REAL BAPTISM - Baptism in the Holy Spirit

John 3: 1-8
"[b]There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.[/b]" (side note - notice how The Lord Jesus Christ de-emphasizes miracles and emphasizes was is important / absolutely necessary / The reason why HE came to this world),  continuing

The word “baptism” means “to be washed or cleansed.” This has nothing to do with physical baptism, i.e., being baptized with physical water. ("The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" 1 Peter 3:21).

Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is a spiritual event that only The LORD GOD / The Lord Jesus Christ can do, and does when one truly becomes born again (i.e., eternal washing away of sins). (Not when we want, but when GOD decides in HIS mercy to cleanse us ("For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9).

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:11-13

When we become born of GOD/ truly born again, it is The LORD GOD Who does the operation of washing us clean from sin in HIS sight - LET GOD BE MAGNIFIED!
"For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." Ezekiel 36:24-27 (Hebrews 10:22, 1 Peter 3:21)
The LORD is referring to HIS eternal church which is built on the Lord Jesus Christ, mighty GOD Himself…

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." Ephesians 5:25-27

Of course, per the Word of GOD, we're not to forbid water (physical) baptism (after one has received The great Holy Spirit) - "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" Acts 10:47, but it (physical water baptism), definitely does not save us from our sins/ wash us clean from sins. 

John the baptist clarifies his purpose for baptism and emphasizes the real important baptism by The Lord Jesus Christ unto salvation: that is, baptism by fire/water & Holy Spirit
"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water." John 1:29-31 
"And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God." John 1:32-34 
"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins" Mark 1:4 (Luke 3:3:, Acts 13:24)
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" Matthew 3:11 (Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16).
"For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." Acts 1:5

The apostle Paul's baptism - he de-emphasizes water baptism, & promotes, per The Lord Jesus Christ's command, preaching The true Word / Gospel of GOD:
"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." 1 Corinthians 1:12-17 
Thus, the emphasis is on preaching the Word of GOD, not ceremonial signs such as baptism (and circumcision) and any and all other works, because we cannot be saved by any works that we do, it is only by the unmerited, unearned grace of GOD in/ through The Lord Jesus Christ. "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17 - "Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved." Acts 11:14
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:18-20
"And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost." Acts 11:15-16 

The 3,000 in Acts (Acts 2:38-41), The Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:35-39) Lydia her family (Acts 16:14-15) & the jailer of Philippi (Acts 16:30-33) were baptized by The Blessed Holy Spirit. (though at least the eunuch with water afterward)

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God

Brilliant thread! This thread really puts a lot of things into clearer perspective, i recommend it to anyone truely seeking to understand the true biblical concept of salvation.

Jesus was so explicit when he told Nicodemus unless a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God.


Disecting these statement brings out two key phrases

1.Born of water

2.born of the spirit.

Taking the first phrase born of water,this simply refers to baptism.Jesus had no need for baptism but simply because he wanted to show us the way to followhe still had to be baptised.

Matthew 3:15-17 (King James Version)

15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Mark 16:16 -
,
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe
will be condemned.


From this quotation it is so explicit that there is no salvation without being baptised

Acts 22:15-17
15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. 16[b] And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.[/b]

this verse goes further to sow the role of baptism in the washing away of our sins

1 Peter 3:19-21
19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


This verse further reinforces the fact that water baptism is actually necessary for salvation .


37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, [b]what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

There was auniversal agreemnt amaong the early church fathers as to the necessity of baptism for salvation.

St Justin Matyr writing aroung the year 150CE has this to say

Through Christ we received new life and we consecrated ourselves to God. I will explain the way in which we did this. Those who believe what we teach is true and who give assurance of their ability to live according to that teaching are taught to ask God’s forgiveness for their sins by prayer and fasting and we pray and fast with them. We then lead them to a place where there is water and they are reborn in the same way as we were reborn; that is to say, they are washed in the water in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the whole universe, of our Savior Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit. This is done because Christ said: Unless you are born again you will not enter the kingdom of heaven, and it is impossible for anyone, having once been born, to re-enter his mother’s womb.
An explanation of how repentant sinners are to be freed from their sins is given through the prophet Isaiah in the words: Wash yourselves and be clean. Remove the evil from your souls; learn to do what is right. Be just to the orphan, vindicate the widow. Come, let us reason together, says the Lord. If your sins are like scarlet, I will make them white as wool; if they are like crimson, I will make them white as snow. But if you do not heed me, you shall be devoured by the sword. The mouth of the Lord has spoken.


The apostles taught us the reason for this ceremony of ours. Our first birth took place without our knowledge or consent because our parents came together, and we grew up in the midst of wickedness. So if we were not to remain children of necessity and ignorance, we needed a new birth of which we ourselves would be conscious, and which would be the result of our own free choice. We needed, too, to have our sins forgiven. This is why the name of God, the Father and Lord of the whole universe, is pronounced in the water over anyone who chooses to be born again and who has repented of his sins. The person who leads the candidate for baptism to the font calls upon God by this name alone, for God so far surpasses our powers of description that no one can really give a name to him. Anyone who dares to say that he can must be hopelessly insane.


This baptism is called “illumination” because of the mental enlightenment that is experienced by those who learn these things. The person receiving this enlightenment is also baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Spirit, who through the prophets foretold everything concerning Jesus.


St Ireneaus of lyons writing in 180 CE has this to say


"For as we are lepers in sin we are made clean from our old transgressions by means of sacred water and the invocation of the Lord. We are spiritually regenerated as new born babes just as the Lord has declared: 'Unless a man is born again through water and the Spirit, he will not enter into the Kingdom of God.'


St cyprian of carthage

"Unless a man has been baptized and born again he cannot attain unto the kingdom of God. In the Gospel according to John: 'unless a man is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.'" Cyprian (AD 250)

Shepherd of Hermas
"Before a man bears the name of the Son of God, he is dead. But when he receives the seal he lays aside his deadness and obtains life. The seal then is the water. They descend into the water dead and they arise alive." (AD 150)


I can go on but this should suffice for now

So we can conclude that to be baptised is to be born again and those that teach that born again is coming to the front of the church to pray with the pastor are liars. Doesn't baptism symbolize dying with christ and once again being born anew?

chukwudi44:


From this quotation it is so explicit that there is no salvation without being baptised
This verse further reinforces the fact that water baptism is actually necessary for salvation .

so that means if i don't get baptized i don't get born again
what if a man at the point of death in the hospital gets born again and die, his salvation will still not count?

what if a man at the point of death in the hospital gets born again and die, his salvation will still not count?

How can you say you are born again when you can't obey a simple injuction to get baptised ?

mabell:

so that means if i don't get baptized i don't get born again
what if a man at the point of death in the hospital gets born again and die, his salvation will still not count?

I wonder if there is no water in the hospital and the man is about to die. But sha, if there is no water in the hospital he is not the only one that will die, every patient will die too.

@Hischild

i dont have 2 respond 2 ur new thread.The explanations given in this thread will suffice.

Water baptism is important, but it does not save. If it did, Jesus would not have told the thief at the cross that he would be in Paradise, seeing that he wouldn't be baptized before death.

Even though I have a better answer for you, let me take an easy route. Do you have any proof that 'the good thief' wasn't baptized?

St Justin Matyr writing aroung the year 150CE has this to say

Through Christ we received new life and we consecrated ourselves to God. I will explain the way in which we did this. Those who believe what we teach is true and who give assurance of their ability to live according to that teaching are taught to ask God’s forgiveness for their sins by prayer and fasting and we pray and fast with them. We then lead them to a place where there is water and they are reborn in the same way as we were reborn; that is to say, they are washed in the water in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the whole universe, of our Savior Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit. This is done because Christ said: Unless you are born again you will not enter the kingdom of heaven, and it is impossible for anyone, having once been born, to re-enter his mother’s womb.
An explanation of how repentant sinners are to be freed from their sins is given through the prophet Isaiah in the words: Wash
yourselves and be clean. Remove the evil from your souls; learn to do what is right. Be just to the orphan, vindicate the widow. Come, let us reason together, says the Lord. If your sins are like scarlet, I will make them white as wool; if they are like crimson, I will make them white as snow. But if you do not heed me, you shall be devoured by the sword. The mouth of the Lord has spoken.

John the Baptise preached and baptise those tbat got repented that same day.
He didnt wait for some period of time to have a justification of if they have believed his teaches befor the baptising took place as the church today do. When one repented of his/her sin by giving up the sins. The church do not baptised immediately, they set a baptising lesson for the new repented souls, i think it is too long.
Someone that repented will ve to wait for so long to be justified by a pastor befor he under go the baptising i dont think this is right. It should be done as The bible explained it no? That is, repent today and get baptise today or not too long. How do u do it in ur church plz enlighten my church has a long method.
@Poster, may Gods bless u for a topic like this, it brings Growth in those in Christ.

@Pastor AIO
« #3 on: February 16, 2011, 09:53 AM »
So we can conclude that to be baptised is to be born again and those that teach that born again is coming to the front of the church to pray with the pastor are liars.  Doesn't baptism symbolize dying with christ and once again being born anew?

Yes to be baptise is to be born again. Those that come to front of the church are to repent and accept Jesus into their life.
We can repent through a tape or video preaching too.
But that instant repentant without baptism is not yet born again if we are to hold on to John 3:1-8

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. this is when one can say he is born again. Repent, baptise of the water and then of the spirit.

@plappville,

You don't realize you and the OP are saying different things, infact opposite.

@chukwudi44

I simple re-posted considering the importance of the subject.

@the christians; what tradition was it to baptize Jesus? The Jewish religion, if Jesus practiced it? The Jewish culture if has not religious underpinning? John's new religion, if there is anything like that [name that religion please]? Jesus's new religion with John as the first priest [name that religion since the christians say Jesus was not a christian]?

Is this tradition [baptism], new or an established one? if established already and John and Jesus just carried/continued/renewed it, then who established it first and was its first priest, and who was the first to be baptized before Jesus was baptized?

The first priest and the first to be baptized, when was the spiritual authority given to them and why, with explanation like circumcision as sign of Agreement from God on Abraham and his way of belief?


How is baptism in agreement with Abrahamic way in the above agreement from God?

if baptism does not have ny place in it [the way of Abraham that is], please know that the only view is that it is a deviation from the right way, the way of Abraham. In all the laws given to Moses, none of them is against the path that God gave Abraham. And there was no sign of any form of BAPTISM anywhere.

@His[Child, Servant, etc]: Who is the His in your stage name; Jesus or Holy Ghost or Jehovah? Please make your "HIS" known to us.
If its all of them, you need to not confuse us with bad grammar. It has to be "Their"{Child, Servant, etc].

And if you choose one of them, behold your deception is known to yourself, now.

And I am from the group that follows the one who is charged with CORRECTING each and every spiritual mistake, lie, incorrect position.

italo:

Even though I have a better answer for you, let me take an easy route. Do you have any proof that 'the good thief' wasn't baptized?

The proof is simple common sense that God gave to all of us. If you choose to believe that the Roman soldiers, after breaking the legs of the thieves, took them down before death and went looking for panic-stricken Christians who went into hiding to come and baptize the 'good thief' before death, that’s your call. I do not. More important, Jesus could have said: “You’ll be with me in paradise provided you get baptized.” He did not. Since the thief probably was not there in John 3 when Jesus mentioned the necessity of water for salvation, wouldn’t it have been better for Jesus to inform him of baptism, with a note that without it, there is no paradise?

Sweetnecta:

And I am from the group that follows the one who is charged with CORRECTING each and every spiritual mistake, lie, incorrect position.

please, the tradition of running round and round a black stone, like perambulator, as the late great Olufela Kuti would put it, who started that tradition and how does it fit in with Abraham.  And also stoning the devil.  

I'd like to know but please make your answer brief cos I don't want this thread to be derailed.

nlMediator:

The proof is simple common sense that God gave to all of us. If you choose to believe that the Roman soldiers, after breaking the legs of the thieves, took them down before death and went looking for panic-stricken Christians who went into hiding to come and baptize the 'good thief' before death, that’s your call. I do not. More important, Jesus could have said: “You’ll be with me in paradise provided you get baptized.” He did not. Since the thief probably was not there in John 3 when Jesus mentioned the necessity of water for salvation, wouldn’t it have been better for Jesus to inform him of baptism, with a note that without it, there is no paradise?

And as an adjunct can you tell me how come Jesus went that day to paradise? How does it fit into most christian theology that Jesus was in paradise that day and so was the good thief?

[Quote]« #18 on: Today at 12:51:44 PM »

Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 12:38:02 PM
And I am from the group that follows the one who is charged with CORRECTING each and every spiritual mistake, lie, incorrect position.

please, the tradition of running round and round a black stone, like perambulator, as the late great Olufela Kuti would put it, who started that tradition and how does it fit in with Abraham. And also stoning the devil.

I'd like to know but please make your answer brief cos I don't want this thread to be derailed.[/Quote]Thank you for asking about my religion. Mr Abofa, the tradition is from and started by Ibrahim [as]. So i hope you are smart enough to know that it is part of his tradition?

I hope someday, before you die, you will finally enter islam. The Ogboni do cut the tongue of their dead. I hope thats not what you want to happen to you?

italo:

@plappville,

You don't realize you and the OP are saying different things, infact opposite.

The poster wrotes,
The word “baptism” means “to be washed or cleansed.” This has nothing to do with physical baptism

Water baptism is physical done by a servant of God in the spirit.
That of the Holy Ghose is spiritual, It cannot be seen by people, but he that is been baptise can feel it.
The bible mentioning Water Baptism and then the Holy spirit to finish up.
After this event, we are Born again in Christ.

(Acts 2:36-38)
36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

First is to repent, then Baptism of the Water and then the Holy ghost baptise u.
and after comes the Gifts of the Holy spirit awaiting u.

nlMediator:

The proof is simple common sense that God gave to all of us. If you choose to believe that the Roman soldiers, after breaking the legs of the thieves, took them down before death and went looking for panic-stricken Christians who went into hiding to come and baptize the 'good thief' before death, that’s your call. I do not. More important, Jesus could have said: “You’ll be with me in paradise provided you get baptized.” He did not. Since the thief probably was not there in John 3 when Jesus mentioned the necessity of water for salvation, wouldn’t it have been better for Jesus to inform him of baptism, with a note that without it, there is no paradise?

Very sound post.

When does water stop being symbolic and start being H20
This is a very silly argument

Pastor AIO:

And as an adjunct can you tell me how come Jesus went that day to paradise? How does it fit into most christian theology that Jesus was in paradise that day and so was the good thief?

Good observation. I deliberately chose to avoid that issue. That's why I didn't use the word "today" that appears in that text. Going into that discussion would derail the thread, as it is hot topic among christians, including here. For what it's worth, there's a disagreement as to whether Jesus meant He'd be in paradise with the thief that day or some other day. But the temporal component does not change the fact that the thief would be in paradise without water baptism.

@ Sweetnecta

It was customary, pursuant to The Laws of GOD given to the nation of Israel for priests to ceremonially wash themselves before serving, particularly in the temple.  The priests came from the tribe of Levi.  The Lord JESUS CHRIST, The Almighty (Rev 1:7-, chose to come from the tribe of Judah.  HE was, is and always will forever be The High Priest (Heb_5:5-10, Heb_6:20, Heb_7:26). Thus, as a Priest (among many fine things), HE had to be washed, ceremonially.

"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." - Mat 3:13-17

The Lord GOD then established water baptism as a sign in the new testament churches (like The Lord's table, "holy communion", as a sign pointing to the fact that we (all human beings) need to have our sins washed away by HIS blood, by the word of GOD. (Rev 1:5  & Eph 5:26 ) in order to be reconciled back to GOD and dwell with HIM in the new Heavens and the new Earth (Isa_65:17, Isa_66:22, 2Pe_3:13), since the fall of man.

if this is the case, then Jesus should have gone through baptism, as many as he entered the temple.
what about John? after all he was a contemporary of Jesus.

i asked about how baptism came about, you gave me the reason to wash up.
is baptism washing up?

it is His that is making you tell us a different story because He {His} is a different God, different personality of a person?
Which one is acting on you, now; Jesus, The Holy Ghost or The Father, even though these 3 are 1?

Strange math.

nlMediator:

The proof is simple common sense that God gave to all of us. If you choose to believe that the Roman soldiers, after breaking the legs of the thieves, took them down before death and went looking for panic-stricken Christians who went into hiding to come and baptize the 'good thief' before death, that’s your call. I do not. More important, Jesus could have said: “You’ll be with me in paradise provided you get baptized.” He did not. Since the thief probably was not there in John 3 when Jesus mentioned the necessity of water for salvation, wouldn’t it have been better for Jesus to inform him of baptism, with a note that without it, there is no paradise?

5solas:

Very sound post.

You guys have still not given proof that the good thief wasn't baptized throughout nis lifetime. Couldn't he have been baptized before the cross? In which case Jesus would have no need to mention 'baptism' to him at the time.

Now I'm not saying categorically that he was baptized, I'm saying we have no way of knowing. And its good to shut up about things you don't know or at least not sound so certain about the uncertain.

nlMediator:

The proof is simple common sense that God gave to all of us. If you choose to believe that the Roman soldiers, after breaking the legs of the thieves, took them down before death and went looking for panic-stricken Christians who went into hiding to come and baptize the 'good thief' before death, that’s your call. I do not. More important, Jesus could have said: “You’ll be with me in paradise provided you get baptized.” He did not. Since the thief probably was not there in John 3 when Jesus mentioned the necessity of water for salvation, wouldn’t it have been better for Jesus to inform him of baptism, with a note that without it, there is no paradise?

5solas:

Very sound post.

You guys have still not given proof that the good thief wasn't baptized throughout nis lifetime. Couldn't he have been baptized before the cross? In which case Jesus would have no need to mention 'baptism' to him at the time.

Now I'm not saying categorically that he was baptized, I'm saying we have no way of knowing. And its good to shut up about things you don't know or at least not sound so certain about the uncertain.

Pastor AIO:

The Ogboni do cut the tongue of their dead. I hope thats not what you want to happen to you?

Why do they do that?

Kx:

Why do they do that?

Don't encourage him.

Have you ever been to the zoo and seen a sign: Don't Feed The Animals

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ olopele of opele, tell him how you people cut tongue and how you eat 'em.