This was perhaps the smartest invention by early man.

The sharp, greedy ones among them simply decided to categorize the most pleasurable, carefree human activities as ''sin'' in order to benefit themselves.

The process was remarkably simple:


Create a montage of powerful supernatural figures, from the bible's ''God'' to its ''Isiaiah'', and ''Jesus''.

Claim oversight by these entities of human behaviour.

Claim especial access to those beings, as bishops, prophets, priests, popes, and pastors.

Create a set of ''commandments'' supposedly emanating from these supernatural entities. Commandments they know will be nigh-on impossible for humans to follow without cracking up.

Call the flouting of those commandments ''sin''.

Threaten non-compliers with the most vicious reprisals - ex-communication, hell-fire, eternal damnation.

End result - Mass Conformity leading to Top $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for the clergy.

Sin.

What a cunning, crafty, highly profitable invention. 

You gat it, Rossike. Religion is the greatest con ever invented by man to manipulate, control and extort his fellow man. It is truly a perpetual money-spinning machine.

Jenwitemi said:

You gat it, Rossike. Religion is the greatest con ever invented by man to manipulate, control and extort his fellow man. It is truly a perpetual money-spinning machine.

Honestly. I'm seriously thinking of starting my own church, so I can get rich like these flashily dressed pastors running around the place in their Bentleys and private jets. If people are gonna be so dense as to accept any old crap I come out with, who cares?  Me I'm tired of all this penny pinching. I need real mullah now biko. 

Would love to be in your wagon!

You better act fast, my friend, before people start getting less dense in the head. There are signs of that happening already.

ROSSIKE:

Jenwitemi said:

Honestly. I'm seriously thinking of starting my own church, so I can get rich like these flashily dressed pastors running around the place in their Bentleys and private jets. If people are gonna be so dense as to accept any old crap I come out with, who cares? Me I'm tired of all this penny pinching. I need real mullah now biko.

Jenwitemi and Kay, are you guys game?

To gain more followers quickly, we could come up with even more restrictions. Really dramatic ones, like end all contact with your family members who aren't born again. Or have only one child in order not to deviate your attention from Jesus.

In the church, we could have a widescreen permanently airing hellfire imagery for the duration of the service, just to remind ditherers ''what's in store for them'' in the event that they ''stray from the path''.

Add to this endless promises and orchestrated ''testimonies'' of financial prosperity for adherents, tied to the amount of money they donate.

Perhaps another widescreen featuring seaside mansions, jacuzzis, and Jaguars for those choosing ''the right path''.

Front the services with a sharply dressed pastor, preferably one with an American accent and gesticulations.

You'll be shocked at the increase in congregation size within a  few weeks of this new church.

And the kind of money you'll see rolling in.

I'm absolutely certain that the more ''dos and don'ts'' we lay down, the more dramatically we portray the consequences of their flouting, and the rewards for conformity, the more sheep we'll attract.

I am game o! This ya plan will surely work in jesus name! AMEEN! God bless God for creating multitudes of dense people for pious people like us to fleece.

ROSSIKE:

Jenwitemi and Kay, are you guys game?

To gain more followers quickly, we could come up with even more restrictions. Really dramatic ones, like end all contact with your family members who aren't born again. Or have only one child in order not to deviate your attention from Jesus.

In the church, we could have a widescreen permanently airing hellfire imagery for the duration of the service, just to remind ditherers ''what's in store for them'' in the event that they ''stray from the path''.

Add to this endless promises and orchestrated ''testimonies'' of financial prosperity for adherents, tied to the amount of money they donate.

Perhaps another widescreen featuring seaside mansions, jacuzzis, and Jaguars for those choosing ''the right path''.

Front the services with a sharply dressed pastor, preferably one with an American accent and gesticulations.

You'll be shocked at the increase in congregation size within a  few weeks of this new church.

And the kind of money you'll see rolling in.

I'm absolutely certain that the more ''dos and don'ts'' we lay down, the more dramatically we portray the consequences of their flouting, and the rewards for conformity, the more sheep we'll attract.

*Yawn*

Who invented the wheel? Who cares? You all use it anyway and you can't do without it.

[size=15pt]Sin is any Contrived Deviation from Divine Design.[/size]

InesQor said:

*Yawn*

Who invented the wheel? Who cares? You all use it anyway and you can't do without it.

Sin is any Contrived Deviation from Divine Design.

And just WHO gets to decide what this ''Divine Design'' is?

The pope?

Some character in a Jewish book?

A pastor?

You?

InesQor:


  [img width=70 height=70]http://www.legaljuice.com/yawn%20big%20funny.jpg[/img]

Who invented the wheel? Who cares? You all use it anyway and you can't do without it.

Sin is any Contrived Deviation from Divine Design.

@InesQor

Looks like that was lifted inspired from leafing through BS 7925-2 Glossary of Software Testing Terms

OK, going by that, so what would sin be?: Is it a bug, a fault or a failure  

ROSSIKE:

InesQor said:
And just WHO gets to decide what this ''Divine Design'' is?

This is simple. The Divine Designer knows. He does not need to "decide".

e36991:

@InesQor

Looks like that was lifted inspired from leafing through BS: 7925-2 Glossary of Software Testing Terms

OK, going by that, so what would sin be?: Is it a bug, a fault or a failure  

LOL!  You've got jokes, man!! None of the above, bro! Because a bug, a fault or a failure is never the fault of the defective part.

Note that I said CONTRIVED. It is a deliberate and purposeful deviation, even if done ignorantly.

---

I found this here: http://www.theopedia.com/Talk:Sin

The interpretation of the word "sin" as being an archery term for missing the mark, or going astray, is interpreted from the original Aramaic word "khatatha" . Jesus's tongue was Aramaic and most translations that we know, e.g. The King James version, were translated from Aramaic to Greek and then into Latin and finally into all the other languages. Words got lost or changed in translation. It makes sense that going astray could be misconstrued to mean doing wrong, when really what it means is missing the aim. The word "khatatha" was shouted out to let the archer know he'd missed the mark and to try again. So, the archer then reassessed, concentrated and did his best to hit the mark accurately.

Originally, Judaism held that there were three kinds of sin. The generic Hebrew word for any kind of sin is aveira. Based on verses from the Old Testament, Judaism describes three levels of sin.
Pesha or Mered - An intentional sin; an action committed in deliberate defiance of God;
Avon - This is a sin of lust or uncontrollable emotion. It is a sin done knowingly, but not done to defy God;
Cheit - This is an unintentional sin.

But whichever way, sin is sin is sin, none is greater or lesser. No cadres. Sin is a contrived deviation from original (divine) design. It is a Missing of the mark.

InesQor:


This is simple. The Divine Designer knows. He does not need to "decide".

InesQor:


This is simple. The Divine Designer knows. He does not need to "decide".
LOL!  You've got jokes, man!! None of the above, bro! Because a bug, a fault or a failure is never the fault of the defective part.

Note that I said CONTRIVED. It is a deliberate and purposeful deviation, even if done ignorantly.

InesQor:


I found this here: http://www.theopedia.com/Talk:Sin

The interpretation of the word "sin" as being an archery term for missing the mark, or going astray, is interpreted from the original Aramaic word "khatatha" . Jesus's tongue was Aramaic and most translations that we know, e.g. The King James version, were translated from Aramaic to Greek and then into Latin and finally into all the other languages. Words got lost or changed in translation. It makes sense that going astray could be misconstrued to mean doing wrong, when really what it means is missing the aim. The word "khatatha" was shouted out to let the archer know he'd missed the mark and to try again. So, the archer then reassessed, concentrated and did his best to hit the mark accurately.


Originally, Judaism held that there were three kinds of sin. The generic Hebrew word for any kind of sin is aveira. Based on verses from the Old Testament, Judaism describes three levels of sin.
Pesha or Mered - An intentional sin; an action committed in deliberate defiance of God;
Avon - This is a sin of lust or uncontrollable emotion. It is a sin done knowingly, but not done to defy God;
Cheit - This is an unintentional sin.

---

---

But whichever way, sin is sin is sin, none is greater or lesser. No cadres. Sin is a contrived deviation from original (divine) design.

It is a Missing of the mark.

@InesQor

Ah-ha! Was actually just horseplaying because the sin with deviation and design part resembled testing terminologies

I am actually familiar with the "missing the target and archery" illustration either from off the net or from watching one of these satellite channels

Nice, theopedia has been bookmarked  

@e36991

LOL alright bro

Oh well didnt want to but caved in

- a bug is an action of a user that produces an incorrect or unexpected result
- a fault is a flaw in a component or system that cause it not to perform its function
- a failure is a deviation of a component or system that prevents it for performing an expected delivery, service or result
NB a bug leads to a fault and fault to failure but importantly not all faults necessarily lead to a failure

e36991:

Oh well didnt want to but caved in

- a bug is an action of a user that produces an incorrect or unexpected result
- a fault is a flaw in a component or system that cause it not to perform its function
- a failure is a deviation of a component or system that prevents it for performing an expected delivery, service or result
NB a bug leads to a fault and fault to failure but importantly not all faults necessarily lead to a failure

This is brilliant.

In that case, I guess sin is like a failure. The sin nature is like a bug. (Temptation is like a fault following a bug's procedural processes?) Argh Im feeling lazy right now. Lol.

InesQor:


In that case, I guess sin is like a failure.

The sin nature is like a bug.

(Temptation is like a fault following a bug's procedural processes?)

Argh Im feeling lazy right now. 

@InesQor

I LURVE YOU MAN! 

Pardon the edit please

Temptation or thoughts is like a defect or fault in the component or system's coding (i.e. the statement/decision/condition procedural processes)

^{- Gimme five, high five} 

inesQor said:

Quote from: ROSSIKE on Today at 06:56:34 PM
InesQor said:
And just WHO gets to decide what this ''Divine Design'' is?

This is simple. The Divine Designer knows. He does not need to "decide".

I'm sorry but it's really not quite so simple.

You are fronting a religion that claims to KNOW what the ''divine design'' is. They produced ''commandments'' supposedly emanating from God. They claimed to have hosted no less a personage than the ''Son of God'' himself in their homeland, insisting that all must worship this character or risk eternal damnation.

They, in other words, have positioned themselves as representatives or emissaries of the Creator of the Universes. Through THEM all his laws come down to us ''Gentiles''. Through THEM his ''saviour'' and ''Only Son'' comes. ''Angels'', when they remember us, stop over in THEIR land.

They also claim that THEY are the ''chosen people'' of the Creator of the Universes.

In effect, THEY tell US what the ''Divine Design'' is, something you're trying to avoid admitting.

But I put it to you that it is in fact THEIR design, and not any ''Divine Design''.

Anything truly ''Divine'' cannot predicate its dissemination on bloodshed, on crusades, jihads, and slave drives, or on the blind acceptance without proof, of claims made by a group of middle easterners, especially a group that admits to wholesale massacres of its neighbours throughout its history, all on the command of this same allegedly ''Divine Being'' with a ''Divine Design'' they claim to represent.

So again, I ask you, WHAT is the DIVINE DESIGN, because unless you KNOW what this is, you cannot talk about SIN.

@e36991:
Thanks man! I really love how you think, too!!

---

@ROSSIKE:

I don't get what this "THEY" against 'US" thing you're peddling is. Im one of those "they" guys too  

Since it is not so simple, let me make it simple.    

Let's figure this out step-wise:

1. What does it mean for something to be divine?  

Abeg, give it to him hard like a good resounding slap, Rossike, so that it keeps ringing in his ears forever.

ROSSIKE:

inesQor said:

[/b]

I'm sorry but it's really not quite so simple.

You are fronting a religion that claims to KNOW what the ''divine design'' is. They produced ''commandments'' supposedly emanating from God. They claimed to have hosted no less a personage than the ''Son of God'' himself in their homeland, insisting that all must worship this character or risk eternal damnation.

They, in other words, have positioned themselves as representatives or emissaries of the Creator of the Universes. Through THEM all his laws come down to us ''Gentiles''. Through THEM his ''saviour'' and ''Only Son'' comes. ''Angels'', when they remember us, stop over in THEIR land.

They also claim that THEY are the ''chosen people'' of the Creator of the Universes.

In effect, [b]THEY tell US what the ''Divine Design'' is, something you're trying to avoid admitting.

But I put it to you that it is in fact THEIR design, and not any ''Divine Design''.

Anything truly ''Divine'' cannot predicate its dissemination on bloodshed, on crusades, jihads, and slave drives, or on the blind acceptance without proof, of claims made by a group of middle easterners, especially a group that admits to wholesale massacres of its neighbours throughout its history, all on the command of this same allegedly ''Divine Being'' with a ''Divine Design'' they claim to represent.

So again, I ask you, WHAT is the DIVINE DESIGN, because unless you KNOW what this is, you cannot talk about SIN.

You dey mind am? somebody (who knows nothing) comes in here and starts waving what is "devine" and what is not all over the place.

ROSSIKE:

InesQor said:

And just WHO gets to decide what this ''Divine Design'' is?

The pope?

Some character in a Jewish book?

A pastor?

You?

Why don't you tell us since you're the expert on what is devine.

InesQor:

1. What does it mean for something to be divine?

InesQor:


  [img width=70 height=70]http://www.legaljuice.com/yawn%20big%20funny.jpg[/img]

Who invented the wheel? Who cares? You all use it anyway and you can't do without it.

Sin is any Contrived Deviation from Divine Design.

ROSSIKE:


And just WHO gets to decide what this ''Divine Design'' is?

The pope?

Some character in a Jewish book?

A pastor?

You?

InesQor:


This is simple. The Divine Designer knows. He does not need to "decide"

ROSSIKE:


I'm sorry but it's really not quite so simple.

You are fronting a religion that claims to KNOW what the ''divine design'' is. They produced ''commandments'' supposedly emanating from God. They claimed to have hosted no less a personage than the ''Son of God'' himself in their homeland, insisting that all must worship this character or risk eternal damnation.

They, in other words, have positioned themselves as representatives or emissaries of the Creator of the Universes. Through THEM all his laws come down to us ''Gentiles''. Through THEM his ''saviour'' and ''Only Son'' comes. ''Angels'', when they remember us, stop over in THEIR land.

They also claim that THEY are the ''chosen people'' of the Creator of the Universes.

In effect, THEY tell US what the ''Divine Design'' is, something you're trying to avoid admitting.

But I put it to you that it is in fact THEIR design, and not any ''Divine Design''.

Anything truly ''Divine'' cannot predicate its dissemination on bloodshed, on crusades, jihads, and slave drives, or on the blind acceptance without proof, of claims made by a group of middle easterners, especially a group that admits to wholesale massacres of its neighbours throughout its history, all on the command of this same allegedly ''Divine Being'' with a ''Divine Design'' they claim to represent.

So again, I ask you, WHAT is the DIVINE DESIGN, because unless you KNOW what this is, you cannot talk about SIN.

@ROSSIKE

The Divine Design is a product (i.e. man)

The waterfall model (i.e. sequential model) was used in developing the product - man.

The thing with this model is that testing is done at the last stage, in block (i.e. not until after the design, when the product coding has been written)

Normally the acceptance of the product though is subject to it satisfying all specifications (i.e. the requirements, functional, technical and design specs)

@Jenwitemi:

Dont you get tired of this? 

I am yet to find ONE thread where you contributed USEFUL original content. Its only to heckle at Christians here and there. Even many notorious anti-christians on NL have at least some useful posts to their names.

Wake up, man.

@ROSSIKE
You need a good pastor who mesmerize his audience with his yarnings and nollywood  acting skills. Someone who understands psycology and who can learn a few magic tricks to standout from the crowd

Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
-Unknown

Oohh! Brilliant! Bravo! We are getting technical now to prove the grand design of the divine kind! Impressive!

Please answer the following questions;

1)Who are the designers? a) God according to the ancient jews; b) God according to the pope?
2) Who is doing the "waterfall model" as you put it? a) God according to the ancient jews; b) God according to the pope?
3)Who is doing the testing at the last stage? a) God according to the ancient jews; b) God according to the pope?
4)Who is doing the acceptance of the "modell" in question? a) God according to the ancient jews; b) God according to the pope?

e36991:

@ROSSIKE

The Divine Design is a product (i.e. man)

The waterfall model (i.e. sequential model) was used in developing the product - man.

The thing with this model is that testing is done at the last stage, in block (i.e. not until after the design, when the product coding has been written)

Normally the acceptance of the product though is subject to it satisfying all specifications (i.e. the requirements, functional, technical and design specs)

Useful contribution to a topic on christian doctrine? Are you kidding me? Whatever has the dubious goal of turning my fellow man into a slowpoke deserves nothing other than ridicule from me.
Besides, i do contribute to some threads meaningfully enough. It is just that you don't notice because you edit them all out because i am never on your side of the equation, see?

InesQor:

@Jenwitemi:

Dont you get tired of this? 

I am yet to find ONE thread where you contributed USEFUL original content. Its only to heckle at Christians here and there. Even many notorious anti-christians on NL have at least some useful posts to their names.

Wake up, man.

Jenwitemi:


Oohh! Brilliant! Bravo! We are getting technical now to prove the grand design of the divine kind! Impressive!

Please answer the following questions;

1) Who are the designers?
a) God according to the ancient jews;
b) God according to the pope?

2) Who is doing the "waterfall model" as you put it?
a) God according to the ancient jews;
b) God according to the pope?

3) Who is doing the testing at the last stage?
a) God according to the ancient jews;
b) God according to the pope?

4) Who is doing the acceptance of the "modell" in question?
a) God according to the ancient jews;
b) God according to the pope?

@Jenwitemi

"Won o mo pe, ore mi yi, ti giran" literally "This is a toughened cookie friend"

Ah-ha, you go talk your own now. Why not

Do I sense gusto laced with sarcasm

Sorry you'll have to salivate a bit longer for the answers

PS:

4) Who is doing the acceptance of the "modell" in question?

should be

4) Who is doing the acceptance of the "modell" product (i.e. man) in question?

manmustwac said:

@ROSSIKE
You need a good pastor who can mesmerize his audience with his yarnings and nollywood acting skills. Someone who understands psycology and who can learn a few magic tricks to standout from the crowd

manmustwac, thanks bro. Any idea where I can find one?

Jenwitemi:

Useful contribution to a topic on christian doctrine? Are you kidding me? Whatever has the dubious goal of turning my fellow man into a slowpoke deserves nothing other than ridicule from me.
Besides, i do contribute to some threads meaningfully enough. It is just that you don't notice because you edit them all out because i am never on your side of the equation, see?

Mr Man you have no excuse. I have even contributed on threads about Deism, Ifa, Buddhism, Philosophy, "Mathematics and the Supernatural" if I may say so (Deep Sight's Oneness of Infinity) and so many others WITHOUT denigrating their beliefs. In particular, I often like to respond to posters that are known to NOT like getting scriptural references.

Just because you disagree with a topic does not mean you can't make meaningful contributions on the topic and think rationally.

You need to have a wider mental horizon.

Having a wider mental horizon has never been my problem, brethren. As a matter of fact, yearning for widened mental horizon was what made me ditch the christian doctrine and declare it as a BS made for morons. I wanted to spread my mental wings in all directions, see, and christanity was caging me in.

And please, don't tell me that YOU, inesqor, has a widened mental horizon. You are a christian for heaven's sake! Most christians - save for precious few - don't have widened mental horizons. They have narrow ones and that is exactly why they are "good christians". Just because you participate in broad topics does not make you mentally broad because your stand in those discussions are still the same narrow christian views.

I no longer participate in a lot of these topics because i have done that to a great length in the past before coming to this board, and i am kind of jaded. I prefer to just chill and read other folks' views on such matters. My mental horizon is so vast, you wouldn't believe it.

InesQor:

Mr Man you have no excuse. I have even contributed on threads about Deism, Ifa, Buddhism, Philosophy, "Mathematics and the Supernatural" if I may say so (Deep Sight's Oneness of Infinity) and so many others WITHOUT denigrating their beliefs. In particular, I often like to respond to posters that are known to NOT like getting scriptural references.

Just because you disagree with a topic does not mean you can't make meaningful contributions on the topic and think rationally.

You need to have a wider mental horizon.

@Jenwitemi:

Jenwitemi:

Having a wider mental horizon has never been my problem, brethren. As a matter of fact, yearning for widened mental horizon was what made me ditch the christian doctrine and declare it as a BS made for morons. I wanted to spread my mental wings in all directions, see, and christanity was caging me in.

And please, don't tell me that YOU, inesqor, has a widened mental horizon. You are a christian for heaven's sake! Most christians - save for precious few - don't have widened mental horizons. They have narrow ones and that is exactly why they are "good christians". Just because you participate in broad topics does not make you mentally broad because your stand in those discussions are still the same narrow christian views.

I no longer participate in a lot of these topics because i have done that to a great length in the past before coming to this board, and i am kind of jaded. I prefer to just chill and read other folks' views on such matters. My mental horizon is so vast, you wouldn't believe it.

Congrats on your vast mental horizon. Please let it show in your posts, the way it does for MyJoe, Krayola, Pastor AIO, m_nwankwo and other non-Christian contributors that I know. Even though they (at least some of them) dislike the popular Christian doctrines, they still deliver intelligent and useful original content out of the wealth of their understanding.

If I recall correctly, Deep Sight has called you out on this same matter in the past. Maybe Im wrong though.

As the Lagosians say, "Leave story".