TAO11:


Your blindness to truth is willful and self-inflicted.

The accompanying documents which you had attached some days ago clearly describe this metal sculpture of a dwarf as a palace clown and servant.

Yet you dared to associate such dwarf clown and slave represented by this sculpture with the word "royalty".

For God's sake, "royalty" is a word meaning "members of a royal family" --- Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

How on earth, by any stretch of the imagination, did you come to the conclusion that the palace dwarf clown and servant depicted by the sculpture is a member of the Oba's family?

Your desperation to push beads' use to the pre-Ewuare1 era (contrary to well established and strongly held Bini traditions) has led you to the foregoing unavoidable laughable contradiction. How would you get out of this?

In sum, as I have mentioned to you earlier:

(i) The mere fact that the dwarf sculpture depicts the use of two pieces of necklaces is not sufficient as proof that he adorns beads, especially when such conclusion is not entirely clear from the sculpture itself.

(ii) The fact that the sculpture describes a palace clown and servant establishes definitively that he wasn't adorning beads, as beads (in earlier times) are the exclusive preserve of the Oba and members of his family and the chiefs.

(iii) Moreover, I have shown (with images) in my previous comment that a number of some Benin bronzes clearly depict the use of necklaces, other than beads, such as made of leopard's teeth, or made simply of fibers.

(iv) Lastly, your second attachment here is irrelevant because, firstly, the plaque dates to after the post Ewuare1 era (Refer to: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/310752); and secondly, although some of the necklaces and collars shown in the plaque are not entirely clear, the middle figure very clearly depicts the use of a long beaded necklace.

This again somewhat corroborates the Benin tradition that beads' use was introduced into Benin kingdom by Oba Ewuare1.


Cheers!

Again the oba owned dwarfs which makes them royal called them royal servant ,royal slaves but they are royal they are spies for the oba just the way the oba own the bronzes in benin

So anywhere the dwarfs goes in the kingdom wearing is beads anyone who sees him will know automatically he is from the palace

Am still waiting for you to tell me what was on his neck if not bead

Very very soon i will confirm you stupid and will stop debating with you ver soon i say

Since i have to be thinking for you

gregyboy:


What why do they call them “royal guards"

It stated members of royal family meaning not by blood only both the chiefs the dukes families and any body else who stool is royal to the kingdom

Yorubas is this who you bring to debate me ....
Little wonder why benins conqured the yorubas state upto ife...

You need to be literal with English language! So stop being ignorant . Royal Guard doesn't mean being a member of royal bloodline. Instead, Royal Guard is a security is one or people who protect the Royal (monarch's )lineage with his life or their lives. Plainly, a slave is a slave while a freeborn is a freeborn. Royal Guard is a slave to the monarch.

Olu317:


You need to be literal with English language! So stop being ignorant . Royal Guard doesn't mean being a member of royal bloodline. Instead, Royal Guard is a security is one or people who protect the Royal (monarch's )lineage with his life or their lives. Plainly, a slave is a slave while a freeborn is a freeborn. Royal Guard is a slave to the monarch.

Never said they wernt slaves even Joseph was s prisoner and was later favoured by pharaoh ...

Yea the dwarfs were owned by the benin royals and they personal answers to the oba
Dont get me wrong all dwarfs in the kingdom both born by commoners by the obas were under tge custodian of the benin palace some were slaves and some where citizen's or commoners so we never knew if that dwarf was a commoner all we knew that all dwarfs were originally owned by the oba and slaves who were not freeborn could rise to attain it

Am i wrong olu317

gregyboy:



Never said they wernt slaves even Joseph was s prisoner and was later favoured by pharaoh ...

Yea the dwarfs were owned by the benin royals and they personal answers to the oba
Dont get me wrong all dwarfs in the kingdom both born by commoners by the obas were under tge custodian of the benin palace some were slaves and some where citizen's or commoners so we never knew if that dwarf was a commoner all we knew that all dwarfs were originally owned by the oba and slaves who were not freeborn could rise to attain it

Am i wrong olu317

As far as I am concerned, you can defend ypur identity as regard Edoland and I don't doubt the fact that Oba Binu was absolute in authority over his domain in that era, with a totalitarian monarchial system. But let us not mix the identities of royal blood and slave up because :

1. Freeborn is different from a slave though can become a servant.

2. Freeborn can become a slave if being captured by another kingdom which isn't of his/her ancestral home land. And this isn't in contention

3. A dwarf of Oba Binu lineage's (doubt it) can't be a slave nor be under a law which would had made him a royal guard. Though can be a Prince warrior son who may go on expedition or some sort to found a new kingdom e.g Ora in Edo land.

4. There is a difference between royalty and commoners in the ancient time . In fact, certain names are purely restricted within noble and royal bloodline.

5. Yes, there are times that a slave or servant assumes the position of Oyatse in Bini kingdom,which is as a result of war persecution or great exploits in the old Binuland.

6.You need understand that there were two different dynasty that existed in Edoland, which were, Pre and Post 1170AD , according to Binu chronology. Oramia(Oranmiyah) era was actually seen as the era of Oba, which falls within the era of Lost Wax in West Africa.


7. Beads production in Yoruba people had been in Bc Beside because there are prototypes of alloy works,terracotta, Clay etc outside Africa. In fact, similar sculpture art works are found in Near East

Olu317:


As far as I am concerned, you can defend ypur identity as regard Edoland and I don't doubt the fact that Oba Binu was absolute in authority over his domain in that era, with a totalitarian monarchial system. But let us not mix the identities of royal blood and slave up because :

1. Freeborn is different from a slave though can become a servant.

2. Freeborn can become a slave if being captured by another kingdom which isn't of his/her ancestral home land. And this isn't in contention

3. A dwarf of Oba Binu lineage's (doubt it) can't be a slave nor be under a law which would had made him a royal guard. Though can be a Prince warrior son who may go on expedition or some sort to found a new kingdom e.g Ora in Edo land.

4. There is a difference between royalty and commoners in the ancient time . In fact, certain names are purely restricted within noble and royal bloodline.

5. Yes, there are times that a slave or servant assumes the position of Oyatse in Bini kingdom,which is as a result of war persecution or great exploits in the old Binuland.

6.You need understand that there were two different dynasty that existed in Edoland, which were, Pre and Post 1170AD , according to Binu chronology. Oramia(Oranmiyah) era was actually seen as the era of Oba, which falls within the era of Lost Wax in West Africa.


7. Beads production in Yoruba people had been in Bc Beside because there are prototypes of alloy works,terracotta, Clay etc outside Africa. In fact, similar sculpture art works are found in Near East

Please i want to see the exact to this terracotta works most times i get to see claims on tge treccotta artworks eg 12 to 15c like kilode is that what the machine reads or is what tge yoruba claim untikk then the okdest art work with sustainable adequate date 14c and no more the others are claims


I like the fact that you see what i tried to portray to your brother toaf abi sister ....
I just simply drew a logical explanation to why that guy might have been wearing beeds even when it is a known fact in benin history that dwarfs are Royal by law he doubted and i brought out possible reasons too..

Your brother toaf is too cunny he comes with quote from sources and reference's and never post the links to the source like who does that? then when ask he tells me to go read the book or find the link my self...this claims he would present with authority .
The same claim i made that ceremonial sword was made during the ogiso era he doubted even it came from edo site but he expect me to believes is claim becsuse he attach foreign reference....

I have decided not to respond to him again

gregyboy:


Again the oba owned dwarfs which makes them royal called them royal servant ,royal slaves but they are royal they are spies for the oba just the way the oba own the bronzes in benin

So anywhere the dwarfs goes in the kingdom wearing is beads anyone who sees him will know automatically he is from the palace

Am still waiting for you to tell me what was on his neck if not bead

Very very soon i will confirm you stupid and will stop debating with you ver soon i say

Since i have to be thinking for you

The fact that the king owned the dwarf who (according to the accompanying documents you attached) served as a palace clown and errand servant makes the dwarf his slaves and not a member of his family.


Moreover, there is NO source in any language which gives the definition of "royalty" as:

A person whom the king owns as his servant or clown.

No, the definition of "royalty", whether by Merriam-Webster or by the dictionary which you yourself attached, remains:

A person who is a MEMBER of the king's FAMILY.


So, saying that the dwarf wore a beaded necklace to wherever he goes is to commit a logical fallacy known in argumentation as circular reasoning or begging the question.

In other words, you do not include the conclusion which you are expected to prove as an assumption in your premise.


Regarding your waiting:

The dictates of analytical logic does not demand, in any way, shape, or form (in this context) that, I particularly point out the nature of the necklace material adorned by the dwarf, provided I demonstrate (in other ways) that he certainly did not adorn a beaded necklace.


In contrast, it is you who are obliged to demonstrate, with evidence, that the dwarf was adorning a beaded necklace.

And so far, I have demonstrated from the "status" of the dwarf (i.e., a palace clown and errand servant who, thus obviously, was NOT A MEMBER OF THE KING'S FAMILY --- that is, NOT A "ROYALTY" ); and the dating of the artefact itself (i.e., dating to the 1300s --- a century earlier than the period admitted in Benin tradition as relating to the introduction of beads' use in Benin kingdom by Ewuare1) that the dwarf certainly was not adorning a bead.

And to bolster and corroborate my argument, I have demonstrated with pictorial evidence that certain Benin sculptures ardon necklaces made of materials other than beads, such as leopard's teeth and mere fibre.

[quote author=TAO11 post=81610382]

The fact that the king owned the dwarf who (according to the accompanying documents you attached) served as a palace clown and errand servant makes the dwarf his slaves and not a member of his family.


Moreover, there is NO source in any language which gives the definition of "royalty" as:

[/i]A person whom the king owns as his servant or clown.[/i]

No, the definition of "royalty", whether by Merriam-Webster or by the dictionary which you yourself attached, remains:

A person who is a MEMBER of the king's FAMILY.


So, saying that the dwarf wore a beaded necklace to wherever he goes is to commit a logical fallacy known in argumentation as circular reasoning or begging the question.

In other words, you do not include the conclusion which you are expected to prove as an assumption in your premise.


Regarding your waiting:

The dictates of analytical logic does not demand, in any way, shape, or form (in this context) that, I particularly point out the nature of the necklace material adorned by the dwarf, provided I demonstrate (in other ways) that he certainly did not adorn a beaded necklace.


In contrast, it is you who are obliged to demonstrate, with evidence, that the dwarf was adorning a beaded necklace.

And so far, I have demonstrated from the "status" of the dwarf (i.e., a palace clown and errand servant who, thus obviously, was NOT A MEMBER OF THE KING'S FAMILY --- that is, NOT A "ROYALTY" ); and the dating of the artefact itself (i.e., dating to the 1300s --- a century earlier than the period admitted in Benin tradition as relating to the introduction of beads' use in Benin kingdom by Ewuare1) that the dwarf certainly was not adorning a bead.

And to bolster and corroborate my argument, I have demonstrated with pictorial evidence that certain Benin sculptures ardon necklaces made of materials other than beads, such as leopard's teeth



You showed a sculpture of the 15c showing leopards teeth when at the 15c bead were seeing in all sculpture too


Am done you won biko...

gregyboy:


What why do they call them “royal guards"

It stated members of royal family meaning not by blood only both the chiefs the dukes families and any body else who stool is royal to the kingdom

Yorubas is this who you bring to debate me ....
Little wonder why benins conqured the yorubas state upto ife...

Did you really say that "royal guards" means that the guards themselves are royalty yet guards?

Wow! You must be the dumbest creature ever liveth.

But to educate your willfully ignorant ass, a "royal guard" is a "royal guard" not because the guard himself (or herself) is the "royalty" (which obviously is a contradiction of terms); but because the guard is "responsible for the protection of a royal person, such as the emperor or empress or king, or queen, or prince or princess".

Refer to "Royal guard" - Wikipedia.

It is in the same sense that the "Queen's Guard" is so called not because the guard himself (or herself) is the Queen, but because they are responsible for guarding the Queen and her palace.

Smh!

Moreover, it is pitiable that you really need me to explain the concept of "members of the family" to you.

Wow! I must say that my child may as well take over the keyboard now, since it has gotten to this point.

gregyboy:
You showed a sculpture of the 15c showing leopards teeth when at the 15c bead were seeing in all sculpture too


Am done you won biko...

That's exactly my point!

That is, even in the 15th century when beads were already in use, the use of other forms of necklaces is noticeable, let alone in the 1300s when beads were not yet in use according to Benin traditions.

And of course I already knew that I slaughtered, squashed, and erased you. You didn't have to admit the obvious.

It is palpably perceptible even to the deaf and blind that you're not a match. I am light years beyond your feather-weight league.

gregyboy:



(1) dont care if you admitt youre wrong


A possible why the dwarfs who were palace slaves or clown as you say got to wore royal beads...is

It could be that out of the royal house a dwarf was born would that makes him a slave or commmoner automatically because he he was born a dwarf and they neglect is royal lineage ....we also know in history people were favour beyond thier status because of their great deeds what you said could be true no doubt that he was slave from another tribe and he taking to the palace as a clown but what if later on this said slave found favour in the eyes of the oba
and he acknowledged him for his great deed and bestow him a bead there are many stories in benin that the oba acknowledged commoners and even slaves with beeds in benin.....

Does it make sense....

(1) Please point out where I noted that I was wrong, as well as the topic about which I noted that I was wrong. You may also include the year.

I know you had to utter that lie just to help yourself sleep well and minimize the tears.

(2) Your long boring "it could be that" guesswork is an utter nonsense which is dead on arrival.

This simple fact which evaporates this utter rubbish is the fact that the dwarf was said in the accompanying document to be a palace owned clown and errand servant.

Such information does not describe a child born to the king or any member of the royal family for that matter, not even a chief.

What remains standing tall in the final analysis, therefore, is the Benin tradition which states that the use of beads was introduced into Benin kingdom by Oba Ewuare1 in the 1400s.

gregyboy:


Hmm....lol....my friend can you come with logical prove...i told ur broda who is hiding under a female account that links are irrwlevant but raw proves ...ao come out with raw fact then i will believe you anyone can claim anything i bet you know that

we brought civilization to you people through Benin.. Benin belong to ife....ile ibinu..Oranmiyan could not tame the beast so he left but left behind IDA Oranmiyan as symbol of his authority .. We are the light to you forest mongrel.. We brought clothing culture beads glass making iron/ metal crafting to you people and religion .. you should be grateful..

gregyboy:


Please i want to see the exact to this terracotta works most times i get to see claims on tge treccotta artworks eg 12 to 15c like kilode is that what the machine reads or is what tge yoruba claim untikk then the okdest art work with sustainable adequate date 14c and no more the others are claims


I like the fact that you see what i tried to portray to your brother toaf abi sister ....
I just simply drew a logical explanation to why that guy might have been wearing beeds even when it is a known fact in benin history that dwarfs are Royal by law he doubted and i brought out possible reasons too..

Your brother toaf is too cunny he comes with quote from sources and reference's and never post the links to the source like who does that? then when ask he tells me to go read the book or find the link my self...this claims he would present with authority .
The same claim i made that ceremonial sword was made during the ogiso era he doubted even it came from edo site but he expect me to believes is claim becsuse he attach foreign reference....

I have decided not to respond to him again

Logical reasoning is far from what's at stake here because evidence is the parameter to substantiate your opinion. As I had mentioned earlier, kindly do verify as regard the Necklace rosette etc in comparison with Near East work so that you can appreciate Yorubas ancestors craftsmanship in the antiquity. Take time to verify Near East visual Art , jewelry, beads , rossete in , ‘ The Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin 1984', and view as follows:

1. Necklace with pendants. Gold. Southern Meso- potamia, ca. 19th-18th century B.C. L. 1615/16 in. (43 cm.). Fletcher Fund, 1947 (47.la-h)

Necklace with Bes head and figured plaques. Gold Iran, Achaemenid period, ca. 5th-4th century B.C. H. 19/16 in. (4 cm.), L. 141/8 in. (35.9 cm.). Dodge Fund, 1965 (65.169)

And do compare with:

1.Oonis adornment,

2. Yoruba's terracotta, alloy copper, ceramic etc works

3.Depiction of bird on Yorubas Kings crown

Perhaps these renowned people's work will aid you:

Eluyemi 1986
Omotoso Eluyemi, “Technology of Ife Glass Beads: Excavations at Igbo-Olokun, Ile-Ife, Nigeria,” in The Social and Economic Contexts of Technological Change, The World Archaeological Congress, September 1–7, 1986, London: Allen and Unwin, 1986.

Euba 1982
Akin Euba, “Of Blue and Red Beads: The Role of Ife in the West African Trade in Kori Beads,” Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, December 1981–June 1982, 1982, pp. 109–127.

Eyo 1974
Ekpo Eyo, “Odo Ogbe Street and Lafogido: Contrasting Archaeological Sites in Ile-Ife, Western Nigeria,” West African Journal of Archaeology, v. 4, 1974, pp. 99–109.

Fagg 1972
Angela Fagg, “A Preliminary Report on an Occupation Site in the Nok Valley, Nigeria: Samun Dukiwa,” West African Journal of Archaeology, v. 2, 1972, pp. 75–79.

Freestone 2006
Ian C. Freestone, “An Indigenous Technology? A Commentary on Lankton et al., ‘Early Primary Glass Production in Southern Nigeria,” Journal of African Archaeology, v. 4, no. 1, 2006, pp. 139–141.

Frobenius 1913 Leo Frobenius, The Voice of Africa, v. 2, London: Hutchinson & Co., 1913.

Garlake 1974
Peter Garlake, “Excavation at Obalara’s Land, Ife: Interim Report,” West African Journal of Archaeology, v. 4, 1974, pp. 111–148.


Ige 2009 O. Akin Ige, “Ancient Glassmaking in Ile-Ife, Southwestern Nigeria,” paper presented at the 18th Congress of the Association Internationale pour l’Histoire du Verre, T hessaloniki, September 15–28, 2009.

TAO11:


That's exactly my point!

That is, even in the 15th century when beads were already in use, the use of other forms of necklaces is noticeable, let alone in the 1300s when beads were not yet in use according to Benin traditions.

And of course I already knew that I slaughtered, squashed, and erased you. You didn't have to admit the obvious.

It is palpably perceptible even to the deaf and blind that you're not a match. I am light years beyond your feather-weight league.

You see you keep on beliwving on people claims when it suit you ... Hahaa cunny man ....

I disproved the works of my kingsmen if there is need to

gregyboy:


You see you keep on beliwving on people claims when it suit you ... Hahaa cunny man ....

I disproved the works of my kingsmen if there is need to

Except that you have not been able to disprove anything.

TAO11:


Except that you have not been able to disprove anything.

Haha i told you present me pictures showing the centres of ife art work production af ife


I also told you to provide ife sculpture dating to the 12c with stamp approval or from a reliable foreign source not just mere quote and references

Until then

gregyboy:



Haha i told you present me pictures showing the centres of ife art work production af ife


I also told you to provide ife sculpture dating to the 12c with stamp approval or from a reliable foreign source not just mere quote and references

Until then

No you didnt!

Rather, it was a claim that you yourself made (on another thread though) without any evidence, proof, or reason --- saying the following words (with some corrections to your typos):

"Ife has no centre of its artwork origination. The sculptor who made the Ife artworks can't be traced. There is no no evidence that the ife art works were made in life."

Refer here for the thread to see your claims (and not requests or questions) as well as the exchange that followed:

https://www.nairaland.com/5314103/benins-first-educated-nigerians-dr/5#81608335


It becomes clear, therefore, that it is you who have to prove your own claims.

My bit is only to critique whatever you would produce as "proof" thereby exposing you for the fraud that you are.

Also, a picture by itself doesn't prove jack. Just as the pictures of a building doesn't prove that you own the building, whether the picture contains a forgery of your name/signature or it contains nothing.

To be considered reliable and trustworthy, an expert, scholarly, academic statement (duly referenced and traceable to the source) is still required to make the point.

What stands, therefore, in the final analysis is that I was able to adduce an expert, scholarly, academic dating results (duly referenced and traceable) showing that not only are there Ife artworks dated by the thermoluminescence technique to the 1200s, but that there are actually a couple of Ife artworks that have been dated using same dating technique to the 1100s and to the 1000s.

I have demonstrated this convincingly in the thread found here: https://www.nairaland.com/5314103/benins-first-educated-nigerians-dr/5#81608335

This, I showed convincingly that a number of Ife artefacts have been dated by thermoluminescence dating to not just the 1200s, but also to the 1100s and to the 1000s.

I Will be leaving this page for now for time sake and promise to return or replied mention and also gst to read all the comment fdom this page

It shouldn't be said i ran i know tao11 or what do they call him will take chances and even be happy to say i was humbly Defeated by him and i i had to quit....

But untill then tao11 provide me with not just quote or claims from international sources with references but artefact to show as proves
As backing and also pictures showinvg the centre of craft casting in ife

Yes the yoruba wore beeds since God knowns when yea all source claim so but no one has given or showed this bead that existed in the 10c they claim they discovered i need pictures not quote...quote and reference are gotten from claims which maybe wrong


Untill then see you all months from now

gregyboy:
I Will be leaving this page for now for time sake and promise to return or replied mention and also gst to read all the comment fdom this page

It shouldn't be said i ran i know tao11 or what do they call him will take chances and even be happy to say i was humbly Defeated by him and i i had to quit....

But until then tao11 provide me with not just quote or claims from international sources with references but artefact to show as proves As backing

and also pictures showinvg the centre of craft casting in ife

Yes the yoruba wore beeds since God knowns when yea all source claim so but no one has given or showed this bead that existed in the 10c they claim they discovered i need pictures not quote...quote and reference are gotten from claims which maybe wrong


Untill then see you all months from now

Of course it is your usual style to run away whenever you run out of lies to tell and whenever you've been exposed and made to weep bitterly in secret.

You've run away as usual because I squeezed you so hard and exposed you so badly that no one could be decieved into believing even one of your numerous lies.

You've run away as usual because you couldn't refute or withstand any of the following historical facts:

(i) The Ooni of Ife was suzerain, imperial, and divine over Benin kingdom.

(ii) Ife introduced metal casting techniques into Benin kingdom.

(iii) The USE of beads wasn't introduced into Benin kingdom until during the reign of Ewuare1 in the 1400s

(iv) Ife had been flourishing as a center of beads PRODUCTION since as early as the 1100s (and perhaps earlier).

(v) Ife artworks predates the earliest extant Benin artworks by a minimum of 300 years.


Oh ye runaway gregyboy, you failed woefully to even continue with engaging several of my replies even before you finally fled. Omg, you fled.

Or did you concede those also just as you confessed that you've been lying about your claim that Benin artwork date to the 1200s?


Also you failed completely and miserably to substantiate even one of your empty claims, from (a) to (f) (including the additional ones).

Nay, you ran away as an inferiority ridden lying coward that you demonstrably are.


Moreover, regarding pictures:

Note again that a picture by itself doesn't prove jack. Just as the picture of a building doesn't prove that you own the building, whether the picture contains a forgery of your name/signature or it contains nothing.

To be considered reliable and trustworthy, an expert, scholarly, academic statement (duly referenced and traceable to the source) is still required to make the point.

What stands, therefore, in the final analysis is that I was able to adduce an expert, scholarly, academic dating results (duly referenced and traceable) showing that not only are there Ife artworks dated by the thermoluminescence technique to the 1200s, but that there are actually a couple of Ife artworks that have been dated using same dating technique to the 1100s and the to 1000s.

I have demonstrated this convincingly in the following thread: https://www.nairaland.com/5314103/benins-first-educated-nigerians-dr/5#81608335


Furthermore, regarding your so-called center of artwork production in Ife, it should be mentioned again that you are responsible for proving your own claim.

You had made the claim (among other claims), and as such it is you who should prove your own claim.

Your own words which you uttered when you made the claim (and not a request) are as follows (with some corrections to your typos):

"Ife has no centre of its artwork origination. The sculptor who made the Ife artworks can't be traced. There is no no evidence that the Ife art works were made in Ife."

It is clear and obvious to every sane and stable mind that this is your claim, not your question nor request, nor is it my claim. The actual thread post is found here:

https://www.nairaland.com/5314103/benins-first-educated-nigerians-dr/5#81608335

In sum, it is you (not I) who must prove your own claims. My bit is only to critique whatever you would produce as "proof" thereby exposing you for the fraud that you are.


Having demonstrated the lameness of your persistent demand for pictures, I proceed now to reminding you (with evidence) of the fact that the Yoruba people of Ife have, in fact, been producing beads in Ile-Ife since as early as the 12th century.

In other words, since as early as the 1100s; that is, some 300 years before the Binis would be exposed, by Ewuare1, to the use of beads (not even its production).

Refer here for the paper entitled "Glass Beads from Igbo-Olokun, Ile-Ife: Chemical Composition, Production, and Regional Interaction":

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281149310_Glass_Beads_from_Igbo-Olokun_Ile-Ife_Chemical_Composition_Production_and_Regional_Interaction


This academic and scholarly paper was presented at an annual conference of the prestigious "Society for American Archaeology", and it states very clearly and emphatically in the Abstract, and I quote, that:

"The site of Igbo Olokun in the city of Ife, in southwestern Nigeria has been identified as a primary glass and glass beads production center dating to the "Classic" period (12th - 15th c.)"


The rest of the paper is filled with the report of the archaeological excavation, the chemical analysis of the glass crucible and beads found at the beads production center, among several other details and analysis.

Once again you got busted as always!

Yoruba history didn't start with coming of the European .... When my forefathers were making history , where were your ancestors they were still covering their nasty hairy back side with leaves and raffia palm .. Our history was written centuries before the coming of the European..by great scholars of African , Ahmed baba greatest scholar of Timbuktu/ Songhai also Moroccan Ibn battuta world traveler and historian...

@ Obalufon, greeting to you.Please I need a favour from you, as regard a picture of Opa Ogun's picture at Oja Oba axis in uleife, if you wouldn't mind. Therefore,it will do me more good to have your active email.


Regard as always.

TAO11:


Of course it is your usual style to run away whenever you run out of lies to tell and whenever you've been exposed and made to weep bitterly in secret.

You've run away as usual because I squeezed you so hard and exposed you so badly that no one could be decieved into believing even one of your numerous lies.

You've run away as usual because you couldn't refute or withstand any of the following historical facts:

(i) The Ooni of Ife was suzerain, imperial, and divine over Benin kingdom.

(ii) Ife introduced metal casting techniques into Benin kingdom.

(iii) The use of beads wasn't introduced into Benin kingdom until during the reign of Ewuare1 in the 1400s

(iv) Ife had been flourishing as a center of beads production since as early as the 1100s (and perhaps earlier).

(v) Ife artworks predates the earliest extant Benin artworks by a minimum of 300 years.


Oh ye runaway gregyboy, you failed woefully to even continue with engaging several of my replies. You fled.

Or did you concede those also just as you confessed that you've been lying about your claim that Benin artwork date to the 1200s?


Also you failed completely and miserably to substantiate even one of your empty claims, from (a) to (f) (including the additional ones).

Nay, you ran away as an inferiority ridden lying coward that you demonstrably are.


Moreover, regarding pictures:

Note again that a picture by itself doesn't prove jack. Just as the picture of a building doesn't prove that you own the building, whether the picture contains a forgery of your name/signature or it contains nothing.

To be considered reliable and trustworthy, an expert, scholarly, academic statement (duly referenced and traceable to the source) is still required to make the point.

What stands, therefore, in the final analysis is that I was able to adduce an expert, scholarly, academic dating results (duly referenced and traceable) showing that not only are there Ife artworks dated by the thermoluminescence technique to the 1200s, but that there are actually a couple of Ife artworks that have been dated using same dating technique to the 1100s and the to 1000s.

I have demonstrated this convincingly in the following thread: https://www.nairaland.com/5314103/benins-first-educated-nigerians-dr/5#81608335


Furthermore, regarding your so-called center of artwork production in Ife, it should be mentioned again that you are responsible for proving your own claim.

You had made the claim (among other claims), and as such it is you who should prove your own claim.

Your own words which you uttered when you made the claim (and not a request) are as follows (with some corrections to your typos):

"Ife has no centre of its artwork origination. The sculptor who made the Ife artworks can't be traced. There is no no evidence that the Ife art works were made in Ife."

It is clear and obvious to every sane and stable mind that this is your claim, not your question nor request, nor is it my claim. The actual thread post is found here:

https://www.nairaland.com/5314103/benins-first-educated-nigerians-dr/5#81608335

In sum, it is you (not I) who must prove your own claims. My bit is only to critique whatever you would produce as "proof" thereby exposing you for the fraud that you are.


Having demonstrated the lameness of your persistent demand for pictures, I proceed now to reminding you (with evidence) of the fact that the Yoruba people of Ife have, in fact, been producing beads in Ile-Ife since as early as the 12th century.

In other words, since as early as the 1100s; that is, some 300 years before the Binis would be exposed, by Ewuare1, to the use of beads (not even its production).

Refer here for the paper entitled "Glass Beads from Igbo-Olokun, Ile-Ife: Chemical Composition, Production, and Regional Interaction":

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281149310_Glass_Beads_from_Igbo-Olokun_Ile-Ife_Chemical_Composition_Production_and_Regional_Interaction


This academic and scholarly paper was presented at an annual conference of the prestigious "Society for American Archaeology", and it states very clearly and emphatically in the Abstract, and I quote, that:

"The site of Igbo Olokun in the city of Ife, in southwestern Nigeria has been identified as a primary glass and glass beads production center dating to the "Classic" period (12th - 15th c.)"


The rest of the paper is filled with the report of the archaeological excavation, the chemical analysis of the glass crucible and beads found at the beads production center, among several other details and analysis.

Once again you got busted as always!

Glass beads making technology is beyond forest mongrel..Melting of precious silion stone to form different ornaments Awo ,saucer bowl , bracelets bangles and beading. .. Coral beads was introduced to Benin by the Portuguese which is totally different from Glass beads , Coral is plant is harvest at the bottom of The seas... Which is also known to Yoruba before the coming of the Europeans..Through Olokun and Aje.the Sea people.. The first monetary cowery was introduced by them , -Cowry shell is mine at the bottom of the Sea later -they were able to raise and breed cowry Snail for their shell in hinterland which was a top secret then by the Awo... It was called Ogun owo then because you need dead body for the production and its breeding also for the harvest at the bottom of the sea ..the cowry snail feed on dead body and attract more to human dead body

TAO11:


Of course it is your usual style to run away whenever you run out of lies to tell and whenever you've been exposed and made to weep bitterly in secret.

You've run away as usual because I squeezed you so hard and exposed you so badly that no one could be decieved into believing even one of your numerous lies.

You've run away as usual because you couldn't refute or withstand any of the following historical facts:

(i) The Ooni of Ife was suzerain, imperial, and divine over Benin kingdom.

(ii) Ife introduced metal casting techniques into Benin kingdom.

(iii) The USE of beads wasn't introduced into Benin kingdom until during the reign of Ewuare1 in the 1400s

(iv) Ife had been flourishing as a center of beads PRODUCTION since as early as the 1100s (and perhaps earlier).

(v) Ife artworks predates the earliest extant Benin artworks by a minimum of 300 years.


Oh ye runaway gregyboy, you failed woefully to even continue with engaging several of my replies even before you finally fled. Omg, you fled.

Or did you concede those also just as you confessed that you've been lying about your claim that Benin artwork date to the 1200s?


Also you failed completely and miserably to substantiate even one of your empty claims, from (a) to (f) (including the additional ones).

Nay, you ran away as an inferiority ridden lying coward that you demonstrably are.


Moreover, regarding pictures:

Note again that a picture by itself doesn't prove jack. Just as the picture of a building doesn't prove that you own the building, whether the picture contains a forgery of your name/signature or it contains nothing.

To be considered reliable and trustworthy, an expert, scholarly, academic statement (duly referenced and traceable to the source) is still required to make the point.

What stands, therefore, in the final analysis is that I was able to adduce an expert, scholarly, academic dating results (duly referenced and traceable) showing that not only are there Ife artworks dated by the thermoluminescence technique to the 1200s, but that there are actually a couple of Ife artworks that have been dated using same dating technique to the 1100s and the to 1000s.

I have demonstrated this convincingly in the following thread: https://www.nairaland.com/5314103/benins-first-educated-nigerians-dr/5#81608335


Furthermore, regarding your so-called center of artwork production in Ife, it should be mentioned again that you are responsible for proving your own claim.

You had made the claim (among other claims), and as such it is you who should prove your own claim.

Your own words which you uttered when you made the claim (and not a request) are as follows (with some corrections to your typos):

"Ife has no centre of its artwork origination. The sculptor who made the Ife artworks can't be traced. There is no no evidence that the Ife art works were made in Ife."

It is clear and obvious to every sane and stable mind that this is your claim, not your question nor request, nor is it my claim. The actual thread post is found here:

https://www.nairaland.com/5314103/benins-first-educated-nigerians-dr/5#81608335

In sum, it is you (not I) who must prove your own claims. My bit is only to critique whatever you would produce as "proof" thereby exposing you for the fraud that you are.


Having demonstrated the lameness of your persistent demand for pictures, I proceed now to reminding you (with evidence) of the fact that the Yoruba people of Ife have, in fact, been producing beads in Ile-Ife since as early as the 12th century.

In other words, since as early as the 1100s; that is, some 300 years before the Binis would be exposed, by Ewuare1, to the use of beads (not even its production).

Refer here for the paper entitled "Glass Beads from Igbo-Olokun, Ile-Ife: Chemical Composition, Production, and Regional Interaction":

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281149310_Glass_Beads_from_Igbo-Olokun_Ile-Ife_Chemical_Composition_Production_and_Regional_Interaction


This academic and scholarly paper was presented at an annual conference of the prestigious "Society for American Archaeology", and it states very clearly and emphatically in the Abstract, and I quote, that:

"The site of Igbo Olokun in the city of Ife, in southwestern Nigeria has been identified as a primary glass and glass beads production center dating to the "Classic" period (12th - 15th c.)"


The rest of the paper is filled with the report of the archaeological excavation, the chemical analysis of the glass crucible and beads found at the beads production center, among several other details and analysis.

Once again you got busted as always!

Aiye rẹ a ladun

Olu317:
@ Obalufon, greeting to you.Please I need a favour from you, as regard a picture of Opa Ogun's picture at Oja Oba axis in uleife, if you wouldn't mind. Therefore,it will do me more good to have your active email.


Regard as always.

I am presently in Lagos .I promise to take the picture

Obalufon:
I am presently in Lagos .I promise to take the picture

Oh oh I see. Thank you very much for your tireless effort,even if it's inconvenient.

Regard,

Olu

gwinaB:


I think they call it guarani

Guarani is native America language spoken in Paraguay

Mraphel:

Oduduwa is a Yoruba Oba..he wasn't banished from anywhere. A criminal cannot become an Oba in ife.

Oduduwa was 1000 years before ORANMIYAN was born.

Edo people lied to you.

You're right but 1000 years is a stretch. I'll say between 150 and 200 years. Archaeologist and historians have put the timeline based on certain artifacts and certain other details for oduduwa and oranmiyan to be between circa 1000-1200 AD