bloodofthelamb:
Romans 7:18_ For I know that in me(that is' in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good that I find not.

This verse over the years have been used to teach that the new creation has double nature.
It has also been used to teach that is normal for believers to struggle with sin.
Let's converse brethren.

Did JESUS CHRIST save/free us from sin or not? Those inside the air-craft do not struggle with gravity,
because the law of aero-dynamic has freed them from it.
According to multitude of scriptures we have been freed (Rom 6:18,)

Does it makes sense to still be struggling with something that I have been freed from?
Is Apostle Paul talking about his struggle with sin after he has been freed from it by grace through Jesus?
Or is he talking about his personal struggle with the law and sin before he met grace? Or grace met him.

Let's discuss. Take mote of the context of his argument and how Romans 7 begins..

MuttleyLaff:
I know that nothing good lives in me;
that is, nothing good lives in my corrupt nature.
Although I have the desire to do what is right, I don't do it.
- Romans 7:18

At face value, this is a very poignant and emotional verse.
Reading the verse caused to water my eyes
but we thank God, for Jesus

I was once fascinated about how and why Peter was able to walk on water
Also was intrigued about why the water stopped holding Peter up and what caused him to fall.
God is an attentive listener, and so, as usual didn't disappoint leading me to answers or vice versa.

bloodofthelamb:


Have you heard about "historical present" which I believe apostle Paul was employing here. "That is saying something that is past in a present tense to make it vivid."

bloodofthelamb:
Have you heard about the "historical present" which I believe apostle Paul was employing here. "That is saying something that is past in a present tense to make it vivid."

bloodofthelamb:
Beautiful opinion Sol. But what do you think about Rom7:14-25?
Is Paul expressing his struggle with sin after he got saved by grace, or before he got saved?

Do you think a believer is sold out to sin?

bloodofthelamb:
[quote author=MuttleyLaff

Go open the plane door, whilst in air, and see how the law of suction and gravity will make legally null and void the law of aerodynamics. \Quote/


Bro this is why Jesus Christ layed much emphasis on we abiding steadfastly in Him. For without Him we are nothing but victim to the law of sin and death. We see this in Peter.

Peter worked on water while abiding in Jesus Christ, but the moment his focus shifted he began to sink.

bloodofthelamb:
Beautiful opinion Sol. But what do you think about Rom7:14-25? Is Paul expressing his struggle with sin after he got saved by grace, or before he got saved?

Do you think a believer is sold out to sin?

solite3:
No, Paul was using what he was, to give an illustration of the sin nature of man in relation to God's law.

solite3:
I don't think Paul is just describing himself, he uses Romans 7:14-25 to illustrate the sin nature of man and how frustrating it is to live obediently under the law.

solite3:
No, Paul was using what he was, to give an illustration of the sin nature of man in relation to God's law.

bloodofthelamb:
Thank you! This is also my thought.
But so many people misunderstood Paul.

I have read so many articles on this verse talking about how the great apostle Paul was struggling with sin; doing things he doesn't want to do.
This is why I opened this thread.

muttleyLaff.

MuttleyLaff:
Like mentioned in my earlier post, Romans Chapter 7 is a preamble to Romans Chapter 8.
It is when Romans Chapter 7 is read in isolation that any will think it is talking about Paul struggling with sin or doing things he doesn't want to do.

bloodofthelamb:
Solite, Jiggaz, AlexRi, Ichuka, Janeyinspires/ MuttleyLaff, ScienceWatch, Johnw47 and all who has something edifying to say.

Let's reason together. May the Holy Spirit convict and convince us of the truth, that is the absolute mind of the Father in Jesus name. Amen!

bloodofthelamb:
Solite, Jiggaz, AlexRi, Ichuka, Janeyinspires/ MuttleyLaff, ScienceWatch, Johnw47 and all who has something edifying to say.

Let's reason together. May the Holy Spirit convict and convince us of the truth, that is the absolute mind of the Father in Jesus name. Amen!

Have you seen the pearl of wisdom hidden in Romans 7? Many miss it because they view the chapter as “not written for me” or as a mere prelude to chapter 8. This is a shame because if you can grasp what Paul says in Romans 7, it will save you a world of hurt. “Just remind me, what’s Romans 7 about?” I hear you ask. Romans 7 is where Paul says this:

I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. (Rm 7:15)

We’ve all been there. But before you pat yourself on the back and say, that’s how I used to be, before I met Christ, let me ask you this: Is Paul describing his old life as a sinner or is he describing struggles he’s faced as a believer? This question divides opinion but my view is that he is describing anyone who is walking after the flesh. In other words, his message is relevant for everyone.

Walking after the flesh

Walking after the flesh is what you do when you attempt to get your needs met independently of God. It’s leaning on your own understanding, relying on your own strength, and drawing from your own resources. Sinners do this routinely but Christians can act this way as well. In either case, the results are disastrous (Rms 8:13). Live solely on the basis of your own will-power and understanding and you will sow death into your relationships, your ministry, your finances, even your health:

There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death. (Pro 14:12)

“But Paul, doesn’t Romans 8:9 say, ‘you are not in the flesh but in the spirit’?” It does. But there’s a difference between being in the flesh and walking after the flesh. When Paul says, “we were in the flesh” (Rm 7:5), he is referring to our state before we were born again. We were in the flesh but now we are in the spirit.

But you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, (Rms 8:9a, NKJV).

We are not in the spirit because of the way we walk – flesh cannot give birth to spirit (Jn 6:6). But even though you are in the spirit you can still walk after the flesh. Even though you are in Christ, you can still act as though you were in Adam. Capiche?

So how do we know when we’re walking after the flesh? The New Testament is full of examples contrasting walking after the flesh (bad!) with walking after the spirit (good!). But sometimes what we need is a quick test to tell us whether we’re doing one or the other. Romans 7 provides just such a test.

The flesh test

“Am I walking after the flesh, yes or no?” In Romans 7, Paul shows that your answer to that question may be found by asking this pair of questions:

1. Am I doing what I hate to do?
2. Is this making me wretched and miserable?

If your answer to both of these questions is “yes,” then you’re walking after the flesh. The problem may not be what you’re doing so much as how you’re doing it. If you’re acting on the basis of your own might – your own resolve, understanding, and strength – then you’re walking after the flesh and God will have nothing to do with it. In Paul’s case he was trying to reform his sinful behavior by keeping the law. Yet no matter how hard he tried, he ended up doing the very thing that he hated. Doing what you don’t want to do is, for the Christian, a classic symptom of walking after the flesh:

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. (Gal 5:17, NKJV)

Okay, so what about the sinner? Does Paul’s flesh test apply to him as well? I believe it does because anyone who tries to get their needs met apart from God will, from time to time, feel wretched and miserable. Why? Because God made us that way. He created us with a whole bunch of needs so that we would look to Him to fulfill those needs. We weren’t designed to live independently of Him. When we do we can experience intense frustration and heartache. On the surface we may think we’re hurting because someone let us down or things didn’t turn out as expected. But the reality is we’re feeling like that because we were looking to someone or something other than God to get our needs met. We don’t live on the basis of our feelings, but if you’re feeling wretched then your flesh may be trying to tell you something. Your flesh test may be giving you a positive result. That’s good, for it’s doing exactly what it was designed to do!

Wretchedness and frustration are symptoms of walking after the flesh. You will not experience these feelings when you are walking after the spirit. I’m not saying everything’s going to come up roses. I am saying if you are able to stay focused on Jesus, then even in the face of hardship you will experience peace such as the world does not know:

For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (Rms 8:6, NKJV)

I got a positive test result – now what?

Okay, so you’ve taken the flesh test and discovered that, “Yes, even though I’m in the spirit I’m walking after the flesh. I’m trying to make something happen, it’s not happening, and I’m miserable. Now what?” Well the answer to that question is not a What but a Who, as we will see in the coming posts. But let me leave you with a quick suggestion by telling you what I am learning to do when I get a positive flesh test result: I go and lie down.

Lying down is not something I like to do. My flesh was built to be driven hard and I think sleeping is a waste of time. However, I often push myself too hard and this can lead to suffering and wretchedness. But by the grace of God I am learning. And one of the things I am discovering about myself is that I am less susceptible to the distractions of the flesh, and more in tune with the spirit, when I am horizontal.

Just this week, for example, I was banging my head against the wall and feeling frustrated about a project that was not turning out the way it was supposed to. Work harder, screamed my brain. I did, but to no avail. “I hate this,” said I. “It’s making me miserable.” Then revelation came. “Aha! I’m walking after the flesh. I’m trying to make something happen.” I immediately stopped. I pushed back from the desk and went and lay down on the rug in my office. (Believe me, this is hard for me!) Then I prayed a deep theological prayer that went like this: “Lord, I give up. I give up trying to make this happen. I give up leaning on my ability. This is not even my problem anymore – it’s Yours! Do whatever seems good to You.”

You have to understand that there was nothing wrong with what I was doing. But when you’re walking after the flesh even doing good can be bad for you. So I quit trying to make it happen and as soon as I did freedom came. My mind was instantly filled with life and peace and inspiration and creativity and solutions I had never dreamed of.

No cordless Christians

“Oh, so you were just recharging your batteries then.” Absolutely not! We don’t run on batteries and there are no cordless Christians! Christ is our life (Col 3:4). I was being transformed by the renewing of my mind. I was saying no to the flesh and yes to the spirit (Rm 8:5). I was setting my mind on things above and fixing my eyes back on Jesus. On this occasion He gave me a solution to my problem; on another occasion He might’ve suggested I drop the project and go play with the kids. Or He might’ve suggested something completely different. In any case I would’ve found life and peace by trusting Him.


If you’ve been feeling frustrated with the way things are turning out, then recognize the death-dealing work of the flesh. The best thing you can do is “put off” whatever it is that you’re doing and fix your eyes back on Jesus. You got distracted there for a bit but thank God for that wonderful flesh test of Romans 7 that has brought you back to your senses and back to Christ who is your life.

solite3:
thanks for your mention,
My view concerning this issue and indeed the biblical view is that,
yes when a when a man is born again he is a new creature but he has a choice to walk in this new nature or not.

Galatians 5:16-18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

note that the unsaved man does not have the Spirit so Paul isn't talking about the unsaved man.

in the early church Paul had to caution a lot of believers, against living like unbelivers and we are told as believers to put on the new man

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:


A believer will struggle with sin if he does not come to terms with his new status.

Again as believers we grow into the image of Christ as we focus on him,

2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.



Romans 8:8-13 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

naturally, we are pulled towards sin but the presence of Christ in us have broken that power but we have a choice to live after the flesh or after the Spirit.

bloodofthelamb:
Solite, Jiggaz, AlexRi, Ichuka, Janeyinspires/ MuttleyLaff, ScienceWatch, Johnw47 and all who has something edifying to say.

Let's reason together. May the Holy Spirit convict and convince us of the truth, that is the absolute mind of the Father in Jesus name. Amen!

bloodofthelamb:
Solite, Jiggaz, AlexRi, Ichuka, Janeyinspires/ MuttleyLaff, ScienceWatch, Johnw47 and all who has something edifying to say.

Let's reason together. May the Holy Spirit convict and convince us of the truth, that is the absolute mind of the Father in Jesus name. Amen!