If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:39am On Jan 25, 2021 |
Jesus talked in PARABLES {Matthew 13:13} so it is by comparing what God said regarding sin in the beginning and throughout the scriptures that can help the reader to understand Jesus' PARABLES not just picking his comments out of context! The capital punishment for disobedience as God told Adam (the first man) is DEATH {Genesis 2:17} so Adam knew rebellion will return him to dust and not some place for everlasting torment!  Paul under the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit said at death people have been acquainted of their sins! Romans 6:7, 23 A good student of the Bible will not take Jesus' words literally since he himself openly said i use PARABLES to teach so that faithless people will not understand. Mark 4:12 So what Jesus said both in the gospels and in the book of Revelations need thorough meditation otherwise you will just continue to apply it wrongly {Daniel 12:10} Jesus himself said the only way to identify those who understands his teachings is by observing the FRUIT of God's Holy Spirit in their midst! Matthew 7:15-20 People have read Jesus' words and misapplied it yet they are killing their fellowmen out of misconception on what is written in God's word. Note that Muslims also believe in Hellfire but that doesn't make their teachings right, how can you say God will torment people in fire forever and you have to kill them so that they can quickly go to Hell even when they don't see any benefits in accepting your doctrines? IamAtikulate: |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by freshboi88: 7:11am On Jan 25, 2021 |
kingxsamz: Oh pls shut up |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by IamAtikulate: 9:28am On Jan 25, 2021 |
MaxInDHouse:When people talks in parable you will know and when they speak literally, you will also know. Parables have meaning and we know the meaning. Hell fire is real. 1 Like |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by IamAtikulate: 9:44am On Jan 25, 2021 |
MaxInDHouse: 1. The soul will die ... Second death but you are misinterpreting that Ezekiel. Soul also means life e.g Let save a soul. That verse says "The life of every person belongs to me, the life of the parents as well as the child. The person who sins is the person who will die" Always understand context before jumping into conclusion. 2. Matthew 10:28 just proved everything. The verse says"Be not afraid of those that can kill the body but not the soul but only God that can perish both the body and soul in hell" The Bible didn't use grave but hell. Grave and hell are not the same thing. From that verse, you could see that the soul is immortal at death. Human and death can harm the body but not the soul. Only God can perish the soul. 3. The soul doesn't reside in the grave. The body prerishes in grave and it is conscious of nothing. 1 Like |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by IamAtikulate: 9:56am On Jan 25, 2021 |
Proofs of Hell Fire Matthew 13:50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 18:8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. Matthew 18:9 If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell. Luke 16:24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, Isaiah 66:24 “Then they will go forth and look on the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die and their fire will not be quenched; and they will be an abhorrence to all mankind.” Mark 9:48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. 1 Like |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:00am On Jan 25, 2021 |
The KJV said soul will DIE! Ezekiel 18:4 Please is there anywhere in the scriptures that says soul cannot DIE?  IamAtikulate: |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:04am On Jan 25, 2021 |
You said "when people speak in PARABLES you will know AND UNDERSTAND" Are you insinuating Jesus doesn't understand what he was saying @ Matthew 13:13? IamAtikulate: |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by DappaD: 10:14am On Jan 25, 2021 |
IamAtikulate: The Hebrew word translated soul is nephesh which literally means a “breathing creature” which is the person himself not something that is inside a person. Genesis 2:7 Humans and animals ARE souls, they don’t possess one. Numbers 31:28, Ecclesiastes 3:19-21
Rather than delve into much detail, why not consider the parallel rendering at Luke 12:4? That’ll help you get a clearer understanding.
Okay, but the same “hell” that was thrown into a lake of fire? Revelation 20:14 C’mon you can’t tell me you missed that important detail.
You’ll never find the words “immortal soul” anywhere in the Bible. According to the Bible, the only two persons who are immortal: God[Jeremiah 10:10, Habakkuk 1:12] and his Son, Jesus after he was resurrected from the dead.[Romans 6:9-10, 1Timothy 6:15] None other in the Bible are described as being immortal, not even the angels that’s why Matthew 25:41 speaks of the rebellious angels attaining destruction.
Go and tell Psalm 88:3 and Ecclesiastes 3:20 that one. Like as already been said, “hell” translated of your Bible actually means “Grave” in English. That’s why Job was telling God to conceal him there. Job 14:13 The KJV translators only saw it fit to change the rendering to “hell” in the NT, to fit their own doctrines because even Jesus went there and stayed there for 3½days. Acts 2:27 |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by DappaD: 10:21am On Jan 25, 2021 |
IamAtikulate: There’s no proof up there, all I see are JJST desperate attempts at misconstruing Jesus’ words. Please please please leave Luke 16 out of this. It has nothing to do with this so-called “hellfire”. So somebody will actually take his eyes, tongue, feet and hands to this “hellfire”? Mark 9:48 you quoted finds its parallel at Isaiah 66:24, right? Ans Isaiah 66:24 said it was “corpses” or “carcasses” that are being thrown into Gehenna[a place in former Jerusalem where rubbish and condemned criminals were incinerated]. So it is not even living humans but corpses. I hope you can see that? |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by Ihedinobi3: 11:18am On Jan 25, 2021 |
chatinent: Hi there. I thought of just linking other conversations I've had on this matter for your perusal, but I think that your approach does offer some uniqueness, so I'll attend to it separately and then offer you other links that you can read for a broader discussion on this. As I always try to remind people I respond to, please keep in mind that the best that I or anyone else really can do is to represent the Bible's position accurately. No one can make you believe anything that you don't want to believe. My commitment to the Lord is to help every believer who will accept my help with my pastor-teaching gift to understand biblical truth. It is not to make anyone accept the truth if they don't want to accept it. So, there is a real limit to my ability to satisfy you here. To your questions then... 1. If you mean that Adam and Eve never went to Torments, that is true, although the Bible does not speak explicitly of what happened to them after they died. They did accept the Gospel of Salvation in the Garden of Eden after all. When the Lord killed an animal and gave the skin to them to wear (Genesis 3:21), that was His offering of the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus much later in history to die for all human sin against God. Their acceptance of the skin was therefore their acceptance of that later Sacrifice in their behalf. At death then, they were taken to wherever believers were supposed to be, not to where unbelievers were to be deposited. 2/3. I'm not sure what the lie is. The Bible speaks of death in different ways. In fact, we know that there are three types of death. There is the physical death which is a separation of our spirits from our physical bodies and the removal of our spirits from the earth to a place defined by our choices in this world regarding the Lord (Ecclesiastes 12:7). There is spiritual death which is the estrangement of the sinner from the Lord (Romans 5:12,19). There is the second death or the lake of fire which is the banishment of all rebels from the Presence of God and all His good gifts to a place of eternal suffering (Revelation 20:15). None of these has anything to do with the cessation of existence which is the atheistic and unbiblical definition of death for some. 4. This is a Hollywood depiction that has nothing to do with the Scriptures. Satan and his fellow rebels have no authority even in Hades as it is right now. Hades contains a compartment called the Abyss or the Prison where any rebel angel that violates the ground rules of the warfare between God and Satan is held until their appointed time of release (Luke 8:31; 1 Peter 3:19-20). It is crazy to imagine that Satan would have any authority over a place that is also a prison for him if he does anything unsanctioned by the Lord. In fact, he does his best to avoid having to even visit Hades. The Lake of Fire, on the other hand, is an even worse experience for Satan. At the end of history, Satan and his fellow rebel angels will be thrown into the Lake of Fire to suffer eternally for their wicked rebellions against the Lord (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10). It's hard to torture others when you yourself are suffering so much that all you can do is regret the folly of your choices. 5. The Lord Jesus warned us to fear God who is able to destroy both body and soul (that is, the whole person) in Hell (Matthew 10:28). So, you can take for granted that it is the whole person that will suffer, not just the body. In this world, although our spirits can suffer a certain degree of pain (our emotions are primarily a spiritual faculty), human beings really cannot damage our spirits in any way, nor can Satan and his angels. But God is able to seriously hurt our spirits. That is what He designed the Lake of Fire for. Anyone who continues to rebel against God will spend eternity in all kinds of torment that not only destroy (in the biblical sense, not in the secular sense) the body but also destroy the spirit (the real us). This is why the Lord Jesus talked about weeping and gnashing of teeth. Both things speak to the eternal regret and frustration (the fundamental emotional pains of all those in the Lake of Fire) that will be the lot of all those who persist in rebellion against God (Matthew 13:50). The "return" of the spirit to God is just that we will answer to Him for our choices in this life (Ecclesiastes 12:7). That was the Bible's way of saying that no one can escape divine judgment. You don't either go out of existence when your body expires nor do you somehow escape God by avoiding appearing before Him after you die. Once our time in this world is done, not a single human being will escape answering to God for all the choices that they made in this world. It does not mean that we will somehow be reabsorbed into God, as some have foolishly said. Our spirits are the real us. So, death only takes us back to our Maker to answer for our choices for and against Him. As I answered in #4 above, obviously Satan does no tormenting or torturing in Hades or in the Lake of Fire. The place itself (Torments in Hades for all human unbelievers and the Lake of Fire for both rebel angels and human unbelievers) is designed to torment all rebels against God for all eternity. It does not need any human or angel to administer its punishment. Itself is the punishment. 6. No it doesn't. First of all, all those who have died in this world -- both believers and unbelievers -- are no longer experiencing life in this world. So they are conscious of nothing going on in this world. Their fight is done, just like fallen soldiers on the battlefield can no longer rampage or revel (Ecclesiastes 9:5). Second of all, those regarded as the dead by God are the spiritually dead. These ones particularly are not provided any opportunity at all to see what is going on in the world after they leave. Even rebel angels who are imprisoned in the Abyss also have no access to what is happening in the world after they are incarcerated there. This was why the Lord Jesus went to them to proclaim His Victory on the Cross (1 Peter 3:19). They didn't know that He had come and died for all human sin, just as God had promised Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:15. Their effort to prevent that from happening by creating Nephilim with human women did not work after all (these were the angels who did that business in Genesis 6:2,4). Those who are not spiritually dead, that is, those who are regarded by God as His Own have a different experience after death. As you will see in Revelation 4:6 and in a number of other places in the same book (15:2, for example), there is a sea of glassy ice in Heaven that serves as a viewing portal into events on earth. The faithful dead, along with the angels, can view the unfolding war on earth through it (cf. Hebrews 12:1; Isaiah 66:24). So they are aware of what is happening here. But this does not mean that they are "conscious" of it in the sense that the Scriptures have it in Ecclesiastes or that they "know" it or that they "praise" the Lord in the sense that David talked about it (Psalm 6:5; cf. 88:10-12; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18). As we already know, even the angels sing praise to God in Heaven (Revelation 4:8-11; 5:9-12). We know from Revelation 6:9-10 that the faithful dead can communicate with the Lord, so we can assume that they do praise Him with the angels. But the dead do not praise the Lord as the living do. Here on earth, we face a great deal of challenges from our enemy the devil. We suffer, we cry, we hope, and we pray for deliverance. These experiences are no longer available to those who have left the earth to be with the Lord. When we who are still alive are delivered, our praise is in the midst of an ongoing battle and for sustenance in this life, both of which are not at all like the praise of those who are at rest and safe from the shot and shell of the wars of this life. This is the sense in which the faithful dead are not conscious of what goes on in this world, the sense in which they don't know anything anymore about life in this world, and the sense in which they do not praise the Lord. 7. This is clearly not a question. Obviously, this is something that you are convinced is true. I will not dictate to you what you must believe, but I can certainly disagree with you. I don't believe that there is any reason to believe that those whom the Lord raised from the dead were not somewhere else while they were dead. Everyone who dies is taken by the angels either to Torments or to the Third Heaven (before the Cross, believers who died were taken to Paradise or Abraham's Bosom). So whenever the Lord Jesus raised a believer from the dead, they were brought back from Paradise at that time. Still, there is good reason to be incredulous about that. Who would want to come back to the earth after having been in Paradise or in the Third Heaven? When Samuel answered Saul's summons from the Grave, he certainly didn't sound too pleased to be back on earth, but then he really wasn't "raised" from the dead. His rest was only temporarily interrupted. For those who are raised from the dead, they come back into a physical body. This is important. Our physical bodies were designed by the Lord to limit our experience of spiritual reality (1 Corinthians 13:12; 15:42-49; Psalm 8:4-5). So it is to be expected that those who are brought back might not remember the immense pleasure of being in Paradise or the Third Heaven. If they did, life on earth might be intolerable for them. This does not mean that the prophets and apostles who received visions of the Third Heaven were lying. It only means that they were very mature believers who could still endure life on earth without being frustrated by their desire to go to Heaven already. 8. I don't believe that that is what Revelation says. I will quote the passage below. What it says is that death and Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, and that this Lake of Fire is what the Bible called the Second Death. What this means is that the Lake of Fire is going to fill the place that the Bible calls Hades. That place has three compartments: Paradise, a place of great pleasure and delight for believers who died before the Cross; Torments, a place of torment for all unbelievers who die from Cain until the end of human history; and the Abyss, a prison for all rebel angels who violate the ground rules of warfare until the Final Judgment when they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. These compartments will be filled with the Lake of Fire. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelation 20:14 (NKJV) What is Death though that gets thrown into the Lake of Fire? Death, Hades, the Grave, Sheol, Hell are all words often used by the Bible to describe the same concept: the impermanence of earthly life. The personalization of Death in Revelation 6:8 does not mean that it is either a sentient being or even a perfectly distinct thing from Hades. Death and Hades go hand in hand because until the Cross, when we die we go to Hades. Since the Cross, that only applies to unbelievers now. The Lake of Fire will end that permanently. Nobody will die again in the new Heaven and Earth that God will create after the Judgment of the Great White Throne. All those who live with God in that new universe will never again be removed from the Earth or separated from God's Presence again. In the Lake of Fire, well, there is no more possibility of transition, so death abides with those who are there forever. Here are some links where you can find other answers I have offered to questions about Hell: On the Purpose of Hell Fire On where people go when they die On the summoning of Samuel's spirit from the Grave On the Question of God's Love and the Existence of Hell Fire Cheers. 1 Like |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by chatinent: 1:17pm On Feb 07, 2021 |
seun, lalasticlala, dominque To the permanent side, please. |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by sonmvayina(m): 5:03pm On Feb 07, 2021 |
IamAtikulate:The people who wrote that jesus said never met jesus, it could be possible tbey just put those words in jesus mouth. It is possible...isnt it? |
| Re: If hell fire is real, can you answer these questions? by iramure(m): 6:55pm On Feb 07, 2021 |
kingxsamz:but you colonial master don't care about the shit written in the nonsense book |
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