@Katsumoto, Without giving too much away, my part of Yorubaland  has a long controversy over our Benin connection, a few local historians support a Benin ancestry story, which is of course supported by Benin Historians themselves, while majority stick to the Ife ancestry of our founders, Which of course is supported by Ife and other Yoruba Historians.


Now, I read the story you posted, I've read it a few times before and it always reads like some good fiction from the Imagination of a brilliant writer to me. It is plausible like you said that there is a connection to Benin as the source of Oduduwa's lineage.

Now a few Observations/Questions:

So acccording to the story, Yorubas were existing at Ife before Oduduwa then?

It is strange that all through the reign of over 30 Ogisos, the Benins and ancient Yorubas never made contact until Ekaladerhan did. hmm

Also, given man's propensity to fight over anything really, why didn't they invade Ife? They should have been mad at the indigenous Yoruba people for appropriating such a vital link, don't you think? I mean, Benin Warriors went as far as present day Lagos and maybe Igboland sef. no?

On a second thought, Maybe the pretender to the Benin throne preferred it that way anyway, which will make sense from a personal gain perspective really, still curious though.

Also, this story means that the Binis should pay homage to Oduduwa's Yoruba descendants given Oduduwa-Ekaladerhan's place as an Ogiso.  


The question now is; who is Original Yoruba and who is Yoruba-Benin (Direct Ekaladerhan descendants) ?

isale_gan2:

No, I don't believe the Saudi connection. I don't tend to entertain origins of Black Africans that seek to connect us by force with biblical or middle eastern history. We can stand on our own.

I always resent that too, Like West Africans cannot be validated until they have a connection to Egypt or something

My question about the skin complexion was just that, about the color. Since one of Oduduwa's main defining characteristics is this shiny black beautiful skin he was supposed to have possessed, any description to the contrary will always get my attention.

That was from the A. B Ellis book right? actually you are right, one should wonder about the discrepancy, since he got his description from the supposedly dark skinned Yorubas and maybe the Ewes.

Or maybe the Spiritual/Divine Oduduwa deity is different from the physical mortal one.

Or maybe the desription was lost in translation , maybe they mean't deep one, or shiny one, or bright one, or wise one and not black one.

Kilode?!:

@Katsumoto, Without giving too much away, my part of Yorubaland  has a long controversy over our Benin connection, a few local historians support a Benin ancestry story, which is of course supported by Benin Historians themselves, while majority stick to the Ife ancestry of our founders, Which of course is supported by Ife and other Yoruba Historians.


Now, I read the story you posted, I've read it a few times before and it always reads like some good fiction from the Imagination of a brilliant writer to me. It is plausible like you said that there is a connection to Benin as the source of Oduduwa's lineage.

Benin history is well documented. Benin historians have the names of all Ogisos. The interregnum between the last Ogiso (Owodo) and the first Oba (Eweka) fits in well with the missing Prince Ekaladerhan.

Kilode?!:

@Katsumoto, Without giving too much away, my part of Yorubaland  has a long controversy over our Benin connection, a few local historians support a Benin ancestry story, which is of course supported by Benin Historians themselves, while majority stick to the Ife ancestry of our founders, Which of course is supported by Ife and other Yoruba Historians.

Now a few Observations/Questions:

So acccording to the story, Yorubas were existing at Ife before Oduduwa then?

Of course, Yoruba existed before Oduduwa got to Ife. Oduduwa's wife was Yoruba and her name was Omonide. The ruler at Ife was called Orelu Ore and rulers that were deposed were Yoruba and they later went south and founded Ugbo (Ilaje). No credible Yoruba history has ever stated that Oduduwa was the progenitor of the Yoruba people.

Kilode?!:



It is strange that all through the reign of over 30 Ogisos, the Benins and ancient Yorubas never made contact until Ekaladerhan did. hmm

Those 30 Ogisos didn't make contact with other closer neighbours as well

Kilode?!:



Also, given man's propensity to fight over anything really, why didn't they invade Ife? They should have been mad at the indigenous Yoruba people for appropriating such a vital link, don't you think? I mean, Benin Warriors went as far as present day Lagos and maybe Igboland sef. no?

Most West African tribes didn't start travelling until well into the 15th century. Bini started their period of conquest with Ewuare and Ozolua in the 15th century. Benin went as far as Lagos but cleverly avoided Yoruba inter-land which was mirred in internecine wars. The point I am making is that inter-tribal wars didn't really exist before Oduduwa.

Kilode?!:

On a second thought, Maybe the pretender to the Benin throne preferred it that way anyway, which will make sense from a personal gain perspective really, still curious though.

Also, this story means that the Binis should pay homage to Oduduwa's Yoruba descendants given Oduduwa-Ekaladerhan's place as an Ogiso.  

Who is the pretender? I don't get whom you are referring to.

With regards to who should pay homage, 'which came first? The chicken or the egg?' I suspect that Benin will claim that since Eweka was the great-grandson of Ekaladerhan, why should they pay homage to Ife? 

Kilode?!:

The question now is; who is Original Yoruba and who is Yoruba-Benin (Direct Ekaladerhan descendants) ?

Original Yoruba are the descendants of Orunmila. There is no Yoruba-Benin since Oduduwa married Yoruba women and his offspring married Yoruba women etc  Despite the English monarchy having descended from William the conqueror (French), Queen Victoria marrying Albert (German) and Queen Elizabeth marrying the Duke (Greek), their descendants are still called English. Language, culture, way of life, etc determine who you are. The Tapa and Ijaw who migrated to Lagos have been there for so long that they are now Lagos indigenes.

^
Thanks I'll look into some of the more interesting stuff in there.

Katsumoto:


Those 30 Ogisos didn't make contact with other closer neighbours as well

Ok, so they did not go East until later? I intially thought they did.

So where did this well kept records of history say they came from? the sky too

Abi na Egypt? or Saudi?

Most West African tribes didn't start travel until well into the 15th century. Bini started their period of conquest with Ewuare and Ozolua in the 15th century. Benin went as far as Lagos but cleverly avoided Yoruba inter-land which was mirred in internecine wars. The point I am making is that inter-tribal wars didn't really exist before Oduduwa

So my Ile-Ibinu people brought agidi to Yorubaland? 

Who is the pretender? I don't get whom you are referring to.

Oh, I was referring to Ogieamie Irebor.

If I were him I would've been hostile to Ekaladerhan too, and I won't compel his direct descendants to come back to Igodomigodo if I can avoid it.

With regards to who should pay homage, 'which came first? The chicken or the egg?' I suspect that Benin will claim that since Eweka was the great-grandson of Ekaladerhan, why should they pay homage to Ife?

Oduduwa should not bow down to his Grandkid, so they need to go to Ile-Ife and pay Obeisance 

Original Yoruba are the descendants of Orunmila. There is no Yoruba-Benin since Oduduwa married Yoruba women and his offspring married Yoruba women etc Despite the English monarchy having descended from William the conqueror (French), Queen Victoria marrying Albert (German) and Queen Elizabeth marrying the Duke (Greek), their descendants are still called English. Language, culture, way of life, etc determine who you are. The Tapa and Ijaw who migrated to Lagos have been their for so long that they are now Lagos indigenes.

That's all.

Kilode?!:


So my Ile-Ibinu people brought agidi to Yorubaland? 

But Oranmiyan, Ajaka, and Sango had been warring with other neighbouring tribes before Ewuare started his campaign again riverine Yoruba (Mahin, Ilaje). The most famous was the Oyo conflict with Owu when Ajaka was captured and had to be rescued by Sango.

The question now is; who is Original Yoruba and who is Yoruba-Benin

not sure why some are so fascinated with benin, but majority [if not all] of the yorubas with direct bini antecedents know themselves and their history isnt lost like some would think.

neither are they a majority like some also want to think?

Infact, what 2 comment than 2 say u guys are just too much: bringin us again d yesteryears history fresh. Pls keep it up.

alj_harem:

[size=15pt]Momodu Ayinla Lamuye the most zealous muslim yoruba king (oba)[/size]

Momodu Ayinla Lamuye was a titled Nigerian traditional ruler who held the office of Oluwo of Iwo. He is considered one of the most zealous Muslim Obas in Yoruba land during the nineteenth century and used his office to consolidate the religion in his domain.

. . . In 1863, he had to deal with a revolt in his domain led by the [size=14pt]Balogun Alli[/size] who was a powerful leader prior to the coronation of Lamuye. He succeeded in containing the revolt by recruiting loyalist troops to quell the rebellion and contacting Bashorun Ogunmola to allow Alli to remain in exile in Ibadan.

Thanks, AljHarem.  Would love to know more about the rebellious Balogun.

Katsumoto:

Benin history is well documented. Benin historians have the names of all Ogisos. The interregnum between the last Ogiso (Owodo) and the first Oba (Eweka) fits in well with the missing Prince Ekaladerhan.

From the above, it is clear that the tradition with most monarchies, Bini included, was to have the the throne pass directly from king/queen to immediate offspring, but Eko/Lagos has this revolving kingship that has created so much confusion at time of succession, and I personally am intrigued by it.  For example, wasn't there a prolonged lawsuit challenging Oyekan's right to succeed at the time he did, and even with this current Oba, there is a challenge to his ascention to the throne.  I know the Akinsemoyin descendants are fit to be tied.  But that may be a topic for another thread. 

The fact that the Binis couldn't put a king on the throne because their prince was missing is what caught my eye in your post.

Most West African tribes didn't start travelling until well into the 15th century. Bini started their period of conquest with Ewuare and Ozolua in the 15th century. Benin went as far as Lagos but cleverly avoided Yoruba inter-land which was mirred in internecine wars. The point I am making is that inter-tribal wars didn't really exist before Oduduwa.

Wasn't the wars that preoccupied and displaced the Yorubas since the 18th century indirectly related to the slave trade and European efforts at colonisation?

Alaafin Abiodun (reigned ca. 1770–1789)

Abiodun was an 18th-century alaafin, or ruler, of the Oyo people in what is now Nigeria. Coming to the throne shortly after the Oyo subjugation of neighboring Dahomey, Abiodun soon found himself embroiled in a civil war over the goals of the newly wealthy state.

Bashorun Gaha, the empire's prime minister and lord marshal, had used his power to pervert the constitutional terms of abdication in a bid to limit the powers of the Alaafin and gain more political power for himself. During Gaha's power play, he had succeeded in removing three kings before Abiodun curtailed his excesses and had him burned alive.

In terms of trade, while Abiodun favored economic expansion for its own sake, his opponents favored using the wealth from Dahomey's tribute to finance further military expansion. Abiodun soon proved victorious and pursued a policy of peaceful trade with the European merchants of the coast. This course significantly weakened the army, leaving his successor, Awole, facing a number of local revolts.

Abiodun's reign is generally remembered as a time of peace and prosperity for the Oyo, though Nigerian playwright Femi Òsófisan portrays him as a despot in his play The Chattering and the Song (1973).

His grandson Cândido da Fonseca Galvão, under the title of Dom Oba II, was an important South American abolitionist during Pedro II of Brazil's rule.

currently reading dom oba's biography and it's quite interesting.

but there's no info on how his father [allegedly abiodun's son] got to brazil, where he later became a free black.

were some of abiodun's descendants also enslaved and shipped to brazil? or did they go there as free blacks [not likely].


who was his mother?

[size=15pt]Momodu Lamuye[/size]

Momodu Ayinla Lamuye was a titled Nigerian traditional ruler who held the office of Oluwo of Iwo. He is considered one of the most zealous Muslim Obas in Yoruba land during the nineteenth century and used his office to consolidate the religion in his domain.

Life

Lamuye was born to the family of Oluwo Ogunmakinde Anide. Interestingly, he was given the Muslim name of Momodu at birth.
He succeeded his father but his choice drew complaints from Iwo traditional religion adherents within the royal households who raised concerns about his practice of Islam and how he would be able to carry out with traditional rituals. Lamuye doused the tension by accepting to give necessary assistance to officials involved in traditional rites.
Lamuye's reign witnessed a gradual growth in Islam in the town. However, it is noted that Islam preceded the reign of Lamuye in Iwo, it was supposedly established in the town during the reign of Oluwo Alawusa (c. 1795-1820). However, another Iwo tradition dates the beginning of the religion in Iwo to a man called Momodu an itinerant preacher during the reign of Oluwo Layilumi who died around 1750.
In 1863, he had to deal with a revolt in his domain led by the Balogun, Alli who was a powerful leader prior to the coronation of Lamuye. He succeeded in containing the revolt by recruiting loyalist troops to quell the rebellion and contacting Bashorun Ogunmola to allow Alli to remain in exile in Ibadan.

alj_harem:


Momodu Lamuye

In 1863, he had to deal with a revolt in his domain led by the Balogun, Alli who was a powerful leader prior to the coronation of Lamuye.

Thanks, AljHarem.

But I wanted to know more about the Balogun (Alli ?) that rebelled against him.  I think the above was in the original post.  I'll look for info online when I'm able. 

isale_gan2:

Thanks, AljHarem.

But I wanted to know more about the Balogun (Alli ?) that rebelled against him.  I think the above was in the original post.  I'll look for info online when I'm able. 

ok, i wil also do some more research about him,

tpia@:


currently reading dom oba's biography and it's quite interesting.

but there's no info on how his father [allegedly abiodun's son] got to brazil, where he later became a free black.

were some of abiodun's descendants also enslaved and shipped to brazil? or did they go there as free blacks [not likely].


who was his mother?

Thank you for posting this.

Yes, who was his mother? How did he get to Brazil?

Was he a slave or a slave trader who went on a business trip with his "cargo" and decided to stay?

This is really interesting info. I checked the tiny bit they have on Wikipedia, they didn't say how he got to Brazil. I'm so curious to learn more, if you find anything new please post.

you're welcome.

actually i just did another google search and found more information about his father. It seems he fought in one of the yoruba civil wars, was captured and sold into slavery in brazil.



http://books.google.com/books?id=owVmcTlC-oIC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=dom+oba&source=bl&ots=j8LniAQHZT&sig=oF5xt_u3DlWKyGTJouAU0UoVuTU&hl=en&ei=vln9TcD5Hqjn0QHwnOCuAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=dom%20oba&f=false



He bought his freedom with the assistance of the yoruba community there, married, and had children who were raised as free blacks.

his wife [according to the book i'm reading, which is different from this google excerpt] had both a bantu and yoruba name [from the husband], but there's no other info about her origins that i'm aware of.

Kilode?!:

Thank you for posting this.

Yes, who was his mother? How did he get to Brazil?

Was he a slave or a slave trader who went on a business trip with his "cargo" and decided to stay?

This is really interesting info. I checked the tiny bit they have on Wikipedia, they didn't say how he got to Brazil. I'm so curious to learn more, if you find anything new please post.

 
Both his parents were slaves. His father arrived in Bahia as a slave in the early part of the 19th century. The father was Benvindo da Fonseca Galvão (Dom Oba 1) and bought his freedom around 1830 (can't remember the exact year) and subsequently took the name of his former owner. Candido was born in the diamond fields of Bahia, where his father worked as a free man. He was more famous than his father because he was born a creole, fought for Brazil in the Paraguayan wars (1865 - 1870), and helped to recruit other freed slaves for the war. He was also very close to the Brazilian Emperor, Dom Pedro.

There are two books that I know of in English that cover the lives of Cândido da Fonseca Galvão and his father.

1. Identity In The Shadow of Slavery
2. Prince of The People

Both books go into some detail about the lives of slaves in Brazil before the abolition in 1889 which coincided with the fall of the Brazilian monarchy.

unfortunately, dom oba II didnt survive the fall of the brazilian monarchy. He was on close terms with the brazilian king at the time, and when the monarchy was abolished and the king sent into exile, he [dom oba] died soon after, having been stripped of his position and priviledges.

very sad story.

this mysterious man was in brazil as a free black but his origins remain unknown. It seems he had an agreement with the british to stay away from africa, and he landed in brazil with the other slaves even though he wasnt one. He was an exiled chief.

he was also a black leader and medicine man who worked with a german assistant.


jose custodio joaquim de almeida
[img]http://1.bp..com/_PvVAVDZoCwY/SjFa8uabKRI/AAAAAAAADIg/77j6zXf9zdo/s400/principe_custodio.jpg[/img]



that brazil has some strange stories.

^^^
You are posting some great stuff Tpia, Brazil is definitely filled with historical gems!

I always wonder how slaves sold into Portuguese Brazil seemed to have retained so much of their "original" language and culture.

Of course other groups did retain some across the Americas. Maybe the Brazil phenomenon is due to the practices of the Portuguese slavers compared with the English and the to an extent the Spanish. The Portuguese were probably the first set of Europeans to trade in African slaves. Maybe they were already over it and therefore went mild when they got to Brazil.

I also think it had something to do with the cultural development of slaves from some parts of Africa, in this case; maybe the Yorubas already had a well developed sense of religion and society which helped them survive the effects of slavery.

@Katsumoto, Do you know if Alaafin Abiodun was still on the throne when Dom Oba I was captured?

I'm curious about this other guy Tpia posted also, who knows maybe he was exiled to stop a conflict or something, maybe an Aare Ona Kakanfo, Maybe a king or some other powerful pain in the butt to some powerful person.

I'll check out the books you posted. Good stuff!

^very fascinating stuff.

ithe book i'm currently reading is prince of the people [the second one on katsumoto's list].

it's very interesting [though sad], and gives some info on yoruba royal practices too.

eg the use of umbrellas by traditional royalty. Used to be restricted back in the day and even now i think some types of umbrella can only be used by royalty.

opele and turtles as well [i'd even forgotten about the turtles or tortoises which are kept as pets by very traditional older people. Not sure what they signify].

their food, however is a bit different in brazil because they cook beans with meat, and in nigeria i dont think we do that. Beans is cooked with either yam or plantain.

Kilode?!:

^^^
You are posting some great stuff Tpia, Brazil is definitely filled with historical gems!

I always wonder how slaves sold into Portuguese Brazil seemed to have retained so much of their "original" language and culture.

Of course other groups did retain some across the Americas. Maybe the Brazil phenomenon is due to the practices of the Portuguese slavers compared with the English and the to an extent the Spanish. The Portuguese were probably the first set of Europeans to trade in African slaves. Maybe they were already over it and therefore went mild when they got to Brazil.

I also think it had something to do with the cultural development of slaves from some parts of Africa, in this case; maybe the Yorubas already had a well developed sense of religion and society which helped them survive the effects of slavery.

@Katsumoto, Do you know if Alaafin Abiodun was still on the throne when Dom Oba I was captured?

I'm curious about this other guy Tpia posted also, who knows maybe he was exiled to stop a conflict or something, maybe an Aare Ona Kakanfo, Maybe a king or some other powerful pain in the butt to some powerful person.

I'll check out the books you posted. Good stuff!

Alaafin Abiodun died in 1789 and was suceeded by Awole who committed suicide in 1796. Now Awole was succeeded by his brother Adebo. The succession of Awole by Adebo plunged Oyo into civil war as Afonja (Awole's nephew) was expecting to be made Alaafin but was checked by the Mesi. Adebo lasted a few months before dying in 1797 and was succeeded by Makua who also committed suicide after losing a battle to the Ilorins in the same year. Following the death of Makua, there was an interrugnum for five years as civil war raged in the empire. Dom Oba 1 was sold as a slave in the early part of the 19th century. Could possibly have been during the civil wars or by those fearing his right to the throne. After the interregnum, Majotu became Alaafin and his reign was the most stable for a while as he reigned between 1802 and 1830. My guess - he was sold deliberately to pave the way for someone else to be Alaafin.

Custódio José Joaquim de Almeida
Now this guy's story is so confusing that I can only conclude that a story was manufactured for him by the British when he got to Brazil. He is alleged to have come from Dahomey and left as a result of the conflict between the British and the French. But I dont see why an African Chief would have to leave as a result of that. He is also alleged to have been a worshipper of Batuque but Batuque originated in Cape Verde. If we are to follow a West African conflict, then it is likely to have been the Ijaiye war which started in1859 and ended in 1862, the same year that Custódio left Africa. There are some other texts in Portuguese about him; I will try and see if there's more information that can shed light on his origins.

^^ I enjoyed reading that. The whole Brazil-Oyo-Dahomey historical connection is intriguing especially that Bahia. I bet a good researcher will get plenty of stuff from that Brazilian State, especially if you can speak Portuguese.

VALIDATOR

The solution to Nigeria's political problems might actually be in re-visiting our pre 1914 past.

@VALIDATOR ^^ GBAM!!! Thank you everyone on this Thread I was about giving up on the Nigeria Project . Thank you all.

kilode?!

Of course other groups did retain some across the Americas. Maybe the Brazil phenomenon is due to the practices of the Portuguese slavers compared with the English and the to an extent the Spanish. The Portuguese were probably the first set of Europeans to trade in African slaves. Maybe they were already over it and therefore went mild when they got to Brazil.

I also think it had something to do with the cultural development of slaves from some parts of Africa, in this case; maybe the Yorubas already had a well developed sense of religion and society which helped them survive the effects of slavery.

@Kilode?! ^^ The Bolded is very on point about Brazil and the Portuguese. The Portuguese were never an aggressive lot like her fellow European journey men. Remember that her initial contact with the Bini Kingdom was relatively respectful and equal hence ambassadors were exchanged etc.
The size of Brazil and the Quilombos or free states or territories controlled by runaway or free slaves was important in infusing relative sense of autonomy and maintaining cultural practices like in Salvadore/Bahia etc. The Language and cultural practices thing is not very clearcut as most people will like to propagate bearing in mind that the gulf of Guinea axis from Togo - Angola have some practices that can be described as very close or identical in practices. In my travels / Brazil and Haiti in particular, I think that some of the influences can be also be attributed to the Kongo/Angola basin e.g.(Capoeira) and even the world famous Rio carnival etc, Benin( R.P) and Togo also not far from modern day Yorubaland can actually legitimately lay claim too.
You and Katsumoto are on point and too much .

The Portuguese were never an aggressive lot like her fellow European journey men

they were, in the congo.

and they were in west africa to get slaves, nothing more.

The size of Brazil and the Quilombos or free states or territories controlled by runaway or free slaves was important in infusing relative sense of autonomy and maintaining cultural practices like in Salvadore/Bahia etc.

at some point, african babalawos [native priests] were being sent to brazil enmasse either as slaves or free men accompanying the slaves. The reasons for this arent yet clear but it did happen. Some were also exiled for instigating the local populace. eg in congo or angola one particularly troublesome native doctor was exiled to brazil [one of many in what was the trend then]. He met the former administrator of his birthplace there, who then sent him back to africa.

so, these priests exported much of the african gods and religions, and helped integrate them overseas. Likewise many muslim slaves brought over from west africa [males] did the same for their own religion.

however, when the continued efforts of all these people [christians included], led to insurgencies and slave revolts, many were deported back to africa [or different parts of brazil] while others left voluntarily.

tpia@:

. . . however, when the continued efforts of all these people [christians included], led to insurgencies and slave revolts, many were deported back to africa [or different parts of brazil] while others left voluntarily.

How does a slave leave voluntarily?

tpia@:

^very fascinating stuff.

ithe book i'm currently reading is prince of the people [the second one on katsumoto's list].

If you don't mind, how are you getting the books so fast? 

Are you registered on GoogleBooks, GoogleScholar, or using one of those readers like Kindle or Nook?

isale_gan2:

How does a slave leave voluntarily?

they were offered a choice i presume.

Leave voluntarily or face harsher consequences. Also, many were free blacks.

If you don't mind, how are you getting the books so fast?

Are you registered on GoogleBooks, GoogleScholar, or using one of those readers like Kindle or Nook?

i had the book before katsumoto's link.

Kilode?!:

^^ I enjoyed reading that. The whole Brazil-Oyo-Dahomey historical connection is intriguing especially that Bahia. I bet a good researcher will get plenty of stuff from that Brazilian State, especially if you can speak Portuguese.

There is a lot information in Bahia for anyone that is interested. There are a few places where you can go and you may get lucky if you run into the old timers who have kept the African traditions alive.  Pelourinho and the Modelo Market in Comerccio are good places to find those who can assist with such research. The old slave quarters in the Favelas are also good but I wouldn’t recommend a stranger to go there without a local person. But I don’t know how much information a researcher can obtain anyway.  The basement in the Modelo Market is where slaves were chained before being taken to market. The basement was below sea level and many slaves drowned when the tides were high.

cheikh:

kilode?!
@Kilode?!    ^^ The  Bolded is very on point about Brazil and the Portuguese. The Portuguese were never an [b]aggressive lot like her fellow European journey men. Remember that her initial contact with the Bini Kingdom was relatively respectful and equal hence ambassadors were exchanged etc. [/b]
The size of Brazil and the Quilombos or free states or territories controlled by runaway or free slaves was important in infusing relative sense of autonomy and maintaining cultural practices like in Salvadore/Bahia etc. The Language and cultural practices thing is not very clearcut as most people will like to propagate bearing in mind that the gulf of Guinea axis from Togo - Angola have some practices that can be described as very close or identical in practices. In my travels / Brazil and Haiti in particular, I think that some of the influences can be also be attributed to the Kongo/Angola basin e.g.(Capoeira) and even the world famous Rio carnival etc,  Benin( R.P) and Togo also not far from modern day Yorubaland can actually legitimately lay claim too.
You and Katsumoto are on point and too much .

Well actually the Portuguese had a different strategy in conquering Brazil. In Brazil they used conquistadors just like the Spanish used them in other Latin American countries. The conquistadors were very mean and brutal often eliminating whole villages. Even though Brazil gained its independence in 1822, the Portuguese didn’t really leave Brazil. The Conquistadors were still clearing Indian villages as recently as the fifties. Now why did the Portuguese pursue this brutal strategy which was different from the friendly but cunning strategy used in most parts of Africa (they were brutal in a few places)?

1. The Portuguese, like the Spanish, were looking for gold and other resources in South America. They weren’t aware that Africa had more natural resources.
2. The Portuguese had to pursue the same strategy used by the Spanish to conquer the same kinds of people
3. Portugal being a small country couldn’t afford to have similar sized armies in different parts of the world. In other words, they were stretched
4. The Portuguese signed the Treaty of Tordesillas in 1494 with the Spanish and as long as they didn’t break that treaty, they were free to do as they wished in Brazil. They didn’t have such a treaty in Africa with the other great empires such as the British and the French. A brutal campaign wouldn’t have been in their best interests as they would have lost to the bigger empires.
5. They needed slaves for the sugar plantations and diamond fields in Brazil and felt that stealing strong black people from Africa was the better option.

@Katsumoto
Thank you for your insight on the Portuguese. They also had a treaty with the British for protection against the Spaniards too hence much of their territories were usurped by the British from Africa to Asia. The Portuguese in Brazil and perhaps in her African colony of Angola actively promoted miscegenation in order to "whiten" Brazil hence the peculiar "colour" issues pervasive in Brazil. They have over ten "colour" gradation and descriptions. It's extremely disheartening and sad for those of "pure" African or 'black' coloration despite their huge population. The story of Brazil though interesting to us, but it is extremely painful for our kith and kin in south America. The language barrier has conspired to mask and prevent smooth exchange of information that perhaps might inspire a different consciousness in our people, literally living in slavery never mind the tourist image of the place. I was a little chuffed when Obama came into power and the impact it might have on the psyche of South Americans in relation to their very perverse perception of Africa and black people generally beyond Pele or football. The story of our kith and kin in Latin America is indeed unique in human experience till this day.

The story of Brazil though interesting to us, but it is extremely painful for black people in south America

true, but i think by and large, their heritage and history is still there.

tpia@

they were, in the congo.
and they were in west africa to get slaves, nothing more.

@tpia
I accept that at the end of the day they 'traded' in slaves etc but we are talking in relative terms here. If you carefully analyse their presence in Africa, they were [b]less confrontational [/b]until during the wars of liberation in her Africa colonies. Often times, they collaborated or signed some sort of treaties with local Chiefs(Dahomey), Kongo(the queen), Nigeria(Bini) and Badagry, Cameroons(Chiefs) Guinea and Ivory Coast(chiefs) etc. History has so many interpretations or versions, but we know some of our local history is littered with contradictions pertaining to our active participation in the sad episodes. We cannot absolve ourselves from such ugliness. We can only learn and grow from it hopefully, not gloss over it as mere victims.

Initially africans that went abroad went to work as free workers. Not as slaves. Until Europeans got smarter and realised that they were so far from home any way and their people would not know the difference if they were mistreated and unpaid. Europeans learnt the idea of slavery from African's who were the original slavers, but treated their slaves with a bit more dignity. Almost every rich home or chief had personal slaves. So yes, Africans had been traveling for a long time in search of work, adventure, education, etc. Not every slave in Europe went there as a slave. Some were indentured servants or free workers.