Michael is called the archangel (Jude 9). This term means chief angel. This shows that there is only one such angel.

Revelation 12:7 pictures Michael as the leader of the army of angels - the Bible states Michael and his angels battled with the dragon and its angels.

Matthew 16:27 says: "For the Son of man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each one according to his behavior."

So the Bible speaks of both Michael and his angels and Jesus and his angels

Since the Bible nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven, one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus, it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

Some have said that the scripture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 only refers to an archangel's voice. However, "voice" often refers to authority. It is not disrespectful to say that Jesus commands the angels, because he is the Son of God, to whom all authority was given to him by his Father. Matthew 28:18

But the real problem is the trinity doctrine, which Bible scholars have repeatedly stated was developed long after Jesus and his apostles.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

Another contention is that as a Person of the trinity, Jesus could not have been created by God. The Athanasian Creed, written long after the first century, asserts that each of the three Persons is uncreated. But the Bible says:

Col. 1:15, 16, RS: “He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth.”

Some say that "first-born" means prime, most excellent, but in the Bible it always means that the person was BORN.

Rev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him . . . ‘And to the angel of the church in La-odicea write: “The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning [Greek, ar•kheʹ] of God’s creation.”’” (KJ, Dy, CC, and NW.)

Not the beginner, but the beginning. The Greek word is clear.

That the trinity doctrine is man made and false is clear in the inspired scriptures:

Jesus prays to God. (John 17:1-3)
Jesus has faith in God. (Hebrews 2:17,18, Hebrews 3:2)
Jesus is a servant of God. (Acts 3:13)
Jesus does not know things God knows. (Mark 13:32, Revelation 1:1)
Jesus worships God. (John 4:22)
Jesus has one who is God to him. (Revelation 3:12)
Jesus is in subjection to God. (1 Corinthians 15:28)
Jesus' head is God. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

For these clear scriptural reasons, and for others in the source links, Jesus is not a Person of the trinity, he is the first born, only begotten Son of the Most High God, Savior and Ransomer who died for my sins. He is also the leader of all of the angels, and his role as such is clearly stated, The name Michael means "Who is Like God?" which indicates that he is the one who, more than anyone else, he will never take his Father's preeminence and authority as the "only true God," who "is one" and the "Most High". John 17:3 Mark 12:29; Psalm 83:18; Luke 1:32

JESUS IS NOT MICHAEL.
MICHAEL is NOT the WORD OF GOD.
MICHAEL WAS NOT BEGOTTEN BY GOD but a created entity.... LOGICAL REASONING LEADS TO HERESY WHEN IT COMES TO SPIRITUAL MATTERS.

I can't believe that you guys are this stupid as this....

I am in shock.

removetheturban:
Michael is called the archangel (Jude 9). This term means chief angel. This shows that there is only one such angel.

Revelation 12:7 pictures Michael as the leader of the army of angels - the Bible states Michael and his angels battled with the dragon and its angels.

Matthew 16:27 says: "For the Son of man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each one according to his behavior."

So the Bible speaks of both Michael and his angels and Jesus and his angels

Since the Bible nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven, one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus, it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

Some have said that the scripture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 only refers to an archangel's voice. However, "voice" often refers to authority. It is not disrespectful to say that Jesus commands the angels, because he is the Son of God, to whom all authority was given to him by his Father. Matthew 28:18

But the real problem is the trinity doctrine, which Bible scholars have repeatedly stated was developed long after Jesus and his apostles.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

Another contention is that as a Person of the trinity, Jesus could not have been created by God. The Athanasian Creed, written long after the first century, asserts that each of the three Persons is uncreated. But the Bible says:

Col. 1:15, 16, RS: “He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth.”

Some say that "first-born" means prime, most excellent, but in the Bible it always means that the person was BORN.

Rev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him . . . ‘And to the angel of the church in La-odicea write: “The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning [Greek, ar•kheʹ] of God’s creation.”’” (KJ, Dy, CC, and NW.)

Not the beginner, but the beginning. The Greek word is clear.

That the trinity doctrine is man made and false is clear in the inspired scriptures:

Jesus prays to God. (John 17:1-3)
Jesus has faith in God. (Hebrews 2:17,18, Hebrews 3:2)
Jesus is a servant of God. (Acts 3:13)
Jesus does not know things God knows. (Mark 13:32, Revelation 1:1)
Jesus worships God. (John 4:22)
Jesus has one who is God to him. (Revelation 3:12)
Jesus is in subjection to God. (1 Corinthians 15:28)
Jesus' head is God. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

For these clear scriptural reasons, and for others in the source links, Jesus is not a Person of the trinity, he is the first born, only begotten Son of the Most High God, Savior and Ransomer who died for my sins. He is also the leader of all of the angels, and his role as such is clearly stated, The name Michael means "Who is Like God?" which indicates that he is the one who, more than anyone else, he will never take his Father's preeminence and authority as the "only true God," who "is one" and the "Most High". John 17:3 Mark 12:29; Psalm 83:18; Luke 1:32

What is the difference btw an archangel and an angel ?
Head teacher is also a teacher.
Head usher is also an usher.
ARCHANGEL IS ALSO AN ANGEL.

The Bible says in :

Hebrews 1:4-8 KJV
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
[6] And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[8] But unto the Son he saith , Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


This scripture below tells us that we should not worship any angel:

Revelation 19:10 KJV
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

But the following scriptures shows where Jesus is worshipped like his Father :

Revelation 5:8-14 KJV
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
[11] And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
[12] Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
[13] And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
[14] And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

The Bible tells us that the name of the Son of God is Jesus and the name of the archangel is Michael , how do they relate?

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Dan 10:13

The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

enilove:

What is the difference btw an archangel and an angel ?
Head teacher is also a teacher.
Head usher is also an usher.
ARCHANGEL IS ALSO AN ANGEL.

Let me flow with your logic for a moment.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
With which voice does Jesus call?
If you insinuate that a Headteacher is equally a Teacher
A Lion cannot bark like a dog, it should definitely roar, isn't it?
In John 10:27 Jesus said that his sheep know HIS VOICE and when he calls they follow.

The Bible confirms that he will call with The Archangel's voice which he earlier said that his sheep know. Remember that this voice is the signal to rise from dead. Therefore, wouldn't it be misleading if he were not the Archangel and he calls his sheep with the voice of the Archangel?

How will they know this voice if this is not Jesus' voice?

That means that there is no resurrection going by your logic. Do you still believe in the resurrection?

enilove:
The Bible says in :

Hebrews 1:4-8 KJV
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
[6] And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[8] But unto the Son he saith , Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Do you believe that Jesus was exalted to a superior position?
Philippians 2:9

enilove:

This scripture below tells us that we should not worship any angel:

Revelation 19:10 KJV
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

But the following scriptures shows where Jesus is worshipped like his Father :

Revelation 5:8-14 KJV
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
[11] And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
[12] Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
[13] And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
[14] And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

The Bible tells us that the name of the Son of God is Jesus and the name of the archangel is Michael , how do they relate?

The Bible also called the Satan the devil 'the serpent' and 'the dragon'.
God said that he did not appear to men of old as Jehovah but as Almighty God. Exodus 6:3
Jesus was referred to as the Christ and also Jesus. Some called him the Carpenters son.
Jesus called Simon his apostle, Peter. Peter was known by both names.

If Jesus calls out with the Archangel's voice, does that signal anything to you?

Or, would he call out and not action the reason for the call?

If the Archangel will go with his own army against the devil which is something that Jesus will equally do, does it mean that Jesus and his army are incompetent to execute a finish in the mission?

removetheturban:
Michael is called the archangel (Jude 9). This term means chief angel. This shows that there is only one such angel.

You lie here. Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. [b]Then Michael, one of the chief princes, [/b]came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.
Michael is one of the chief princes.
Michael is one among equals proves that he is not unique in any way.
Jesus in John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son…“

Jesus is not one among equals. He is unique and one of a kind.

 


A belief system based on speculations. Let's analyse your comments. You have to assume that Michael called archangel means Chief angel therefore there is only one of such angel. We don't know this cause Bible never mentioned Michael being the only archangel.
You are just arguing from silence. Let's just say you are speculating.

Revelation 12:7 pictures Michael as the leader of the army of angels - the Bible states Michael and his angels battled with the dragon and its angels.

This doesn't prove that Jesus is Michael. You are still assuming.

Matthew 16:27 says: "For the Son of man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each one according to his behavior."

The bible didn't say the son of man will come in the form of an angel. You are also assuming that Jesus is angel Michael.

So the Bible speaks of both Michael and his angels and Jesus and his angels

It still doesn't mean Jesus Christ is angel Michael. The same bible speaks of Satan an his angels too.

Since the Bible nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven, one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus, [b]it is logical to conclude [/b]that Michael is none other Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

@bolded is a speculative comment. You shouldn't speculate and address the speculation as being a fact. The bible nowhere states Jesus Christ as ever being referred to as angel Michael. Your deductions are false because they are formed from a false premise.
Jesus Christ was never referred to as an angel anywhere in the Bible. The son of man is to repay each one according to his behavior. Angel Michael fights only the dragon and his angels and is not repaying any one therefore it is illogical to conclude that Jesus is angel Michael.

But the real problem is the trinity doctrine, which Bible scholars have repeatedly stated was developed long after Jesus and his apostles

What Bible scholars? Name them. Speculation again.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

You misquote people to make it look like they support your doctrine. What's in the blank space .... Fill it in. You just copy and paste from watchtower's adulterated version of the text without reading that part from the source itself. What's in the dot dot dot dot? The words there are not in consonant with your doctrines. Well, your reference never says the Trinity doctrine is false.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

Still nowhere states that the doctrine is false. Since our Trinity doctrine which was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century means it is false, then Your 1914(1935), blood transfusion ban(1945), overlapping generations (1995), banning use of cross (1920), ban worship of Jesus (1960), disfellowshipping and shunning (1952), 607 (1874), gb being fds (1980) etc are false doctrines.

Another contention is that as a Person of the trinity, Jesus could not have been created by God. The Athanasian Creed, written long after the first century, asserts that each of the three Persons is uncreated. But the Bible says:

Jesus Christ is the creator because bible says so. Bible never says he was created.

Col. 1:15, 16, RS: “He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth.”
Some say that "first-born" means prime, most excellent, but in the Bible it always means that the person was BORN.

Since say first born means that the person was born then Jesus Christ is not angel Michael because Michael was not born.
Firstborn as Greek scholars agree, the word (Greek: prototokos) means “first in rank, preeminent one, heir.

Rev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him . . . ‘And to the angel of the church in La-odicea write: “The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning [Greek, ar•kheʹ] of God’s creation.”’” (KJ, Dy, CC, and NW.)
Not the beginner, but the beginning. The Greek word is clear.

The greek word arche, which is translated “beginning” in the New World Translation. Arche can mean beginning, one who begins, origin, source, creator, or first cause.

That the trinity doctrine is man made and false is clear in the inspired scriptures:

Your doctrines are based on speculations. Your gb says they are not even inspired and are infallible. Therefore all your doctrines are false.

Jesus prays to God. (John 17:1-3)
Jesus has faith in God. (Hebrews 2:17,18, Hebrews 3:2)
Jesus is a servant of God. (Acts 3:13)
Jesus does not know things God knows. (Mark 13:32, Revelation 1:1)
Jesus worships God. (John 4:22)
Jesus has one who is God to him. (Revelation 3:12)
Jesus is in subjection to God. (1 Corinthians 15:28)
Jesus' head is God. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

Jesus Christ is fully human and fully divine so it is expected. Jesus Christ is God

For these clear scriptural reasons, and for others in the source links, Jesus is not a Person of the trinity, he is the first born, only begotten Son of the Most High God, Savior and Ransomer who died for my sins. He is also the leader of all of the angels, and his role as such is clearly stated,The name Michael means "Who is Like God?" which indicates that he is the one who, more than anyone else, he will never take his Father's preeminence and authority as the "only true God," who "is one" and the "Most High". John 17:3 Mark 12:29; Psalm 83:18; Luke 1:32

Jesus is the true God. He is the preeminent one, everlasting Father, Mighty God, the Good Shepherd, The King of kings and Lord of Lords.

When did the bible say that Michael is Jesus Christ? If you can give me a specific verse and not speculations based on assumptions I will join your religion.

removetheturban:
The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

You just assumed that Michael battling the dragon with his Angels means he is the leader of the army of his angels. Bible never described Michael as the leader of faithful angels .
Rev 19: 13-17
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

king of kings and lord of lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,

Nowhere in the whole bible is angel Michael referred to as Jesus Christ and vice versa. It's only in your magazines. It is illogical to conclude that Jesus Christ and angel Michael are the same thing because angel Michael and his angels fought the dragon and its angels while Jesus Christ is being followed by the armies of heaven to strike nations.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
With which voice does Jesus call?

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first

Stop lying. The bible never said the voice Jesus calls with is that of the archangel.

What The bible says is tha Jesus will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God.

If coming down from heaven with the voice of an archangel means angel Michael is Jesus Christ, then coming down from heaven with the trumpet call of God means Jesus is God simple. You can't Cherry pick.

If you insinuate that a Headteacher is equally a Teacher
A Lion cannot bark like a dog, it should definitely roar, isn't it?

Speculation speculation speculation. A lion roars while a dog barks it is well known. The contrary can never happen. That's why Jesus Christ coming down with a loud command and voice of angel Michael doesn't make him angel Michael.

In John 10:27 Jesus said that his sheep know HIS VOICE and when he calls they follow.

That verse has no bearing with revelation at all. In fact we are not told in revelation that Jesus sheep are to identify him via the archangel's voice.

The Bible confirms that he will call with The Archangel's voice which he earlier said that his sheep know. Remember that this voice is the signal to rise from dead. Therefore, wouldn't it be misleading if he were not the Archangel and he calls his sheep with the voice of the Archangel?

@bolded comment: another speculative comment noted. Deceit everywhere. You just speculate and make it a fact to yourselves.
John 10 is not a signal for the sheep to identify his voice and rise up from the dead either. Speculation everywhere.
Those verses are not related

How will they know this voice if this is not Jesus' voice?

The subject of the sheep knowing and identifying Jesus Christ voice in the second coming was never discussed in the Bible. You formulated a question that was never discussed in the Bible. Another argument from silence.

That means that there is no resurrection going by your logic. Do you still believe in the resurrection?

By your logic Jesus Christ coming down at the trumpet call of God means he is God. Angel Michael not being Jesus Christ does not mean that the person doesn't believe in the resurrection

Do you believe that Jesus was exalted to a superior position?
Philippians 2:9

Jesus was exalted to the highest place. He is God.

The Bible also called the Satan the devil 'the serpent' and 'the dragon

Angel Michael cast the dragon and his angels down to earth. The dragon doesn't even die. read the full chapter. You take one verse making speculation from this verse and forgetting the succeeding verses in that chapter just to make your doctrine acceptable.

God said that he did not appear to men of old as Jehovah but as Almighty God. Exodus 6:3
Jesus was referred to as the Christ and also Jesus. Some called him the Carpenters son.
Jesus called Simon his apostle, Peter. Peter was known by both names.

Jesus isn't peter. Jesus earthly father was a carpenter so it is expected. It doesn't mean it's his name.

If Jesus calls out with the Archangel's voice, does that signal anything to you?

The verse says Jesus comes down not calls out. You want to twist the scriptures and lie that this is there.

Or, would he call out and not action the reason for the call?

he didn't call out with the voice of angel Michael. The bible says he was coming down with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and trumpet call of God.

If the Archangel will go with his own army against the devil which is something that Jesus will equally do, does it mean that Jesus and his army are incompetent to execute a finish in the mission?

Bible never said Michael had an army and BTW Michael doesn't completely defeat the devil. The devil is cast down to earth.
Jesus and his army are not incompetent. Michael and his angels send the dragon to earth. The dragon doesn't even die.


Jesus is not angel Michael. No angel is ever called God's son (heb 1:5). Angels worshipped Jesus Christ
Heb 1:6.


We are explicitly told in Hebrews 2:5 that the world is not (and will not be) in subjection to an angel. Hebrews 2:5 makes it absolutely clear that no angel will rule in God’s kingdom. Christ the glorified God-man will reign supreme (Revelation 19:16).
Christ is to be the ruler of God’s kingdom (for example, Genesis 49:10; 2 Samuel 7:16; Psalm 2:6; Daniel 7:13-14; Luke 1:32-33; Matthew 2:1-2; 9:35; 13; Revelation 19:16).

At the second coming, the Lord Jesus shall be “revealed from heaven with his mighty angels” (2 Thessalonians 1:7, emphasis added). If the angels accompany Christ at the Second Coming, then surely the archangel Michael will accompany Him as

Jude 9, which says, “But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, ‘The Lord rebuke you.’” By contrast, Jesus personally rebuked the devil on a number of different occasions see, Matthew 4:10; 16:23; Mark 8:33.

removetheturban:
Michael is called the archangel (Jude 9). This term means chief angel. This shows that there is only one such angel.

Revelation 12:7 pictures Michael as the leader of the army of angels - the Bible states Michael and his angels battled with the dragon and its angels.

Matthew 16:27 says: "For the Son of man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each one according to his behavior."

So the Bible speaks of both Michael and his angels and Jesus and his angels

Since the Bible nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven, one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus, it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

Some have said that the scripture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 only refers to an archangel's voice. However, "voice" often refers to authority. It is not disrespectful to say that Jesus commands the angels, because he is the Son of God, to whom all authority was given to him by his Father. Matthew 28:18

But the real problem is the trinity doctrine, which Bible scholars have repeatedly stated was developed long after Jesus and his apostles.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

Another contention is that as a Person of the trinity, Jesus could not have been created by God. The Athanasian Creed, written long after the first century, asserts that each of the three Persons is uncreated. But the Bible says:

Col. 1:15, 16, RS: “He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth.”

Some say that "first-born" means prime, most excellent, but in the Bible it always means that the person was BORN.

Rev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him . . . ‘And to the angel of the church in La-odicea write: “The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning [Greek, ar•kheʹ] of God’s creation.”’” (KJ, Dy, CC, and NW.)

Not the beginner, but the beginning. The Greek word is clear.

That the trinity doctrine is man made and false is clear in the inspired scriptures:

Jesus prays to God. (John 17:1-3)
Jesus has faith in God. (Hebrews 2:17,18, Hebrews 3:2)
Jesus is a servant of God. (Acts 3:13)
Jesus does not know things God knows. (Mark 13:32, Revelation 1:1)
Jesus worships God. (John 4:22)
Jesus has one who is God to him. (Revelation 3:12)
Jesus is in subjection to God. (1 Corinthians 15:28)
Jesus' head is God. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

For these clear scriptural reasons, and for others in the source links, Jesus is not a Person of the trinity, he is the first born, only begotten Son of the Most High God, Savior and Ransomer who died for my sins. He is also the leader of all of the angels, and his role as such is clearly stated, The name Michael means "Who is Like God?" which indicates that he is the one who, more than anyone else, he will never take his Father's preeminence and authority as the "only true God," who "is one" and the "Most High". John 17:3 Mark 12:29; Psalm 83:18; Luke 1:32

rubbish of the highest order,Michael is never Jesus,in the book of Jude you mentioned Michael rebuked the devil in the name of the Lord (Jesus), which Jesus doesn't do instead he cast out demons just by ordering them to go.also Jude never reffered to Michael as Jesus but as an angel

removetheturban:
Michael is called the archangel (Jude 9). This term means chief angel. This shows that there is only one such angel.

Revelation 12:7 pictures Michael as the leader of the army of angels - the Bible states Michael and his angels battled with the dragon and its angels.

Matthew 16:27 says: "For the Son of man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each one according to his behavior."

So the Bible speaks of both Michael and his angels and Jesus and his angels

Since the Bible nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven, one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus, it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

Some have said that the scripture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 only refers to an archangel's voice. However, "voice" often refers to authority. It is not disrespectful to say that Jesus commands the angels, because he is the Son of God, to whom all authority was given to him by his Father. Matthew 28:18

But the real problem is the trinity doctrine, which Bible scholars have repeatedly stated was developed long after Jesus and his apostles.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

Another contention is that as a Person of the trinity, Jesus could not have been created by God. The Athanasian Creed, written long after the first century, asserts that each of the three Persons is uncreated. But the Bible says:

Col. 1:15, 16, RS: “He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth.”

Some say that "first-born" means prime, most excellent, but in the Bible it always means that the person was BORN.

Rev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him . . . ‘And to the angel of the church in La-odicea write: “The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning [Greek, ar•kheʹ] of God’s creation.”’” (KJ, Dy, CC, and NW.)

Not the beginner, but the beginning. The Greek word is clear.

That the trinity doctrine is man made and false is clear in the inspired scriptures:

Jesus prays to God. (John 17:1-3)
Jesus has faith in God. (Hebrews 2:17,18, Hebrews 3:2)
Jesus is a servant of God. (Acts 3:13)
Jesus does not know things God knows. (Mark 13:32, Revelation 1:1)
Jesus worships God. (John 4:22)
Jesus has one who is God to him. (Revelation 3:12)
Jesus is in subjection to God. (1 Corinthians 15:28)
Jesus' head is God. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

For these clear scriptural reasons, and for others in the source links, Jesus is not a Person of the trinity, he is the first born, only begotten Son of the Most High God, Savior and Ransomer who died for my sins. He is also the leader of all of the angels, and his role as such is clearly stated, The name Michael means "Who is Like God?" which indicates that he is the one who, more than anyone else, he will never take his Father's preeminence and authority as the "only true God," who "is one" and the "Most High". John 17:3 Mark 12:29; Psalm 83:18; Luke 1:32

If Jesus is Michael that was in heaven before, why did you people say Jesus is just a pure human and nothing divine in him or he doesn't have two nature?

Interesting question!
I am sure that whatever you heard from us was an explanation supporting a quote from the Bible. Philippians 2:7 says, "he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human".

The above is all we told you and nothing more. You cannot blame the JW for everything you feel someone got wrong.

Since you know all the evil about the JW, on a fair scale, can you tell me the good things that you appreciate us for?

Emusan:
If Jesus is Michael that was in heaven before, why did you people say Jesus is just a pure human and nothing divine in him or he doesn't have two nature?

removetheturban:
Interesting question!
I am sure that whatever you heard from us was an explanation supporting a quote from the Bible. Philippians 2:7 says, "he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human".

The above is all we told you and nothing more. You cannot blame the JW for everything you feel someone got wrong.

Since you know all the evil about the JW, on a fair scale, can you tell me the good things that you appreciate us for?

You were quoted by many and you chose to reply this. Go and answer the rest. Or they are too deep.

Do you remember when you told me that you wouldn't want to chat with me anymore? I said, "respect!"

Junia:

You were quoted by many and you chose to reply this. Go and answer the rest. Or they are too deep.

removetheturban:
Do you remember when you told me that you wouldn't want to chat with me anymore? I said, "respect!"

That's why I don't want to get involved in asking questions about what you are saying. I'm only asking you to reply the messages according to not according from .. lol
Its interesting, so please continue.

You're blessed

removetheturban:
Interesting question!
I am sure that whatever you heard from us was an explanation supporting a quote from the Bible. Philippians 2:7 says, "he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human".

The above is all we told you and nothing more. You cannot blame the JW for everything you feel someone got wrong.

Since you know all the evil about the JW, on a fair scale, can you tell me the good things that you appreciate us for?

Now my question is, what did Jesus empty Himself from?

Divine Body?
Divine Life?
Divine Person?
Divine Power?

The Bible said that he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.

Now, he was a spirit person in heaven and the father was fond of him. He was beside Jehovah as a master worker learning and being taught by Jehovah.

Emusan:

Now my question is, what did Jesus empty Himself from?

Divine Body?
Divine Life?
Divine Person?
Divine Power?

removetheturban:
The Bible said that he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.

Now, he was a spirit person in heaven and the father was fond of him. He was beside Jehovah as a master worker learning and being taught by Jehovah.

Speculation again.

removetheturban:
The Bible said that he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.

If the Bible says He emptied himself and took a slave form does it mean He is out of existence?

because only someone who died that is not exist!

The Bible says The Father SENT His Son, does it mean there nothing in the Son who live in heaven that was transferred to earth?

Now, he was a spirit person in heaven and the father was fond of him. He was beside Jehovah as a master worker learning and being taught by Jehovah.

No one asked you this!

If Jesus is Angel Michael in heaven, does it mean nothing in the man Jesus that retains the person of MICHAEL? that's the question.

Dear Sir,
I am not your child for you to disdainfully dictate how I respond to your questions. I came here of one own volition and I reserve the right to choose the pattern of conversation that I deem worthy. You have made many egregious comments about the JW and you want to impose your doctrine on us. Civility is a virtue, especially in a religion forum.

I refuse to continue in your ignoble pattern of conversation. Take the win and hit the road.

Emusan:

If the Bible says He emptied himself and took a slave form does it mean He is out of existence?

because only someone who died that is not exist!

The Bible says The Father SENT His Son, does it mean there nothing in the Son who live in heaven that was transferred to earth?

No one asked you this!

If Jesus is Angel Michael in heaven, does it mean nothing in the man Jesus that retains the person of MICHAEL? that's the question.

removetheturban:
Dear Sir,
I am not your child for you to disdainfully dictate how I respond to your questions. I came here of one own volition and I reserve the right to choose the pattern of conversation that I deem worthy. You have made many egregious comments about the JW and you want to impose your doctrine on us. Civility is a virtue, especially in a religion forum.

I refuse to continue in your ignoble pattern of conversation. Take the win and hit the road.

Abi it's the other way round? This one confuse you sha.
I noticed you jws become aggressive whenever brain tasking questions are posed to you guys. You refrain from answering these questions because they will definitely make you doubt those men in new York's bible interpretation.

deebrain:
I can't believe that you guys are this stupid as this....


I am in shock.

listen to them at your own peril. I had some if them coming to preach me. after arguments upon arguments with them failing to win any one. they had to run. listening to their teachings is a sure way to hell

Since you won all the arguments, are you here to celebrate it or will you redeem your prize on nairaland?

Octaves:
listen to them at your own peril. I had some if them coming to preach me. after arguments upon arguments with them failing to win any one. they had to run. listening to their teachings is a sure way to hell

removetheturban:
Since you won all the arguments, are you here to celebrate it or will you redeem your prize on nairaland?

No more argument to support your claim on angel Michael being Jesus?

@remvetheturban

The below verse is not saying Jesus called out with the voice of an arch angel.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.


It is simply stating that Jesus will come down to earth and the other things that will accompany that event will be a loud command, the voice of an arch angel and with the trumpet call of God.

If you claim the voice of an arch angel is pertaining to the voice of Jesus Christ, then you might as well tell us that He will be the one to blow the trumpet as written in the verse, a thing we know will be done by an angel, not Jesus.

The verse is similar to saying a celebrity showed up at an event, with paparazzi and loud music. Definitely, the celebrity is not the paparazzi cos they are the ones taking pictures of him. The music playing is similar to the trumpet in the Bible verse.

If Jesus calls out with the voice of an archangel while he is not, do you think that his sheep will realize his voice? John 10:27

If Jesus is not the archangel, would it not be a false alarm to the angels that the archangel is leading?

Would Jesus have a voice and choose not to use it given the authority that he had been given, and rather, choose to use the voice of someone lesser than him to make the call?

If the verse is not about Jesus, what army is Michael leading and who gave him that army?

Revelation 12:7 Who was it that battled with the devil?

2 Thessalonians 1:7 Who are the angels of Jesus and who are the angels of Michael? Is there a power tussle in heaven?

Only one person is leading the angels of Jehovah. So, tell me who he is.

alBHAGDADI:
@remvetheturban

The below verse is not saying Jesus called out with the voice of an arch angel.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.


It is simply stating that Jesus will come down to earth and the other things that will accompany that event will be a loud command, the voice of an arch angel and with the trumpet call of God.

If you claim the voice of an arch angel is pertaining to the voice of Jesus Christ, then you might as well tell us that He will be the one to blow the trumpet as written in the verse, a thing we know will be done by an angel, not Jesus.

The verse is similar to saying a celebrity showed up at an event, with paparazzi and loud music. Definitely, the celebrity is not the paparazzi cos they are the ones taking pictures of him. The music playing is similar to the trumpet in the Bible verse.

removetheturban:
If Jesus calls out with the voice of an archangel while he is not, do you think that his sheep will realize his voice? John 10:27

If Jesus is not the archangel, would it not be a false alarm to the angels that the archangel is leading?

Would Jesus have a voice and choose not to use it given the authority that he had been given, and rather, choose to use the voice of someone lesser than him to make the call?

If the verse is not about Jesus, what army is Michael leading and who gave him that army?

Revelation 12:7 Who was it that battled with the devil?

2 Thessalonians 1:7 Who are the angels of Jesus and who are the angels of Michael? Is there a power tussle in heaven?

Only one person is leading the angels of Jehovah. So, tell me who he is.

The Bible doesn't say Jesus calls out. It says Jesus is coming down with a loud command, with the voice of an angel and trumpet call of God.
You even have to twist the words in that verse. Haba

In the same rev you will see that the angel drove the dragon down to earth. The problem with you is that you abandon all other verses and focus on just one verse in a chapter to justify your doctrines.

Don't change the words in the scriptures. Are you afraid of saying "Jesus Christ is coming down " ? Why say "Jesus Christ calls out" you are a deceitful person

removetheturban:
If Jesus calls out with the voice of an archangel while he is not, do you think that his sheep will realize his voice? John 10:27

If Jesus is not the archangel, would it not be a false alarm to the angels that the archangel is leading?

Would Jesus have a voice and choose not to use it given the authority that he had been given, and rather, choose to use the voice of someone lesser than him to make the call?

If the verse is not about Jesus, what army is Michael leading and who gave him that army?

Revelation 12:7 Who was it that battled with the devil?

2 Thessalonians 1:7 Who are the angels of Jesus and who are the angels of Michael? Is there a power tussle in heaven?

Only one person is leading the angels of Jehovah. So, tell me who he is.

Where did you see in the Bible that there is a power tussle when things happen that way? Why are you speculating?
Where did the bible mention that there is only one person leading the angels of God? Bible verse reference

Op , if Jesus was an angel would there be any need for him to take up the nature of an angel again , as written below ?

Hebrews 2:16 KJV
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Op , we have been warned not to worship angels , but by calling Jesus an angel , it means we are worshipping an angel Michael. Is this not contradictory ?
The below is what the Bible says concerning people like you :

Colossians 2:18 KJV
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

To come with the voice of an archangel means Jesus will be accompanied by the angels including angel Michael who will announce the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ .

Matthew 25:31 KJV
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:


Angel Michael lacks the authority to rebuke Satan by himself but Jesus , even when made lower than the angels , had the authority to rebuke Satan by himself:

Jude 1:9 KJV
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The LORD rebuke thee.

MICHAEL COULD ONLY REBUKED SATAN IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.

Matthew 16:23 KJV
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto ME: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Jesus did not ask the devil to get behind in the name of the Lord as we read in the book of Jude. Jesus also accused Satan by saying " thou savourest not the things that be of God,but those that are of men". Michael could not do this but referred Satan to the fact that the Lord Jesus is against him.

enilove:
Op , if Jesus was an angel would there be any need for him to take up the nature of an angel again , as written below ?

Hebrews 2:16 KJV
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

What you did here is expose the heresy of the KJV even further. That verse in the KJV is heretical and a demonic way to thwart the word of God. I am confident that through you, the whole world would come to see how deluding the KJV has been for the 407 years that it has been published. Imagine the millions of innocent souls who have fallen victims to it.

Use other Bible versions to match the KJV or better still go to the Greek equivalent of where it was translated and see it for yourself.

enilove:

Op , we have been warned not to worship angels , but by calling Jesus an angel , it means we are worshipping an angel Michael. Is this not contradictory?
No, it is not because here is what Jesus himself said in Matthew 4:10 "It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.”
[quote author=enilove post=66828866]
The below is what the Bible says concerning people like you :

Colossians 2:18 KJV
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

This is what the KJV is doing to you.

enilove:

To come with the voice of an archangel means Jesus will be accompanied by the angels including angel Michael who will announce the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Be careful! You are practicing Colossians 2:18. Where in the Bible did it say that angel Michael will announce the coming of Jesus? Please show me.

enilove:

Matthew 25:31 KJV
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Check the boldened. If ALL THE ANGELS are with Jesus, which will be the angels of your supposed Michael?

And in whose formation will your archangel fall?

enilove:

Angel Michael lacks the authority to rebuke Satan by himself but Jesus

Thank you, very much! How can you explain Revelation 12:7-10 without contradicting yourself?

enilove:

even when made lower than the angels , had the authority to rebuke Satan by himself:

Okay

enilove:

Jude 1:9 KJV
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The LORD rebuke thee.

MICHAEL COULD ONLY REBUKED SATAN IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.

show me where it is written in the Bible if not, refresh your mind with Colossians 2:18

enilove:

Matthew 16:23 KJV
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto ME: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Jesus did not ask the devil to get behind in the name of the Lord as we read in the book of Jude. Jesus also accused Satan by saying " thou savourest not the things that be of God,but those that are of men". Michael could not do this but referred Satan to the fact that the Lord Jesus is against him.

Is it what the Bible said? Be Careful! Was the Lord Jesus mentioned in that verse?

removetheturban:
What you did here is expose the heresy of the KJV even further. That verse in the KJV is heretical and a demonic way to thwart the word of God. I am confident that through you, the whole world would come to see how deluding the KJV has been for the 407 years that it has been published. Imagine the millions of innocent souls who have fallen victims to it.

Use other Bible versions to match the KJV or better still go to the Greek equivalent of where it was translated and see it for yourself.

Now it's KJV is heretical because people call you out. You said she should use the Greek equivalent right?
Do you guys use the Greek equivalent? I remember you people putting names where they are never seen in the original Greek manuscripts eg using Jehovah in the nwt.

You have run out of arguments and now hide behind the curtain of KJV being heretical.

removetheturban:
Imagine the millions of innocent souls who have fallen victims to it

Imagine the number of witnesses who are not aware of the millions watchtower has paid to child abuse victims.

removetheturban:
Since you won all the arguments, are you here to celebrate it or will you redeem your prize on nairaland?

I don't have time to engage with you because your beliefs are fallacious and even sacrilegious at times. and you will never admit defeat rather you will find ways to prevaricate and obfuscate the whole issue like those who practice al taquiya. so its a waste of time and mb arguing with you false witnesses leading Gods people astray.