[b]Would you, a Christian, tell a lie in order to save a soul?

Of course you would. That's because there is nothing worth more than a person's immortal soul, and you would certainly tell a lie to save someone from the eternal torture of hell. God would surely know your heart, He knows that your intentions were only for the best. Would He forgive you? Certainly.

Now, would I, an atheist, tell a lie to steer someone away from religion? No, I would not. There is nothing about someone else's intellectual integrity that is more important to me than my own ethical standards. Plus, my case is only made stronger by telling the truth-- I gain nothing by lying, and would set myself up for a great defeat should my lie be discovered. I don't need a lie. All I need is the truth.

Am I saying that all Christians are liars? Absolutely not. I have met some very honest ones. But I have met plenty of Christian liars. Being religious is no guarantee of morals.

Let's look at the root of Christianity: the bible. I don't accept the Bible as a moral guide because it sanctions lying and deception. In many cases, lying is commanded by God, or God himself makes people lie. In other cases, liars go unpunished, or are even rewarded.

"And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also; go forth and do so. Now therefore, behold the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these, thy prophets." (1 Kings 22:20-23)

"If the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet." (Ezek. 14:9)

"0 Lord, thou hast deceived me." (Jer. 20:7)

"Wilt thou [God] be altogether unto me as a liar?" (Jer. 15:18)

"God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie." (2 Thess. 2:11)

In regard to the forbidden fruit God said: "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Gen. 2:17) But the serpent said, "Ye shall not surely die." (3:4) Satan's statement proved true, God's statement proved untrue. So, according to the Bible, the first truth told to man was from the devil, and the first lie told to man was from God.

In speaking about the promised land, God says: "Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I aware to make you dwell therein, . . . and ye shall know my breach of promise." (Num. 14:30-34)

God commands Moses to deceive Pharaoh (Ex. 3:18), he rewards the midwives for their deception (Ex. 1:15-20), and instructs Samuel to deceive Saul (1 Sam. 16:2). "And the Lord said unto Samuel, . . . fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons. And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it he will kill me. And the Lord said, Take a heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord."

Would an all-powerful and honest God resort to using falsehood and deceit? Is this the example we should follow? We are told that the god of the bible can do no evil. But the God of the bible violates nearly every pledge he makes, breaks all of his own commandments, and instructs his children to do the same.

The heroes of the bible learned this habit of not telling the truth: they all follow God's example and instructions. Lying is practiced freely, without a thought to whether or not it is moral. Is this the evidence for making the case that the bible is a perfect moral guide? If not, why is it in the book?

Abraham tries to deceive Pharaoh and Abimelech (Gen. 12:13-19; 20:2); Sarah tries to deceive the Lord himself (Gen. 18:13-15). Abraham becomes the parent of a liar. Isaac said of Rebecca, his wife, "She is my sister." (Gen. 26:7) Rebecca in turn deceives her husband (Gen. 27:6-17). Jacob sustains the reputation of the family for lying. "And he came unto his father, and said, My father; and he said, Here am I; who art thou, my son? And Jacob said unto his father, I am Esau, thy first-born. . . . And he discerned him not, so he blessed him. And he said, Art thou my very son, Esau? And he said, I am." (Gen. 27:18-24)

Jacob's wives, Leah and Rachel, both lied when it served them. Leah deceived her husband (Gen. 29:25); Rachel deceived her father (Gen. 31:34-35). His twelve sons were all addicted to the same habit (Gen. 37; 42:7), and these liars became the founders of the twelve tribes of Israel, God's chosen people. David, Elisha, and Jeremiah, three of God's holiest men, were liars (1 Sam. 27:8-11; 2 Kings, 8:7-15; Jer. 38:24-27).

[The following passages are from The Bible, by John Remsburg, circa 1901.]

Speaking of the Hebrews and Bible writers prior to the Exile and the introduction of Persian ethics, Dr. Briggs says: “They seem to know nothing of the sin of speaking lies as such. What is the evidence from this silence? They were altogether unconscious of its sinfulness. The holiest men did not hesitate to lie, whenever they had a good object in view, and they showed no consciousness of sin in it. And the writers who tell of their lies are as innocent as they.”

The Ten Commandments do not forbid lying. The commandment 'Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor' forbids perjury; but mere lying is not forbidden. Christ taught in parables that he might deceive the people. "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them." (Mark 4:11-12).

Paul used deception and boasted of it. He says: "Being crafty, I caught you with guile." (2 Cor. 12:16) "Unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews." (1 Cor. 9:20) "I am made all things to all men." (1 Cor. 9:22) "For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also judged as a sinner?" (Rom. 3:7)

The primitive Christians, accepting the Bible as infallible authority, naturally regarded lying for God's glory not a vice but a virtue. Mosheim in his Ecclesiastical History says: "It was an established maxim with many Christians, that it was pardonable in an advocate for religion to avail himself of fraud and deception, if it were likely they might conduce toward the attainment of any considerable good."

Dean Milman, in his History of Christianity says: "It was admitted and avowed that to deceive into Christianity was so valuable a service as to hallow deceit itself."

Dr. Lardner says: "Christians of all sorts were guilty of this fraud."

Bishop Fell writes: "In the first ages of the church, so extensive was the license of forging, so credulous were the people in believing that the evidence of transactions was grievously obscured."

M. Daille, one of the most distinguished of French Protestants, says: "For a good end they made no scruple to forge whole books."

Dr. Gieseler says they "quieted their conscience respecting the forgery with the idea of their good intention."

Dr. Priestley says they "thought it innocent and commendable to lie for the sake of truth."

Scaliger says: "They distrusted the success of Christ's kingdom without the aid of lying."

That these admissions are true, that primitive Christianity was propagated chiefly by falsehood, is tacitly admitted by all Christians. They characterize as forgeries, or unworthy of credit, three-fourths of the early Christian writings.

The thirty-second chapter of the Twelfth Book of Eusebius's Evangelical Preparation bears this significant title: "How far it may be proper to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who require to be deceived." Bishop Heliodorus affirms that a "falsehood is a good thing when it aids the speaker and does no harm to the hearers." Synesius, another early Christian bishop, writes: "The people are desirous of being deceived; we cannot act otherwise with them." That is what most modern theologians think.

With Dr. Thomas Burnett, they believe that "Too much light is hurtful to weak eyes." That the methods employed in establishing the church are still used in perpetuating its power, a glance at the so-called Christian literature of the day will suffice to show. Read the works of our sectarian publishers, examine the volumes that compose our Sunday-school libraries, peruse our religious papers and periodicals, and you will see that age has but confirmed this habit formed in infancy. Every church dogma is a lie; and based upon lies, the church depends upon fraud for its support. The work of its ministers is not to discover and promulgate truths, but to invent and disseminate falsehoods. In the words of Isaiah, they well might say: "We have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves."

The church offers a premium on falsehood, and imposes a punishment for truthfulness. With a bribe in one hand and a club in the other, she has sought to prolong her sway. The allurements of the one and the fear of the other have filled the world with hypocrisy. In our halls of Congress, in the editorial sanctum, in the professor's chair, behind the counter, in the workshop, at the fireside, everywhere, we find men professing to believe what they know to be false, or wearing the seal of silence on their lips, while rank imposture stalks abroad and truth is trampled in the mire before them.

Every truth seeker is taunted and ridiculed; every truth teller persecuted and defamed; the scientist and philosopher are discouraged and opposed; the heretic and Infidel calumniated and maligned. In proof of this, witness the abuse heaped upon the Darwins and Huxleys, see the countless calumnies circulated against the Paines and Ingersolls.

I refuse to accept the Bible as a moral guide, because it sanctions cheating and the use of dishonest methods in obtaining wealth and power.

"And Jacob sod [boiled] pottage; and Esau came from the fields, and he was faint; and Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint. . . . And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright. And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die; and what profit shall this birthright do me? And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him; and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils; and he did eat and rose up and went away." (Gen. 25:29-34) This transaction, one of the lowest on record-- not giving food to Esau until he was on the point of death-- receives the sanction of the Bible. Where is the charity here? Where is the godliness? Any atheist would have given the man something to eat without asking anything in return.

Jacob, with God's assistance, by using striped rods, cheated Laban out of his cattle: "And it came to pass, whensoever the stronger cattle did conceive, that Jacob laid the rods before the eyes of the cattle in the gutters, that they might conceive among the rods. "When the cattle were feeble, he put them not in; so the feebler were Laban’s and the stronger Jacobs. And the man increased exceedingly, and had much cattle." (Gen. 30:41-43) "If he [Laban] said thus, The speckled shall be thy wages; then all the cattle bare speckled; and if he said thus, The ringstreaked shall be thy hire; then bare all the cattle ringstreaked, Thus God hath taken away the cattle of your father and given them to me." (31:8-9) Thus, by defrauding his uncle, his starving brother, and his blind and aged father, the biblical patriarch Jacob, beloved by God, reveals himself to be the prince of cheaters and the patron saint of thieves.

Now let's consider the following situation: Suppose your son worked for an employer, and that employer cheated him of his wages. Would you advise your son to borrow the company car from his employer and then not return it, in order to obtain compensation? Forgetting the fact that he would probably be caught by the police, is this what we teach our children as moral behavior, especially when we have the ability to be compensated by lawful means? Yet we find just such a story in the bible:

The Israelites steal the Egyptians' property by similar false pretenses. "And I [God] will give this people favor in the sight of the Egyptians; and it shall come to pass that when ye go, ye shall not go empty; but every woman shall borrow of her neighbor, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver and jewels of gold, and raiment; and ye shall put them upon your sons and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil [rob] the Egyptians." (Ex. 3:21-22). "And the Lord said unto Moses, . . Speak now in the ears of the people, and let every man borrow of his neighbor, and every woman of her neighbor, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold." (Ex 11:1-2). "And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment; and the Lord gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required; and they spoiled the Egyptians." (Ex. 12:35,36). Here we see clearly that the acts of obtaining valuables under false pretenses and embezzlement are commended and assisted by God himself.

Some pious Christian or Jew might claim that the Egyptians had wronged the Israelites by enslaving them. If the Egyptians ever did enslave the Jews, then indeed it was wrong. But was the only way God could obtain justice for them through treachery and fraud? Instead of an honest God taking the Egyptian masters by the collar and saying: "You have gotten the labor from these men and women; pay them for it!", instead he encourages these slaves to lie and steal. Is this a perfect moral example? Is this what you would teach your children? I was always taught that two wrongs don't make a right.

In the Mosaic law we find the following perfect commandment: "Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself; thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it, or thou mayest sell it unto an alien." (Deut. 14:21) "Anything that dieth of itself" is diseased, plain and simple-- diseased flesh is poisonous. Would you feed diseased meat, from an animal that died by itself, to your children? Upon finding an animal dead in your yard, or in your field, would you take it home and make dinner for your family?

To authorize the sale of infected meat is immoral. Suppose that a family of good Christians had a hog die of some disease. What should they do with it? Eat it? No, their Bible told them this would be wrong. They should dress it nicely, take it into an adjoining neighborhood, and sell it to strangers. Is this right? The Bible says it is. With the widespread influence of a book instructing such lessons in dishonesty, what must be the inevitable result?

I refuse to accept the Bible as a moral guide because it sanctions theft and robbery. Its pages are filled with accounts of theft, and in many cases God planned them and shared in the spoils.

He instructs Moses to send a marauding expedition against the Midianites. They put the inhabitants to the sword, and return with 800,000 cattle. Of this booty God takes 800 head for himself and 8,000 head for his priests. The remainder he divides between the soldiers and citizens. They are so grateful to God for his assistance, that they give God a gift of 16,000 shekels of stolen gold (Numbers 31).

When Joshua sacked Jericho, "they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein; only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron they put into the treasury of the Lord." (Josh 6:19-24)

When he captured Ai, "the cattle and the spoils of that city Israel took for a prey unto themselves, according unto the word of the Lord which he commanded Joshua." (Josh 8:27)

Yahweh gets the spoils of Jericho, and Israel those of Ai. David, a modest shepherd lad, is placed under the tutelage of Yahweh only to become the cruelest robber of his time. On one occasion, purely for plunder, he despoiled three nations and "saved neither man nor woman alive to bring tidings to Gath, saying, Lest they should tell on us." (1 Sam. 27:8-12) What a shining example, and this from the royal ancestor of Jesus.

Jacob's wives, Leah and Rachel, were both thieves. Leah appropriated the property of her son; Rachel stole her father's jewels. Neither act was condemned in the bible.

"When thou comest into thy neighbor’s vineyard, then thou mayest eat grapes thy fill at thine own pleasure, but thou shalt not put any in thy vessel. "When thou comest into the standing corn of thy neighbor, then thou mayest pluck the ears with thine hand; but thou shalt not move a sickle unto thy neighbor’s standing corn." (Deut. 23:24-25) "Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry." (Proverbs 6: 30). Grand larceny is condemned, but petty larceny is commended.

Christ seemed to teach that we all should submit to robbery: "Of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again." (Luke 6:30). Jesus also instructed the apostles to take a colt and an ass without bothering to first get the owner's permission, resulting in the theft of the animals. (Matthew 21:2) Some have argued with me that they were to tell people that the animals were for the Lord, if anyone bothered to ask them. That's like telling your friends to go to the next block, and there you'll find a BMW. Take it and bring it back. If any body asks, just tell them it's for the pope. The point is, when the owner of the car walks outside, his car is gone. That is theft, plain and simple.

Jesus also broke the law by walking into someone's cornfield and stealing ears of corn on the Sabbath. (Mark 2:23) Is this the example we should follow?

Is the bible a good, clear and perfect moral example? To anyone who can still think for themselves, no, it is not.

[/b]

i think the ONLY thing you have shown is a simple lack of understanding of scripture.

this is not an attack on you by the way, just my observation.

MIZIEYA how on earth do you come to these naive conclusions.

My advice to you is this :

-Pick up a bible

-Pray that if there is a God he will reveal himself to you and grant you wisdom to understand his words

-Then read the New testament from John to Revelation.

I can assure you that after this exercise you will change your mind.

But there is really no point concocting baseless arguments that do little but create strife and lead to nowhere.

[color=#770077]Perhaps it is you who needs to 'pick up a bible'- you may have missed the biblical references I have used in this thread. Or maybe myopic vision is not relegated to eyes,
[/color]

myopic

you always use these big words, don't you?

well, big for me i guess.

just an observation

Mizieya, this one wey u dey like big things so, are u sure u're not tryin to make up for some small thing? Becos, the kind of arguements that you are expounding makes one to wonder from what perspective you've drawn your conclusions. You claim not to be religious, that in itself is a plus on your part, but then you keep shooting yourself in the feet by casting aspersions on the creator of this existence where you, I am afraid is just another passenger(like we all are).

The fact that christianity and other variations of global religious affiliations have derailed in their divine mission of spreading knowledge about the mysteries surrounding our very reason for existence on this earth does not mean that one should impugn the toga of deceit on the creator, whatever name he be called (although the ancients would tell you his name is Jehovah).

This all powerful being, responsible for the balancing of the delicate laws that govern the entire universe, even up to the metamorphosis of lesser creatures like the butterfly to the daily struggle for existence and survival of higher primates like man etc has a monopoly of knowledge that one cannot comprehend. An attempt at this after considering all things, led to one conclusion by a great king that once lived "Fear God and serve him".

If we believe that he created all things, it then becomes plausible that all things created were from him and are meant to be used for his purpose according to his infinite wisdom. It would interest you to know that the bible made references to some traits of our Lord which if viewed under human reasoning would be interpreted to mean evil, but mind you, the name of Jehovah means "Causes to become", whatever he wants to be, shall be, according to his power and glory.

Do you know that it was an angel of death that was responsible for the slaying of all firstborn son of Egypt prior to the exodus? Do you know that a spirit from the Lord was the one who overwhelmed king Saul to make an attempt on the life of David? Do you know that apocalyptic expectations are filled with perceived evil on mankind? The list goes on and on, A great prophet was instructed to marry a known harlot, a virgin girl was made to marry a heathen king, even Jesus had to render some people without a job by scattering their goods. Under normal circumstances, the lay man go say God no fit do these things, but he does even more becos na only him know why, no matter how we claim knowledge, our knowledge is limited by the very fact of our being human.

So if you want to call Jehovah a liar becos u wanna make cheap conversation on the net and make your nairaland thread extend in length, then I guess it's a free world, but mind you, be very careful that when it matters most, no be you dem go begin call liar.

And please, for my enlightenment, could you please tell me which of Jesus prophecy was a fallacy?

MIZIEYA:

You know- this is way too easy.

of course its way too easy cos i can see that most of your bible passages are just quotations which does not prove any point you are trying to make

.e.g Matt 7:7-8 "ask and it shall be given unto you" whats the false prophecy about that one? have you asked Him and He didn't give unto you? then perhaps you are asking for the wrong thing or in the wrong way. so a physical example, if you ask your father, or anybody for that matter for a gun to kill your mother, I'm very sure ou wont be obliged that request.

there are many more ways to reap your argument apart cos they hold no water. so i look forward to hearing the real reasons [b]YOU, not any website[/b]think Jesus a liar and a false prophet

Someone has finally said it. He is more than a liar. If someone comes out and say he is the devil's partner, I won't doubt it!

There is no God or Gods, they are a figment of the imagination of weak minded people.

Trying to argue which pretend God is the best or worst is laughable to say the least.

Whether it is the Bible, the Koran or Talmud, they are all works of fiction, silly books with absolutely no truth.

The quicker we reject religion in favour of common sense and free thinking the better

Arguing that my pretend person is better than your pretend person is stupid

[b]Aproko

Discussions, points of arguments, or views et al- always utilise references and are always contextual.For instance to discuss the judeo christian creation story(s) I would personally quote "[color=#990000]The bible does not give us one creation story but several of them; the one which happens to be featured in chapter one of Genesis appears to be the one which had the least vogue among common people, It was evidently produced in scholarly circles." - Professor E. Chiera ("They Wrote On Clay" - University Of Chicago Press). Or my heroine Merlin Stone (Authoress of "The Paradise Papers" 1976 and "Ancient Mirrors Of Womanhood (A Treasury Of Goddess and Heroine Lore Around The World" 1979/1990) who wrote on the same subject: "According to legends of Sumer and Babylon, women and men had been created simultaneously, in pairs- by the Goddess. But in the male religion it was of ultimate importance that the male was made first and in the image of his creator. Despite all that we know about the biological facts of birth, facts the levites certainly knew as well, we are assured that the male does not come from the female, but the female from the male. We may be reminded of the Indo-European Greek story of Athena being born from the head of Zeus, " I would also use the Torah as and when neccessary as I have done consistently since I made my Presence known to nairaland, to support why I disagree and have contempt for Christianity, its false god, fake subsubscribers to said false god as well as any person who affiliates with said religion and or peoples.

However, let none of The Readers delude themselves that should I use references from books, websites, quotes from miscellaneous sources such as actors, popstars, or the Canonists of the bible who I might add declared everything Christianity stood for was indeed a lie- you and the other ignormanuses would still remain unsatisfied because, you simply cannot refute anything I have written. And even when some one does attempt to disprove my words they themselves makes errors and fail to counter any verse from The Tanach that may have been used originally by me. Which I find quite interesting that for all the Readers 'knowledge' none of you have actually put any forward in any Thread I have created. That in itself is quite telling about you as men and women who claim to have an opinion or indeed knowledge,

Perhaps I should advise one and all that whenever a preacher - boors the audience- he or she quotes excerpts from the bible. No sermon is based on a whole chapter - just one or two verses that correspond and seemingly 'agree' with one another. Similiarly, in debates and discussions- protagonists quote excerpts that are in context with the argument as well as within the context of the chapter it is taken from - although Readers will note- the old testament as a whole is seemingly written by men on Acid.

If I had created this thread about islam- I'm quite positive that- you and others like you- ill-educated- would get on the bandwagon and denounce islam with verve and gusto or if I had posted one about The Chinese- how many would happily mention that the Chinese eat their foetuses- a fabrication unsurprisingly propagated by American Christians and is still alive and thriving in this day and age as part of Misinformation thats spoken of in the pulpit as well as outside of it.

Do me a favour- if you have anything to bring to this table then bring it- otherwise do as most of you do best: remain ignorant and formulate any excuse to attract my attention. I shall add to the request: try a formal education. Who knows you may present an MA in an actual accredited subject as opposed to the BA of BS you plebians keep propagating. Stop being ignorant- you give being black a Bad Name.[/b][/color]

Just adding my 2 cents, I think that religion (christianity) was the worst thing to happen to the contenent of Africa, also when it was introduced to black americans as slaves in the US, it was used as a tool to make the slaves comply with their master, they were told to be good slaves and when you die you will go to a land of milk and honey and their will be no more pain, all in the Name of God. Don't get me wrong i do believe in a higher power, we did not get here by accident, but who really knows the whole or real truth. We all can conger up our own version, but i think it is better to concentrate on what can "WE" do to help each other in the "Name of Humanity. Love peace and unity black people.

Redwoman

@ poster
thanks for ur opinion

but my bible never lies and the God that i serve isnt a liar

when it comes to the bible and God it depends on each person's understanding of their situation and the bible

Well, this will depend on whose God you are talking about. You have the Greek God, the Hindu God, the Chinese God, the Roman God and the God of the Negroid race (Black wolly hair deities). Ps 82 : 1 says that "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods."

Each of the Gods created beings in and after their own image and likeness.

Religion as lead us to believe that there is only one God , there are many Gods that why the bible says "you shall serve no other God by me" implying there is more than one God.

Whose God are we refering too here?

@ mizieya,

hey bro, cool down. if i wasn't swayed by your argument, then perhaps you should make me see reasons instead of insults!!!

the verse i pointed out was just an example of how your argument didn't seem to butress the point you were trying to make. you gave no practical examples of how you came to the conclusion that Matt 7:7-8 made jesus christ a liar, perhaps if you had you may have discovered that we are not as "ignoramus" as you think.

again, i haven't come across any book or scripture written by a certain man named jesus of nazareth or jesus christ, perhaps since you are more widely read and intelligent can you refer me to any website or published work where i can get the writings of jesus?

okay mr. intelligent, if there is no such book because jesus christ wrote no such thing, then what qualifies him as a liar? i need to know your yardstick.

MIZIEYA,

for someone who actually thought he had a relationship with knowledge, you should be slapping yourself dirty now.

whoever said the dictionary was bullocks !

bros, get a dictionary, look up the word "die".
u've proven how enlightened u are compared to the "idiots" that came up with the bible in writing !
they had far less words to tinker with yet, they made more sense than u can comprehend.

'charity begins at home',they say; try making a fool of yourself first, before u feed us with your farcical outbursts !

MIZIEYA:


Way tooooooo easy.

<winks>

yeah bro, you've wat tooooooooo easily avoided answering the question. so jesus did not exist _{though almost all historians and bilical scholars have refuted this theory}, how be it that someone who barely existed is a liar? he never existed, of course it follows that he would not have come in contact with any body, talk less of speaking to anybody or writing a book, so how can a never existent person be a liar?

i dare ask again, what is your yardstick?

and yes your mum is right, only this time a stupid conclusion is getting very sane replies!

ok mizeya,

i havent named any scholars, thats because i assume you are as intelligent as you want us to believe, so that means you already know the arguments for and against the existence of jesus, so this 'retard' here does not need to give you a list.

as for my lack of formal education, i have been through 2 formal institutions at graduate and post graduate level, so saying i have no formal education does make you a liar.

and yes mr. intelligent, we stupid ones still dont have your answer to the question on what makes jesus a liar when he didn't even exist.

my IQ is fine, perhaps i need to copy and paste other peoples opinions like you do to prove it.

any more insults for your home girl? you seem to take delight in insults.

The fool says in his heart, ''There is no God.'' They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
Psalm14:1.
This i think is the answer to the poster.

him that want to know the truth let him know.him that leaves the mortal and decide to pode on his legs,it is his choice the person is a fool.him that leaves the road and enter a bush is a madman.a choice is a choice and consquence is a consquence.
him that have a ear let him hear.
thank you

him that should ponde on the mortal instead choose to do it on his legs is a fool.him who see the road and enter the bush is a madman.choice is a choice and a consquence is aconsquence.some choice will not allow live to experience them.
him that have ear let him hear.
thank you

MIZIEYA:

[color=#770077][b]my home girl? That's somewhat presumptuous on your part.

why aint i your home girl?

MIZIEYA:

[color=#770077][b]my home girl? That's somewhat presumptuous on your part.

Hmmm Post grad huh- please - you have got to be kidding me. That's like a con artist telling me that she is not a 419er whilst trying to make me feel guilty for not giving them cash, via western union, or, and this is my favourite: invitation to the UK or America - or sponsorship to save imagined orphans.

i'm not kidding you.

MIZIEYA:

[color=#770077][b]
I've clearly more than indulged you by answering in detail your questions-

i guess i must have missed the post where you told me how a person that never existed can tell a lie my bad, probably due to my low IQ.

MIZIEYA:

[color=#770077][b]my home girl? That's somewhat presumptuous on your part.

Hmmm Post grad huh- please - you have got to be kidding me. That's like a con artist telling me that she is not a 419er whilst trying to make me feel guilty for not giving them cash, via western union, or, and this is my favourite: invitation to the UK or America - or sponsorship to save imagined orphans.

I've clearly more than indulged you by answering in detail your questions- if however you dislike my answers- then that's something you're going to have to live with. After all being stuck on stupid seems to be The Game for people with your low IQ. It is quite clear that - to all intents and purposes that a 'Higher Mentality' is simply nonexistent as demonstrated by you and a few others. So many Sheep- so little time,

It's not so much that I take delight in dishing out pain or indeed insults - Oh who am I kidding?

finally!!! you agree with me on something!!

MIZIEYA:

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It may seem to you and The Readers that I come across as a hateful, pompous, spoilt brat and thoroughly annoying person who thinks he is a know it all: I am.

on the contrary, you come across as someone just trying to make sense out of life, only you want people to see things the way you do, and that can't happen all of the time.