shadeyinka:

All these arguments came about because I said that :

All atheists should naturally gravitate toward Nihilism

I just can't imagine how you get through the day claiming white is black lying to yourself that arguments came about because of the above when you know the arguments began long before that.

Sorry, but I will disrespect myself if I continue discussing with you.

LordReed:


There no where were it is stated that all atheists must be Nihilists. In fact most atheists I have heard speak reject Nihilism.

I know that the OP, HellVictorinho, LordReed are not comfortable with (and reject) the label Nihilist even though the position of atheism naturally gravitate towards it. It's like me rejecting the thought of me dieing someday. It must happen, my refection not withstanding!

When you look the totality of existence from an atheists mind, Nihilism is the conclusion. However, when you narrow existence down to the microlevel of day to day choices, an atheist like you want to see it as meaningful, purposeful.

If unfortunately, it's like winning the small battles but ultimately loosing the war. I will rather loose 1000 battles but win the war.

That's why I said:
Even if you don't like the idea (and ultimately it's a paradox), shouldn't all men be Nihilists?

LordReed:

Unless you don't understand that Nihilism is the negation of purpose, value and meaning then I don't see why you think the finality of death is a Nihilistic position.

I like to define Nihilism as:
The basic idea of nihilism is that life ultimately has no purpose or meaning.

I see it like playing an indefinite Russian Roulette were with each round of success, you are paid $1 million. If perchance you survive till the 100th round (with $100 million credit) and the 101th bullet is live, is such a game of any advantage to the player!

Of course, no intellegent person likes the idea of Nihilism. Would I have missed anything in life if shadeyinka died at 1year 2 months? So what am I gaining that I have lived into adulthood?

I understand you position:
An atheist like you would not want to allow the Nihilist philosophy from defining your total living existence (it is fatalistic): but separate day today positive choices you make as meaningful

shadeyinka:
I know that the OP, HellVictorinho, LordReed are not comfortable with (and reject) the label Nihilist even though the position of atheism naturally gravitate towards it. It's like me rejecting the thought of me dieing someday. It must happen, my refection not withstanding!
When you look the totality of existence from an atheists mind, Nihilism is the conclusion. However, when you narrow existence down to the microlevel of day to day choices, an atheist like you want to see it as meaningful, purposeful.

If unfortunately, it's like winning the small battles but ultimately loosing the war. I will rather loose 1000 battles but win the war.

That's why I said:
Even if you don't like the idea (and ultimately it's a paradox), shouldn't all men be Nihilists?


I like to define Nihilism as:
The basic idea of nihilism is that life ultimately has no purpose or meaning.

I see it like playing an indefinite Russian Roulette were with each round of success, you are paid $1 million. If perchance you survive till the 100th round (with $100 million credit) and the 101th bullet is live, is such a game of any advantage to the player!

Of course, no intellegent person likes the idea of Nihilism. Would I have missed anything in life if shadeyinka died at 1year 2 months? So what am I gaining that I have lived into adulthood?

I understand you position:
An atheist like you would not want to allow the Nihilist philosophy from defining your total living existence (it is fatalistic): but separate day today positive choices you make as meaningful

You don't get to be in my head and define me. I am the one to tell you what I think and to define myself to you. If you persist in trying to tell me what I think then we can end the conversation. I do not discuss with people who do that.

LordReed:


You don't get to be in my head and define me. I am the one to tell you what I think and to define myself to you. If you persist in trying to tell me what I think then we can end the conversation. I do not discuss with people who do that.

Can you see what I mean, shade, when I say you lie to yourself that white is black?

What is annoying is you then insist we agree with you despite the fact you are blatantly lying, or just plain blind!

It's what you did when you insisted that a person who died 800 years after surely died on the day that they ate! You refuse to use your eyes and ask us to believe you as if we are all brainless idiots like you are seeming to be.

shadeyinka:
I know that the OP, HellVictorinho, LordReed are not comfortable with (and reject) the label Nihilist even though the position of atheism naturally gravitate towards it. It's like me rejecting the thought of me dieing someday. It must happen, my refection not withstanding!
When you look the totality of existence from an atheists mind, Nihilism is the conclusion. However, when you narrow existence down to the microlevel of day to day choices, an atheist like you want to see it as meaningful, purposeful.

If unfortunately, it's like winning the small battles but ultimately loosing the war. I will rather loose 1000 battles but win the war.

That's why I said:
Even if you don't like the idea (and ultimately it's a paradox), shouldn't all men be Nihilists?


I like to define Nihilism as:
The basic idea of nihilism is that life ultimately has no purpose or meaning.

I see it like playing an indefinite Russian Roulette were with each round of success, you are paid $1 million. If perchance you survive till the 100th round (with $100 million credit) and the 101th bullet is live, is such a game of any advantage to the player!

Of course, no intellegent person likes the idea of Nihilism. Would I have missed anything in life if shadeyinka died at 1year 2 months? So what am I gaining that I have lived into adulthood?

I understand you position:
An atheist like you would not want to allow the Nihilist philosophy from defining your total living existence (it is fatalistic): but separate day today positive choices you make as meaningful

My position that life has no purpose is not Nihilism.
In other words,when I say life, I am referring to an increase or decrease in the population of several species.
Also, there's no totality or limit to the things that exist.
Any indivisible ageless object that exists performs this or that activity.
In other words,if something exists,then something is done by it.
So,the infinite things that exist carry out infinite activities/functions.
But there is no reason why there are infinite things that carry out infinite activities.

HellVictorinho:


My position that life has no purpose is not Nihilism.
In other words,when I say life, I am referring to the events that happen towards an increase or decrease in the population of several species.

Some of us define life as the life we know best, our very own life, so it will be wrong for me to say "life is purposeless" unless I am willing to accept that my own personal life has no purpose, which it most definitely clearly has!

Join the Nairaland Democratic Party and be the change you want to see.

budaatum:


Some of us define life as the life we know best, our very own life, so it will be wrong for me to say "life is purposeless" unless I am willing to accept that my own personal life has no purpose, which it most definitely clearly has!

Join the Nairaland Democratic Party and be the change you want to see.

There is no reason why there is an increase or decrease in the population of several species.

LordReed:


You don't get to be in my head and define me. I am the one to tell you what I think and to define myself to you. If you persist in trying to tell me what I think then we can end the conversation. I do not discuss with people who do that.

I wasn't defining you sir. I was only putting it down the way I understand it. If I misrepresented you, I am sorry - you may correct me if my impression is wrong.

Can we get back at the issue at stake.

Is a war meaningful or purposeful if I am guaranteed victory in the the first hundred battles but assured of ultimately loosing the war!?

HellVictorinho:


There is no reason why there is an increase or decrease in the population of several species.

Do you agree that there is an increase or decrease in the population of several species?

If you agree, please state why that increase or decrease in the population of several species happens.

budaatum:


Can you see what I mean, shade, when I say you lie to yourself that white is black?

What is annoying is you then insist we agree with you despite the fact you are blatantly lying, or just plain blind!

It's what you did when you insisted that a person who died 800 years after surely died on the day that they ate! You refuse to use your eyes and ask us to believe you as if we are all brainless idiots like you are seeming to be .

Aren't you doing exactly the same thing you accuse me of against LordReed?

You get too confrontational sir. You can disagree with me or even despise my speech but not nice to put a label on me.

budaatum:


Do you agree that there is an increase or decrease in the population of several species?

If you agree, please state why that increase or decrease in the population of several species happens.

The increase or decrease happens as several activities are carried out by different species.
But the increase or decrease remains without a purpose.

shadeyinka:

Aren't you doing exactly the same thing you accuse me of against LordReed?

You get too confrontational sir. You can disagree with me or even despise my speech but not nice to put a label on me.

Yes I am doing exactly the say thing I accuse you of. I have found that to be your way and since it is your way, I am hoping you will see yourself when it is done to you.

As for confrontational, yes. People who deceive themselves and block the doors and enter not, Woe!

HellVictorinho:


My position that life has no purpose is not Nihilism.
In other words,when I say life, I am referring to an increase or decrease in the population of several species.
Also, there's no totality or limit to the things that exist.
Any indivisible ageless object that exists performs this or that activity.
In other words,if something exists,then something is done by it.
So,the infinite things that exist carry out infinite activities/functions.
But there is no reason why there are infinite things that carry out infinite activities.

If life has no purpose, does it have a meaning?

Who defines the "meaning" for life?

Do you think it could be meaningful to engage in a war where you win the initial battles but you are guaranteed of ultimately loosing the war?

HellVictorinho:

The increase or decrease happens as several activities are carried out by different species.
But the increase or decrease remains without a purpose.

Sounds like you are saying that there is no purpose to the increase or purpose.

Confirm please. Then answer the following:

Does the increase or decrease happen for no reason?

shadeyinka:

If life has no purpose, does it have a meaning?

Who defines the "meaning" for life?

Do you think it could be meaningful to engage in a war where you win the initial battles but you are guaranteed of ultimately loosing the war?

The definition is what the word LIFE refers to .
The purpose of what it refers to doesn't exist.

budaatum:


Sounds like you are saying that there is no purpose to the increase or purpose.

Confirm please. Then answer the following:

Does the increase or decrease happen for no reason?

The increase or decrease is not a purpose.
The increase or decrease has no purpose.

HellVictorinho:

The increase or decrease has no purpose.

Interesting.

Is it not true that the increase happens because of birth and the decrease happens because some die?

Is there no purpose for a person to be born?

Is the fulfilling of mummy and daddy's desire not a purpose?

budaatum:

Interesting.

Is it not true that the increase happens because of birth and the decrease happens because some die?

Is there no purpose for a person to be born?

Is the fulfilling of mummy and daddy's desire not a purpose?

People are just born and people just die.

HellVictorinho:

People are just born and people just die.

That is not true, Hell. People are not just born. You were not just born! I definitely was not just born! Mummy and daddy first had to find each other and decide to born us after setting up nest and dedicating to keep us alive. You might of course not know this yet, but you will not just born your own children if you ever decide to have any.

And neither do people just die! In fact, quite a lot of effort and resource is put in to ensure people do not just die, and I bet you will not just die neither, but rush to the doctor and spend lots of money to ensure you definitely do not just die.

Please let me know if I am incorrect.

HellVictorinho:


The definition is what the word LIFE refers to .
The purpose of what it refers to doesn't exist.

Life is conscious existence!

These are just l innocent questions:
If life has no purpose, does it have a meaning?

Who defines the "meaning" for life?

budaatum:


Yes I am doing exactly the say thing I accuse you of. I have found that to be your way and since it is your way, I am hoping you will see yourself when it is done to you.

As for confrontational, yes. People who deceive themselves and block the doors and enter not, Woe! See

I hear you!
You are mistaken about me!

People cannot agree about everything! Must we?

shadeyinka:

All these arguments came about because I said that :

All atheists should naturally gravitate toward Nihilism

The more I go back and reflect the worse you actually become! Just listen to yourself trying to create people in your own desired image despite the evidence in front of your eyes!

budaatum:

I am very sorry that I stopped right there. I was an atheist from birth and my life had meaning so I can't say I shared your opinion that atheists arrive at the conclussion you arrived at!

As a humanist alone, your life ought to have plenty of meaning unless you have not got a clue what humanism is about. I mean, do you not know humanism means "Love humans", and what greater purpose can a human being have than the expression of love for their fellow human being so you get up daily with the sole purpose of diminishing the sufferings of your fellow humans?

Now, let me patiently go and read the rest of what you wrote to find out if you were only an atheist to the Bible, as in one who rightfully disbelieved it, but unfortunately failed to seek understanding of what is written therein.

I guess "all atheists should" because you say so, like Eve should have died though she didn't, but let's close our eyes and ignore the evidence and just believe the crap inside your head why don't you!

Ref
Waging Against Crap!

shadeyinka:

I hear you!
You are mistaken about me!

People cannot agree about everything! Must we?

You have not heard me! Noone is asking you to agree with them!

We are asking you to open your own eyes and look for yourself and see!

budaatum:


You have not heard me! Noone is asking you to agree with them!

We are asking you to open your own eyes and look for yourself and see!

And see things exactly as you see it!?

budaatum:


The more I go back and reflect the worse you actually become! Just listen to yourself trying to create people in your own desired image despite the evidence in front of your eyes!



I guess "all atheists should" because you say so, like Eve should have died though she didn't, but let's close our eyes and ignore the evidence and just believe the crap inside your head why don't you!

Ref
Waging Against Crap!

All atheists should naturally gravitate toward Nihilism

Versus

1. All atheists naturally gravitate toward Nihilism
2. All atheists are Nihilists


I don't know what the fight is all about, the word "should!" give allowance for exception doesn't it?

shadeyinka:

And see things exactly as you see it!?

No. Just see instead of telling yourself lies.

You will not admit it, but you know how little of the fruits of knowledge you have consumed, which is glaringly obvious to those who have consumed a lot more fruits of knowledge than you have consumed.

To make it worse, you even have the silly belief that that the actual tree of knowledge is the tree of death that you must not eat it because on the day you eat you will surely die, so how can you possibly stand there claiming to have knowledge of a fruit of a tree you refuse to eat because you believe it will kill you? Yet, you decide to argue with people who who eat the fruits of knowledge for breakfast, lunch, supper and in the middle of the night and even in their sleep!

Shadeyinka, are you talking to a dead buda?

shadeyinka:


All atheists should naturally gravitate toward Nihilism

Versus

1. All atheists naturally gravitate toward Nihilism
2. All atheists are Nihilists


I don't know what the fight is all about, the word "should!" give allowance for exception doesn't it?

Exception to what? Do you have a comprehension problem? Do you understand English? Atheist came here to tell you they are not nihilists, and you want to give allowances for exception?

Maybe I should call you godshade because you sure want to create in your crappy image.

budaatum:


No. Just see instead of telling yourself lies.

You will not admit it, but you know how little of the fruits of knowledge you have consumed, which is glaringly obvious to those who have consumed a lot more fruits of knowledge than you have consumed.

To make it worse, you even have the silly belief that that the actual tree of knowledge is the tree of death that you must not eat it because on the day you eat you will surely die, so how can you possibly stand there claiming to have knowledge of a fruit of a tree you refuse to eat because you believe it will kill you? Yet, you decide to argue with people who who eat the fruits of knowledge for breakfast, lunch, supper and in the middle of the night and even in their sleep!

Shadeyinka, are you talking to a dead buda?

Gen 2:17:
"but you shall not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. For in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Gen 3:11:
"And He said, Who told you that you [were] naked? Have you eaten of the tree which I commanded you that you should not eat?"

I shall seek to grow in the knowledge and understanding of the sciences,the arts, phyillospy, mathematics, logics, etc BUT I shall not eat of the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"!


It depends on the kind of death?
Physical Death: No!
Second death: No!
Spiritual Death: Probably!

You asked me the question, I have answered it!

budaatum:


Exception to what? Do you have a comprehension problem? Do you understand English? Atheist came here to tell you they are not nihilists, and you want to give allowances for exception?

Maybe I should call you godshade because you sure want to create in your crappy image.

Which of these two statements did I offend you with

1. All atheists naturally gravitate toward Nihilism
2. All atheists are Nihilists

shadeyinka:

Gen 2:17:
"but you shall not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. For in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Gen 3:11:
"And He said, Who told you that you [were] naked? Have you eaten of the tree which I commanded you that you should not eat?"

I shall seek to grow in the knowledge and understanding of the sciences,the arts, phyillospy, mathematics, logics, etc BUT I shall not eat of the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"!


It depends on the kind of death?
Physical Death: No!
Second death: No!
Spiritual Death: Probably!

You asked me the question, I have answered it!

Hear yourself!

Spiritual Death: Probably!

Now hear the god of shadeyinka:

"but you shall not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. For in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die spiritual death probably".

Like I said, lie to yourself by twisting what is in front of your eyes to the crap that you want to believe in your head. Just do not expect sensible people like me who can read to be so easily brainwashed like you are.

In the Mighty Name of the Lord God and Messiah Jesus Christ the Saviour, get thee behind me Shade!

shadeyinka:

Which of these two statements did I offend you with

1. All atheists naturally gravitate toward Nihilism
2. All atheists are Nihilists

Neither! But there, of course do you go again creating crap inside your head as if you can not see!

budaatum:

The advantage of living is to the one who lives. You lived today to your advantage.

I am not angry that you ask questions! I am angry that you insist on creating crap inside your head and you blind yourself so you can not see it.

Your blindness angers me and I want you to be saved from it.

budaatum:


The more I go back and reflect the worse you actually become! Just listen to yourself trying to create people in your own desired image despite the evidence in front of your eyes!



I guess "all atheists should" because you say so, like Eve should have died though she didn't, but let's close our eyes and ignore the evidence and just believe the crap inside your head why don't you!

Ref
Waging Against Crap!

Whatever is wrong with the use of 'should' in this instance by shadeyinka? He merely used 'should' to convey a probabilistic inclination, and you went on to unfairly denigrate him with all sorts of labels. Haba!

Mechanics should, but not definitely, be better drivers than most.