Kobojunkie:

Those two commandments were some of the only commandments that were given as a part of the Old, and the New covenant.

The greatest commandment(Shema)

Second greatest commandment

Acehart:
In fact, the new covenant includes the Ten Commandments. But it is written in our heart and the Spirit of Christ helps us to fulfill them naturally. What does the Ten Commandments say: Love the Lord your God will all your heart; and Love your neighbour as yourself - this is the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments can be broken in two halves - one’s relationship with God (Ex. 20:3-7) and one’s relationship with man (Ex. 20: 8-17). Moses Law isn’t in this form. It was a Law established for law breakers (1 Tim 1:9-10).

Exodus 20 vs 14
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14. “You shall not commit adultery.

Exodus 20 vs 14
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27. “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
28. But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
30. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Kobojunkie:


The essence of the 2 greatest commandments is that they cover all that is required of both the details found in the Old Covenant and the details found in the New Covenant. However, when you drill down to for more detail, you find that the 10 commandments were simply the first 10 commandments that were given to Moses of the 613 statutes/commandments that made up the Old Covenant.
As far as the New covenant is concerned, Jesus didn't simply transfer the old to the new. Below is a look at one difference between the two covenants

Old Testament rule on adultery...

...Jesus' new Covenant base rule as far as adultery is concerned.

Acehart:

Daniel 9:11 Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice; so the curse has been poured out on us, along with the oath which is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, for we have sinned against Him.

This is the clearest verse in the scriptures that shows that Israel knew of two laws - The Law of God and the Law of Moses. The Law of God was written by God Himself; while the Law of Moses was written by Moses. The Law of Moses are bound between Deuteronomy 4:48 and Deuteronomy 28:68.

Acehart:
We read in the New Testament about the nature of the Law of Moses - they guided Hebrew communal life and the mode of temple worship. The Law of Moses wasn’t applicable to all men - Jew and Gentile. The Law of God which you said men kept right from antiquity was for all men.

Acehart:
This is why Jesus never drew any of His teaching from the Law of Moses. Jesus said this is the original Law - no adultery. Now He emphasizes how a man can commit adultery. He didn’t give a new Law but showed the intent of the eighth commandment.

Kobojunkie:
I don't believe that to be the case at all.

Acehart:

Firstly, the Law of Moses was written by the hands of Moses (Deut. 31:9); while the Law of God was written by the finger of God Himself (Exodus 31:18).

God’s Law was commanded by God Himself on Mount Sinai (Deut. 4:13-14, 2 Kings 21:8. The Law of Moses was commanded by Moses (Deut. 31: 24-26, 2 Kings 21:8

God’s Law, the Ten Commandments, was audibly spoken by God to the hearing of all Israel; Exodus 19:9 says, “And the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I come to you in the thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you, and believe you forever.” “(NKJV). The Law of Moses was not spoken audibly to the hearing of all who were in Israel but to Moses, to whom the Law was given in private.(Exodus 21:1)

Acehart:
The Law of God was rewritten by God Himself (Jer. 31:33). The Book of the Law of Moses was rewritten by men (Deut. 17:18, Josh. 8:32).

Please, see why Jesus had to affirm the Law of God. The Mosaic law was however abolished: the tearing of the veil in the temple was key in the annulment of the Mosaic Law.

Jeremiah 31 vs 31-34
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
33. “In the future I will make this agreement with the people of Israel.” This message is from the Lord. “I will put my teachings in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
34. People will not have to teach their neighbors and relatives to know the Lord, because all people, from the least important to the most important, will know me.” This message is from the Lord. “I will forgive them for the evil things they did. I will not remember their sins.”

Kobojunkie:

I don't believe that was in reference to the old law

Acehart:
That is in reference to the everlasting Law.

Acehart:
You yourself said the Ten Commandments has always been observed by men before Moses.

Acehart:
If at that point in time it was given, wouldn’t it be termed the “New Covenant”, right?

Acehart:
Isn’t our New covenant in Christ established in a covenant in Abraham’s Faith - what then is “new” about it?

Acehart:
Though I say this, the old covenant can never be the New covenant; yet, our New covenant is of old because of Abraham. Old covenant says: So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them (Leviticus 18:5) - this was in reference to the Mosaic Law. The New covenant says, Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God.
[quote author=Acehart post=90248697]In the verse I quoted shows Paul referring to two Laws - one kept by the heart and the other by effort (do them). The former, the one kept by the heart, is what Jeremiah was referring to. Abraham kept the Ten Commandments but never kept the Law of Moses.

Kobojunkie:
The Old Covenant is everlasting!
No I didn't! I wouldn't say such a thing because, first, it is not true and second, there was no real definition for Sin before Moses.
At the time of the prophet Jeremiah, the Law of Moses was the established Law(1000s of years old), a reference to a new Covenant was just that, a pointer to a New Covenant, different from the existing one.
Huh?

Kobojunkie:
The Old Covenant is everlasting!
No I didn't! I wouldn't say such a thing because, first, it is not true and second, there was no real definition for Sin before Moses.
At the time of the prophet Jeremiah, the Law of Moses was the established Law(1000s of years old), a reference to a new Covenant was just that, a pointer to a New Covenant, different from the existing one.
Huh?

Myketuale:
As you can see nowadays rape is now the other of the day. You will see young and old men practicing it.
So here comes my question what is the Biblical punishment for people practicing rape.

Acehart:
I wish I could explain the following verses in details. My bedtime is past.

Romans 1 vs 18-20 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18. God shows his anger from heaven against all the evil and wrong things that people do. Their evil lives hide the truth they have.
19. This makes God angry because they have been shown what he is like. Yes, God has made it clear to them.

20. There are things about God that people cannot see—his eternal power and all that makes him God. But since the beginning of the world, those things have been easy for people to understand. They are made clear in what God has made. So people have no excuse for the evil they do.

Romans 2 vs 14-15(ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14. Those who are not Jews don’t have the law. But when they naturally do what the law commands without even knowing the law, then they are their own law. This is true even though they don’t have the written law.
15. They show that in their hearts they know what is right and wrong, the same as the law commands, and their consciences agree. Sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done wrong, and this makes them guilty. And sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done right, and this makes them not guilty.

Acehart:

In the second pair of verses, the Law Paul seems to be referring to is “The Law of God”. The first pair of verses reveal that since the creation of time, man has had the “source-code“ of God imprinted in his DNA. What does the Law of God say? Love God and Love your neighbor: This wasn’t the essence of the Mosaic Law. Love God and Love your neighbour is a summary of the Ten Commandments. This Law cannot be abolished.

Acehart:
You know that the Old Covenant was made for the Jews alone, right? The New Covenant was for all men: The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations will be blessed in you ."

Acehart:
I’d like to ask you this: When the Ten Commandments was spoken by God, did Israel have in their midst “the mixed multitude”?

Acehart:
Secondly, when Ezra read the Mosaic Law, who did he read it to?

1Sharon:


Your pastor disagrees tho..his favourite verse is malachi.

Acehart:


Ten Commandments: It was for a people whose heart did not understand righteousness. It was a law concerning righteousness. Moses Law on the other hand, was ceremonial in nature and it was a law concerning wickedness and sin.

Though men lived the Ten Commandments before it was given, it had to be given to people bereft of righteousness and the knowledge of a righteous God.

Myketuale:
As you can see nowadays rape is now the other of the day. You will see young and old men practicing it.
So here comes my question what is the Biblical punishment for people practicing rape.

Myketuale:
As you can see nowadays rape is now the other of the day. You will see young and old men practicing it.
So here comes my question what is the Biblical punishment for people practicing rape.

Kobojunkie:
The Old Covenant is everlasting!
No I didn't! I wouldn't say such a thing because, first, it is not true and second, there was no real definition for Sin before Moses.
At the time of the prophet Jeremiah, the Law of Moses was the established Law(1000s of years old), a reference to a new Covenant was just that, a pointer to a New Covenant, different from the existing one.
Huh?

Acehart:
Where is Mr Muttleylaff when I need him.

I wish I could explain the following verses in details. My bedtime is past.

Romans 1:19-20:

because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Romans 2:14-15:

For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

In the second pair of verses, the Law Paul seems to be referring to is “The Law of God”. The first pair of verses reveal that since the creation of time, man has had the “source-code“ of God imprinted in his DNA. What does the Law of God say? Love God and Love your neighbor: This wasn’t the essence of the Mosaic Law. Love God and Love your neighbour is a summary of the Ten Commandments. This Law cannot be abolished.

You know that the Old Covenant was made for the Jews alone, right? The New Covenant was for all men: The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations will be blessed in you ."

I’d like to ask you this: When the Ten Commandments was spoken by God, did Israel have in their midst “the mixed multitude”? Secondly, when Ezra read the Mosaic Law, who did he read it to?

Kobojunkie:
The Old Covenant is everlasting!
No I didn't! I wouldn't say such a thing because, first, it is not true and second, there was no real definition for Sin before Moses.
At the time of the prophet Jeremiah, the Law of Moses was the established Law (1000s of years old), a reference to a new Covenant was just that, a pointer to a New Covenant, different from the existing one.
Huh!

Acehart:
You are correct sin had no definition before Moses. However, there has always been a knowledge of good and evil before Moses. Only that the commandments gave sin a front sit - a definition and consciousness of it.

for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead..

Goshen360:
Brother, you're still shooting yourself in the feet....lol. If the 10 commandments was for people whose heart did not understand righteousness, now that you and me understand this righteousness, what then you need it, the 10 commandments for?

Moses law was never divided into ceremonial etc, it was given as whole one package. If you know a scripture that divided Moses law into ceremonial and other parts, bring it let's see.

Myketuale:
As you can see nowadays rape is now the other of the day. You will see young and old men practicing it.
So here comes my question what is the Biblical punishment for people practicing rape.

Maximus69:
Rape case in Bible times wasn't taken as serious as most people are taking it today!

Because the rapist is viewed as a psychopath that needs help NOT punishment!

So in Bible times, the rapist is given the list of items to pay so he could have the woman as his own wife, then the tension leading him into such a barbaric act is solved. But if the woman refuses to marry him then he must pay whatever cost the one marrying the virgin place on him or he is forced to labour until he can pay off the debt.

But when talking about RAPE, most people are biased on the matter, their assumption is that males are always the perpetrators while females are the victims. Whereas the Bible made mention of females seducing males for s3x, a woman got so much annoyed that she had to lie against a young man who denied her of casual s3x. Genesis 39:7-20

Please what would have happened if she had the strength to overpower the young man!

Goshen360:


Brother, you're still shooting yourself in the feet....lol. If the 10 commandments was for people whose heart did not understand righteousness, now that you and me understand this righteousness, what then you need it, the 10 commandments for?

Moses law was never divided into ceremonial etc, it was given as whole one package. If you know a scripture that divided Moses law into ceremonial and other parts, bring it let's see.

MuttleyLaff:


If a man meets a girl in the country who is engaged to be married and then rapes her, the man alone
—the one who had sexual relations with her—must die
As for the young lady, don’t do anything to her. The young lady did nothing worthy of death.
This case is similar to when a man attacks his countryman and kills him.
Since he found her in the country, the engaged girl may have cried out, but there was no one to rescue her.
“However, if a man meets a girl who isn’t engaged to be married, and he seizes her, rapes her, and is later found out, then the man who raped her must give 50 shekels of silver to the girl’s father.
Furthermore, he must marry her. Because he had violated her, he is to not divorce her as long as he lives

Deuteronomy 22:25b, was then, the law(s) of the land, as it is now, is what takes precedence and/or what is applied

MuttleyLaff:
The Biblical punishment, as it now stands, is you shall reap what you sow. Rapists will get their comeuppance in the end.

---

---

---

The first ever law given, was in the Eden and it was Genesis 2:17's "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it ..." It equally served as a covenant upon which when broken, means automatic eviction from Eden.

The law, from the very beginning was there and sin is transgression of this law. Going against this expressed law brought in death and/or cause death to enter man's world.

Every principle, law or covenant are everlasting. In the absence of a stronger, more powerful, superior principle, law or covenant, existing principles, laws or covenants remain relevant, but the moment something stronger, more powerful, superior comes on the scene they become redundant, impotent, useless, ineffective, emasculated, weakened

Naturally human being obey the law of gravity the states what goes up must come down, but with the realisation of the law of aerodynamics, human beings now defy the law of gravity and so turn to pretend they can fly in the air just as like birds do, lmao

Laws, commandments et cetera essentially at a rudimentary definition, simply are rules. Rules, are set of explicit or understood regulations one is expected to follow in regards to conduct or how you behave yourself in particular areas of activities. Adam and Eve in Eden were aware of what the rules were. Even Cain, outside Eden, was informed by God that he Cain knows what right there is to do (i.e. Genesis 4:6-7)

Acehart:


I had meant to say that the Law of Moses was ceremonial in nature. The Mosaic Law, is bound between Deuteronomy 4:48 and Deuteronomy 28:68; we see ordinances concerning prohibited food, divorce, tithes, cities of refuge, leprosy, first fruits, etc. It had in its edict laws that regulated the society: laws of food, of purity, of morality, and instructions on whom to install as a king when Israel demands for one. These reasons (especially the Laws regarding the feasts) are why I said they were ceremonial in nature.

The Law of God, The Ten Commandments, was placed inside the Ark of Covenant. (Exodus 40:20). Moses Law was placed outside the Ark of Covenant (Deut. 31:26).

You could search a good study Bible or any source you are comfortable with to see that the Law of God is the Ten Commandments.

Goshen360:


It is human beings that made such distinction by calling some ceremonial, moral and sacrificial laws because of the same way you're looking at those laws, that is, some deal with ceremonial, some dietary, some morals etc.

My point is, God never made such distinctions or categorization. The law when given to Moses all are law of God, because it was given to Moses to administer to Israel hence, it was called Mosaic law. There're many scriptures saying that the 10 commandments is part of the whole one package given to Moses but not one scripture saying it was they are categorized into this and that....it's true some are ceremonial and some dietary etc but when the Apostles debate in Acts, the debate for gentiles not to be under the law was a whole, not just some. So now, you as a Christian, when you don't commit adultery (one of the 10 commandments); that's not because the 10 commandments said so but because you have the Holy Spirit in you just like Joseph before the 10 commandments came. It is the Spirit guiding and teaching you now not the 10 commandments.

Exod. 24:12: “Then the LORD said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.”

Was this the whole of the law, or part of this? Of course it was all, that was 613 Commandments, not only 10. Here Moses is commissioned to teach them , this is why they are called Moses' law.

Deut. 31:26: “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;” The 10 commandments are included in chapter 5 of Deuteronomy.

Finally, we have discussed this topic too well too on this forum just like tithes. You don't need 10 commandments to guide you as a Christian, you now have the Holy Spirit in you guiding and teaching you beyond the codes of 10 commandments.

Kobojunkie:


Who preached to Abraham?
Highly likely because there were Laws that applied to foreigners( about 4 laws - The same that was repeated in the book of Acts by the apostles for all gentiles).
He read it both the remnants and the returned exiles of Israel.

SUPERPACK:
Then go and remove it from there. Or am I quoting from a textbook.

Maximus69:
The bolded is talking about a girl that has been engaged to a man already, this case is totally different, it means the rapist committed the act against three parties:
God who is the initiator of marriage arrangement, the husband of the virgin and the virgin herself, making the whole thing complicated so to resolve the whole mess the rapist must be exterminated!

Maximus69:
Jews believe that after the engagement the two are considered as married like Joseph and Mary were engaged when she got pregnant with Jesus!

Joseph taught she must have been sleeping with a man secretly that's why he decided to divorce her secretly, since it was just the engagement! Matthew 1:18-19

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]
What are you saying that's smearing in the mouth?

This a violation of purity, its pollution, its like as if pissing into clear waters or clean river, even Deuteronomy 22:26b says: "This case is just like one in which a man attacks his neighbour and murders him.[/I]" It is taking something without consent of the owner given. Death, then was meant to serve a very strong message that such despicable, irresponsible and wicked behaviour would be not tolerated, as it rightly should not. We now live in a age, where human beings are believed to have come off age enough to have the right sense and be able to restrain themselves from behaving with carrying through animalistic urges and/or unrestrained beastly instincts.

Marriage, by the way and incidentally, in one of the simplest of definitions, simply is, fundamentally a union or merger of two in a personal or somewhat relationship, symbiotic or non symbiotic.

My dear JW brother, please don't read any meaning into using the "[i]JW brother," there two things you have to consider in the issue about Mary who we all know, was betrothed to Joseph for marriage (i.e. engaged marriage between Mary and Joseph has being a mutual family agreement) and they are:
1/ There is no rape occurring between anyone in the case of Mary becoming impregrnated. Rape, by definition, is an act of forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with another person against their will and/or wish
2/ God is not man neither is He the son of man, and so therefore is not subjected to nor bound by, any part of Deuteronomy 22:25-29

Maximus69:


We are saying the same thing Sir!

The law says the rapist must marry the victim if she's not engaged to someone else, but in case she is the rapist must be killed. PERIOD!

Rozz:
even if it's against the victims(rape) wish?.