budaatum:

As I said, you don't always get what you like. That means you would sometimes be disappointed. Especially when making statements you claim you don't need provide evidence for! With some of the stuff I've been reading from you lately, do change that "sometimes" to "pretty often"!

budaatum:

And as op said, "provide evidence that will convince you as an individual", which is what Seun provided, the stars saying 'God', and not, provide evidence that would convince everyone, including you, vaxx!!

johnydon22:

Evidently you don't understand how logic works then ...

Seun:

If, within five minutes after a specific prayer by a theist, the stars in the sky were rearranged to spell I AM GOD: I EXIST, and it could be seen by everybody, and it could be scientifically confirmed by every astronomer that that the stars had indeed been moved around and it wasn't just an optical illusion, then I might be convinced that there exists a great mind out there which is capable of moving stars around in response to prayer.

Can any theist make this happen? (cc: winner01)

awesomeJ:

Divide 1 by 7 billion, what do you get? zero right?. That's how insignificant you are. Who cares whether or not you're convinced?

vaxx:
that request is not tenable...and I gave reasons...will you read up.....even my reasons were objective enough.

budaatum:

It's not tenable for you! I, myself, gave what would convince me that God exists. And I went on to state how the evidence that would convince me would be mocked and ridiculed by others.

But this would not be the first time you call what is subject to you, objective to everyone, I guess, so I shouldn't be surprised.

vaxx:
budaatum always make his case like a victim of a negative circumstances...

budaatum:

It is amusing how you can't see yourself in your very own description of others. I do wonder what the source of your pains is.

Seun:

If, within five minutes after a specific prayer by a theist, the stars in the sky were rearranged to spell I AM GOD: I EXIST, and it could be seen by everybody, and it could be scientifically confirmed by every astronomer that that the stars had indeed been moved around and it wasn't just an optical illusion, then I might be convinced that there exists a great mind out there which is capable of moving stars around in response to prayer.

Can any theist make this happen? (cc: winner01)

budaatum:
I do not need to reread what I wrote felix. I read it before posting it! I also read yours. You, however seem to have misunderstood mine.

There is verifiable evidence for one to know whether the holocaust happened or not. One does not have to believe it happened or not, but ignoring the evidence is just plain stupid.

To a "believer", the evidence for the existence of God is as compelling as the evidence for the holocaust. But I am afraid that both evidences are not of the same quality, as one requires belief for accepting former while belief is not required for the latter. One can know whether the holocaust happened or not, but ask yourself why believers don't seem to know whether gods exist or not!

Do note, I do not believe the holocaust happened because I know the holocaust happened. There is enough evidence showing it did, and equating the evidence for the existence of gods with the evidence for the holocaust is lame at best, or a misunderstanding of what constitutes as evidence.

Anas09:

Buda, there was this book you sent to me once "Heaven and Hell", can you pls resend it? I deleted it by mistake. I'll appreciate if you can. Thanks.

budaatum:

De Caelo et Eius Mirabilibus et de inferno, ex Auditis et Visis, Emanuel Swedenborg
Heaven and its Wonders and Hell, From Things Heard and Seen

Holuwaferanmi:


Stars are suns tho

budaatum:
.

johnydon22:
More correctly, the sun is a star

budaatum:

Holuwaferanmi:


yeah my bad , i just wondered how stars that are very distant from each other will be arranged to complete the task Mr seun Stated

johnydon22:
What is the book about?

johnydon22:


Argumentum ad populum

budaatum:

Is there anything like an Argumentum ad stupidity?

I come across it often but never know the Latin with which to describe it.

vaxx:
If you were smart, you would discuss -- not argue.

vaxx:

It seems you don't even understand the argument raised.

vaxx:

You seems to always look for excuses.....

budaatum:

It is proof for atheist buda, and not proof for all atheists! God will have to prove itself individually to every atheist, I'm afraid. But it's the Almighty God, so hardly a problem.


I too would call him mad! And I expect to be called mad if after my experience above, I go about telling atheists who did not witness it in its verifiable entirety that there is God o.


And so they must if they did not witness it. Even I would call me stupid having witnessed it; stupid for trying to convince people who didn't that it happened as I stated.


But that's the price of having information that is unverifiable by others. If people believed any odd stuff I say without me providing evidence for it, then they themselves are the stupid ones for believing me.

vaxx:

Agumentum ad stultus that is the Latin word but my advise don't use it on your fellow human.

budaatum:


You really are funny. Go through our last, and in fact, every discussion you and I have ever had to see who could not resist putting emotion into the discussion! Or would you claim the following are not clear enough examples of emotive arguing, rather pointlessly, and not discussing?





I'm not smart vaxx. O but for the grace of God go I.

budaatum:

Doesn't quite get the sentiment I'm after but thanks all the same.

vaxx:
Lol . Budaatum you are way smarter ,it is just an illustration. For you to know I acknowledged your superior intelligence I officially pronounce you a bhikkhu of Buddhist community.

budaatum:

I'm going to come over there and bhikkhu your butt vaxx! You set up these strawman arguments just so you can attempt to trap me in a "Thousand Flowers Fallacy", then you accuse me of having pain? Of course I have pain when you refuse to use the intelligent brain I know resides inside that skull of yours! Or do you not see how I hardly bother with the ape?!

It's good though. Like I said, you get me to learn and relearn stuff, and as I've said in response to winner01, it's how we move forward and evolve. I just wish you'd be more intellectually honest, but I know I can't always get what I want.

We should be mindful that other people read what we write and not misrepresent ourselves because of our egotistical tanhaic desire to seem right when we are wrong. As you yourself said, "people are not stupid". They see right through the rhetoric.

Anyway, I found a comprehensive list of fallacies worth considering and posted a link to them here. It seems logical fallacies have some stupid in them all.

vaxx:
I myself is a big fan of Buddha philosophy.....though not in agreement with some of the teaching.... I said the thread is a brain exercise and nothing more to it.

budaatum:

Buddhism itself is a brain exercise and some. If you think it impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, try Zen for a complete head fuq. The only comparable understanding in Christianity is Gnosticism ("out of Egypt I called my Son" ), and Sufism in Islam. But it would appear our current Nigerian understanding is rather fundamental - the form that places 'belief' above all else, and which leads to ignorance.

I guess it is as Christ said in response to the query from John, "the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and to the poor the Gift of God is given". bav

While many might claim the Spiritual is meant, they have not had spat on mud rubbed in their eyes so they cannot see and receive the Gift, despite their claim to have been born again. Perhaps there's just no 'poor' amongst us.

There is, indeed, hope for us yet. The Kingdom of God full of people with power and grace is being built one mind at a time.

vaxx:
I bet, you have never dive into an Islamic theology called mutazila.....read about thier philosophical stand and weight it with Buddha philosophy. you will be astonished.

Sufism is too full of mysticism and flamboyant rituals.i am very skeptical about the Idea just like contemporary Atr.

As for Gnosticism ,little of her literature has survived. as she brought down upon herself the animosity of the early Christian Church, and when this institution reached its position of world power it destroyed all available records of the Gnostic cultus. So some of her idea require more works from original source which is no where to be found.

Seun:

If, within five minutes after a specific prayer by a theist, the stars in the sky were rearranged to spell I AM GOD: I EXIST, and it could be seen by everybody, and it could be scientifically confirmed by every astronomer that that the stars had indeed been moved around and it wasn't just an optical illusion, then I might be convinced that there exists a great mind out there which is capable of moving stars around in response to prayer.

Can any theist make this happen? (cc: winner01)

Evangkatsoulis:

What language would the "I AM GOD: I EXIST" be arranged in? And how do you know if the everyday arrangement of stars spells "I AM GOD: I EXIST" in ancient languages long forgotten and that it's english equivalent is not a possible arrangement?
Again, why 5 minutes? Shebi the light we see from stars are from thousands or millions of years ago? Wouldn't that mean that God would be answering the prayers of someone millions of years ago?
And if I may ask, how does star arrangement prove that a transcendental being created the universe?

vaxx:
that request is not tenable...and I gave reasons...will you read up.....even my reasons were objective enough.