chair
[cathedra], and he established by his own
authority a source and an intrinsic reason for
that unity. . . . If someone [today] does not hold
fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that
he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the
chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built,
can he still be confident that he is in the
Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4;
first edition [A.D. 251]).
"Cornelius was made bishop by the decision of
God and of his Christ, by the testimony of
almost all the clergy, by the applause of the
people then present, by the college of venerable
priests and good men, at a time when no one
had been made [bishop] before him—when the
place of [Pope] Fabian, which is the place of
Peter, the dignity of the sacerdotal chair, was
vacant. Since it has been occupied both at the
will of God and with the ratified consent of all
of us, whoever now wishes to become bishop
must do so outside. For he cannot have
ecclesiastical rank who does not hold to the
unity of the Church" (Letters 55:[52]):8 [A.D.
253]).
"With a false bishop appointed for themselves
by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry
letters from schismatics and blasphemers to
the chair of Peter and to the principal church
[at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its
source" (ibid., 59:14).
Eusebius of Caesarea
"Paul testifies that Crescens was sent to Gaul [2
Tim. 4:10], but Linus, whom he mentions in the
Second Epistle to Timothy [2 Tim. 4:21] as his
companion at Rome, was Peter’s successor in
the episcopate of the church there, as has
already been shown. Clement also, who was
appointed third bishop of the church at Rome,
was, as Paul testifies, his co-laborer and fellow-
soldier [Phil. 4:3]" (Church History 3:4:9–10
[A.D. 312]).

Ubenedictus:
a whole bunch of early Christian too




St. Irenaeus
"The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having
founded and built up the church [of Rome] . . .
handed over the office of the episcopate to
Linus" (Against Heresies 3:3:3 [A.D. 189]).
Tertullian
"[T]his is the way in which the apostolic
churches transmit their lists: like the church of
the Smyrneans, which records that Polycarp
was placed there by John, like the church of
the Romans, where Clement was ordained by
Peter" (Demurrer Against the Heretics 32:2 [A.D.
200]).
The Little Labyrinth
"Victor . . . was the thirteenth bishop of Rome
from Peter" (The Little Labyrinth [A.D. 211], in
Eusebius, Church History 5:28:3).
Cyprian of Carthage
"The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says,
‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will
build my Church, and the gates of hell will not
overcome it. . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18]. On him [Peter]
he builds the Church, and to him he gives the
command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and
although he assigns a like power to all the
apostles, yet he founded a single chair
[cathedra], and he established by his own
authority a source and an intrinsic reason for
that unity. . . . If someone [today] does not hold
fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that
he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the
chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built,
can he still be confident that he is in the
Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4;
first edition [A.D. 251]).
"Cornelius was made bishop by the decision of
God and of his Christ, by the testimony of
almost all the clergy, by the applause of the
people then present, by the college of venerable
priests and good men, at a time when no one
had been made [bishop] before him—when the
place of [Pope] Fabian, which is the place of
Peter, the dignity of the sacerdotal chair, was
vacant. Since it has been occupied both at the
will of God and with the ratified consent of all
of us, whoever now wishes to become bishop
must do so outside. For he cannot have
ecclesiastical rank who does not hold to the
unity of the Church" (Letters 55:[52]):8 [A.D.
253]).
"With a false bishop appointed for themselves
by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry
letters from schismatics and blasphemers to
the chair of Peter and to the principal church
[at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its
source" (ibid., 59:14).
Eusebius of Caesarea
"Paul testifies that Crescens was sent to Gaul [2
Tim. 4:10], but Linus, whom he mentions in the
Second Epistle to Timothy [2 Tim. 4:21] as his
companion at Rome, was Peter’s successor in
the episcopate of the church there, as has
already been shown. Clement also, who was
appointed third bishop of the church at Rome,
was, as Paul testifies, his co-laborer and fellow-
soldier [Phil. 4:3]" (Church History 3:4:9–10
[A.D. 312]).

leave these guys jare

one Old retired catholic cardinal recently called RCCG a business center . FYI there is a difference between catholism and Christianity.

flex04:



leave these guys jare

those guys are Christians who were there long before us and even before the new testament was compiled. they are pretty solid witnesses and they historically set the issue of Peter to rest.


you will only want to leave them if you don't care about the truth.

planetzoom:
one Old retired catholic cardinal recently called RCCG a business center .
FYI there is a difference between catholism and Christianity.

the cardinal isn't wrong the rccg is one of those "churches" that threaten people with curses if they don't pay tithe, it was set upon the prosperity theory gospel. it certainly gets wealthy by scaring people with God into parting with their money.


it was invented in the last century and has no direct connection to apostolic Christianity apart from the personal Bible interpretation of adeboye and his pastors. God is not mocked, it is a religious business center.

BluntBoy:


People like who talked about it

1 Clem. 42:1 The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the Lord Jesus
Christ; Jesus Christ was sent forth from God.
1 Clem. 42:2 So then Christ is from God, and the Apostles are from Christ.
Both therefore came of the will of God in the appointed order.
1 Clem. 42:3 Having therefore received a charge, and having been fully
assured through the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and confirmed in
the word of God with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth with
the glad tidings that the kingdom of God should come.
1 Clem. 42:4 So preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed
their firstfruits, when they had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and
deacons unto them that should believe.
1 Clem. 42:5 And this they did in no new fashion; for indeed it had been
written concerning bishops and deacons from very ancient times; for thus
saith the scripture in a certain place, I will appoint their bishops in
righteousness and their deacons in faith.

1 Clem. 44:1 And our Apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there
would be strife over the name of the bishop's office.
1 Clem. 44:2 For this cause therefore, having received complete
foreknowledge, they appointed the aforesaid persons, and afterwards they
provided a continuance, that if these should fall asleep, other approved men
should succeed to their ministration. Those therefore who were appointed by
them, or afterward by other men of repute with the consent of the whole
Church, and have ministered unblamably to the flock of Christ in lowliness of
mind, peacefully and with all modesty, and for long time have borne a good
report with all these men we consider to be unjustly thrust out from their
ministration.
1 Clem. 44:3 For it will be no light sin for us, if we thrust out those who have
offered the gifts of the bishop's office unblamably and holily.

first letter of clement to the Corinthians.

dragon2:


1 Clem. 42:1 The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the Lord Jesus
Christ; Jesus Christ was sent forth from God.
1 Clem. 42:2 So then Christ is from God, and the Apostles are from Christ.
Both therefore came of the will of God in the appointed order.
1 Clem. 42:3 Having therefore received a charge, and having been fully
assured through the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and confirmed in
the word of God with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth with
the glad tidings that the kingdom of God should come.
1 Clem. 42:4 So preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed
their firstfruits, when they had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and
deacons unto them that should believe.
1 Clem. 42:5 And this they did in no new fashion; for indeed it had been
written concerning bishops and deacons from very ancient times; for thus
saith the scripture in a certain place, I will appoint their bishops in
righteousness and their deacons in faith.

1 Clem. 44:1 And our Apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there
would be strife over the name of the bishop's office.
1 Clem. 44:2 For this cause therefore, having received complete
foreknowledge, they appointed the aforesaid persons, and afterwards they
provided a continuance, that if these should fall asleep, other approved men
should succeed to their ministration. Those therefore who were appointed by
them, or afterward by other men of repute with the consent of the whole
Church, and have ministered unblamably to the flock of Christ in lowliness of
mind, peacefully and with all modesty, and for long time have borne a good
report with all these men we consider to be unjustly thrust out from their
ministration.
1 Clem. 44:3 For it will be no light sin for us, if we thrust out those who have
offered the gifts of the bishop's office unblamably and holily.

first letter of clement to the Corinthians.

It still doesn't convince me that Peter was the first Pope or that God wants a single man to be head of His Church on Earth. I am very aware of offices of bishops but I am also aware that every church had at least two bishops or elders who were not called but chosen by men. I am not aware of one bishop being regarded as leader of the Church on Earth. Christ specifically warned against such hierarchy in His Church by asking that the Apostles take care not to be like the gentile princes.

Look at the Church today and see if so-called church leaders have not become like the gentile princes who lord it over their subjects.

Ubenedictus:
those guys are Christians who were there long before us and even before the new testament was compiled. they are pretty solid witnesses and they historically set the issue of Peter to rest.


you will only want to leave them if you don't care about the truth.

they are jus professional argumentaters

flex04:



they are jus professional argumentaters

yeah, all the Christian who came before us and expressed their Christian Faith and provide clear historic witness of events are all "professional argumentators just because they don't support your case.


that must be bias.

BluntBoy:


It still doesn't convince me that Peter was the first Pope or that God wants a single man to be head of His Church on Earth. I am very aware of offices of bishops but I am also aware that every church had at least two bishops or elders who were not called but chosen by men. I am not aware of one bishop being regarded as leader of the Church on Earth. Christ specifically warned against such hierarchy in His Church by asking that the Apostles take care not to be like the gentile princes.

Look at the Church today and see if so-called church leaders have not become like the gentile princes who lord it over their subjects.

not exactly true,

before the end of the apostolic age the Church already had monarchial singular bishops for each city.... the early Christians bear witness of this., the was a hierarchy in the Church, presbyterous were under the episcopus and so too the deacons. not gentile princes but Christian servants

if you think the apostles didn't have a leader then you'll have to explain why the historic witness of the early Christians say different, how do you explain matt 16:15-16

Catholicism is Christianity. So you are just jealous if you are covetous of them.

Ubenedictus:
not exactly true,

before the end of the apostolic age the Church already had monarchial singular bishops for each city.... the early Christians bear witness of this., the was a hierarchy in the Church, presbyterous were under the episcopus and so too the deacons. not gentile princes but Christian servants

if you think the apostles didn't have a leader then you'll have to explain why the historic witness of the early Christians say different, how do you explain matt 16:15-16

Bro, Christ never made Peter leader of the apostles.

What happened was that the Church is built on the Rock (the truth which came forth from Peter's mouth). It is sad that many people think the Church is built on Peter.

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16)

The rock on which the Church is built is the Messiahship of Christ and the fact that He is the Son of the living God. That fact is the Rock and not a mere man like Peter.

BluntBoy:


Bro, Christ never made Peter leader of the apostles.

What happened was that the Church is built on the Rock (the truth which came forth from Peter's mouth). It is sad that many people think the Church is built on Peter.

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16)

The rock on which the Church is built is the Messiahship of Christ and the fact that He is the Son of the living God. That fact is the Rock and not a mere man like Peter.

I am not talking about the rock I am talking about the keys that was given to Peter.

do you understand what it means to have the keys of the kingdom

Ubenedictus:
I am not talking about the rock I am talking about the keys that was given to Peter.

do you understand what it means to have the keys of the kingdom

The keys are symbolic and every true Christian possesses them by their faith in the Son of the living God. The keys served the vestment of power to bind and loose.

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 16:19)

These keys would later be given to the other disciples as well:

"Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 18:18)

By virtue of our faith in Christ, all believers now possess these keys of authority.

The keys are no evidence of Peter's leadership.

The Bible has no evidence that Peter was superior to the other Apostles. Peter himself never showed it and none of the Apostles showed it. Paul confirmed that Peter was sent to the circumcised (the Jews) while he (Paul) was sent to us (the Gentiles).

On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised. (Galatians 2:7)

The bulk of Christianity is modeled after the teaching of Paul and if anyone wants to adopt an apostle as the first Pope, I think it ought to be Paul.

Also, when Paul mentioned those whom he felt were the pillars of the Church, he didn't list Peter as the first even though Matthew recorded Peter as one of the first two that Jesus called.

James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. (Galatians 2:9)

BluntTheApostle:


The keys are symbolic and every true Christian possesses them by their faith in the Son of the living God. The keys served the vestment of power to bind and loose.

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 16:19)

These keys would later be given to the other disciples as well:

"Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 18:18)

By virtue of our faith in Christ, all believers now possess these keys of authority.

The keys are no evidence of Peter's leadership.

The Bible has no evidence that Peter was superior to the other Apostles. Peter himself never showed it and none of the Apostles showed it. Paul confirmed that Peter was sent to the circumcised (the Jews) while he (Paul) was sent to us (the Gentiles).

On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised. (Galatians 2:7)

The bulk of Christianity is modeled after the teaching of Paul and if anyone wants to adopt an apostle as the first Pope, I think it ought to be Paul.

Also, when Paul mentioned those whom he felt were the pillars of the Church, he didn't list Peter as the first even though Matthew recorded Peter as one of the first two that Jesus called.

James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. (Galatians 2:9)

not really.


for a Jew the keys of the kingdom are very specific symbols, that is why only one person is said to be given those keys.

read Isaiah 22:22

… 21 And I will clothe him with your tunic And tie your
sash securely about him. I will entrust him with your
authority, And he will become a father to the
inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.
22 "Then I will set the key of the house of David on
his shoulder, When he opens no one will shut, When
he shuts no one will open. 23 "I will drive him like a
peg in a firm place, And he will become a throne of
glory to his father's house.…


the keys of the kingdom are the symbols of the prime minister in the davidic kingdom... there were 12 ministers in the kingdom, the keys were the symbol of the prime minister the one who ruled in the King's absence. Jesus is the descendant of David, he is the new king, he chose 12 apostles and gave one the keys of His kingdom... that is how peter is the leader.


that is what it means to receive the keys, all the early Christians know this, it is only people who seem ignorant of scriptural symbolism that don't.

Ubenedictus:
not really.


for a Jew the keys of the kingdom are very specific symbols, that is why only one person is said to be given those keys.

read Isaiah 22:22

… 21 And I will clothe him with your tunic And tie your
sash securely about him. I will entrust him with your
authority, And he will become a father to the
inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.
22 "Then I will set the key of the house of David on
his shoulder, When he opens no one will shut, When
he shuts no one will open. 23 "I will drive him like a
peg in a firm place, And he will become a throne of
glory to his father's house.…


the keys of the kingdom are the symbols of the prime minister in the davidic kingdom... there were 12 ministers in the kingdom, the keys were the symbol of the prime minister the one who ruled in the King's absence. Jesus is the descendant of David, he is the new king, he chose 12 apostles and gave one the keys of His kingdom... that is how peter is the leader.


that is what it means to receive the keys, all the early Christians know this, it is only people who seem ignorant of scriptural symbolism that don't.

Bro, what are the keys used for