Why believe in an invisible person? GOD
Most people will discard the idea of believing (trusting) in a person they can't see but does that really indicates smartness on their part?

Let's share our views.
When it comes to trust mostly we trust in many things we can't see yet we rely on this things solely with all our heart.

Good morning!

Good morning dear, are you born again?

ejighikemeuwa:
Good morning dear, are you born again?

Good morning!
The word BORN AGAIN has different meanings to people so what exactly do you mean by the word BORN AGAIN?
May you have PEACE!

To believe means trust so does it makes sense trusting someone or something you can't see?

Let's say you want to go somewhere, it seems everything is ok when you think of your body, clothes, food, car engine, fuel, the road and every other things visible to your eyes.
But is there something that's most important but invisible that you must fully trust?

MaxInDHouse:
To believe means trust so does it makes sense trusting someone or something you can't see?

Let's say you want to go somewhere, it seems everything is ok when you think of your body, clothes, food, car engine, fuel, the road and every other things visible to your eyes.
But is there something that's most important but invisible that you must fully trust?

YES! We often forgets the most important thing we need to trust simply because it's free and invisible!

There was a day my friend and i were going to mark the 27th wedding anniversary of our friend, we drove through a place that's always crowded but that day we had see anyone instead of suspecting that something has gone wrong we were happy that there is no go-slow.

We got to my friends house and it's time to come down from the car that's when we knew what has happened. Teargas has been shot in all the place so the OXYGEN we needed for fresh breath has been damaged. I managed to drag my friend into the building as i keep pressing the bell and the celebrants refused to open. Then i pick up my mobile and called that's when he rushed downstairs to open, we rushed in and the door was shot quickly.
He later explained that some hoodlums came to the area and it's the police that shot teargas everywhere.
That day i learned a lesson:
OXYGEN is something we also need to trust before going anywhere but because it's free and invisible hardly do we think of this most important thing we need to continue living~ OXYGEN!

So must we see God PHYSICALLY before we believe in His existence?

Who are modern day Pharisees?

MaxInDHouse:
Who are modern day Pharisees?

Pharisees in the first century Jewish nation were a politically motivated religious group ruling among the Jews back then.
The Romans colonized their nation so unlike what was written in the mosaic laws that God appoints the High priest only from the lineage of Levi it's the Romans that appoints the high priest in the first century to keep the Jews under control.
So these group was playing a diplomatic game of politics with the Roman empire.
According to the scriptures a Messiah (Christ) will be born among the Jews and he will destroy all the kingdoms of the world (including the Roman Empire) and this Messiah will reign forever! Daniel 2:44
So the Pharisees were nursing the ambition that anytime this Messiah comes they will work with him to overthrow Rome (the then world power) and serve as co-rulers with the Christ. But to their surprise no such Messiah surfaced and those that tried to make such moves died miserably! Act 5:36-37
When Jesus of Nazareth began his ministry, the Pharisees who knew most scriptures that talked about the Messiah started trailing him, their conviction that Jesus has proved to be the Christ is found in the comments of a prominent member of that group named Nicodemus {John 3:2} even most of their people realized that Jesus has done everything they heard about the Christ from John the baptist whom they held as a prophet! John 10:41-42

But this Jesus highly disappointed the Pharisees because he was a humble person not an arrogant or tyrant man they expected so they stubbornly rejected him even when they knew he has all the potentials and credentials of the Messiah! John 7:46

So the question comes again:

Who are modern day Pharisees?

MaxInDHouse:


Pharisees in the first century Jewish nation were a politically motivated religious group ruling among the Jews back then.
The Romans colonized their nation so unlike what was written in the mosaic laws that God appoints the High priest only from the lineage of Levi it's the Romans that appoints the high priest in the first century to keep the Jews under control.
So these group was playing a diplomatic game of politics with the Roman empire.
According to the scriptures a Messiah (Christ) will be born among the Jews and he will destroy all the kingdoms of the world (including the Roman Empire) and this Messiah will reign forever! Daniel 2:44
So the Pharisees were nursing the ambition that anytime this Messiah comes they will work with him to overthrow Rome (the then world power) and serve as co-rulers with the Christ. But to their surprise no such Messiah surfaced and those that tried to make such moves died miserably! Act 5:36-37
When Jesus of Nazareth began his ministry, the Pharisees who knew most scriptures that talked about the Messiah started trailing him, their conviction that Jesus has proved to be the Christ is found in the comments of a prominent member of that group named Nicodemus {John 3:2} even most of their people realized that Jesus has done everything they heard about the Christ from John the baptist whom they held as a prophet! John 10:41-42

But this Jesus highly disappointed the Pharisees because he was a humble person not an arrogant or tyrant man they expected so they stubbornly rejected him even when they knew he has all the potentials and credentials of the Messiah! John 7:46

So the question comes again:

Who are modern day Pharisees?

Funny enough, the modern day Pharisees are the 8 men who make up the Governing Body of your organization, followed by their helpers, down to the branch committee members, and elders in the local congregations.

There you have it.

oteneaaron:

Funny enough, the modern day Pharisees are the 8 men who make up the Governing Body of your organization, followed by their helpers, down to the branch committee members, and elders in the local congregations.
There you have it.

Do the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses have such authority to demand for the killing of anyone who overstep their laws the same way Pharisees demanded that Jesus should be killed? John 19:12

Are they ranked by any worldly authorities the same way the Pharisees were highly ranked by the Roman Authorities back in Jesus' day? John 18:35


Do they have any authority over society at large apart from fellow JWs who willingly subjected him/herself under their supervision? John 12:42


Do they treat people under their supervision as sinners to be trampled under foot the same way Pharisees look down on their fellow Jews? John 9:34


Do they support revolution or organize protests against other religions the same way Pharisees do stage such chaos in the first century? Act 14:19

Do they have any say over the voting in or out anyone in public offices? Act 17:6-7

Jesus said:
"By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit". Matthew 7:16-18

Come on my friend, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses have produced the most peaceful and peaceloving citizens everywhere they go. So you've been thoroughly brainwashed if you liken them to the first century Jewish Pharisees!

MaxInDHouse:


YES! We often forgets the most important thing we need to trust simply because it's free and invisible!

There was a day my friend and i were going to mark the 27th wedding anniversary of our friend, we drove through a place that's always crowded but that day we had see anyone instead of suspecting that something has gone wrong we were happy that there is no go-slow.

We got to my friends house and it's time to come down from the car that's when we knew what has happened. Teargas has been shot in all the place so the OXYGEN we needed for fresh breath has been damaged. I managed to drag my friend into the building as i keep pressing the bell and the celebrants refused to open. Then i pick up my mobile and called that's when he rushed downstairs to open, we rushed in and the door was shot quickly.
He later explained that some hoodlums came to the area and it's the police that shot teargas everywhere.
That day i learned a lesson:
OXYGEN is something we also need to trust before going anywhere but because it's free and invisible hardly do we think of this most important thing we need to continue living~ OXYGEN!

So must we see God PHYSICALLY before we believe in His existence?

Why do you need to trust oxygen? That is a very strange thing to say.

LordReed:

Why do you need to trust oxygen? That is a very strange thing to say.

We learn everyday.
That faithful day i discovered that OXYGEN is something we must rely upon for survival but because it's cheap and invisible we have taken it for granted. It's only when we find ourselves in places where the air has been polluted then educated ones among us will remember that we need OXYGEN to keep living!

MaxInDHouse:


YES! We often forgets the most important thing we need to trust simply because it's free and invisible!

There was a day my friend and i were going to mark the 27th wedding anniversary of our friend, we drove through a place that's always crowded but that day we had see anyone instead of suspecting that something has gone wrong we were happy that there is no go-slow.

We got to my friends house and it's time to come down from the car that's when we knew what has happened. Teargas has been shot in all the place so the OXYGEN we needed for fresh breath has been damaged. I managed to drag my friend into the building as i keep pressing the bell and the celebrants refused to open. Then i pick up my mobile and called that's when he rushed downstairs to open, we rushed in and the door was shot quickly.
He later explained that some hoodlums came to the area and it's the police that shot teargas everywhere.
That day i learned a lesson:
OXYGEN is something we also need to trust before going anywhere but because it's free and invisible hardly do we think of this most important thing we need to continue living~ OXYGEN!

So must we see God PHYSICALLY before we believe in His existence?

These people have come again now.
Oxygen is invisible but you can measure it, observe it, and interact with it physically. None of that applies to God.
Do you really think the biggest problem with God's existence is the fact that you can't see him with your four eyes? If that was the only issue, it wouldn't even be a problem. After all, I didn't see when I was born with my own two eyes, would that mean I was never born?

diridiri:

These people have come again now.
Oxygen is invisible but you can measure it, observe it, and interact with it physically. None of that applies to God.
Do you really think the biggest problem with God's existence is the fact that you can't see him with your four eyes? If that was the only issue, it wouldn't even be a problem. After all, I didn't see when I was born with my own two eyes, would that mean I was never born?

So what evidence do you have to prove that you were born if you never witnessed it?
Is it not the continuous system of how people are been born?
Well God is a spirit (Invisible Supreme Being) the evidence of His existence is found in the things He created and how perfect it has been for thousands of years till now.
Therefore who ever wants to MEASURE, OBSERVE or INTERACT with God only need to follow the protocol not ignoring the protocol and trying to set rules for Him just as you can't set rules for OXYGEN you just have to study really hard to deal with it even when it's freely given to everyone! Matthew 5:45

MaxInDHouse:


We learn everyday.
That faithful day i discovered that OXYGEN is something we must rely upon for survival but because it's cheap and invisible we have taken it for granted. It's only when we find ourselves in places where the air has been polluted then educated ones among us will remember that we need OXYGEN to keep living!

Yeah but you don't even even think about it talk more of trusting in oxygen. That just sounds so contrived, you are trying to force the scenario to fit into your narrative. It doesn't work cos that's not how we think or talk about oxygen.

MaxInDHouse:


So what evidence do you have to prove that you were born if you never witnessed it?
Is it not the continuous system of how people are been born?
Well God is a spirit (Invisible Supreme Being) the evidence of His existence is found in the things He created and how perfect it has been for thousands of years till now.
Therefore who ever wants to MEASURE, OBSERVE or INTERACT with God only need to follow the protocol not ignoring the protocol and trying to set rules for Him just as you can't set rules for OXYGEN you just have to study really hard to deal with it even when it's freely given to everyone! Matthew 5:45

You can't set rules for Oxygen but we know how it interacts with other components of the world, because of observations we made on it.
We can't observe God by definition. We can't measure him and make rules about how he operates. We just have to guess by reading millennia old books claiming to have been written by people that talked to people that talked to God, supposedly.

The rules that God supposedly operates on are arbitrary and nonsensical. Would you just automatically believe me if I said that breathing Oxygen cures gingivitis because someone told me that someone told me that a book said that Oxygen said so?

LordReed:

Yeah but you don't even even think about it talk more of trusting in oxygen. That just sounds so contrived, you are trying to force the scenario to fit into your narrative. It doesn't work cos that's not how we think or talk about oxygen.

You have to trust it by moving everywhere you like because you know oxygen is there yet you can't see it with your physical eyes.
So demanding you must see God before believing He exist is self deceit if you trust in oxygen without seeing it!

diridiri:

You can't set rules for Oxygen but we know how it interacts with other components of the world, because of observations we made on it.
We can't observe God by definition. We can't measure him and make rules about how he operates. We just have to guess by reading millennia old books claiming to have been written by people that talked to people that talked to God, supposedly.

The rules that God supposedly operates on are arbitrary and nonsensical. Would you just automatically believe me if I said that breathing Oxygen cures gingivitis because someone told me that someone told me that a book said that Oxygen said so?

You can't set rules for OXYGEN my friend you just have to abide by it's ways, the same applies to God. As for what God said through the Bible you only need to get the the right channel in order to know what is needed about God just as you don't expect fact from everyone who claims they know about gases, you need to be sure you're in the right place!

MaxInDHouse:


You can't set rules for OXYGEN my friend you just have to abide by it's ways, the same applies to God. As for what God said through the Bible you only need to get the the right channel in order to know what is needed about God just as you don't expect everyone who claims they know about gases, you need to be sure you're in the right place!

It seems a large chunk of my comment was ignored. Consequently, your response reads more like a reiteration of your previous comment than an actual response. That's OK, though, I'll just not bring up that topic of discussion again.

On an unrelated note, you're a Jehovah's Witness, yes?
Is it true that Jehovah's Witness' don't believe in the Trinity? Out of genuine curiosity, how would you interpret John 1?
I'm certain that Matthew, Mark, and Luke never directly claim that Jesus was God himself, but John is sharply aberrant from the other three gospels in this regard. Do you think that "the Word" does not refer to Jesus?

diridiri:

It seems a large chunk of my comment was ignored. Consequently, your response reads more like a reiteration of your previous comment than an actual response. That's OK, though, I'll just not bring up that topic of discussion again.

On an unrelated note, you're a Jehovah's Witness, yes?
Is it true that Jehovah's Witness' don't believe in the Trinity? Out of genuine curiosity, how would you interpret John 1?
I'm certain that Matthew, Mark, and Luke never directly claim that Jesus was God himself, but John is sharply aberrant from the other three gospels in this regard. Do you think that "the Word" does not refer to Jesus?

All servants of God believe that Moses was made a God and Aaron his brother was made his prophet {Exodus 7:1} therefore when John said the word was a god it's the misinterpretation of translators that caused the confusion there. Jesus is the Word of God and he was God just as Moses was God {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} but Jesus has a Father who is our Father and God who is also our God {John 20:17} so it doesn't make Jesus the Almighty God!

MaxInDHouse:


You have to trust it by moving everywhere you like because you know oxygen is there yet you can't see it with your physical eyes.
So demanding you must see God before believing He exist is self deceit if you trust in oxygen without seeing it!

Please show where I demanded I must see god. You've started with your daydreams again.

BTW moving everywhere I like is not indication I trust oxygen, stop trying to hard to make a point that doesn't even rhyme.

LordReed:

Please show where I demanded I must see god. You've started with your daydreams again.

BTW moving everywhere I like is not indication I trust oxygen, stop trying to hard to make a point that doesn't even rhyme.

Ògbéni you can deceive yourself but not right thinking persons. if you don't have anything to do with seeing before believing then what makes you an atheist?

LordReed:

Because the spirits aren't available to respond for themselves. Is that not why you are umbilically linked to your organisation? Your organisation listens to the spirits then tells you what the spirits say.

MaxInDHouse:


Ògbéni you can deceive yourself but not right thinking persons. if you don't have anything to do with seeing before believing then what makes you an atheist?

LoL! OMFD! When did respond becoming seeing? Omo your daydreams are becoming nightmares. Bwahahahahaha!

MaxInDHouse:


All servants of God believe that Moses was made a God and Aaron his brother was made his prophet {Exodus 7:1} therefore when John said the word was a god it's the misinterpretation of translators that caused the confusion there. Jesus is the Word of God and he was God just as Moses was God {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} but Jesus has a Father who is our Father and God who is also our God {John 20:17} so it doesn't make Jesus the Almighty God!

How would you interpret Jesus being the Word of God, then? Does that just mean he is God's mouthpiece?

LordReed:


LoL! OMFD! When did respond becoming seeing? Omo your daydreams are becoming nightmares. Bwahahahahaha!

Keep deceiving yourself, if you believe there's oxygen then you need to show me without any long process failure to do so simply means you have no excuse whatsoever to doubt the existence of an invisible supreme being whose presence is felt in the gathering of His human worshipers!

diridiri:

How would you interpret Jesus being the Word of God, then? Does that just mean he is God's mouthpiece?

You're getting things right yourself so try to think outside the box of trinity for a moment and you'll fully understand what John meant in that verse.
@ Exodus 13:21 we read that JEHOVAH (the Almighty God) was moving ahead of the camp of Israel like a pillar of cloud by day and at night the pillar will turn to light.
But chapter 14:19 later revealed that it was an angel that they were seeing not JEHOVAH Himself.

@ Genesis 18:1 it was recorded that JEHOVAH appeared to Abraham but John later revealed that "no man has seen God at any time" {John 1:18} therefore it's evident that the angel who has always appeared to ancient servants of God was acting as God's representative all that time that's why John could say he WAS God's mouthpiece that they've been hearing all along! John 1:1

MaxInDHouse:


You're getting things right yourself so try to think outside the box of trinity for a moment and you'll fully understand what John meant in that verse.
@ Exodus 13:21 we read that JEHOVAH (the Almighty God) was moving ahead of the camp of Israel like a pillar of cloud by day and at night the pillar will turn to light.
But chapter 14:19 later revealed that it was an angel that they were seeing not JEHOVAH Himself.

@ Genesis 18:1 it was recorded that JEHOVAH appeared to Abraham but John later revealed that "no man has seen God at any time" {John 1:18} therefore it's evident that the angel who has always appeared to ancient servants of God was acting as God's representative all that time that's why John could say he WAS God's mouthpiece that they've been hearing all along! John 1:1

Ok, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I wanted to know how exactly non-Trinitarianism worked.

diridiri:

Ok, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I wanted to know how exactly non-Trinitarianism worked.

It's trinitarians that's misconstruing God's word, anyone could have picked up the Bible and see logical reasoning to find certain things on his/her own, then there will be little to interpret which will also harmonize with other parts of the scriptures. But trinitarianism has complicated everything that's why they always say God's word is a mystery as they locked themselves in a box.
For instance there is no logical reasoning to back up the teaching of eternal torment, God clearly stated in the Bible book of Genesis that Adam only had two options it's either he obey God's life saving instructions or die due to disobedience {Genesis 3:17} so at death Adam becomes lifeless unable to further cause harm to himself and others! Ecclesiastes 9:5-10
Apostle Paul emphasized that death is the wages of sin {Romans 6:23} therefore man pay with his life for his sin! Romans 6:7

But due to the wickedness in the hearts of trinitarians they feel death shouldn't end it all there should be another punishment for those that hurt them after death please ask anyone who preach this a simple question and see how confused they will be:

People who have good manners but refused to leave their traditional religion until they die will they go to heaven or HellFire since it's only believers in Jesus that will have everlasting life?
Then a trinitarian will flash back to his grandma or grandpa who was a traditionalists but lived a good life, he will not know how to say such a person will continue to suffer in his imaginary Hellfire!

MaxInDHouse:


Keep deceiving yourself, if you believe there's oxygen then you need to show me without any long process failure to do so simply means you have no excuse whatsoever to doubt the existence of an invisible supreme being whose presence is felt in the gathering of His human worshipers!

LoL! Here you go:

See attached image

So I have reason to doubt your god now right? LMFAO!

LordReed:

LoL! Here you go:
See attached image
So I have reason to doubt your god now right? LMFAO!

There you go my friend!
OXYGEN is gas whatever makes you perceive it as liquid simply means you can also perceive God by observing IMPERFECT humans as they are organized in a PERFECT way, thank you!

MaxInDHouse:


There you go my friend!
OXYGEN is gas whatever makes you perceive it as liquid simply means you can also perceive God by observing IMPERFECT humans as they are organized in a PERFECT way, thank you!

So the imperfect humans are the god in visible form? There is no people organized in a perfect way, don't kid yourself. Your cult is a high control organisation that is all. Your organisation's failures are so much on record they even attempt to manipulate their history to pull the wool over your eyes. Only umbilically tied individuals like you continue to be fed the mush they call truth and you swallow it hook, line and sinker. Those who realise they are being feed a diet of bullshìt leave your organisation and find better information.

LordReed:

So the imperfect humans are the god in visible form? There is no people organized in a perfect way, don't kid yourself. Your cult is a high control organisation that is all. Your organisation's failures are so much on record they even attempt to manipulate their history to pull the wool over your eyes. Only umbilically tied individuals like you continue to be fed the mush they call truth and you swallow it hook, line and sinker. Those who realise they are being feed a diet of bullshìt leave your organisation and find better information.

The highlighted is all i need in your pathetic post.
They left an ORGANIZATION for a better INFORMATION (NOT ORGANIZATION)
So who is fooling who?
If i joined a well organized and orderly people for a reason there's nothing stopping me from leaving such a group for another BETTER PERFORMING group, but leaving for a BETTER INFORMATION now sounds strange Sir!

MaxInDHouse:


The highlighted is all i need in your pathetic post.
They left an ORGANIZATION for a better INFORMATION (NOT ORGANIZATION)
So who is fooling who?
If i joined a well organized and orderly people for a reason there's nothing stopping me from leaving such a group for another BETTER PERFORMING group, but leaving for a BETTER INFORMATION now sounds strange Sir!

LoL! There goes the control cult programming. Bwahahahahaha. Yeah cultists like you think everyone needs to be it a high control cult like yours. No sir, we can live better lives with better information rather your lemming like control group. If your cult is a sign your god is as fictional as Sauron.