I have to clear some misconceptions totally overhauling here. @livingchrist had to create a a thread where he totally mislead alot of people and I am here to counter that..

After searching the Bible and couldn't find a single reference to the word trinity in the Bible. I will start from Jesus Christ the Messiah of the Jews.

We all know Jesus came for the Jews during his time. Also, there was no account where Jesus claimed he was God.

John 10:30 I and my father are one..
Let express that phrase with John 17:20 " "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one

- 23 I in them and you in me-so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me"

At the above statement, Jesus was never saying he was God or in God as trinity, rather they share same purpose. The purpose of God was to win souls for him, and since he shares same as God, we can say they are one. One ideas, one agenda one purpose.. vs 21: Jesus stated that let the world truly believe that you have sent me through his works.

From vs 25; 25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you e known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.” ( here Jesus was also emphasising on being in them. Those them are the Jews, he came for, us, so that we may have one purpose with him? Which to know God, but him has already known God but we don't. Just like everyother other preacher, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter knew God but still some didn't know God.

The Day and Hour Unknown

Mathew 24: 36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, f but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man..
If Jesus was God, how come he still emphasising on Only God knowing the time not even the holy spirit which are all one God? Trinity?

(John14:8-11)
Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves"( just as above, as he is in the father, one purpose, one agenda, the words he speak are from God, and not from him, he has no authority to make such words..)

At the end moment Jesus did not have same will as God( Jesus didn't want to die)

36Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”

39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

From verse 42 he went again to pray for the same prayer
42: He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”

The will of God was for Jesus to die, but Jesus did not want to die, however since he was serving God he had no option but to accept his fate. (here clearly states that God can never be a list, nor can the nature of God change. God cannot have two wills neither can God be Man. God is immortal and cannot change to be a man).

I will quote the Holy spirit when I get questions and comments.

My people perish due to lack of wisdom

so jesus is a prophet right?

Wee you keep quiet .

God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit, holy Trinity=One God.

NeoWanZaeed:
so jesus is a prophet right?

yes. Just as Moses, John the Baptist. We can clearly say that there was no other way to God if not through Moses, you have to obey the ten commandments and that is the only way to God..just as Jesus described, him as no other way, but believing in the words which comes out of his mouth, is the only way to God. But not believing in him as Jesus (as God).

Nuttella:
Wee you keep quiet .

God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit, holy Trinity=One God.

the holy spirit is an angel neither is the holy spirit God.

Isaiah 63:10-12
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? -

Exodus 23:20-23

Let me now express that here
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off. -
Remember, only the holy spirit will not forgive when angered. We can clearly see that the holy spirit is indeed an angel.

I would be glad to answer many questions as long you ask to learn.

Henrymorre:
yes. Just as Moses, John the Baptist. We can clearly say that there was no other way to God if not through Moses, you have to obey the ten commandments and that is the only way to God..just as Jesus described, him as no other way, but believing in the words which comes out of his mouth, is the only way to God. But not believing in him as Jesus (as God).

U get sense and u can clearly understand the bible. I have questions for u

Henrymorre:
the holy spirit is an angel neither is the holy spirit God.

Isaiah 63:10-12
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? -

Exodus 23:20-23

Let me now express that here
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off. -
Remember, only the holy spirit will not forgive when angered. We can clearly see that the holy spirit is indeed an angel.

Stop this heresy. Holy spirit is not an angel, holy spirit is the spirit of God.

One of the most convincing statements in the Bible about the Holy Spirit being God is found in Acts 5. When Ananias lied about the price of a piece of property, Peter said that Satan had filled Ananias’s heart to “lie to the Holy Spirit” (Acts 5:3) and concluded by saying that Ananias had “lied to God” (verse 4). Peter’s words equate the Holy Spirit with God; he spoke as if the Spirit and God were one and the same.

The three members of the Trinity show up, together yet distinct, at Jesus’ baptism. As Jesus comes up from the water, the Spirit descends on Him like a dove while the voice of the Father is heard from heaven saying that He is pleased with His beloved Son (Mark 1:10–11).

Finally, the Bible describes the Holy Spirit as a person, not a mere force. He can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). He has a will (1 Corinthians 12:4-7). He uses His mind to search the deep things of God (1 Corinthians 2:10). And He has fellowship with believers (2 Corinthians 13:14). Clearly, the Spirit is a person, just as the Father and the Son are persons.

Suit yourself Op.The words are clearly stated about who He was but people like you will keep denying the word.

It's like flogging a dead horse.

Nuttella:
Stop this heresy. Holy spirit is not an angel, holy spirit is the spirit of God.

One of the most convincing statements in the Bible about the Holy Spirit being God is found in Acts 5. When Ananias lied about the price of a piece of property, Peter said that Satan had filled Ananias’s heart to “lie to the Holy Spirit” (Acts 5:3) and concluded by saying that Ananias had “lied to God” (verse 4). Peter’s words equate the Holy Spirit with God; he spoke as if the Spirit and God were one and the same.

The three members of the Trinity show up, together yet distinct, at Jesus’ baptism. As Jesus comes up from the water, the Spirit descends on Him like a dove while the voice of the Father is heard from heaven saying that He is pleased with His beloved Son (Mark 1:10–11).

Finally, the Bible describes the Holy Spirit as a person, not a mere force. He can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). He has a will (1 Corinthians 12:4-7). He uses His mind to search the deep things of God (1 Corinthians 2:10). And He has fellowship with believers (2 Corinthians 13:14). Clearly, the Spirit is a person, just as the Father and the Son are persons.

at bolded, where you quoted Peter, if you lie to your pastor, have you not lied to God..for he who is with God, from what I qouted you, God said if he lies to the holy spirit he has been lied upon. A lie to a servant of God is a lie to God as they share same purpose. You need to understand Bible first before you type. I didn't even see where you said the Holy spirit is not a person. Meaning mortal.. can you prove that beyond any doubt please.

NeoWanZaeed:
U get sense and u can clearly understand the bible. I have questions for u

throw sir.

thorpido:
Suit yourself Op.The words are clearly stated about who He was but people like you will keep denying the word.

It's like flogging a dead horse.

he is the son of God, so are you also the son and daughter of God. As God so created the world, and loved what he created, his children where all fine in his sight..

Henrymorre:
throw sir.

Am a muslim but am very open. N0t here to judge but learn. . . . What can u say about the authentication of bible? Since protestants, pentecostal, catholic, jw has different bible. And as per logic, catholic was the 1st christian, they discovered bible and all. .y'all should use the same bible as catholic

Henrymorre:
he is the son of God, so are you also the son and daughter of God. As God so created the world, and loved what he created, his children where all fine in his sight..

Jesus is God that came in human form, if he was just a prophet, he would have come through a woman, without conception through the holyghost. that is why he said *before Abraham, I am" He has always been with God since the beginning of creation. He is God, same as the Holy spirit, they are all part of God=One God.

Nuttella:
Jesus is God that came in human form, if he was just a prophet, he would have come through a woman, without conception through the holyghost. that is why he said *before Abraham, I am" He has always been with God since the beginning of creation. He is God, same as the Holy spirit, they are all part of God=One God.

lol. No dear. You see before Abraham I was ( is the word of the God) remember John 1, in the beginning was the word and the word was God. The word here is the word of light, to believe in God, the only true God and detach away yourself from sin. Jesus was the word ( he preached the word, not hat he was God, but preached the word. that has been the same word God has preached through so many other prophets, like Moses, also through Abraham, Noah etc.) That word has been with God since the beginning of Adam and Eve.. the word is now Jesus because he was the final prophet.

Can The Nature of God change? Can you answer this?
Is God immortal?
Did Jesus and God have the same will during the last moment of Christ?

Henrymorre:
lol. No dear. You see before Abraham I was ( is the word of the God) remember John 1, in the beginning was the word and the word was God. The word here is the word of light, to believe in God, the only true God and detach away yourself from sin. Jesus was the word ( he preached the word, not hat he was God, but preached the word. that has been the same word God has preached through so many other prophets, like Moses, also through Abraham, Noah etc.) That word has been with God since the beginning of Adam and Eve.. the word is now Jesus because he was the final prophet.

Can The Nature of God change? Can you answer this?
Is God immortal?
Did Jesus and God have the same will during the last moment of Christ?

Jesus is the Word, now is the Word not from God? What are you even saying, you are confusing yourself. The word is God and God is the word, that is why his word must come to pass. Heaven and earth may pass away but his word will not pass away. Luke 21:33.

In John 1:1, In the Beginning was the word and the word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD. Jesus is the Word and Jesus is God.

NeoWanZaeed:
Am a muslim but am very open. N0t here to judge but learn. . . . What can u say about the authentication of bible? Since protestants, pentecostal, catholic, jw has different bible. And as per logic, catholic was the 1st christian, they discovered bible and all. .y'all should use the same bible as catholic

Do Sunnis and Shias believe the same thing?

Nuttella:
Jesus is the Word, now is the Word not from God? What are you even saying, you are confusing yourself. The word is God and God is the word, that is why his word must come to pass. Heaven and earth may pass away but his word will not pass away. Luke 21:33

Jesus is never the word. Jesus the the way to reach the word of God.

(John14:8-11).
Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves" and here Jesus clearly stated that if you didn't believe he has same purpose as the father, how else? The word here, has been spoken by so many other prophets before Jesus. He speaks the word, which God gave him authority to. He is not the word, but a channel to the word. The word is God and not Jesus. You're the one confusing yourself

Nuttella:
Jesus is the Word, now is the Word not from God? What are you even saying, you are confusing yourself. The word is God and God is the word, that is why his word must come to pass. Heaven and earth may pass away but his word will not pass away. Luke 21:33.

In John 1:1, In the Beginning was the word and the word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD. Jesus is the Word and Jesus is God.

You are yet to answer my questions.
Can the nature of God change?
Is God immortal
Did Jesus and God have same will?

Nuttella:
Jesus is the Word, now is the Word not from God? What are you even saying, you are confusing yourself. The word is God and God is the word, that is why his word must come to pass. Heaven and earth may pass away but his word will not pass away. Luke 21:33.

In John 1:1, In the Beginning was the word and the word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD. Jesus is the Word and Jesus is God.

you just believe what your pastors tell you, and then you close your heart and refuse to learn..

Henrymorre:


You are yet to answer my questions.
Can the nature of God change?
Is God immortal
Did Jesus and God have same will?

I'm done with this unnecessary argument, believe whatever you want. The heresy I heard today from you is that the holy ghost is an angel. Be careful how you blasphem the holy spirit. The holy spirit is like a wind, the spirit of God and is not an angel, he comes in different forms, the spirit of God is God. Jesus is God, all of them make up the Godhead. Bye.

NeoWanZaeed:
Am a muslim but am very open. N0t here to judge but learn. . . . What can u say about the authentication of bible? Since protestants, pentecostal, catholic, jw has different bible. And as per logic, catholic was the 1st christian, they discovered bible and all. .y'all should use the same bible as catholic

we have alot of Bible's, different believe and that is why we have a lot of confusion in Christianity. The Bible may not be doctored, but the beliefs, are certainly not from the Bible. Just as humans believed Jesus was God, and you cannot find that in the Bible, yet they want you to believe what was never written in the Bible. The problem started when some people believe the Catholics worship Idols, like bowing to Mary etc. Praying to Mary for intercede on their behalfs, thus creating new Christianity from same Christianity.

Nuttella:
I'm done with this unnecessary argument, believe whatever you want. The heresy I heard today from you is that the holy ghost is an angel. Be careful how you blasphem the holy spirit. The holy spirit is like a wind, the spirit of God and is not an angel, he comes in different forms, the spirit of God is God. Jesus is God, all of them make up the Godhead. Bye.

lol. Ignorance is always a disease that can't be cured with less pride.. how can Jesus be God and still commit himself to Hand of God when he was dying? How can Jesus be God, and still told Satan that he should not tempt the God who created him. How can Satan tempt God? If Jesus is truly God, then we have no one God, we have 3 God's and when one is missing, there is never a God..think my dear.

thorpido:
Do Sunnis and Shias believe the same thing?

Root of islam is prophet muhammad. Sunni practises islam according to prophet and sahabahs. . seems u d0nt kn0w shia. . They are n0n muslims. They strayed fr0m the path of prophet muhammad thereby creating their own separate religion called shia. They do n0t believe in ALLAH, they do n0t believe in prophet muhammad, they call c0mpanions of prophet kafir. They have separate quran and hadith. They believe their leaders are god. The way they perform salat and adhan is different, they legalize prostitution, they believe ALI {one of the companions of the prophet} is ALLAH. They believe wife of the prophet did adultery, they do curse the companions of the prophet every friday, they are always trying to topple the government, they told him {ali} that he is Allah, when he was alive, he burnt them all. THE ENTIRE SYSTEM OF BELIEF OF SHIA has n0thing to do with islam

I read through your post and discovered the highlighted. This is where the wisdom comes in!

Jesus was prepared to do his father's will, he knew he's going to die, he related the experience of past prophets who were slaughtered for the sake of righteousness, he encouraged his followers to lay down their lives for the TRUTH, he told his followers several times that he will be the sacrifice that's going to remove sin, so he was fully prepared for the task but one thing that's making Jesus feel uncomfortable!

Being killed as a criminal and labelled as a blasphemer!

Jesus loved the family lineage through which he was born [b]"the lineage of God's faithful servants the likes of Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David. Jesus was proud of that heritage but when it comes to dying Jesus finds it so difficult to accept that what Satan is proposing is for Jesus to be accused, arrested, tried, convicted, judged, sentenced and executed all to appear as if going through the lawful process whereas it was all done unjustly!

How will such story tell on the lineage of Jacob's future progenies?
Who will tell them that it was all done unlawfully?
Jesus' true followers will be killed and treated as false religionists who are propagating paganism in the land where Jesus has been fighting all his prehuman existence to preserve as God's own nation!
So this thought is what made Jesus cried and cried not for himself but for the coming generation of Jews who will find it really hard to believe that the Messiah all the prophets have spoken about has come and was killed like a common criminal on false charges of blasphemy!

Satan is an angel too so he knew what Jesus will find very hard to swallow, that's exactly what he demanded as a means of killing the Messiah!
Of course it's Satan's agents that will mastermind the killing, Jesus was anticipating murder just as the Jews did for all past prophets {Matthew 23:37-38} but Satan knew what Jesus won't find so easy. Well as the ruler of the world Satan presented his proposal to God and God revealed this to Jesus at the moment when he is about to offer himself. That's what Jesus was begging his father to change! He was prepared to die but not as a criminal or a blasphemer!
At the end a life was saved, one of the thieves executed alongside Jesus accepted Christianity so Jesus' pain was relieved if a dying man on the torture stake could accept Jesus as King, then nobody as NOBODY could be excused!

God bless you!

Henrymorre:


At the end moment Jesus did not have same will as God( Jesus didn't want to die)

Henrymorre:
we have alot of Bible's, different believe and that is why we have a lot of confusion in Christianity. The Bible may not be doctored, but the beliefs, are certainly not from the Bible. Just as humans believed Jesus was God, and you cannot find that in the Bible, yet they want you to believe what was never written in the Bible. The problem started when some people believe the Catholics worship Idols, like bowing to Mary etc. Praying to Mary for intercede on their behalfs, thus creating new Christianity from same Christianity.

If source is void, all is void

Kneeling down for a pastor to pray for u is the same as kneelin down in fr0nt of mary statue. Asking mary to intercede in prayer is the same thing as saying IN JESUS NAME

Henrymorre:
I would be glad to answer many questions as long you ask to learn.

My last question. . .which system of belief is correct? I cant even use according to bible. . Coz protestants left t0ns of chapters and numbers out fr0m catholic bible when writing their bible. . Even jw claims they are the real christians. . Which of these christians factions worship GOD just as jesus did?

Like islam n0w. . The prophet was sent to explain and practice everything about act of worship and way of life to us. Its very easy to detect n0n muslim claiming islam because AS L0NG AS YOU HAVE DIFF BELIEF AND WORSHIPS DIFF FR0M HOW PROPHET DID . . THAT PERS0N IS A G0NNER.

Nuttella:
I'm done with this unnecessary argument, believe whatever you want. The heresy I heard today from you is that the holy ghost is an angel. Be careful how you blasphem the holy spirit. The holy spirit is like a wind, the spirit of God and is not an angel, he comes in different forms, the spirit of God is God. Jesus is God, all of them make up the Godhead. Bye.

You see one strange thing about Africans. My brother just answer that question. Leave his heresy. We all Wana learn

MaxInDHouse:
I read through your post and discovered the highlighted. This is where the wisdom comes in!

Jesus was prepared to do his father's will, he knew he's going to die, he related the experience of past prophets who were slaughtered for the sake of righteousness, he encouraged his followers to lay down their lives for the TRUTH, he told his followers several times that he will be the sacrifice that's going to remove sin, so he was fully prepared for the task but one thing that's making Jesus feel uncomfortable!

Being killed as a criminal and labelled as a blasphemer!

Jesus loved the family lineage through which he was born [b]"the lineage of God's faithful servants the likes of Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David. Jesus was proud of that heritage but when it comes to dying Jesus finds it so difficult to accept that what Satan is proposing is for Jesus to be accused, arrested, tried, convicted, judged, sentenced and executed all to appear as if going through the lawful process whereas it was all done unjustly!

How will such story tell on the lineage of Jacob's future progenies?
Who will tell them that it was all done unlawfully?
Jesus' true followers will be killed and treated as false religionists who are propagating paganism in the land where Jesus has been fighting all his prehuman existence to preserve as God's own nation!
So this thought is what made Jesus cried and cried not for himself but for the coming generation of Jews who will find it really hard to believe that the Messiah all the prophets have spoken about has come and was killed like a common criminal on false charges of blasphemy!

Satan is an angel too so he knew what Jesus will find very hard to swallow, that's exactly what he demanded as a means of killing the Messiah!
Of course it's Satan's agents that will mastermind the killing, Jesus was anticipating murder just as the Jews did for all past prophets {Matthew 23:37-38} but Satan knew what Jesus won't find so easy. Well as the ruler of the world Satan presented his proposal to God and God revealed this to Jesus at the moment when he is about to offer himself. That's what Jesus was begging his father to change! He was prepared to die but not as a criminal or a blasphemer!
At the end a life was saved, one of the thieves executed alongside Jesus accepted Christianity so Jesus' pain was relieved if a dying man on the torture stake could accept Jesus as King, then nobody as NOBODY could be excused!

God bless you!

My brother .. I like your permutations. But it doesn't matter how long someone knows he will die. The question is at that point of his death.. he said if it were possible let this cup pass over me ; that's a statement of intent (divided will) ...
Let the will be done (the will of God)
God cannot have two 'wills' over a situation at a particular time.
So that analysis is flawed

NeoWanZaeed:
Root of islam is prophet muhammad. Sunni practises islam according to prophet and sahabahs. . seems u d0nt kn0w shia. . They are n0n muslims. They strayed fr0m the path of prophet muhammad thereby creating their own separate religion called shia. They do n0t believe in ALLAH, they do n0t believe in prophet muhammad, they call c0mpanions of prophet kafir. They have separate quran and hadith. They believe their leaders are god. The way they perform salat and adhan is different, they legalize prostitution, they believe ALI {one of the companions of the prophet} is ALLAH. They believe wife of the prophet did adultery, they do curse the companions of the prophet every friday, they are always trying to topple the government, they told him {ali} that he is Allah, when he was alive, he burnt them all. THE ENTIRE SYSTEM OF BELIEF OF SHIA has n0thing to do with islam

You(and obviously other Sunnis)are the ones who say they are not Muslims.Shia believe Mohammed appointed Ali as his successor and this is backed up by the Hadith and history books.
They believe in Allah because they believe Muhammed's message and his appointment of Ali.According to history,some companions of Muhammed resisted them but he also got backing from some companions of Muhammed. Shias's believe is based on the Hadith of Ghadir Khumm and some others.

See you can't prove they are wrong because of your own beliefs.They also have proofs backed up by Hadiths and history that they are right.

One thing I'm trying to show you from all of this is that the SAME issue of what you may call 'inconsistencies' in the Bible or Christianity affects Islam too.