nelsonoba:
Oga MuttleyLaff, Petra1 has said the exact same thing I believe. I believe the body of Christ is not perfect and people will always make mistakes as such. I believe that the fact that the body of Christ is prone to mistake does not mean we should condone and encourage such mistakes to continue. I also believe there is order in the body of Christ (which the bible describes as an army) just as there is order in any military force, and in the military, when officers are, there are procedures to deal with them which we know as a court-martial. You don't just go about as a civilian looking for Colonels and Generals that have broken the law for you to discipline them. If you try it, you will have problem, but if another senior General constitutes a court-martial to deal with the same erring officers, things will be addressed adequately without more problems.
Also, you can't use because of the mistakes and errors of 70% of people who are pastors to now condemn all pastors and be saying all pastors are evil or fraudsters. If you haven't met genuine pastors in your life before, I HAVE MET MANY MYSELF! I have also met fraudulent pastors and to even shock you, I have been defrauded in the past by some people who claimed to be "pastors". So don't think I am saying what I am saying because I haven't seen bad pastors before and I am naive. Now, I know better to not just trust people simply because they claim to be pastors, but because of the character I see in them.......just as Jesus said, "by their fruits, you shall know them".

www.nairaland.com/attachments/10637270_bhrheefcuaeun6h_jpeg0026cbc84007bdaf194d7e18ac72fe33
nelsonoba, the pasted above picture, is worth more than ten thousand words.

MuttleyLaff:
www.nairaland.com/attachments/10637270_bhrheefcuaeun6h_jpeg0026cbc84007bdaf194d7e18ac72fe33
nelsonoba, the pasted above picture, is worth more than ten thousand words.

I have seen that picture many times, but you fail to open your eyes to understand a thing! That picture refers to DEMOCRACY. It can also refer to some other forms of human government where human beings appoint a leader to govern them. When it comes to the church of Christ, is it a government of DEMOCRACY Have you ever heard God consult you before calling any of the men of God we hear about today? Have you also heard the devil consult you when he calls any of the fake pastors we know of today? So mr man, there is no democracy involved here. Keep your democracy to politics. After all, in God's kingdom, Democracy is not allowed because God is king all by himself and didn't need our help to become all powerful

nelsonoba:
When it comes to the church of Christ, is it a government of DEMOCRACY? Have you ever heard God consult you before calling any of the men of God we hear about today? Have you also heard the devil consult you when he calls any of the fake pastors we know of today? So mr man, there is no democracy involved here. Keep your democracy to politics. After all, in God's kingdom, Democracy is not allowed because God is king all by himself and didn't need our help to become all powerful

Smh. Instead of you to just suck it in, but no, you rather be hellbent on publicly displaying your ignorance and showing yourself up, erhn. Someone should try and put duct tape on your hands and fingers

So what, if that picture originally refers to "democracy"? Whether it refers to or doesnt refer to democracy, is irrelevant. What is relevant is its common denominator it shares with dodgy politicians and/or pastors. It portrays the picture that, it is you who gives these people (i.e. dodgy politicians and/or pastors) the power to enslave and subjugate you. It is the support you give them that keeps them in balance and/or power. Step back, one by one, away from the board plank, then wait to watch and see what happens to the dodgy politician(s) and/or pastor(s). What happens is the politician(s) and/or pastor(s), sooner or later tumble and fall over, lol

nelsonoba:
When it comes to the church of Christ, is it a government of DEMOCRACY

"⁴²So Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them (i.e. their high officials exercise authority over them.)
⁴³But among you it will be different Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant,"
- Mark 10:42-43

Yes nelsonoba, the church of Christ, is government of DEMOCRACY, and according to Jesus, in Mark 10:42-43 above when talking to the discples, it is a special and/or different kind of government of DEMOCRACY. Democracy, fyi, has biblical roots that you're unaware of, lol. Life, in the beginning, started on a democratic footing, lol. Also, I am sure you've heard it said that, democracy is a government of all the people, by all the people, for all the people, abi?

nelsonoba:
Have you ever heard God consult you before calling any of the men of God we hear about today? Have you also heard the devil consult you when he calls any of the fake pastors we know of today? So mr man, there is no democracy involved here. Keep your democracy to politics. After all, in God's kingdom, Democracy is not allowed because God is king all by himself and didn't need our help to become all powerful

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, a small rock and upon the large rock I will build my congregation {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones},
and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against her."
- Matthew 16:18

I am sure you didnt know that Jesus was interested in democracy that much that He adopted the phraseology ekklesia, taken from the first known democracy in the world, lol, the Athenian democracy.

Ekklesia, meaning, a gathering of those called out and/or summoned ones, is the principal assembly, open to all male citizens as soon as they qualified for citizenship of ancient Athens. Ekklesia is an Athenian democracy feature that allowed all Athenian citizens to come together, regardless of class and so even the lowest social class of citizens to discuss civil matters and/or participate in democratic politics. Everyone was considered equal in the ekklesia and any citizen present could participate and share his ideas, opinions, and concerns." Incidentally, what Jesus in Mark 10:42-43 above, was teaching the disciples is what Theodore Parker captured perfectly well, with the quote, that: "Democracy means not, I am as good as you are, but you are as good as I am"

nelsonoba, Jesus changed the original political meaning of ekklesia to a religious one. Praise God. Alleluia. We are talking here, of radical and liberal democracy nelsonoba, lol, and that's where Galatians 3:26-28, Acts 4:42-47 and James 1:27 took their cue from, lol.

nelsonoba, let me clear you up properly on ekklesia, lol, so you'll know what is really going on with it. Maybe, you'll learn a thing or two, and would have become wiser and wise enough to make re-adjustments, where and/or if applicable, to your theology, lol.

To start with and as a matter of fact, "ekklesia" is the proper and correct noun word for used for believers, called out and/or gathered together, which the word "church", as it is, presently or currently represents.

"Ekklesia" actually, is a Greek word, which in Athens and in most Greek poleis (i.e. Greek cities or states) means an assembly of demo
(i.e. yes, demo, is the Greek word for people, as like the "demo" in democracy) So "ekklesia" effectively, is an assembly of summoned free people or a gathering of those summoned. The word "ekklesia", is derived from "ekkletos" meaning summoned and "ekkaleom" meaning to summon or call out. "Ekkletoi" refers to the called-out inhabitants or citizens of Athens or any of the Greek poleis, come together in a single place and/or single group, as a result of a call out request done by a herald, announcer or town crier.

"Ekklesia" an assembly, congregation, the whole body of believers, come together, as a result of a call out request done by our Lord Jesus Christ and not some church or something anyone starts, because as I previously typed, ekklesia is a family we belong to.

The true meaning, import or connotation of "ekklesia" is lost or eroded when it is used or translated to/as "church", as "ekklesia" represents something totally different to what we've commonly perceived what "church" is.

"Ekklesia," as far back in the Old Testament wilderness days, has always been an assembly or congregation of called-out people (i.e. Acts 7:38 is referring to the congregation in Deuteronomy 9:10) and it's no different in the original Greek New Testament whether used in non-secular and secular settings (i.e. Matthew 16:18 and Acts 7:38 for non-secular then Acts 19:32, 39 and 41 for secular) Notice in Acts 19:32, 39 and 41, that "ekklesia" is used three times, for people not connected with religious or believers matters, but are assembling or gathering together.

So the point is that "ekklesia" isn't about physical structures, buildings, cathedrals etcetera, and the Greeks, the originators of the word, never referred "ekklesia", to be church, building or place of worship.

I am sure nelsonoba, you'll return here to say, all this etymology stuff on "ekklesia", is bunkum and time wasting, it's nitpicking over minute details, and that it's pedantic and fault-finding or you, even might say, church or ekklesia, whatever the noun used, it doesn't matter. Well if you do nelsonoba, that will be you delighting in ignorance(s), with saying, church or ekklesia, it makes no difference, that it's much ado about nothing and so what's the big deal. Fyi, I could tell you more, like about the English word "church" on its self, and about its actual pagan origins, but this is will be overstepping the scope of the thread's title heading, lol. Maybe another thread, another time or another day, lol. Again, I am not the enemy, lol.

MuttleyLaff:
Smh. Instead of you to just suck it in, but no, you rather be hellbent on publicly displaying your ignorance and showing yourself up, erhn. Someone should try and put duct tape on your hands and fingers

So what, if that picture originally refers to "democracy"? Whether it refers to or doesnt refer to democracy, is irrelevant. What is relevant is its common denominator it shares with dodgy politicians and/or pastors. It portrays the picture that, it is you who gives these people (i.e. dodgy politicians and/or pastors) the power to enslave and subjugate you. It is the support you give them that keeps them in balance and/or power. Step back, one by one, away from the board plank, then wait to watch and see what happens to the dodgy politician(s) and/or pastor(s). What happens is the politician(s) and/or pastor(s), sooner or later tumble and fall over, lol

"⁴²So Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them (i.e. their high officials exercise authority over them.)
⁴³But among you it will be different Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant,"
- Mark 10:42-43

Yes nelsonoba, the church of Christ, is government of DEMOCRACY, and according to Jesus, in Mark 10:42-43 above when talking to the discples, it is a special and/or different kind of government of DEMOCRACY. Democracy, fyi, has biblical roots that you're unaware of, lol. Life, in the beginning, started on a democratic footing, lol. Also, I am sure you've heard it said that, democracy is a government of all the people, by all the people, for all the people, abi?

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, a small rock and upon the large rock I will build my congregation {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones},
and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against her."
- Matthew 16:18

I am sure you didnt know that Jesus was interested in democracy that much that He adopted the phraseology ekklesia, taken from the first known democracy in the world, lol, the Athenian democracy.

Ekklesia, meaning, a gathering of those called out and/or summoned ones, is the principal assembly, open to all male citizens as soon as they qualified for citizenship of ancient Athens. Ekklesia is an Athenian democracy feature that allowed all Athenian citizens to come together, regardless of class and so even the lowest social class of citizens to discuss civil matters and/or participate in democratic politics. Everyone was considered equal in the ekklesia and any citizen present could participate and share his ideas, opinions, and concerns." Incidentally, what Jesus in Mark 10:42-43 above, was teaching the disciples is what Theodore Parker captured perfectly well, with the quote, that: "Democracy means not, I am as good as you are, but you are as good as I am"

nelsonoba, Jesus changed the original political meaning of ekklesia to a religious one. Praise God. Alleluia. We are talking here, of radical and liberal democracy nelsonoba, lol, and that's where Galatians 3:26-28, Acts 4:42-47 and James 1:27 took their cue from, lol.

nelsonoba, let me clear you up properly on ekklesia, lol, so you'll know what is really going on with it. Maybe, you'll learn a thing or two, and would have become wiser and wise enough to make re-adjustments, where and/or if applicable, to your theology, lol.

To start with and as a matter of fact, "ekklesia" is the proper and correct noun word for used for believers, called out and/or gathered together, which the word "church", as it is, presently or currently represents.

"Ekklesia" actually, is a Greek word, which in Athens and in most Greek poleis (i.e. Greek cities or states) means an assembly of demo
(i.e. yes, demo, is the Greek word for people, as like the "demo" in democracy) So "ekklesia" effectively, is an assembly of summoned free people or a gathering of those summoned. The word "ekklesia", is derived from "ekkletos" meaning summoned and "ekkaleom" meaning to summon or call out. "Ekkletoi" refers to the called-out inhabitants or citizens of Athens or any of the Greek poleis, come together in a single place and/or single group, as a result of a call out request done by a herald, announcer or town crier.

"Ekklesia" an assembly, congregation, the whole body of believers, come together, as a result of a call out request done by our Lord Jesus Christ and not some church or something anyone starts, because as I previously typed, ekklesia is a family we belong to.

The true meaning, import or connotation of "ekklesia" is lost or eroded when it is used or translated to/as "church", as "ekklesia" represents something totally different to what we've commonly perceived what "church" is.

"Ekklesia," as far back in the Old Testament wilderness days, has always been an assembly or congregation of called-out people (i.e. Acts 7:38 is referring to the congregation in Deuteronomy 9:10) and it's no different in the original Greek New Testament whether used in non-secular and secular settings (i.e. Matthew 16:18 and Acts 7:38 for non-secular then Acts 19:32, 39 and 41 for secular) Notice in Acts 19:32, 39 and 41, that "ekklesia" is used three times, for people not connected with religious or believers matters, but are assembling or gathering together.

So the point is that "ekklesia" isn't about physical structures, buildings, cathedrals etcetera, and the Greeks, the originators of the word, never referred "ekklesia", to be church, building or place of worship.

I am sure nelsonoba, you'll return here to say, all this etymology stuff on "ekklesia", is bunkum and time wasting, it's nitpicking over minute details, and that it's pedantic and fault-finding or you, even might say, church or ekklesia, whatever the noun used, it doesn't matter. Well if you do nelsonoba, that will be you delighting in ignorance(s), with saying, church or ekklesia, it makes no difference, that it's much ado about nothing and so what's the big deal. Fyi, I could tell you more, like about the English word "church" on its self, and about its actual pagan origins, but this is will be overstepping the scope of the thread's title heading, lol. Maybe another thread, another time or another day, lol. Again, I am not the enemy, lol.

So because of my case you went to do this PhD thesis on "ekklesia"

So you know all these things you wrote here, yet you don't know Christ?? Such an irony..........

If only you had heard about the thing called "The Kingdom of God", it would have solved all your problems because you will know that all kingdoms are ruled by Kings and other appointed people! God's kingdom is not a democracy! I know this is hard bone for babes (nepilles) like you, but when you begin to come into spiritual maturity you will understand it. For now, what you need is just to accept Christ as your Lord and begin to follow him

nelsonoba:
So because of my case you went to do this PhD thesis on "ekklesia"

Your problem nelsonoba is you think too highly of yourself. Use the string "MuttleyLaff ekklesia" without the inverted commas and do a search in the Religion forum, to find out if it was because of your case I put ekklesia on the table. Don't even bother, just click on below link, to see how far from the truth, by a factor of 100, you are.
[url]https://www.nairaland.com/search?q=%22muttleylaff+ekklesia%22&board=0[/url]

nelsonoba:
So you know all these things you wrote here, yet you don't know Christ?? Such an irony..........

You cant say its my fault, if you stick your fingers into your ears and not want to listen to me repeatedly saying I am not the enemy, lol

nelsonoba:
If only you had heard about the thing called "The Kingdom of God", it would have solved all your problems because you will know that all kingdoms are ruled by Kings and other appointed people! God's kingdom is not a democracy! I know this is hard bone for babes (nepilles) like you, but when you begin to come into spiritual maturity you will understand it. For now, what you need is just to accept Christ as your Lord and begin to follow him

If only you've heard about the thing called "The Kingdom of God" associated with radical and liberal democracy lol. I am sure you didnt know that Jesus was interested in democracy that much that He adopted the phraseology ekklesia, taken from the first known democracy in the world, lol, the Athenian democracy bwahahaha.

MuttleyLaff:
Your problem nelsonoba is you think too highly of yourself. Use the string "MuttleyLaff ekklesia" without the inverted commas and do a search in the Religion forum, to find out if it was because of your case I put ekklesia on the table. Don't even bother, just click on below link, to see how far from the truth, by a factor of 100, you are.
[url]https://www.nairaland.com/search?q=%22muttleylaff+ekklesia%22&board=0[/url]

You cant say its my fault ,if you stick your fingers into your ears and not want to listen to me repeatedly saying I am not the enemy, lol

If only you've heard about the thing called "The Kingdom of God" associated with radical and liberal democracy lol. I am sure you didnt know that Jesus was interested in democracy that much that He adopted the phraseology ekklesia, taken from the first known democracy in the world, lol, the Athenian democracy bwahahaha.

But who did this thing to @MuttleyLaff

I think I need to start praying for you, because this is not normal. For a so-called christian to be arguing that the kingdom of God is a democracy and Jesus adopted democracy from Athens either means that person is really not a Christian or they have had their mind blinded by the god of this world to the point that they can't even see the basic truth that Jesus is King and his kingdom does not depend on democracy.

***Jesus adopted democracy from the Athenians .....if only this guy knew who Jesus is, he would have known that both democracy and the Athenians were all created by Jesus, and as such Jesus does not need to learn or adopt any democracy from Athens***