[/color][b][/b]BE AWARE OF THE FOLLOWING WEBSITES:

1.    www.answeringislam.org
2.    www.aboutislam.com
3.    www.Thequran.com
4.    www.allahassurance.com

These and some other websites are purported to be islamic but are not. Their chief aim is to mischievously distort the message of islam in order to satisfy some hidden agenda, maybe just to anger muslims, or  probably cause them to deviate as is mostly the case with the honey coated pseudo islamic sites.

Many a time, the holy Quran has come under this kind of attack covertly. Copies of the Qur'an with
the message distorted have  been detected time and again, by hufaz and learned muallims. These distorted qur'ans it was hoped will find their way into the homes and minds of some unsuspecting muslims and cause them to deviate from the true teachings. What is hoped to be achieved through this is universal acceptance of an alternative way of life other than the one put forward by Islam. That way what is called 'radical islam' can be effaced eventually and we can all live in a 'gloriously harmonious' way as dictated by agents of the western way of life - a way of life that is certainly ruinous for the muslims.

Fortunately for muslims, Allah SWA Promised to Protect His book from dessecration and that is why, even if one letter, or syllable of the holy Qur'an is tampered with, it is immediately detected and muslims the world over are alerted. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of the ahadeeths, which are the sayings and the actions of the prophet (SAW). There have been hadeeths that have been attributed to the Prophet but for which there were no means of verifying their authenticity, or have come from a chain of narrators of whom one of them was of doubtful character. These hadeeths are termed da'if (weak) and for practical use, are best avoided. Knowledge of these hadeeths should be academic in the sense that one should know them  for what they are rather than for any pragmatic use. In order to appreciate this, one needs to have a very good knowledge of islam in all its ramifications.

Now these islamic sites which one should avoid, use these weak ahadeeths  to provide arguments over contentious issues in islam and give distorted views which are not held in the religion. For someone who is not fairly knowledgeable in islam, it is very easy to fall into the trap of believing these alternative arguments and distorted views because they are presented in a very convincing way, which can only be refuted by someone with a lot of knowledge and understanding of laws of Islam.[b][/b][i][/i][/size][size=8pt][color=#550000][color=#550000][/color]

spicie:

[/color][/b]Fortunately for muslims, Allah SWA Promised to Protect His book from dessecration and that is why, even if one letter, or syllable of the holy Qur'an is tampered with, it is immediately detected and muslims the world over are alerted. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of the ahadeeths, which are the sayings and the actions of the prophet (SAW). There have been hadeeths that have been attributed to the Prophet but for which there were no means of verifying their authenticity, or have come from a chain of narrators of whom one of them was of doubtful character. These hadeeths are termed da'if (weak) and for practical use, are best avoided. Knowledge of these hadeeths should be academic in the sense that one should know them for what they are rather than for any pragmatic use. In order to appreciate this, one needs to have a very good knowledge of islam in all its ramifications.
[b][i][/i][/size][size=8pt][color=#550000][color=#550000][/color]

See this hypocrite! Is it the same allah that "forgot" to protect the injil, psalms and torah he was purported to have "sent and confirmed"?

So the ahadeeths are now for mere academic excercise and not for any pragmatic use? Does this only apply when the illogical incoherence is pointed out and then suddenly becomes relevant when we need to point to mohammed's non existent miracles?

Since the prayers and 5 pillars of islam are in the ahadeeth and NOT the quran, how does this apply in regard to weak hadeeths that are only for academic excercise?

@specie,

spicie:

BE AWARE OF THE FOLLOWING WEBSITES:

1. www.answeringislam.org
2. www.aboutislam.com
3. www.Thequran.com
4. www.allahassurance.com

These and some other websites are purported to be islamic but are not. Their chief aim is to mischievously distort the message of islam in order to satisfy some hidden agenda, maybe just to anger muslims, or probably cause them to deviate as is mostly the case with the honey coated pseudo islamic sites.

For fairness' sake, you forgot to sound the same alarm about the website where some of your Muslim apologetists plagiarize their material from:

www.answeringchristianity.com

There are several aother websites that have the same malicious agenda against Christianity and in favour of Islam. While the folks at answeringislam.com would seek to intelligently debate issues, can you say the same thing as the desperate and frantic vitriol you read of at answeringchristianity.com?

spicie:

Many a time, the holy Quran has come under this kind of attack covertly. Copies of the Qur'an with
the message distorted have been detected time and again, by hufaz and learned muallims. These distorted qur'ans it was hoped will find their way into the homes and minds of some unsuspecting muslims and cause them to deviate from the true teachings. What is hoped to be achieved through this is universal acceptance of an alternative way of life other than the one put forward by Islam.

Most of the distortions have been put forward originally by Muhammad. Your complaint here is of little substance, and at best is another propagandist effort to deny and sandpaper what we already know. Unless, of course, you'd want to start denying that the "traditions" - the Hadiths - are dishonest, then this whitewash you're applying to authentic Islamic distortion by Muslims themselves is a waste of space.

spicie:

That way what is called 'radical islam' can be effaced eventually and we can all live in a 'gloriously harmonious' way as dictated by agents of the western way of life - a way of life that is certainly ruinous for the muslims.

That "radical Islam" is taking over 1400 years to "efface" will not convinve anybody - including YOU - that we can all live in "glorious harmony!" At least, "the western way of life" has been home for millions of Muslims who have migrated to that hemisphere to find a safe haven from the key to the promise of 72 virgins - the key being none other than to die for 'allah!'

If protecting life is "certainly ruinous for the muslims", littel wonder then that we understand your ideology of authentic Islam!

spicie:

Fortunately for muslims, Allah SWA Promised to Protect His book from dessecration and that is why, even if one letter, or syllable of the holy Qur'an is tampered with, it is immediately detected and muslims the world over are alerted.

The tampering did not start today. Right from Muhammad's day, in his very presence and under his direction, the syllable and letters of the verses of the Qur'an were tampered with. How many Muslims are aware that there is ample evidence for that in the Hadith??

spicie:

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of the ahadeeths, which are the sayings and the actions of the prophet (SAW). There have been hadeeths that have been attributed to the Prophet but for which there were no means of verifying their authenticity, or have come from a chain of narrators of whom one of them was of doubtful character. These hadeeths are termed da'if (weak) and for practical use, are best avoided.

The da'if (weak) hadeeths are only a matter of political embarrassment to the Ulema of Islam. As long as they are in current use by Muslims the world over, there is nothing "weak" about them. Fault one, then fault ALL!

spicie:

Knowledge of these hadeeths should be academic in the sense that one should know them for what they are rather than for any pragmatic use. In order to appreciate this, one needs to have a very good knowledge of islam in all its ramifications.

How can anyone be sure that he has a right interpretation of Islam in "all of its ramifications" when the hadith also says that even if some is right, he is still in error??

spicie:

Now these islamic sites which one should avoid, use these weak ahadeeths to provide arguments over contentious issues in islam and give distorted views which are not held in the religion.

Thank you for reminding us again that you were trying to count them as "non-Islamic sites", but because your mind was occupied in your propaganda, you inadvertently called them "islamic sites". As for the distorted views, they are actually being held unto by the millions in the religion of Islam.

spicie:

For someone who is not fairly knowledgeable in islam, it is very easy to fall into the trap of believing these alternative arguments and distorted views because they are presented in a very convincing way, which can only be refuted by someone with a lot of knowledge and understanding of laws of Islam.

Since they are presented in "a very convincing way", most of the Muslim apologists who have stepped forward with their whole "lot of knwledge and understanding of laws of Islam" have done nothing but carried the baton of ignorance and roundabout debates that are only too characteristic of the propagandists who send them as errand boys.

@spicie


Pls leave them alone, I am very aware of those sites and their authors. Thats where most of them lift their false allegations from which had been debunked in some many ways. I am not even bothered, they can lift from any site and be rest assured that they would be debunked.


@stimulus

I learnt that you cannot put up any debate without insulting my God and prophet. It has become christians' problem here on nairaland that whenever any issue is being discussed, they quickly divert to Muhammed. I can see that He is really your problem and whether you like it not, nothing for you unless you accept him. Islam is the only religion whether you like it or not.


@davidylan


It has become your nature to always go other way when issues are being discussed. Keep wallowing in your ignorance.

Peace

@babs787,

babs787:

I learnt that you cannot put up any debate without insulting my God and prophet.

Wrong. I do not go out to insult your God or prophet, or even any other religion. If anything, you have surreptitiously slandered Christ and Christianity.

babs787:

It has become christians' problem here on nairaland that whenever any issue is being discussed, they quickly divert to Muhammed.

I can't deny that; but count me out from that observation as my posts can testify it is not my style to "quickly" divert to Muhammad. However, I have observed on several occasions that you do the very same thing you complain about, which is not a rational attitude towards other discussants.

babs787:

I can see that He is really your problem and whether you like it not, nothing for you unless you accept him. Islam is the only religion whether you like it or not.

Thank you; but I'm not surprised you're once again beginning to chant the 'conversion by force' slogan in Islam. Now, whether the sky falls down or not, stimulus is a sensible Christian who loves to see people come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ without the use of militant force.

God bless.

@stimulus

Thank you; but I'm not surprised you're once again beginning to chant the 'conversion by force' slogan in Islam. Now, whether the sky falls down or not, stimulus is a sensible Christian who loves to see people come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ without the use of militant force.


I will give you just two verses in response to your post above

Quran 3 v 85: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter, he will be in the ranks of those who have lost.

Quran 3 v 91;Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam. Those who were given the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat (proofs, evidences, signs, revelations etc) of Allah, then surely, Allah is swift in caling to account.

stimulus:

@babs787,

Wrong. I do not go out to insult your God or prophet, or even any other religion. If anything, you have surreptitiously slandered Christ and Christianity.

I can't deny that; but count me out from that observation as my posts can testify it is not my style to "quickly" divert to Muhammad. However, I have observed on several occasions that you do the very same thing you complain about, which is not a rational attitude towards other discussants.

Thank you; but I'm not surprised you're once again beginning to chant the 'conversion by force' slogan in Islam. Now, whether the sky falls down or not, stimulus is a sensible Christian who loves to see people come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ without the use of militant force.

God bless.

babs787:

@stimulus

Thank you; but I'm not surprised you're once again beginning to chant the 'conversion by force' slogan in Islam. Now, whether the sky falls down or not, stimulus is a sensible Christian who loves to see people come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ without the use of militant force.


I will give you just two verses in response to your post above

Quran 3 v 85: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter, he will be in the ranks of those who have lost.

Quran 3 v 91;Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam. Those who were given the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat (proofs, evidences, signs, revelations etc) of Allah, then surely, Allah is swift in caling to account.

BABS HAVE YOU HEARD OF VALIDATION PRINCIPLE AT ALL. I KNOW YOU DONT? DO YOU KNOW IT IS ONLY THE BIBLE THAT THAT HAS BEEN SUBJECTED TO SUCH IN HISTORY? I KNOW YOU DONT KNOW.
NOBODY DARES SAY ANYTHING TO VALIDATE THE QURAN, WHY? WHAT IS THERE TO HIDE.
LET ME TELL YOU A STORY:

One day the angel of God came and sat down under the oak in Ophrah that belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, whose son Gideon was threshing wheat in the winepress, out of sight of the Midianites. The angel of God appeared to him and said, "God is with you, O mighty warrior!"

Gideon replied, "With me, my master? If God is with us, why has all this happened to us? Where are all the miracle-wonders our parents and grandparents told us about, telling us, 'Didn't God deliver us from Egypt?' The fact is, God has nothing to do with us—he has turned us over to Midian."

But God faced him directly: "Go in this strength that is yours. Save Israel from Midian. Haven't I just sent you?"

Gideon said to him, "Me, my master? How and with what could I ever save Israel? Look at me. My clan's the weakest in Manasseh and I'm the runt of the litter."

God said to him, "I'll be with you. Believe me, you'll defeat Midian as one man."

Gideon said, "If you're serious about this, do me a favor: Give me a sign to back up what you're telling me. Don't leave until I come back and bring you my gift."

He said, "I'll wait till you get back."

Gideon went and prepared a young goat and a huge amount of unraised bread (he used over half a bushel of flour!). He put the meat in a basket and the broth in a pot and took them back under the shade of the oak tree for a sacred meal.

The angel of God said to him, "Take the meat and unraised bread, place them on that rock, and pour the broth on them." Gideon did it.

The angel of God stretched out the tip of the stick he was holding and touched the meat and the bread. Fire broke out of the rock and burned up the meat and bread while the angel of God slipped away out of sight. And Gideon knew it was the angel of God!

Gideon said, "Oh no! Master, God! I have seen the angel of God face-to-face!"

But God reassured him, "Easy now. Don't panic. You won't die."

Then Gideon built an altar there to God and named it "God's Peace." It's still called that at Ophrah of Abiezer.

That night this happened. God said to him, "Take your father's best seven-year-old bull, the prime one. Tear down your father's Baal altar and chop down the Asherah fertility pole beside it. Then build an altar to God, your God, on the top of this hill. Take the prime bull and present it as a Whole-Burnt-Offering, using firewood from the Asherah pole that you cut down."

Gideon selected ten men from his servants and did exactly what God had told him. But because of his family and the people in the neighborhood, he was afraid to do it openly, so he did it that night.

Early in the morning, the people in town were shocked to find Baal's altar torn down, the Asherah pole beside it chopped down, and the prime bull burning away on the altar that had been built.

They kept asking, "Who did this?"

Questions and more questions, and then the answer: "Gideon son of Joash did it."

The men of the town demanded of Joash: "Bring out your son! He must die! Why, he tore down the Baal altar and chopped down the Asherah tree!"

But Joash stood up to the crowd pressing in on him, "Are you going to fight Baal's battles for him? Are you going to save him? Anyone who takes Baal's side will be dead by morning. If Baal is a god in fact, let him fight his own battles and defend his own altar." They nicknamed Gideon that day Jerub-Baal because after he had torn down the Baal altar, he had said, "Let Baal fight his own battles."

THE STORY ABOVE IS ACTUALLY IN THE BIBLE-JUDGES CHAPTER 6. WE DONT DEFEND GOD AND WHAT HE SAYS BY GETTING RID OF OPPOSITION BUT WE LET GOD PROVE HIMSELF HAS GOD.
HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT THAT WE MAY ACTUALLY NOT NEED TO FIGHT ON HIS BEHALF IF INDEED HE IS GOD-THE ALMIGHTY.
WHEN VIEWS DONT FALL INLINE WITH YOURS, IT DOESNT MEAN THAT PERSON IS AN ENEMY. IF IT PERTAINS TO GOD, LET GOD ARISE.

babs787:

@davidylan


It has become your nature to always go other way when issues are being discussed. Keep wallowing in your ignorance.

Peace

I have only seen 2 people wallowiing in ignorance here, blabs787 and spicie!

@Jeshua

What is the moral behind your story? I want to know

Did you read it at all? okay in simple words- LET GOD DEFEND HIMSELF, AND DONT TRY AND FIGHT FOR HIM.
Read the post again carefully with yours wide open and be honest please

@jeshua

I dont have time to read all that, I have lots to do than sitting and reading lenghty posts.

Did you read it at all? okay in simple words- LET GOD DEFEND HIMSELF, AND DONT TRY AND FIGHT FOR HIM.

Is your response above for me or for your christian folks?

FALSEHOOD CANT DETHRONE FALSEHOOD. I meant you ofcourse. Let Gods word if it is Gods word defend HIM.

Jeshua

Arent you a man? Common be specific. Hit the nail on the head

@babs787,

babs787:

@stimulus

Thank you; but I'm not surprised you're once again beginning to chant the 'conversion by force' slogan in Islam. Now, whether the sky falls down or not, stimulus is a sensible Christian who loves to see people come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ without the use of militant force.


I will give you just two verses in response to your post above

Quran 3 v 85: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter, he will be in the ranks of those who have lost.

Quran 3 v 91;Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam. Those who were given the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat (proofs, evidences, signs, revelations etc) of Allah, then surely, Allah is swift in caling to account.

Believe me, I would have remained silent after reading your response. However, out of mutual respect, let me say the following:

(1) Quoting those verses above simply confirms my point: Islam is synonymous with "conversion by militant force" - and there are other verses in the Hadith to testify and doubly confirm that.

(2) We need to place all our cards on the table in a public discussion so that issues can be examined fairly. In which case, one cannot claim to be receiving "revelations" from God and making statements that contradict history. Jews and Christians are not jealous of one another; and if you actually want to know, it is actually Christians that are standing in support of Israel today than the Muslims dare claim.

The fact that Islam is self-accusative and actually guilty of antipathy towards the Jews is well attested to in the Qur'an and the Hadiths. I hope you can honestly live with these facts in the Qur'an.

Cheers.

@stimulus


Believe me, I would have remained silent after reading your response. However, out of mutual respect, let me say the following:

Thanks for that.


(1) Quoting those verses above simply confirms my point: Islam is synonymous with "conversion by militant force" - and there are other verses in the Hadith to testify and doubly confirm that.

Let me have them please. Hope you know Indonesia, are you telling me that militant made them muslims by force?


(2) We need to place all our cards on the table in a public discussion so that issues can be examined fairly. In which case, one cannot claim to be receiving "revelations" from God and making statements that contradict history. Jews and Christians are not jealous of one another; and if you actually want to know, it is actually Christians that are standing in support of Israel today than the Muslims dare claim.


If you want to place your cards on the table, babs is ready as well but do not accuse babs of anything as far as religius threads are concerned. Christians of all people telling Muslims that their revelations contradicts history, see the kettle calling pot black. Do muslims say that they are standing in support of Israel than Christians? Brother, it seems you dont know jewish history with regards to Muslim. A good student of history and International relations will have no doubt in his mind that the Jews are the root cause(s) of most of the problems in the world today - political, economic, cultural religious etc.



The fact that Islam is self-accusative and actually guilty of antipathy towards the Jews is well attested to in the Qur'an and the Hadiths. I hope you can honestly live with these facts in the Qur'an.

Still on the jew, let me quote some of their statements

In the year of Balfour Declaration, Dr. Nahum Goldman, president of the world Jewish Congress explained

"The Jews might have had Uganda, Madagascar and other places for the establishment of a Jewish "fatherland" but they want absolutely nothing except Palestine; not because the dead sea water by evaporation can produce five trillion dollars worth of metalloids and powdered metal; not because the sub-soil of Paestine contains twenty times more petroleum than all the combined reserve of the two Americans; but because Palestine is the crossroads of Europe, Aisa, and Africa, because Palestine constitute the veritable centre of world, political power, the strategic centre for world control"

"The problem of the Jewish people is that the Islamic religion is still living in rancour and expansion, it gives no place for any solutions with Israel. This religion is our mortal enemy that threatens the future of Israel and its people"

"We do not fear Socialism, Revolutionism and Democratism in the Region, the only thing we fear is Islam, the giant that has slept for long"

"The most dreadful thing we fear is the appearabce of a new Muhammed in the Arab world"

There is also a quote that as long as the Quran exists, Israel will not be in peace that if they want to fight Muslim ,they must start with the Quran

Cheers.

@babs787,

babs787:

(1) Quoting those verses above simply confirms my point: Islam is synonymous with "conversion by militant force" - and there are other verses in the Hadith to testify and doubly confirm that.

Let me have them please. Hope you know Indonesia, are you telling me that militant made them muslims by force?

Sahih Muslim Book 001, #0031: It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that he heard the Messenger of Allah say: I have been commanded to fight against people, till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the messenger (from the Lord) and in all that I have brought. And when they do it, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Sahih Muslim Book 001, #0032: It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded that I should fight against people till they declare that there is no god but Allah, and when they profess it that there is no god but Allah, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah, and then he (the Holy Prophet) recited (this verse of the Holy Qur'an):" Thou art not over them a warden" (lxxxviii, 22).

[for those who might be wondering, (lxxxviii, 22) = Qur'an 88:22 - "You are not a watcher over them"].

babs787:

If you want to place your cards on the table, babs is ready as well but do not accuse babs of anything as far as religius threads are concerned. Christians of all people telling Muslims that their revelations contradicts history, see the kettle calling pot black. Do muslims say that they are standing in support of Israel than Christians? Brother, it seems you don't know jewish history with regards to Muslim. A good student of history and International relations will have no doubt in his mind that the Jews are the root cause(s) of most of the problems in the world today - political, economic, cultural religious etc.

Thanks for yet again confirming my assertion that Islam is anti-Jewish by default. I've heard that slogan over and over again, and even posted it for abdkabir to view online. It is a bloody lie that has been fabricated by. . . you guessed who: Muslims. Little wonder that some Muslims are trying ever so hard to deny the holocaust; and if that were just mere chess-game, then again it was a Muslim who called for the annihilation of Israel. No?

babs787:

Still on the jew, let me quote some of their statements

In the year of Balfour Declaration, Dr. Nahum Goldman, president of the world Jewish Congress explained

"The Jews might have had Uganda, Madagascar and other places for the establishment of a Jewish "fatherland" but they want absolutely nothing except Palestine; not because the dead sea water by evaporation can produce five trillion dollars worth of metalloids and powdered metal; not because the sub-soil of Paestine contains twenty times more petroleum than all the combined reserve of the two Americans; but because Palestine is the crossroads of Europe, Aisa, and Africa, because Palestine constitute the veritable centre of world, political power, the strategic centre for world control"

"The problem of the Jewish people is that the Islamic religion is still living in rancour and expansion, it gives no place for any solutions with Israel. This religion is our mortal enemy that threatens the future of Israel and its people"

"We do not fear Socialism, Revolutionism and Democratism in the Region, the only thing we fear is Islam, the giant that has slept for long"

"The most dreadful thing we fear is the appearabce of a new Muhammed in the Arab world"

There is also a quote that as long as the Quran exists, Israel will not be in peace that if they want to fight Muslim ,they must start with the Quran

Cheers.

Yet again, you have confirmed my point. Here, let me quote a line of standing observation:

"The problem of the Jewish people is that the Islamic religion is still living in rancour and expansion, it gives no place for any solutions with Israel."

Is that not true, babs787? What is really the ideology behind the seething hatred that Muslims have against the Jews?

Was it an "Israeli" also who prophesied that the last hour shall not come until Muslims fight against the Jews and kill them all? If your answer is "YES", then please tell me the name of the "Israeli-turned-ARAB" that made this statement before his death:

Sahih Muslim Book 041, #6985: Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

Sahih Muslim Book 041, #6903: Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last Hour will not come unless there is much bloodshed. They said: What is harj? Thereupon he said: Bloodshed. bloodshed.

Dr. Nahum Goldman, to my knowledge, has not called for the "last hour" for Jews to KILL Muslims everywhere until they hide behind trees, has he? Look at the hadiths again and see who fed that ideology to Muslims: who was it? _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (please fill in the gaps)!!

I thought we had another sensible topic when I saw this topic, but alas, ignorance wants to reign

I wish dolts like babs787 and spicie will only use their brains for a second and reason outside the box!

why not create the sensible one .


why did you bother posting in here?

since you got ur own brain use it for sensible reasons then . .

mukina2:

why not create the sensible one .


why did you bother posting in here?

since you got your own brain use it for sensible reasons then . .

E gbami oh!!
Wetin I do you Muki Muki,
Haba, leave me alone! If you love me just tell me! This unholy style tire me oh!

mukina2:

why not create the sensible  one .


why did you bother posting in here?

since you  got your own brain use it for sensible reasons then . .

GBAM  

mrpataki:



E gbami oh!!
Wetin I do you Muki Muki,
Haba, leave me alone! If you love me just tell me! This unholy style tire me oh!

thunder scatter ur keyboard .

why must you call people ignorant

i pity ur soul

@stimulus

Honestly, I do weep a lot for your trying to twist the hadith when it is glaring that the hadiths quoted happened during the oppression being faced by muslims.


Sahih Muslim Book 001, #0031: It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that he heard the Messenger of Allah say: I have been commanded to fight against people, till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the messenger (from the Lord) and in all that I have brought. And when they do it, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Sahih Muslim Book 001, #0032: It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded that I should fight against people till they declare that there is no god but Allah, and when they profess it that there is no god but Allah, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah, and then he (the Holy Prophet) recited (this verse of the Holy Qur'an):" Thou art not over them a warden" (lxxxviii, 22).

[for those who might be wondering, (lxxxviii, 22) = Qur'an 88:22 - "You are not a watcher over them"].

Brother, you are a professor I think. The above hadiths are self-explanatory unless you want to be kidding yourself. The above incidents happened during the wars fought by the prophet. Why cant you be honest with yourself and give us the reason that made the prophet fight. Did he fight to force them to Islam or for aggression and oppression? You didnt tell when the prophet left his community with his Umah leaving behind ther properties. You didnt tell when the prophets and his Umah were not allowed to do anything with the commnunity, they were not sold anything for etc. You didnt tell of the Hijrah of the prophet. What sort of dishonesty is this brother?

Once muslims were about to go into battle, and were eager to begin. The Prophet said; 'No, do not be eager to meet the enemy, but if you meet them persevere and have patience'. 'It is not the idea of fighting for the sake of fighting.'. If you go to the battle field, after exhausting all means of resolving a dispute with the enemy in a peaceful way a final attempt at peace has to be made even when the armies are all drawn up ready for battle. We should call on them for the last time to see if they will accept a just solution hence the verse:

Quran 8 v 61: But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it and (put your) trust in Allah. Verily, He is the Al-Hearer, the All-Knower.

Even when you go to the battlefied, the Proohet and his companions taught that you must not kill a woman who is not fighting, a child and old woman or even a young man who devotes himself to religious purposes. You do not destroy properties. You dont even kill animals for other than the necessity of food unlike in the bible where everybody, young, old, animal were not spared but only virgin were spared (I wonder how they know virgins).

Some prisoners of wars became Muslims because they observed that their Muslims captors were giving them better food than they themselves were eating. It softened their hearts and brought them to Islam.

When the prophet entered Meccs victoriously, he did not go about like big leaders who walk on the earth proudly. He was lowering his head until it touched his camel. When he gathered the unbelievers (who had earlier persecuted him and tortured muslims) around the Kabah, he said to them:'what do you think I am going to do to you'? They said, 'You are an honoured brother, son of an honoured brother'. He said, 'You may go, you are all free'.

It was as a result of the above that brought them into Islam in large numbers. I gave stories of 20 christians from Najran too that accepted Islam. If he had fought unjustly, they wouldnt have accepted Islam.





Thanks for yet again confirming my assertion that Islam is anti-Jewish by default. I've heard that slogan over and over again, and even posted it for abdkabir to view online. It is a bloody lie that has been fabricated by. . . you guessed who: Muslims. Little wonder that some Muslims are trying ever so hard to deny the holocaust; and if that were just mere chess-game, then again it was a Muslim who called for the annihilation of Israel. No?


On the issue of Jews. If they sue for peace, Muslims will likwise do. What do you call a situation where a civilian is being shot for throwing pebbles? What do you call the Uranium being used on civilians in Iraq, Palestine etc. You need to find out the History of Terrorism and also go find out about the origin of Arab-Jewish conflict. Even the so called Jews are not claiming the land being their father land but as a result of other benefits worth more than that. Read above please.


Yet again, you have confirmed my point. Here, let me quote a line of standing observation:

"The problem of the Jewish people is that the Islamic religion is still living in rancour and expansion, it gives no place for any solutions with Israel."


Did you read my post above. You picked one but ignored the rest. This is the concluding part.

This religion is our mortal enemy that threatens the future of Israel and its people"


It didnt surprise me your lifting part of a quote and ignoring the otrhers. Thats how your authors do too. So keep it up.

How many peace treaties have been signed yet Jews never abide by them? Yes they believe that as long as Islam are in Unison, no way for Israel. Have you asked yourself why America is suing for peace, gives Israel ammunition but never allowed Muslims to do so. Is that justice.


You didnt say anything on these

"We do not fear Socialism, Revolutionism and Democratism in the Region, the only thing we fear is Islam, the giant that has slept for long"

"The most dreadful thing we fear is the appearabce of a new Muhammed in the Arab world"

There is also a quote that as long as the Quran exists, Israel will not be in peace that if they want to fight Muslim ,they must start with the Quran

They are afraid of the unison of the Islamic world.


Is that not true, babs787? What is really the ideology behind the seething hatred that Muslims have against the Jews?

You are not a jew, so let me have a jew and we will iron things out. Go find out the history of Arab-Israel conflict and get back at me.



Was it an "Israeli" also who prophesied that the last hour shall not come until Muslims fight against the Jews and kill them all? If your answer is "YES", then please tell me the name of the "Israeli-turned-ARAB" that made this statement before his death:

So the person that said it was an Israeli. Na wa o .



Sahih Muslim Book 041, #6985: Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

So Muhammad was an Israeli?


Sahih Muslim Book 041, #6903: Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last Hour will not come unless there is much bloodshed. They said: What is harj? Thereupon he said: Bloodshed. bloodshed.

Can you please expanciate on that bloodshed please as being written in the Hadith and your understanding?


Dr. Nahum Goldman, to my knowledge, has not called for the "last hour" for Jews to KILL Muslims everywhere until they hide behind trees, has he? Look at the hadiths again and see who fed that ideology to Muslims: who was it? _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (please fill in the gaps)!!

Really ,he hasnt done that but he's been exchanging gunshot with stone pellets and also used Uranium on civilians.


Peace.

@babs787,

We all know that even if the Jews sued for peace, MUSLIMS will NEVER let them be!! That is the fundamental "prophecy" given by Muhammad as part of the tenets of ISLAM!!

           Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:

                      The last hour would not come unless
                                 
      the Muslims will fight against the Jews  and the Muslims would kill them

       until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say:

  Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him;

                       but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

                                                             ---  [Sahih Muslim Book 041, #6985]


Pretending that you don't understand that Hadith is to play the usual AL-TAQIYYA that is only too characteristic of Islamic reasoning!!

babs787:

Really ,he hasnt done that but he's been exchanging gunshot with stone pellets and also used Uranium on civilians.

You forgot that the same hezbollah used rockets with ball bearings on Isreali kindergarten schools? Or is that part of the islamic manipulation of the truth to suit their agenda? You forget the suicide bombers?
You forget that had the weapons been on the other side Isreal would long have ceased to exist?

What about Saddam who used chemical gases on his own people? The islamic world only seems to notice the sins of the isrealis never theirs! Hypocrites!

The only thing to be aware of is living amongst Muslims especially if you are in the minority.
The evidence of the sudden violence is glaring and no one ought to be taken unawares.

davidylan:

You forgot that the same hezbollah used rockets with ball bearings on Isreali kindergarten schools? Or is that part of the islamic manipulation of the truth to suit their agenda? You forget the suicide bombers?
You forget that had the weapons been on the other side Isreal would long have ceased to exist?

What about Saddam who used chemical gases on his own people? The islamic world only seems to notice the sins of the isrealis never theirs! Hypocrites!

and what about the shittes and sunnis,where do they keep the "five pillars of peace and love" while striking off the heads of their opponents?
Where was the outcry when saddam killed his own people?
Where is the outcry as the arab Sudanese wipe off the black sudanese and capture their 9 year olds as booties.
Where is the outcry as the somalian women are raped and demeaned 5 pillars and all.

Often there is a strange transformation in the viewpoint of some Muslims who seek to immigrate to a Western nation. At first, these Muslims complain to immigration officials about their native country and its lack of opportunities, human rights, religious liberties, and intellectual freedom. However, once they settle in a Western nation and enjoy its liberties, some turn against their host nation and begin to praise the virtue’s of an Islamic state. They seem to have forgotten their pleadings with immigration officials to accept their application. They would be upright, and certainly more honest, if they would strive for human and religious rights for the non-Muslim minorities who suffer under Islamic rule. And, if they truly believed that Islam is the answer, why didn't they seek asylum in Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq, Iran, or Pakistan?

the above is a quote.

@pilgrim


@babs787,

We all know that even if the Jews sued for peace, MUSLIMS will NEVER let them be!! That is the fundamental "prophecy" given by Muhammad as part of the tenets of ISLAM!!


Really? You need to give me the origin of Arab-Muslim conflict. And if muslims hate jew to such extent and they aware too, why did some jews accepted Islam during propet's time?

          Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:

                     The last hour would not come unless
                                 
     the Muslims will fight against the Jews  and the Muslims would kill them

      until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say:

  Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him;

                      but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

                                                            ---  [Sahih Muslim Book 041, #6985]

Can there be a smoke without fire? So the issue in Palestine where civilians are being killed for throwing pellets is a sure proof that jews are peaceful



Pretending that you don't understand that Hadith is to play the usual AL-TAQIYYA that is only too characteristic of Islamic reasoning!!

Never mind, I have served you brother lots of verses on Al-taqiyya from your bible, you only need to read and stop pointing fingers at muslims. What goes round, comes around. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Tit for Tat





@davidylan


You forgot that the same hezbollah used rockets with ball bearings on Isreali kindergarten schools? Or is that part of the islamic manipulation of the truth to suit their agenda? You forget the suicide bombers?
You forget that had the weapons been on the other side Isreal would long have ceased to exist?
Oh, I thought you know history very well. Can you please tell me the reason for using rockets on Israel.



What about Saddam who used chemical gases on his own people? The islamic world only seems to notice the sins of the isrealis never theirs! Hypocrites!


1. What of charles Taylor, he is a christian like you. Throughout his tenure as president, unleashed on his people different types of torture like denying them water supply,. light, schooling, education, health care delivery, employment, lesure. To worsen the situation, two Nigerian Journalist had their hands amputated, many were killed. He extended his reign of terror to Siera Leone. Yte he has not been referred as terrorist let alone being convicted. Have you heard anything about him in Hague?


2. An American Timothy Mc Veigh a christian had the city of Oklahoma destroyed with an explosive.

Are ok, or you need more?


Peace.

babs787:

@davidylan

Oh, I thought you know history very well. Can you please tell me the reason for using rockets on Israel.

perhaps you can tell me why ur palestinian "civilians" are busy throwing stones at isrealis. And dont give me the ready made islamic excuse of Isreal occupying Lebanon, Syria occupied Lebanon for more than 20 yrs and hezbollah is not hurling rockets with ball bearings at them!

babs787:

1. What of charles Taylor, he is a christian like you. Throughout his tenure as president, unleashed on his people different types of torture like denying them water supply,. light, schooling, education, health care delivery, employment, lesure. To worsen the situation, two Nigerian Journalist had their hands amputated, many were killed. He extended his reign of terror to Siera Leone. Yte he has not been referred as terrorist let alone being convicted. Have you heard anything about him in Hague?


2. An American Timothy Mc Veigh a christian had the city of Oklahoma destroyed with an explosive.

We have been through this form of circular redundant reasoning before. That a man does not bow down to allah does not automatically mean he is a christian. I'm sure you know what atheists and agnostics mean!

davidylan:

perhaps you can tell me why your palestinian "civilians" are busy throwing stones at isrealis. And don't give me the ready made islamic excuse of Isreal occupying Lebanon, Syria occupied Lebanon for more than 20 years and hezbollah is not hurling rockets with ball bearings at them!

We have been through this form of circular redundant reasoning before. That a man does not bow down to allah does not automatically mean he is a christian. I'm sure you know what atheists and agnostics mean!

I was wondering if they just hand out WAEC to anyone these days.During my time critical thinking was a requirement,what has Nigeria turned into?
If a Yoruba Muslim who having dwelt amongst Christians is supposed to be a little more knowledgeable than their northern counterparts cannot tell us what comes after the alphabet A,what do we expected fron Danladi?
"allah akhbar!"

babs787:

@pilgrim


@babs787,

We all know that even if the Jews sued for peace, MUSLIMS will NEVER let them be!! That is the fundamental "prophecy" given by Muhammad as part of the tenets of ISLAM!!


Really? You need to give me the origin of Arab-Muslim conflict. And if muslims hate jew to such extent and they aware too, why did some jews accepted Islam during propet's time?

           Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:

                      The last hour would not come unless
                                 
      the Muslims will fight against the Jews  and the Muslims would kill them

       until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say:

   Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him;

                       but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

                                                             ---  [Sahih Muslim Book 041, #6985]

Can there be a smoke without fire? So the issue in Palestine where civilians are being killed for throwing pellets is a sure proof that jews are peaceful

What was the 'smoke' that prompted Muhammad's PROPHECY that the last hour would not come UNLESS Muslims KILL JEWS?? Your dishonesty is disgusting!

If it were merely a matter of "retaliation" (which is the picture you've been trying so hard to paint here), what has that got to do with the LAST HOUR in Muhammad's prophecy?? You're only further confirming the bloodthirsty and murderous spirit with which Muhammad went out on his adventures.

The Palestinians are not merely trying to "protect" themselves. Muslims outside Palestine (such as the Iranians) are hell-bent on annihilating the Jews, because we know already that it is part of their islamic belief to bring in the expected Madhi in "the last hour" by way of KILLING Jews everywhere! Palestinian Muslims have only one ideology in killing any Jew; and that is none other than to fulfill Muhammad's "prophecy". Period.

Your denying and circling round this issue is confirmation again that you're a total stranger to truth. And you're further exposing the hypocrisy that is all too characteristic of dishonest folks of your ilk.