@ alethea. . .so, according to the twisted christian apologetic bullcrap you just typed up there, this is all like a movie script preplanned and preconceived by your all knowing god. from creating the devil, knowing damn well he's going to rebel against his despotic azz and in turn be the cause of all of humanity's problems, to the unnecessary wiping of the worlds population with a flood (which still didn't eliminate evil), to the rigors of sending his son/himself to go through some sick and twisted ritual of torture and death and blood sacrifice (which still didn't do jack in the elimination of evil)

If there really existed the mythical tree of knowledge in the garden of eden or a mythical angel called lucifer and god knew of the consequences of eating from the tree or creating this devil in the first place, he damn sure knew of evil and he damn sure could have prevented it. AND, if he IS omniscient he knew what was going to become of the world in the future - a whole lot of evil. But what do you expect from a twisted and sick minded egotistical, deceiving, bloodthirsty, unforgiving, jealous, chauvinistic god.

[center][/center]

God Wannabe

[img width=500 height=500]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/20081114.gif[/img]

@Mudley: lay aside your presuppositions for once and actually read what I wrote or better yet, go read the Bible. All I got from your two paragraphs above was an emotional argument based on your own notions of how God ought to act.

God is not obliged to act according to Mudley's or Epicurus' expectations. He acts according to His purposes.

P.S. Have you taken time to examine the manuscript evidence for the Bible like I challenged you on the other thread? And if what I wrote above is "twisted apologetic bullcrap". Then explain to me the genealogy of Genesis 5. I daresay you cannot and will only retreat into your usual bombast.

1 Co 1:18-25 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

From Jenwitemi:

Another point most people forget is that, to be a God, you don't really have to be omniscient or unable to make mistakes at the things you do. All that is needed is to possess enough knowledge to boss your next man to such an extent that he will see and think you as a deity big enough to worship. Or to create a reality like this, which is really not a proof of perfection and omniscience, but just a proof of big enough intelligence at work.

It is just that, due to man's ignorance, we believe that only a perfect entity can create a universe like this. NOT! Even the faultiest of beings or entities can do it with the possession of the right technological knowhow. Anyway, the bible clearly showed and stated that the bible God can be a bumbling eediot from time to time. A lot of us have read the bible and know this to be true.

Let me buttress this with something extracted from a book I read sometime ago. God wants you dead by Sean Hastings and Paul Rosberg.

Why should it be automatic that, just because a higher being created the universe, that you should worship him? OK, so you are told that GOD is bigger, more powerful, and more knowledgeable. But there are people right here on Earth that are bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter than you. You don't automatically worship them. You don't consider yourself to be obligated to do their bidding, and to serve their interests. Why should a god or GOD be any different?
Why would anyone ever assume that GOD would want you to do everything he said? It’s all supposed to be about free will right? GOD would want you to use that brain he put in your head. He would want you to make your own mistakes and learn from them. Maybe when you do bad things, it really does make the baby Jesus cry. But he is probably crying more about the people who always do what they are told without question. It is
this blind obedience without thought that causes most of the horrible shit that happens in the world.
If GOD exists, he doesn't want you to worship him. He is confident enough in his omnipotence not to need that kind of ego boost. He is certainly going to be pissed off if you don’tthink for yourself and choose to have someone else tell you what to do. He gave you that brain and he wants you to use it!
And if you are one of those people that have a need to tell other people what they can and cannot do, stop it! Don’t try to prevent other people from exercising the Free Will GOD gave them, he would want them to come to the right decisions because they figure it out for themselves, not because you prevented them from doing the things that you think are wrong. Find a better place to get your self-esteem from than controlling others.


If it's yahweh we're talking about, it will be highl delusional and ignorant for anyone not to see this guy's goofs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqwkX0XnzqU&feature=related

aletheia:

God is not obliged to act according to Mudley's or Epicurus' expectations.

uh huh? and you expect me to buy hook line and stinker the idea of a biased god obliged to act according to the expectations/depiction of some anonymous ancient illiterate jewish nomads? sorry i don't condone savagery

ilosiwaju:

From Jenwitemi:
Let me buttress this with something extracted from a book I read sometime ago. God wants you dead by Sean Hastings and Paul Rosberg.

Why should it be automatic that, just because a higher being created the universe, that you should worship him? OK, so you are told that GOD is bigger, more powerful, and more knowledgeable. But there are people right here on Earth that are bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter than you. You don't automatically worship them. You don't consider yourself to be obligated to do their bidding, and to serve their interests. Why should a god or GOD be any different?
Why would anyone ever assume that GOD would want you to do everything he said? It’s all supposed to be about free will right? GOD would want you to use that brain he put in your head. He would want you to make your own mistakes and learn from them. Maybe when you do bad things, it really does make the baby Jesus cry. But he is probably crying more about the people who always do what they are told without question. It is
this blind obedience without thought that causes most of the horrible poo that happens in the world.
If GOD exists, he doesn't want you to worship him. He is confident enough in his omnipotence not to need that kind of ego boost. He is certainly going to be pissed off if you don’tthink for yourself and choose to have someone else tell you what to do. He gave you that brain and he wants you to use it!
And if you are one of those people that have a need to tell other people what they can and cannot do, stop it! Don’t try to prevent other people from exercising the Free Will GOD gave them, he would want them to come to the right decisions because they figure it out for themselves, not because you prevented them from doing the things that you think are wrong. Find a better place to get your self-esteem from than controlling others.


If it's yahweh we're talking about, it will be highl delusional and ignorant for anyone not to see this guy's goofs.

it's pretty evident the god of the bible was modeled after bronze age middle eastern tyrants

Mudley313:

uh huh? and you expect me to buy hook link and stinker the idea of a biased god obliged to act according to the expectations/depiction of some anonymous ancient illiterate jewish nomads? sorry i don't condone savagery

it's pretty evident the god of the bible was modeled after bronze age middle eastern tyrants

"anonymous ancient illiterate jewish nomads"? Empty meaningless words. Just as Shakespeare wrote: ". . .a tale told by an idi*t- -- full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Yet a cursory reading of Wikipedia would show you that the people of the Ancient Middle East had highly developed cultures with lots of written materials that are still being unearthed by archaelogists.

Smh @ poor muddled Mudley. Ever so predictable. Didn't I say that lacking answers, you would retreat into your usual bombast?

Or are you simply too intellectually lazy to follow the leads that have been given you?

aletheia:

@Mudley: lay aside your presuppositions for once and actually read what I wrote or better yet, go read the Bible. All I got from your two paragraphs above was an emotional argument based on your own notions of how God ought to act.

God is not obliged to act according to Mudley's or Epicurus' expectations. He acts according to His purposes.

P.S. Have you taken time to examine the manuscript evidence for the Bible like I challenged you on the other thread? And if what I wrote above is "twisted apologetic bullcrap". Then explain to me the genealogy of Genesis 5. I daresay you cannot and will only retreat into your usual bombast.

aletheia:

"anonymous ancient illiterate jewish nomads"? Empty meaningless words. Just as Shakespeare wrote: ". . .a tale told by an idi*t- -- full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Yet a cursory reading of Wikipedia would show you that the people of the Ancient Middle East had highly developed cultures with lots of written materials that are still being unearthed by archaelogists.

Smh @ poor muddled Mudley. Ever so predictable. Didn't I say that lacking answers, you would retreat into your usual bombast?

Or are you simply too intellectually lazy to follow the leads that have been given you?

you're the one here retreating into unnecessary abusive jabs and bombast in the guise of being an intellectual wanna-be. i don't need wikipedia to know that most of the writers of the bible are anonymous and most of the bible stories were actually passed through word of mouth before being penned down generations later. it's clearly evident from the atrocity riddled conduct of your god, especially in the old testament, that he/she/it was the invention of a people, of lesser understanding of the world around them, fraught with savagery and barbarity. so i reiterate, "the atrocious idea of your savage jewish god was concocted by ancient illiterate jewish nomads". he/she/it (your imaginary god) actually "acted according to their expectations" causing utter mayhem, unrivaled by the devil himself, in the cause of showing favoritism to these self proclaimed chosen people. hiding under the guise of a smartass and quoting all the shakespeare you know don't make you any less retarded for believing in such a savage, biased and vain glorious entity that is the bible god


we can keep it civil by sticking to the issues or throw decorum to the wind by going the personal attack route

^^^ The above seems to be (derived from?) a form of open theism. The problem is the difficulty of squaring it with God's foreknowledge and omniscience as understood.