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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse (14242 Views)
Maxindhouse,janosky & Other Jehovah's Witnesses, Come In Here: / MaxInDHouse Of Jehovah's Witnesses Has Confessed That Jesus Is God / Is Jesus God? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by 22jumpstreet: 7:40am On Feb 28, 2022 |
psychalade: I am not religious.... |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by oteneaaron(m): 7:41am On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: This is weak Max. If they were really eye witness accounts, why do they contradict each other? Why did Mathew and Luke copy word for word from Mark? Or are you saying Mark was not the first Gospel written? Moreso, Mark was not even one of the diciples of Jesus. So explain this to me. Mark was the first Gospel written - by a man who was NOT even one of the diciples. Mathew and Luke who are supposed to be diciples of Jesus, their own Gospel came after Mark, and have been proven to have copied word for word from Mark. And still they contradict each other - why? If they were really eye witness accounts why don't the stories align? Why are we reading about different Jesus's with almost different characteristics? 2 Likes |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by 22jumpstreet: 7:48am On Feb 28, 2022 |
cornelboy: Picture jugement day, and you standing in front of holy court. God is not going to ask you if you believed the Bible, he is going to judge you based on your reactions to his laws. I told you not to kill, did you kill? Did you steal? Did you dishonor your parents Did you commit adultery Did you care for your neigbour Did you take his name in vain ...etc. He is not going to ask you if you believe he impregnated another man's wife to sire a son that will be sacrificed to him, in other to convince himself to forgive you...he has already told you that the son will not bear the sin of the father and vice versa...... I guess that is what you have not understood... 1 Like |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by oteneaaron(m): 7:48am On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Did you even read the Antiquities of the Jews written Josephus? If you did you would have known that the passage you refer to is called the Testimonium Flavavium, which was only added 300 years after the original, by a known fraud called the Bishop Eusebius of Caesera. Or didn't you do any of this background research before mentioning Josephus? Interesting. This does not prove that Jesus really did exist. Prove me wrong. 1 Like |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:48am On Feb 28, 2022 |
oteneaaron: So because a liar once quoted you means you never said what he quoted shey? You could have been deceived due to the selfish cravings in your heart but your so called research is not sufficient enough to nullify the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth! We have read stories about people who lived long before Jesus so whatever you think is wrong with the history of Jesus will definitely affect all other historical figures! |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by oteneaaron(m): 7:55am On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: I took my time to show you proof. I have my references and I can share them with you. Show me the proof that Jesus existed. The Gospels alone do not hold water. And if you still insist, I have proofs to show you that recorded History does not even prove the Gospels to be true nor eye witness accounts. You mentioned Flavius Josephus, but that has been proven false as well. There is no proof he actually said this words, and I have broken it down above. 2 Likes |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:58am On Feb 28, 2022 |
oteneaaron: Presumptuousness is your problem! Why not first ask me what i meant when i mentioned Flavius Josephus? Well for everyone following this thread please i'll advise you all to Google "Flavius Josephus on John the baptist" and see the following for yourselves: In the war between the Jews and the Romans of 66-70, the Jewish general Joseph son of Matthias defended Galilee against the Roman legions. After he had been defeated, he defected to his enemies, and advised the Roman general Vespasian. When the latter became emperor, his adviser started a career as a historian who tried to explain Judaism to the Greeks and Romans. His works are the Jewish War, the Jewish Antiquities, an Autobiography and an apology of Judaism called Against the Greeks (or Against Apion). As Roman citizen, he accepted a new name: Flavius Josephus. He must have died about 100, more than sixty years old. Machaerus, where John the Baptist was executed. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (37-c.100) describes in his Jewish Antiquities the destruction of the army of the Jewish leader Herod Antipas. Many people thought that this was a divine punishment, because Antipas had ordered the execution of a just man, John the Baptist. Though the Jewish religious leaders fought really hard to bury the history of Jesus {Act 4:18; 5:28} but they committed a grievous blunder! How? They forgot that even if they expelled people from their synagogues as punishment for believing in Jesus {John 9:22; 12:42} they can't erase the man who baptized Jesus Christ John the baptist because everyone believed that John was a real prophet! Luke 20:6 Even though Flavius Josephus is not a Christian he wrote about John the baptist the popular Jewish prophet in the first century who also baptized Jesus of Nazareth! It should be noted that John's assignment was divine because the God of the Jews had promised that a forerunner prophet will come to prepare the minds of the Jewish nation before the arrival of the Christ! Malachi 4:5 |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by oteneaaron(m): 7:59am On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Oh so you admit that a LIAR and Master of FORGERY quoted Josephus. Why wait until 300 years later? Why didn't the early Christian writers who were alive when Josephus was alive and had direct access to his book not quote that passage? It is because he never mentioned those words, in fact Josephus never knew of any Jesus. So if you agree that Bishop Eusebius was a LIAR and a FRAUD, why should we believe that the quote he made of the TESTIMONIUM FLAVANIUM should be taken with a pinch of salt as actual history? 1 Like |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by oteneaaron(m): 8:03am On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Oh so do you admit that a LIAR and Master of FORGERY quoted Josephus. Why did we have to wait until 300 years after the original book was written by Josephus? Why didn't the early Christian writers who were alive when Josephus was alive and had direct access to his book not quote that passage? It is because he never mentioned those words, in fact Josephus never knew of any Jesus. So if you agree that Bishop Eusebius was a LIAR and a FRAUD, why should we believe that the quote he made of the TESTIMONIUM FLAVANIUM should be taken with a pinch of salt as actual history? 1 Like |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by oteneaaron(m): 8:07am On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Me Presumptuous? How? How many Flavius Josephus's do we have? Show me the proof from the actual Antiquities of the Jews. I showed you proof didn't I? 1 Like |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:19am On Feb 28, 2022 |
oteneaaron: I have quoted directly from the same book written by Flavius Josephus where he mentioned "John the baptist" so prove that he didn't mention John the same man who baptized Jesus Christ! |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:21am On Feb 28, 2022 |
oteneaaron: Did Flavius mention John the baptist? |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by 22jumpstreet: 8:31am On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Common MaxInDHouse, you are wiser than this.. JK Rowling mentions queen Elizabeth in her books about Harry Potter, those it mean Harry Potter is real ? 3 Likes |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by cornelboy(f): 8:33am On Feb 28, 2022 |
Do you think Moses parting the red sea is a myth? It's didn't happen? How do you read, learn the principles without believing? Do you believe in Jesus, do you believe the Bible as TRUE, what's your religion? 22jumpstreet: |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by oteneaaron(m): 8:49am On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Very interesting point. So for a moment, let's agree that he did mention John the Baptist. Remember that Josephus wrote the Antiquities at least 60 years after Jesus was said to have died. And the Gospels tell us that the day Jesus died, there was eclipse of the sun, there was an earthquake, the curtain in the holy of holies was ripped in two, and streets were littered with dead people. These are events that must have been witnessed by millions of people, both Jews and Romans. If Jesus really did existed and these world shaking events really did occur, why didn't Josephus our beloved contemporary source not even mention any of these in any of his records. Why is his mention of John the Baptist the only proof that Jesus existed? Kindly Enlighten me. 2 Likes |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by 22jumpstreet: 9:25am On Feb 28, 2022 |
cornelboy:The message is true...NOT the story. It is just a story. Moses story means...you should continue to move forward, God will clear all obstacles for you.. "March on, God will path the sea for you..." THERE IS AND WAS NEVER ANY NEED FOR JESUS. HE GOT NOTHING WHATSOVER TO DO WITH THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by 22jumpstreet: 9:30am On Feb 28, 2022 |
cornelboy: The story is a lie, the message is true... Just like peter pan, We all know it is about friendship. There is no place like Neverland.... Religion is just a burden created by elites to help you waste your time and control you...God only created a Human being, and gave us laws on how to live in peace...No war ..but Putin will net hear. 1 Like |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by cornelboy(f): 9:39am On Feb 28, 2022 |
How were the children of Israel freed from slavery in the hands of Pharaoh? The stories na lies but the messages are true Interesting! 22jumpstreet: |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by 22jumpstreet: 9:42am On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Sorry to cut in If Jesus existed, who was he? Definitely he was not the Jewish Messiah, he was not a prophet, He was not a priest. If he was sent as a sacrifice to appease God, (even though God abhors human sacrifice) why did he not just say so and let the priest do it properly(cut his neck and let the blood flow to the ground) God never ordered Roman soldiers to carry out his sacrifice.. So many things are not right. He is useless to the Jewish course....why would a jew write about a nonentiry? 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by 22jumpstreet: 9:46am On Feb 28, 2022 |
cornelboy: They are spiritual stories.. not history. Those events are taking place within us. The battle is within. God is consciousness, not a man or human being. It means going from spiritual ignorance (slavery in egypt) to spiritual enlightenment (promise land).. It is all metaphor and allegory.. Life is about the journey.....not the destination. 2 Likes |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by cornelboy(f): 10:25am On Feb 28, 2022 |
22jumpstreet: So the nation of Israel today is spiritual |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by 22jumpstreet: 11:27am On Feb 28, 2022 |
cornelboy: Yes... The one in the middle east is a creation of the United nation in 1948.. 2 Likes |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:28am On Feb 28, 2022 |
22jumpstreet: Flavius Josephus wasn't writing a fictional story but what actually happened in the first century so John the baptist who baptized Jesus Christ is a real historical figure! 1 Like |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by 22jumpstreet: 11:33am On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Baptism is not a Jewish ritual. Hope you know that. It is from mithraism...educate yourself. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:40am On Feb 28, 2022 |
oteneaaron: What happened during Jesus' death couldn't have been noticed by unbelievers who surely will take it as normal events that could happen. Darkness that affected Egypt for three days wasn't global it's only within the area God wanted such to occur felt it so the same applies here. Earthquakes often affect some places where the next city of about 10 kilometers may not even feel it so that's not reason to doubt the account. Only those hypocrites in the temple knew what happened in the temple and they surely won't link such with the death of Jesus who they so much wanted to erase from history. It's not the major streets that were littered Sir but paths close to their cemetery. All of these means nothing to the Jewish religious leaders who were battle prepared to pay any price in other to bury Jesus' case! Matthew 27:25 So it's what matters to a Jew like Flavius Josephus he recorded in his account not events that will generate to findings about the man their religious leaders wanted to bury for good! |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:45am On Feb 28, 2022 |
22jumpstreet: This is the last time i will respond to you on this thread! If you want a debate please open your own thread and invite me the same way he just did, i already told you that this is not where this debate began but i purposely demanded we do this on a new thread. So if you want a debate about the historicity of Jesus Christ of Nazareth start your own thread and i'll join you. Thanks! |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:48am On Feb 28, 2022 |
cornelboy:Please brother Cornelboy stop responding to this guy it's just a two man debate and other interested persons are expected to follow not join in the discussion that's all! 1 Like |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by oteneaaron(m): 11:54am On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: This still does not explain why there is no record in history of those events. These were no normal events. Those were MAJOR EVENTS. Dead bodies came out of the grave, the curtain in the holy of holies was split in two, there was an eclipse - How is this normal? Obviously MILLIONS of people would have seen this, don't you think? If these things happened, there should have been a record in history, because this was something those people have never seen all their lives. Makes me remember the story of when Jesus thru a few loaves of bread and dishes, fed over 5000 men that is apart from women and children. At least we should have had a record in history of this too. No single record in history exist retelling this story. Why? 1 Like |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by oteneaaron(m): 12:12pm On Feb 28, 2022 |
I decided to post this here for posterity sake. MaxInDHouse pray tell how have you "humiliated" me on this thread?? MaxInDHouse: For the sake of posterity, kindly do a summary the points you have raised so far, to prove that Jesus is a real figure in history, and I will exactly the same thing. So much has been said on this thread. Therfore, I think it will be good if we summarized our points so far, so that you can show exactly how you have humiliated me on this thread. Thank you very much. 1 Like |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:15pm On Feb 28, 2022 |
oteneaaron: You're reasoning from the perspective while i am reasoning as trained by the intelligence! Lots of events could easily be buried in the midst of people who are expecting a warrior King but found out that the man that came in place of such a person never acted according to their expectations. Jesus' life and ministry all happened within Judea where the people were expecting some warrior to deliver them from the Romans. Everything having to do with him will surely be discarded after all he's just a nonentity to them since he couldn't save them from their enemies. When we go for operations in places where there is tension we often make thorough investigation otherwise the truth will not come out. So Jesus' disciples who recorded all these things were doing so at the cost of their lives because 99% of first century Jews were prepared to do away with anyone who say something good about Jesus of Nazareth! |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:23pm On Feb 28, 2022 |
oteneaaron: In the first century a man was known among the Jews who claims to be their Messiah. Instead of doing what they expected he was busy doing what he was programmed to do. Most of his contemporaries including many of his friends deserted him for this reason. By the end the religious rulers among the Jews decided to do away with him and bury his case but his loyalists were ready to take his teachings everywhere they go even if it means their lives. 2000 years later people still remember this man due to all the things written by his loyal and faithful friends, and today millions across the globe are practicing what he taught so that a global family of peace loving worshipers have emerged due to the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth! |
Re: Is Jesus Real Or A Myth? A Challenge For Maxindhouse by oteneaaron(m): 12:40pm On Feb 28, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: I don't know about you, but this still does not explain why there is no historical record to show that those events actually happened. Remember millions of people must have witnessed that event. And we just take the words of four guys for it and that's all? There is should be at least archeological proof perhaps? Do you have proof backed by data to show that these events occurred apart from in the Gospels? I thought we have covered that the Gospels were not even written by the actual disciples of Jesus? Is there an actual record in history that tells us that on the day Jesus died, there was an eclipse or the sun, the curtains in the holy of holes got rip in half, and dead bodies were littered on the road? That is what I am asking. Why should we depend only on the Gospels when we have seen that they were written at least over 70 years after Jesus was said to have died? At least I showed you that the earliest text is the new testament was the letters of Paul and not any of the Gospels. Or are you thinking this way because of how the Bible is presently arranged? Just to digress, in Nigeria in the mid 1960s, there was a Civil War. Millions of people died and they are countless records that show us that the Civil War actually happened. Till date there are historical records that show that the civil war happened. We even have a war mesuem that you can visit to see for yourself that the civil war actually happened. But for a story that is foundation of the faith of millions of people, why can't we at least see any actual archeological proof from history? 1 Like |
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