I wanted to post a reply earlier on but kept feeling that some one would post something less controversial than I was intending on posting but as no one has obliged you, here goes:

I don't believe there was ever a time that Oracle had a demand in the Labour Market. What bhappened was that some of the telecom operators that where actually using Oracle felt that to reduce running costs, they needed to get Database engineers to handle the DB layer of their telecom structure. So OCAs were recruited for these positions. You should note that very little experience was required for any of these positions. All that was required was for you to have OCA or OCP. Most times having OCP meant very little difference( whereas in a ideal situation, the OCP would be the head engineer or something, you can still find OCPs as Junior Engineers).
Then this is the funny part, All sorts of companies such as Hospitals, banks, Stock broking houses and Bureau de change shops seeing that telecom operators were employing OCAs and OCPs, started recruiting them as well even though they never had even heard or used Oracle ( in the case of many hospitals, stockbroking houses and bureau de change) or were never directly maintaining the DB due to security concerns ( as was the case in many banks). So this created the fake recruitment drive and currently the market is saturated.
No one is recruiting for a position they rarely will ever need, the money is simply not there! Oracle really never had any relevance in the Nigerian IT Sector

Heck, even I have an OCP but I probably can not administer an Oracle DB and I rarely maintain an Oracle DB ( my main core position is more programming, Software maintenance) whereas some of my foreign colleague have never attended a single OCA course in their lives and yet they can and do install, maintain and administer whole Oracle installations on Telecom operator sites.

As for being a programmer, well this is a bit common sense. Its a bit like saying that it is better to be a neuro surgeon than a pharmacist but 'surgery is not a beans', neither is programming. I don't really believe that we need Hardcore programmers like that, when you say Programmer I am guessing that what you really mean is someone very comfortable with SQL commands ( there are many types of Oracle/DB programming), I would say Yes. That is a better place to be than an OCA as I can bet most OCAs have never really managed an installation of even SQLite talkless of Oracle.

I once went for an interview once for a programming position. 40% of the questions were on Oracle and Unix,RAID, 40% were on Service management, SLA and ITIL , the remaining 20% were on Telecom. I never got asked a single programming question. So in Telecom , Oracle will never lose its relevance as is the same around the world. In most of the other sectors in Nigeria, I don't think it ever had any relevance.

I posted a longer reply but that got flagged as spam and my post was not re-instated after my posting rights had been re-instated.

My view, in short was, Oracle was never really relevant outside telecom and it is not relevant now as most non-telecom companies are beginning to find new ways of reducing cost.

And yes, programming is 'not a beans'.

are people still doing OCP.

programmers are finding ways of getting around the obvious limitations of databases these days

candylips:

are people still doing OCP.

programmers are finding ways of getting around the [b]obvious limitations [/b]of databases these days

Forgive me for my ignorance, but I am going to ask what are the obvious limitations you specified in your quote?

scaling a database is very hard.

its so hard that folks like google and facebook had to come up with a new way for storing/retrieving perabytes of data.

Really? does this mean it's a TOTAL wast of time and money going to study "oracle"? does this ,mean there're no real opportunities out there for OCP's anymore, anyways, keep your views coming and besides I don't see any OCP dropping a comment, ?

babyface12:

Really? does this mean it's a TOTAL wast of time and money going to study "oracle"? does this ,mean there're no real opportunities out there for OCP's anymore, anyways, keep your views coming and besides I don't see any OCP dropping a comment, ?

babyface12:

Oracle, oracle, oracle!!, how relevant is this course in recent times, as I've heard, even  OCP holders have to struggle to get a Job in the  IT sector, the saying goes "you better off a Programmer than a mere DBA/P",  how true bis this? is database losing it's relevance in the Nigerian IT sector,if "YES/NO" please back it up with factual instances thanks

No it is not a waste. Never has been and never will be. Who ever told you that is deceiving you. I've been in this for a long time and i definitely know what i am saying. In Nigeria, we put a lot of emphasis on certifications. The problem is that having OCP alone without hands-on and i mean hands-on experience is no good. To go with your OCP, you definitely do need some good experience. The next question is how do you get experience without a job. Simple.
Practice on your own. By owning a simple laptop, one can go a long way to getting the required experience. Even at a job you will never put all that your OCP exam covers to use. Yes it is true. Hope this helps.

another issue is that companies tend to need only a finite number of DBAs and the work of DBAs are getting redundant this days

reason why i say this is that tools are making it easier to administer DB's without the need for a fulltime DBA

i'll advise u to go and learn a programming language and do oracle by d way side

candylips:

another issue is that companies tend to need only a finite number of DBAs and the work of DBAs are getting redundant this days

reason why i say this is that tools are making it easier to administer DB's without the need for a fulltime DBA

i'll advise u to go and learn a programming language and do oracle by d way side

Damn where do you guys get your information from? Check major job sites and see how many positions are there daily for Oracle DBAs'. There are so many positions ut there that go unfilled. The issue is one requires experience and without it, OCP alone will do one no good. You mention tools, you need DBAs to use those tools.

@candylips I remember this one time, a friend of mine, who went for an interview, that requested for DBAs, he was asked "can you code?" his response;", mmmhhh, ", and that was the end of the interview for him, I believe codding should be a skill meant for programmers only, Y ask a question as such in an interview for recruiting  DBAs??

babyface12:

@candylips I remember this one time a friend of mine, who went for an interview, that requested for DBAs, he was asked "can you code?" his response;", mmmhhh, ", and that was the end of the interview for him, I believe codding should be a skill meant for a programmers only, Y ask a question as such in an interview for recruiting DBAs??

Look just like in any trade, you need to know what you're getting into. You guys need to make research on the job profile of a typical DBA. There are many types of DBA. In one of my earlier posts, i believed i explained the different types of a DBA. Search for some of my earlier posts and you will find it. There is the Development Dba, Systems DBA, Core DBA, Apps DBA, Production DBA and what is now known in the DBA world as DBA 2.0 among many others. I really dont have the time here to go into each one of these. Google these online and you will know the distinction in each one.
Most employers dont even know the difference. So if your friend went for an interview and he was asked if he can code, it simply means he is being employed as a Development DBA and not necessarily that he is going to be doing some programming. And now that depends on the shop again. In this case my guess is the employer wants someone who can assist the programmers or developers in a development environment. And to do that well you need some good knowledge of coding to be able to troubleshoot and tune codes written by the programmers.

@Azum, well said, what's the title for that ealier post of your's? would love to take a look, cos all I see here after my search is "Oracle DBA Corner" trend and the way u've been assisting fellow DBA's related trends,

babyface12:

@Azum, well said, what's the title for that ealier post of your's? would love to take a look, cos all I see here after my search is "Oracle DBA Corner" trend and the way u've been assisting fellow DBA's related trends,

Unfortunately i cant remember now. Its being a long time. But it is there somewhere in the "Oracle DBA Corner".

azum:

Damn where do you guys get your information from? Check major job sites and see how many positions are there daily for Oracle DBAs'. There are so many positions ut there that go unfilled. The issue is one requires experience and without it, OCP alone will do one no good. You mention tools, you need DBAs to use those tools.

am not saying there are no available jobs on the internet for DBA's all am saying is that the job of DBA's is becoming redundant.
the latest generation tools are so easy to use that a simple documentation read will get u started and you will be able to for example tune a DB, partition etc.

These are things that used to require expert knowledge.

i do agree with u that he needs experience plus OCP to even think of finding a DBA job. The only DBA jobs u are gonna see if for experienced folks unlike 5- 10 yrs ago

Oracle knowledge is not very relevant anywhere anymore. SQL Server pointed the way forward long ago, MySql (free) is more popular though.
I'll advice that you learn SQL Server for enterprise knowledge or if you are interested mundane "carpentery," then MySql will do (not to say some massive systems haven't been built with MySql, it just lacks too many bits).

No point learning how to tame a gorilla to keep in your backyard when there are zoo's around.

Well everyone to his own. Here is someone talking about SQLServer and MySQL when it is a known fact that over 75% of largest companies in the world run on Oracle Database. And MYSQL? Do you know Oracle Corp owns it now as an add-on since it just bought SUN?

", you definitely do need some good experience. The next question is how do you get experience without a job. Simple.
Practice on your own. By owning a simple laptop, one can go a long way to getting the required experience. Even at a job you will never put all that your OCP exam covers to use. Yes it is true. Hope this helps."

@azum but how would your employer be  impressed with the fact that you got your experience from "Home Practice".in my opinion, it won't matter, after all, "home practice" can't be included under the "Experience" column of any CV to back-up the fact that you've got experience to go with your OCP Cert. can it? my question here is, how does practicing at home help with "employment" apart from the fact that it builds and solidifies your personal skills

babyface12:

", you definitely do need some good experience. The next question is how do you get experience without a job. Simple.
Practice on your own. By owning a simple laptop, one can go a long way to getting the required experience. Even at a job you will never put all that your OCP exam covers to use. Yes it is true. Hope this helps."

@azum but how would your employer be  impressed with the fact that you got your experience from "Home Practice".in my opinion, it won't matter, after all, "home practice" can't be included under the "Experience" column of any CV to back-up the fact that you've got experience to go with your OCP Cert. can it? my question here is, how does practicing at home help with "employment" apart from the fact that it builds and solidifies your personal skills

Simple. A lot of questions you face at Oracle DBA interviews require that you've dont it to be able to answer it. These are not choice questions. let me give you a vivid example, there is a whole world of difference in the installation of Oracle 11g Release 1 and Oracle 11g Release 2. I doubt if there is any book out there that cover the little details. Even if there is, the way someone who has only read about it anwers questions on such will definitely defer from the way someone who has actually installed both installation will answer the same question. Trust me i know what i am talking about. When ASM was introduced with Oracle 10g, my first experience of using it was done on my laptop where i had to simulate raw devices. This was even before i had the opportunity of doing it in a real life environment. This in fact gave me the confidence such that when i finally had to do it, i had the basic hands-on of how it works.
Once you got shortlisted for an interview, the major hurdle is gone. What remains is your ability to prove to the interviewer you can actually do the job. Even at that for greenhorn DBA's, look to start with a small IT company rather than looking to start with a big bank or big company. That way you can learn to crawl before you learn to run DBA speaking. And believe me, cant say about Nigeria since its being long i since worked there, but in major companies worldwide, DBA jobs are segregated. Each DBA has a specific assigned tasks to do. So imagine in a situation where as a DBA all you do is managing and ensuring backups are run, how do you get up to skill in skillsets like performance tuning, high availability etc. Now you get my gist?

azum:

Well everyone to his own. Here is someone talking about SQLServer and MySQL when it is a known fact that over 75% of largest companies in the world run on Oracle Database. And MYSQL? Do you know Oracle Corp owns it now as an add-on since it just bought SUN?

I challenge you to provide a source for false 75% figure.
MySql is not the same as Oracle db, simply because Sun was bought. It is still MySql.

At its peak in 2005, Oracle was estimated to have 41% market share in the database market; http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=159401656
The new kid on the block SQL Server, had aqcuired 13% and IBM stood at 31% at Oracles peak in 2005. So where did your 75% come from?

Since 2005, Oracles share has declined mainly because it doesn't require a PhD and all sorts of expensive support lisencing to get simple jobs done on the likes of SQL Server. Also, huge Oracle clients like SAP AG have since swung over to SQL server; you will find that most systems running on Oracle are in the region of a decade old (hence Oracle saw the need to acquire MySql for customer base). The Oracle of old has lost the fight.

Gartner Report for 2006:

http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=507466

http://www.bukisa.com/articles/143366_gartner-rdbms-market-share

By the way, what i said was that 75% of the largest companies in the world run on Oracle RDBMS.

azum:

Simple. A lot of questions you face at Oracle DBA interviews require that you've dont it to be able to answer it. These are not choice questions. let me give you a vivid example, there is a whole world of difference in the installation of Oracle 11g Release 1 and Oracle 11g Release 2. I doubt if there is any book out there that cover the little details. Even if there is, the way someone who has only read about it anwers questions on such will definitely defer from the way someone who has actually installed both installation will answer the same question. Trust me i know what i am talking about. When ASM was introduced with Oracle 10g, my first experience of using it was done on my laptop where i had to simulate raw devices. This was even before i had the opportunity of doing it in a real life environment. This in fact gave me the confidence such that when i finally had to do it, i had the basic hands-on of how it works.
Once you got shortlisted for an interview, the major hurdle is gone. What remains is your ability to prove to the interviewer you can actually do the job. Even at that for greenhorn DBA's, look to start with a small IT company rather than looking to start with a big bank or big company. That way you can learn to crawl before you learn to run DBA speaking. And believe me, cant say about Nigeria since its being long i since worked there, but in major companies worldwide, DBA jobs are segregated. Each DBA has a specific assigned tasks to do. So imagine in a situation where as a DBA all you do is managing and ensuring backups are run, how do you get up to skill in skillsets like performance tuning, high availability etc.  Now you get my gist?

, yeah I believe I do, but my point still is; in naija "years of experience" is still a great criteria for getting shortlisted at all,and here I think database is actually losing it's grip,i.e "an employer here, would rather employ a programmer that can as well perform the task of a DBA, in other to save cost for employing them both" then if I may ask, I've a feeling u've got "IT" qualifications,more than that of a mere DBA, I'm sure I'm right, right?

azum:

Gartner Report for 2006:

http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=507466

http://www.bukisa.com/articles/143366_gartner-rdbms-market-share

By the way, what i said was that 75% of the largest companies in the world run on Oracle RDBMS.

2006 is a very long time in this information age. So many thing have happened since Oracle peaked at 41% of market share in 2005. They have seen an exodus of clients to easier to use db's that are not only more secure, but easier to use by a factor of several magnitudes (eg SAP to SQL Server). Why pay for a system that makes its devs age fast when the same job can be accomplished in half the time and to better quality by systems that cost only a fraction?

There is no future for most making the mistake of jumping on the Oracle bandwagon these days, its better to get broader IT skills (or potentially go hungry).

Beaf:

2006 is a very long time in this information age. So many thing have happened since Oracle peaked at 41% of market share in 2005. They have seen an exodus of clients to easier to use db's that are not only more secure, but easier to use by a factor of several magnitudes (eg SAP to SQL Server). Why pay for a system that makes its devs age fast when the same job can be accomplished in half the time and to better quality by systems that cost only a fraction?
There is no future for most making the mistake of jumping on the Oracle bandwagon these days, its better to get broader IT skills (or potentially go hungry).

Look i am here to add my own quota to the development of Nigeria. Not to engage on baseless argument with you or whoever. And i showed you a Gartner report, and i do seriously hope you know who they are, of 2006 showing that then Oracle was 47.1% how can Oracle picked at 41% where the following year it was 47.1%? Common sense even though i know it is not common. Or did you not see the following sentences in the other link?

1. Gartner 2008 Worldwide RDBMS Market Share Reports 48.9% Share for Oracle (*)

Gartner 2008 Worldwide RDBMS Market Share Reports 48.9% Share for Oracle (*)
Gartner has published their market share numbers by operating system for 2008 based on total software revenues. According to Gartner, Oracle
Continues to be #1 overall with 48.9 per cent share

http://www.bukisa.com/articles/143366_gartner-rdbms-market-share

2. Gartner 2007 Worldwide RDBMS Market Share Reports 48.6% Share for Oracle (*)

You quoted 2005 report where you claimed Oracle peaked at 41%. Yet you went to claim 2006 is a very long time in this information age. I guess your 2005 is earlier than the 2006 report i quoted in your world.

Like i said i am here to share the little i know not to undertake in unnecessary argument. Believe what you can. The day you find out the truth it will set you true.

yeah I believe I do, but my point still is; in naija "years of experience" is still a great criteria for getting shortlisted at all,and here I think database is actually losing it's grip,i.e "an employer here, would rather employ a programmer that can as well perform the task of a DBA, in other to save cost for employing them both" then if I may ask, I've a feeling u've got "IT" qualifications,more than that of a mere DBA, I'm sure I'm right, right?

Everywhere in the world, there is no substitute for "years of experience". This is not limited to Nigeria alone. A lot of company go the way you mentioned to cut cost. So it is not peculiar to Nigeria alone. But believe me database can never lose its grip. Nothing can be far from the truth. You're saying this because it is becoming difficult for you to get a job. Dont be disappointed but keep at it. On the long run you wont regret being a DBA. Like i said in an earlier post, look to start with smaller companies and go from there. Being a DBA especially an Oracle DBA is not a day's job. It does not start and end with getting OCP. Its like building a house where after the foundation blocks are laid one after the other till the building is complete. But as a DBA, there is no end since it keeps evolving. I have been doing this for a long time and have no regrets whatsover.
And please dont believe the nonsense people say about Oracle RDBMS. For a long forseable future it is still going to be the #1 database worldwide because it keeps evolving. Do your on research.
To you last question, yeah i do have a background in Computer Science from U.I.

HBase

Chapelle.S:

HBase

that is d future of distributed data storage hbase , Bigtable and its variants.

@azum
I posted some stuff from information week, but the spambot gobbled it up.
However, you yourself have just posted figures that show no growth for Oracle since 2005. So whats your argument?

If its been hovering around 48% (by your figures) for the past few years, it simply backs my point that nobody is buying it anymore and the market for Oracle DBA's is saturated.
All I'm saying is that, it makes no sense becoming an Oracle DBA in todays World. Its the waste of a young life, its time misspent, thrown to the dogs, binned, trashed, donated to charity etc; better to learn more productive and rewarding stuff. Nobody should be adviced to dedicate their future to something that is slipping out of the mainstream and increasingly becoming a niche product.

Chapelle.S:

HBase

Very interesting, I had to look it up.
Damn it! There are so many of them in that class, and all open source. I'd always though the like's of Google would go in the direction of object databases, rather than unwind the relational model. Thanks for dropping that.

Beaf:

2006 is a very long time in this information age. So many thing have happened since Oracle peaked at 41% of market share in 2005. They have seen an exodus of clients to easier to use db's that are not only more secure, but easier to use by a factor of several magnitudes (eg SAP to SQL Server). Why pay for a system that makes its devs age fast when the same job can be accomplished in half the time and to better quality by systems that cost only a fraction?

There is no future for most making the mistake of jumping on the Oracle bandwagon these days, its better to get broader IT skills (or potentially go hungry).

You kinda sound like the literal meaning of your ID's name, y u come they "beaf" now?? "A saying goes, if na pure water u they sell, be the very best at it and I tell u, u'd leave a mark on History, long after you're gone, where ppl will say, "there lay the remains of the greatest pure water seller",my point: using the word "There is no future for most making the mistake of jumping on the Oracle bandwagon these days", sounds rather harsh, "Oracle DBA" may or may not be losing it's validity, nevertheless, I think if u're very good at what u do, there's always a bright future ahead of u.

Beaf:



@azum
I posted some stuff from information week, but the spambot gobbled it up.
However, you yourself have just posted figures that show no growth for Oracle since 2005. So whats your argument?

If its been hovering around 48% (by your figures) for the past few years, it simply backs my point that nobody is buying it anymore and the market for Oracle DBA's is saturated.
All I'm saying is that, it makes no sense becoming an Oracle DBA in todays World. Its the waste of a young life, its time misspent, thrown to the dogs, binned, trashed, donated to charity etc; better to learn more productive and rewarding stuff. Nobody should be adviced to dedicate their future to something that is slipping out of the mainstream and increasingly becoming a niche product.

, bros! if it was 41% in 2005 and 48% in 2007/8, would u call that a decline? and correct me if am wrong oo!!, the demand for oracle certificates where even higher in year 2005 wey the thing never increase to 48%, na logic now, it doesn't have to be 99% b4 it can be viewed as "progressing",

babyface12:


You kinda sound like the literal meaning of your ID's name, y u come they "beaf" now?? "A saying goes, if na pure water u they sell, be the very best at it and I tell u, u'd leave a mark on History, long after you're gone, where ppl will say, "there lay the remains of the greatest pure water seller",my point: using the word "There is no future for most making the mistake of jumping on the Oracle bandwagon these days", sounds rather harsh, "Oracle DBA" may or may not be losing it's validity, nevertheless, I think if u're very good at what u do, there's always a bright future ahead of u.

You asked for advice and I gave guru level advice. If you don't like it, hop on the bus. Nobody has their ambition set so low as to be compared with selling pure water.
Yesterday, punched cards were all the vogue, even though thats now prehistoric, there are still machines that use them. I wonder if you advice a loved one to learn how to programme punched cards, because they can be good "pure water sellers." Dude, the programming field is 100% logical and you will quickly find that there is no time for pure water analogies, its either it is or it aint. Black and white rules the roost, not some fairy tale World of pure water.

I did my first SAP/Oracle and SAP/SQL Server installastions more than ten years ago.

babyface12:

, bros! if it was 41% in 2005 and 48% in 2007/8, would u call that a decline? and correct me if am wrong oo!!, the demand for oracle certificates where even higher in year 2005 wey the thing never increase to 48%, na logic now, it doesn't have to be 99% b4 it can be viewed as "progressing",

Never mix statistics from different sources, it becomes voodoo. I said quite plainly that my source was Information Week, while azum's was Gartner. I don't do rewire and vulcaniser style talk. Please spare me and run along, if you see stagnated figures and call that progress, who is to argue with you? Especially when in the same period SQL Servers market share grew by a whopping 28%?

Please, lets raise intelligence levels, at least azum has some idea of what he is talking about. You don't.

Beaf:

You asked for advice and I gave guru level advice. If you don't like it, hop on the bus. Nobody has their ambition set so low as to be compared with selling pure water.
Yesterday, punched cards were all the vogue, even though thats now prehistoric, there are still machines that use them. I wonder if you advice a loved one to learn how to programme punched cards, because they can be good "pure water sellers." Dude, the programming field is 100% logical and you will quickly find that there is no time for pure water analogies, its either it is or it aint. Black and white rules the roost, not some fairy tale World of pure water.

I did my first SAP/Oracle and SAP/SQL Server installastions more than ten years ago.

Never mix statistics from different sources, it becomes voodoo. I said quite plainly that my source was Information Week, while azum's was Gartner. I don't do rewire and vulcaniser style talk. Please spare me and run along, if you see stagnated figures and call that progress, who is to argue with you? Especially when in the same period SQL Servers market share grew by a whopping 28%?

Please, lets raise intelligence levels, at least azum has some idea of what he is talking about. You don't.

OK, I get it, u're sarcastic by nature, plus u obviously missed my point,anyways it's so clear 2me u did intentionally, I posted this here for fellow nairalanders,  2benefit from, and really don't need to blow my trumpet to explain myself to you Mr "more than ten years ago", no offense, lol

at least azum has some idea of what he is talking about.

lol.