I am not Nigerian . After spending a fortune on the Burial i am of the impression that since i am coming from abroad to nigeria i will still need to take gifts and may even have to leave some of my personal belonings behind because somebody may "just like it". What has happen to the words grief, mourning,sadness,sorrow when someones dies followed closely affinity,commiseration,compassion,consideration,empathy, kindness understanding.why is it an occassion to squeeze money out of people and be greedy? It is absoulutely RUTHLESS. i think some Nigerian has not yet understood the humanely aspect of death. it is as if they sit and pray for someone to die so they can celebrate and EAT. on other people expenses especially from those who live abroad. Why!

Did your Nigerian spouse die?  if so, pls accept my condolences.
You really don't have to take any crap from his extended family.

You can start by saying No!

A notable man died in my village about 11 years ago - one of his children was a former health minister and another was LUTH medical director. Of course the village people expected a money making festival.

This family went to the village, conducted the funeral service right at the burial ground and gave everyone in attendance takeaway packs then they left the village. All in one day. people talked but forgot about it in one day cos another fool would borrow money to show off the next wkd while buring their own dead.

So what I'm saying is: dont be influenced by some stupid culture, tradition or peer and family pressure. Do what you can and get out of there. People will talk but who cares? they will talk anyway, regardless of what you do or how you do it.

My parents know better than asking for money to buy family cloth . . cos I already put them in check!

Sometimes it's easier said than done - especially if the diseased was a reputable man in the community. 

I empathise with Trinigal because the demands from family back home can seem very callous at times, especially to someone who comes from a culture where the dead are actually mourned and where the family of the dead are commiserated with. I know that such demands - to finish off a bigger building, or to buy x number of cows (to appease the different elders or other such traditional groups the deceased belonged to) or to entertain a multitude, many of whom would not even have known the deceased personally - can seem overwhelming, but there are certain traditions that are abided by not because they are perfect, but because they are what they are - tradition. And also, that's the way he would have wanted to go . . .

I will not stand at your grave and weep -

You are not here, you do not sleep
You are the sunlight on ripened grain
You are the refreshing midday rain

When I awaken in the morning’s hush

You are the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight
You are the soft stars that shine at night

I will not stand at your grave and cry
You are not there, you did not die . . .

RIP Sir J. O - you were a great father.

trinigal:

I am not Nigerian . After spending a fortune on the Burial i am of the impression that since i am coming from abroad to nigeria i will still need to take gifts and may even have to leave some of my personal belonings behind because somebody may "just like it". What has happen to the words grief, mourning,sadness,sorrow when someones dies followed closely affinity,commiseration,compassion,consideration,empathy, kindness understanding.why is it an occassion to squeeze money out of people and be greedy? It is absoulutely RUTHLESS. i think some Nigerian has not yet understood the humanely aspect of death. it is as if they sit and pray for someone to die so they can celebrate and EAT. on other people expenses especially from those who live abroad. Why!

@The poster, sorry for the loss of your loved one. May his/her soul rest in peace.
Having said that, funeral can be expensive else where not just in Nigeria. We all saw Michael Jackson's funeral. I learnt the casket alone cost over a million dollars. We also saw live on Tv lady Diana Princess of Wales' funeral.
I do not know what part of Nigeria the funeral occured but it is good to know some tips about death and dying in Nigeria. With good knowledge of that, you may not regret the expences at the burial. You will realise the man or woman is worthy of it.

Seun:

Did your Nigerian spouse die?  if so, pls accept my condolences.
You really don't have to take any crap from his extended family.

Thanks. It was my father in law.

abadaba:

@The poster, sorry for the loss of your loved one. May his/her soul rest in peace.
Having said that, funeral can be expensive else where not just in Nigeria. We all saw Michael Jackson's funeral. I learnt the casket alone cost over a million dollars. We also saw live on Tv lady Diana Princess of Wales' funeral.
I do not know what part of Nigeria the funeral occured but it is good to know some tips about death and dying in Nigeria. With good knowledge of that, you may not regret the expences at the burial. You will realise the man or woman is worthy of it.

The funeral will be in Abia State. I know that the man is worthy of it, but it is just too expensive. And I feel for beneli my husband.

@ kokoye, thanks

@Beneli.
Andrew U. on behalf of Igbo Youths U.K condoles you on the death of your beloved father. May his Soul rest in Peace.
Nwannem, Dibe, Dibe, Ndidi Ka nma.

^

Ime'la. . .

@Beneli: May God be with you and family at this time of great loss.
Ndo.

beneli:

Sometimes it's easier said than done - especially if the diseased was a reputable man in the community. 

I empathise with Trinigal because the demands from family back home can seem very callous at times, especially to someone who comes from a culture where the dead are actually mourned and where the family of the dead are commiserated with. I know that such demands - to finish off a bigger building, or to buy x number of cows (to appease the different elders or other such traditional groups the deceased belonged to) or to entertain a multitude, many of whom would not even have known the deceased personally - can seem overwhelming, but there are certain traditions that are abided by not because they are perfect, but because they are what they are - tradition. And also, that's the way he would have wanted to go . . .

I will not stand at your grave and weep -

You are not here, you do not sleep
You are the sunlight on ripened grain
You are the refreshing midday rain

When I awaken in the morning’s hush

You are the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight
You are the soft stars that shine at night

I will not stand at your grave and cry
You are not there, you did not die . . .

RIP Sir J. O - you were a great father. 

Jh'aahu, deede; jh'aahu wo.

@ ChinenyeN and abadaba,

Unu eme'ela.

@ Beneli, sorry for your loss. May his soul rest in peace.

Culture and Tradition : these are the main reasons for corruption in Nigeria.

If something is obviouisly not working for you then you need to say No. As long as we are trying to conform, things will never get better.

I will say this again, THE DEAD IS DEAD. Take care of them when they are alive!!!

whatever you do for them after they are gone is not for them . . it is for for you.

^

I appreciate your condolence. You are right in some of the things you have said. There are aspects of culture which need to be changed, seeing that human societies are dynamic.

Culture and traditions obviously change as we, who live them, change. As we become more enlightened, we are able to replace some of those traditions founded on ignorance with things, we consider 'more acceptable'. Yet . . . and yet I am not so sure that all the things that we find less agreeable, need to be changed.

I, for one have been shaped more by alien traditions and cultures than those native to my ethnic roots. I have lived more years outside of my homeland, been insidiously socialised into worldviews of the different societies in which my personality have been formed. I have become like a 'hybrid' - a marginal man, who at different points in my life have been a 'rebel' of a sort against some of the 'traditions' of those who have come before me. And at different times, i have almost felt rootless. But as one grows older, one begins to undersatnd that what one accepts as 'right or wrong' - whether traditions, culture or whatever - depends on so many environmental and personal factors. And while it becomes arguable as to whether there are really any absolute rights or wrongs, it is still necessary to respect some of these traditions or culture, even if we don't quite agree with them.

Pardon me if I sound like I am waffling. . . .perhaps, it's a guilt trip or whatever. . . . but while my father was grounded in the ways of old - even though he was well educated and travelled - I, on the other hand, sometimes dismissed some of the things he held on to as irrelevant to my own needs.  But I ask myself now; would a Seikh still go ahead and cremate the body of their loved one, even if that loved one converted to say, Christianity before they died? Would it not be disrespectful for that person to try to use their own interpretations of reality and the understanding of the 'afterlife'  as the yardstick to decide the best way to honour their dead?   

And when you say; whatever we do after they are gone, is just for us, I hesitate to agree, because in my worldview, those that we love continue to live in our memories. They do not completely die as was so beautifully expressed in the poem by the anonymous poet in my previous post. So, my brother, I am inclined to think that the least we can do when memory is all that is left of our loved ones,  is to adorn those memories with the things, which they consider to be most respectful and dignified. Even if it costs us a fortune.

You see, I think that there is something 'redeeming' about treating the 'dead' the way that they would have wanted to be treated . So in a way, I may agree with you - it is done for our own sake.

@ Inkerd_Nerd, Thanks!

I've wondered what can be done to change some of our traditions in Igboland, especially the ones surrounding death. The burial of loved ones had become tantamount to exploitation and tearing apart of bereaved persons. Things need to change, and we all must come together to let go of the things that entangles us.

My condolences.

Just say No. simple.

Do it in a way that wil not leave you drench or misrable afterwards. Morrally or financially.

We need to start saying NO. . . not pleasing others at our own expense.

Beneli,

If you still have a living parent (mom). Please take care of her while she is still alive. That will give you all the loving memories you need.

That is all that matters.

____________________

I bought a car for my parents, gave them befitting birthdays parties and grandkids. I also sponsored their trip and accomodation to Europe and the United States.

They are fulfilled and lived to see their kids becomes successful while they are alive. that is all that matters to them.

When they pass on to glory, their bodies will be prayed over and buried. Their souls have moved on.

I am not going to waste money and time on those bodies - I did that while they were alive and could feel it.

And I honestly wont care what anybody says.

Some people abandon their parents while alive only to borrow money for show off parties when they die. SMH

^

What of in a situation where you did not abandon them in life, do we refuse to respond to the obligations to the local traditions and culture?

I know that you mean well in your advice but this post has been more about the burial process itself. My wifes anxieties are from the fact that after the things we did do in his life, society still expects so much. . . .

I have been told that I have obligations to the various amaala groups (elder groups) . . . up to five of them; obligations to the maternal inlaws; obligations to the Knights and the church groups etc. These obligations include buying things like cows and crates of different drinks. I ask what happens to people who are not in a position to fulfil these obligations and I am told that they make pledges, which they redeem at a later date.

I have tried to slash down the number of people that would be entertained, but I can't get away with having the quiet ceremony for close family members, which I would have preferred, because 'tradition' dictates otherwise. So i have to make provisions to 'entertain' up to a thousand people, many of who probably did not wish him well.

I don't need to show off to anybody. In my own right I am comfortable- so don't need to 'borrow' to do this - and people who know my father respect him for the foundations he laid for his children. My father lived a good life - he drove the mercedees, which he wanted, had among the biggest houses in the community etc, so I don't have the insecurity issues that would fuel the need to be salvaged by 'showing off'.

My guilt is out of the fact that I did not believe in some of these traditions that mean't so much to him. So, as a last act of respect, I will fulfill my obligations to these customs whether they mean anything to me or not. . . .

@kokoye,

I do understand where you are coming from though and agree with what you say.

My point, however, is that it's difficult to take a decision about burial rites, which disagree with how your loved ones lived and hoped to die.
It would be much easier if we are bold enough to raise discussions with our aging parents about how they wish to be buried.
In some societies people write advance directives, which includes those sort of things.

My father did not have an advance directive. We didn't have a discussion about how to go about laying him to rest - it didn't seem quite appropriate.
And all i know is that he respected the traditions in which he was brought up and that he also belonged to different groups in the community, who each have their own 'traditions' to comply with.

I ask myself; if i had to borrow money to lay him to rest according to his own worldview, would i do so? The answer is 'Yes'.

So until we are able to change the way we do things, all we are left with is to abide by the expectations of the loved ones we wish to lay to rest.
I don't know how it's done in the rest of ala Igbo or in the part of Nigeria where you come from, but due to my 'ignorance' of our ways, I am left at the mercy of what I am told is the way 'things are done'.
If I did not have the burden of having 'rebelled' against 'tradition' in his lifetime, perhaps I would have 'rebelled' now and done things my way.

But given the burden, it redeems me to do what I am told to do. . . I hope that makes sense.

I also undersatand where you are coming from. and I wasnt referring to you when I was talking about those who borrow to show off. But we all know a lot of poeple do this, not because they want to, but really because it is what the 'society' expects from them in most cases.

Correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of 'this is how it is done' does not always mean it is the right way to do things.

Your words "So until we are able to change the way we do things, all we are left with is to abide by the expectations of the loved ones we wish to lay to rest."

So who is going to change these ways if we dont start it somehow . . someone needs to start. . .right?

A lot of stuff my parents did back in the days looked ok at the time but now, when they look back, those things were totally unccessary and even seem occultic, but they had to do them since it was the tradition (I am an ekiti man by the way). A lot of people have been unknowingly doomed in during childhood by these things we call culture and tradition.

I see a lot of poeple struggling to buy aso-abi even when they cannot afford it. but they have to get it somehow because it is the culture. Some of these poeple dont even have money to pay their rent but they will find money to buy 3 aso-ebis in a single month.

So why do we blame our politicians?? Our culture and tradition make it is inevitable for them not to embezzle money. If a senator or governor has a decent party, we will crucify them as money miss road or greedy and selfish. Meanwhile the poor guy only wanted to live according to his means.

Thank God for our tradition and culture - they have their good and bad sides. I have decided to move on with the good of it and drop the gabbage.

I am not trying to change your mind . . just airing my own views.

@beneli.Nna ndo,accept my condolence.

Accept my condolence @beneli.

This is one of the best thread have seen so far. Educative and straight to the point discussions. good job guys.