"One thing about Onisese(traditionalist) is that we are accommodating and tolerable to a fault.

The reason why it's like that is because Isese is too wide.

We have religion inside the religion (you will understand now).

Our religious system is created in a way that it allows us to coexist with others with different beliefs.

I believe in Ifa and I'm also an Omo Awo, I'm obligated to learn and know about Osun, Yemoja, Ogun, Obatala, Osanyin, Egbe and other Irunmole /Orisa.

I can know all these but if need be, I can still go meet those who are specialized in each Orisa for deep knowledge of it.

Someone can decide to only learn about Obatala and be a priest of the said Orisa. Nobody can stop such person from doing that as long as he/she is doing it right.

Guess what, if A Sango priest is doing festival, you will see other people who are not affiliated to Sango there eating and rejoicing with the person.

It's so sad what the world has turned to where people now kill on behalf of their Prophets.

If you have to kill to defend your religion, then you are better off without the religion in the first place.

Your religion should reflect in your character, attitude and most importantly, how you treat others.

We have thousands of religion, obviously yours alone can't be the only way to access the Supreme being.

Let's make love or language
Kindbess should be our religion.
~Owomide

Photo credit: Adegoke Ademidotun M"
Source: https://www.facebook.com/100001738721703/posts/5057394634328444/

Compare this humane and accommodating attitude of the Isese practitioners with the violent behavior of the average Nigerian Muslim, whether in the North or South, who regularly ridicules and demonizes the great ancestors of the Yorubas (for example), such as Orunmila, Obatala, Odua, and co.

Cc: lalasticlala, Seun

They are tolerant because they are in the miniscule minority.

Once they are in the majority, they are not different from the Islam cultist.

A001:
"One thing about Onisese(traditionalist) is that we are accommodating and tolerable to a fault.

The reason why it's like that is because Isese is too wide.

We have religion inside the religion (you will understand now).

Our religious system is created in a way that it allows us to coexist with others with different beliefs.

I believe in Ifa and I'm also an Omo Awo, I'm obligated to learn and know about Osun, Yemoja, Ogun, Obatala, Osanyin, Egbe and other Irunmole /Orisa.

I can know all these but if need be, I can still go meet those who are specialized in each Orisa for deep knowledge of it.

Someone can decide to only learn about Obatala and be a priest of the said Orisa. Nobody can stop such person from doing that as long as he/she is doing it right.

Guess what, if A Sango priest is doing festival, you will see other people who are not affiliated to Sango there eating and rejoicing with the person.

It's so sad what the world has turned to where people now kill on behalf of their Prophets.

If you have to kill to defend your religion, then you are better off without the religion in the first place.

Your religion should reflect in your character, attitude and most importantly, how you treat others.

We have thousands of religion, obviously yours alone can't be the only way to access the Supreme being.

Let's make love or language
Kindbess should be our religion.
~Owomide

Photo credit: Adegoke Ademidotun M"
Source: https://www.facebook.com/100001738721703/posts/5057394634328444/

Seriously, only the Abrahamic faiths propagate the desire to dominate the whole world in the name of their god. What is so wrong in allowing people be? Why must you convert them to your beliefs or subjugate them with your religious practices?

I agree with you the traditionalists have it right in the area of tolerance, worship whatever god you care to, no disturbance.

LordReed:


Seriously, only the Abrahamic faiths propagate the desire to dominate the whole world in the name of their god. What is so wrong in allowing people be? Why must you convert them to your beliefs or subjugate them with your religious practices?

I agree with you the traditionalists have it right in the area of tolerance, worship whatever god you care to, no disturbance.

It's their god. Allah, like Yahweh, wants to rule and dominate the whole world.

There's even a chapter toward the end of the Qur'an that Muslims recite praying with the belief that the whole world will one day become Muslims.

The native gods like Olohun, Osanobua, Chineke and co. didn't have such ambition and so didn't design their religion with expansionistic and global agenda.

Since such a goal can only be realized within a relatively short time with the use of force and violence, Allah and Yahweh are violent gods.

But most of their counterparts in Africa are not.

NinjaXmetahuman:
They are tolerant because they are in the miniscule minority.

Once they are in the majority, they are not different from the Islam cultist.

Before the advent of Christianity what stories of intolerance from Sango worshippers are on record?

LordReed:


Before the advent of Christianity what stories of intolerance from Sango worshippers are on record?

Why go into the past that's filled with human sacrifice etc when you still have traditionalists doing oro day for example which doesn't allow women to go out? Or some masquerades that do not allow women and children when they are on the move?

The oro people used to arrest women if they come out during oro day not minding if they believe in oro or not. (Ti obirin ba fi oju doro, oro agbe)

Now, would you be happy if they arrest or even kill your wife or mother in the name of oro?


Most religions are peaceful until they start gaining ground and have the backing of the law and government.

NinjaXmetahuman:

Why go into the past that's filled with human sacrifice etc when you still have traditionalists doing oro day for example which doesn't allow women to go out. Or some masquerades that do not allow women and children when they are on the move?

The oro people used to arrest women if they come out during oro day not minding if they believe in oro or not. (Ti obirin ba fi oju doro, oro agbe)

Now, would you be happy if they arrest or even kill your wife or mother in the name of oro?


Most religions are peaceful until they start gaining ground and have the backing of the law and government.

I don't think you understand the traditional practice of Oro that you discussed.

Oro is mainly done during certain periods in a town or village when a king just died, or when inexplicable calamities are befalling the residents, to ward off evil spirits, according to the traditional beliefs.

It's more or less a curfew. Thus, your example on Oro isn't a factual one.

And yes, the traditionalists are more tolerant and accommodating than the Muslims and Christians.

The accommodating nature of the Yorubas is a widely known fact that's not even debatable.

Hope you know those traditionalists you see about in gatherings all worship different native gods or orishas, but you'll hardy see Yemoja worshippers attacking and converting Ogun or Sango devotees by force, unlike Christians and Muslims.

That's what we're saying about tolerance exhibited by the traditionalists.

Only the Sango worshippers are relatively a bit violent because Sango was a violent god (the god of thunder) with a similar temperament to vengeful gods like Allah and Yahweh.

But the other native gods were relatively peaceful, and even the concept of hellfire is alien to Isese (traditional beliefs) as the worshippers of the native pagan gods and goddesses believe in reincarnation, not in hell.

A Yoruba term like orun apadi was copied from Christianity.

It's because of the relative peaceful nature of the native gods that the indigenous religions didn't spread into the other continents by force, and that's one of the reasons our forefathers could be colonized by European and Arabs, who were warmongers like their gods, Allah and Yahweh.

The traditional religions only spread via slave trade.

In all cultures worldwide, the attitude of a people is primarily determined by the temperament of the god (their deified ancestor) they worship.

A001:

I don't think you understand the traditional practice of Oro that you discussed.

Oro is mainly done during certain periods in a town or village when a king just died, or when inexplicable calamities are befalling the residents, to ward off evil spirits, according to the tradition beliefs.

It's more or less a curfew. Thus, your example on Oro isn't a factual one.

And yes, the traditionalists are more tolerant and accommodating than the Muslims and Christians.

The accommodating nature of the Yorubas is a widely known fact that's not even debatable.

Hope you know those traditionalists you see about in gatherings all worship different native gods or orishas, but you'll hardy see Yemoja worshippers attacking and converting Ogun or Sango devotees by force, unlike Christians and Muslims.

That's what we're saying about tolerance exhibited by the traditionalists.

Only the Sango worshippers are relatively a bit violent because Sango was a violent god (the god of thunder) with a similar temperament to vengeful gods like Allah and Yahweh.

But the other native gods were relatively peaceful, and even the concept of hellfire is alien to Isese (traditional beliefs) as the worshippers of the native pagan gods and goddesses believe in reincarnation, not in hell.

A Yoruba term like orun apadi was copied from Christianity.

It's because of the relative peaceful nature of the native gods that the indigenous religions didn't spread into the other continents by force, and that's one of the reasons our forefathers could be colonized by European and Arabs, who were warmongers like their gods, Allah and Yahweh.

The traditional religions only spread via slave trade.

In all cultures worldwide, the attitude of a people is primarily determined by the temperament of the god (their deified ancestor) they worship.

what is not factual about what I said about oro?
The fact that they arrest or sometimes kill women that refused to stay inside during oro?

You only talked about why they do oro, you didn't deny that they do arrest and sometimes kill women.

So what makes it not factual?


And how is that tolerant to other people who don't believe in oro or those who just believe they should just pray for a dead king instead of declaring curfew that denies just women of every religion their freedom to go out?


Some religions are more tolerant than the other but that doesn't change the fact that most religions are not very tolerant.
And all should be done away with.

NinjaXmetahuman:
what is not factual about what I said about oro?
The fact that they arrest or sometimes kill women that refused to stay inside during oro?

You only talked about why they do oro, you didn't deny that they do arrest and sometimes kill women.

Yes, it's a practice with barbaric acts. In the pre-colonization days when different cities and towns in Yoruba region were governed by kings, Oro was done as a curfew.

Even today, anyone found walking about during a curfew is punished by the authorities.

Thus, all curfews have punitive measures.

But the manner of giving the punishment is what is barbaric about Oro as a curfew practice.

And it's incorrect citing a curfew practice like Oro with punitive measures to back the assertion that traditional religions are just as violent as their foreign counterparts.

NinjaXmetahuman:

Some religions are more tolerant than the other but that doesn't change the fact that most religions are not very tolerant.
And all should be done away with.

Agreed.

The problem is POLITICS not RELIGION!

As long as religionists have the upper hand in the political affairs of any society there can't be tolerance.
The so called ìṣẹ̀ṣe people has been reduced to nothing as in humiliated in the society by the colonial masters so they're not tolerant as you think. It's because they have no say in the political affairs of the country.

NinjaXmetahuman:

Why go into the past that's filled with human sacrifice etc when you still have traditionalists doing oro day for example which doesn't allow women to go out? Or some masquerades that do not allow women and children when they are on the move?

The oro people used to arrest women if they come out during oro day not minding if they believe in oro or not. (Ti obirin ba fi oju doro, oro agbe)

Now, would you be happy if they arrest or even kill your wife or mother in the name of oro?


Most religions are peaceful until they start gaining ground and have the backing of the law and government.

I agree, religion should be kept out of government. However the focus here is on religious discrimination, traditionalists are not discriminatory that note.

A001:

It's their god. Allah, like Yahweh, wants to rule and dominate the whole world.

There's even a chapter toward the end of the Qur'an that Muslims recite praying with the belief that the whole world will one day become Muslims.

The native gods like Olohun, Osanobua, Chineke and co. didn't have such ambition and so didn't design their religion with expansionistic and global agenda.

Since such a goal can only be realized within a relatively short time with the use of force and violence, Allah and Yahweh are violent gods.

But most of their counterparts in Africa are not.

True and its a downright shame. Good ideas do not need violence to spread.

A001:

Yes, it's a practice with barbaric acts. In the pre-colonization days when different cities and towns in Yoruba region were governed by kings, Oro was done as a curfew.

Even today, anyone found walking about during a curfew is punished by the authorities.

Thus, all curfews have punitive measures.

But the manner of giving the punishment is what is barbaric about Oro as a curfew practice.

And it's incorrect citing a curfew practice like Oro with punitive measures to back the assertion that traditional religions are just as violent as their foreign counterparts.

Agreed.

I never said that the traditionalists or traditional religions are as violent as the foreign ones. I said they are intolerant too. which I believe is the point of the thread. But if it's not then my apologies for barging in.


My point is; Killing or arresting people in the name of beliefs should never be tolerated. And any religion that finds that acceptable cannot be considered tolerant.

Yeah, Maybe Traditionalists don't try to subjugate people into believing their nonsense like the Abrahamic ones, but it's still a religion. And we all know most religions if not all, are cult like in nature. Cults are not known to be very tolerant to rival cults or neutrals especially when they are major cult. Big cult just wanna swallow the smaller rival cult group.

I hope you are not mixing religion and culture though?
Yoruba culture is very tolerant and promotes tolerance. But can't say the same about the religion itself. But I don't want to go deep into that. It could take all my weekend.


Also, most traditional religions are not very organized like the Abrahamic ones. Which doesn't give room for majority or minority. And I think that is what is responsible for "tolerance". Or less violent nature of traditional religion.


There are so many gods to worship and so little people.
If it was organized like the foreign ones with doctrines and holy book and junk, then forget the tolerance.

Anyways, I believe it's Time to promote science and logic over nonsensical beliefs.

Have a great weekend.
And hope Chelsea win today

NinjaXmetahuman:
I never said that the traditionalists or traditional religions are as violent as the foreign ones. I said they are intolerant too. which I believe is the point of the thread. But if it's not then my apologies for barging in.


My point is; Killing or arresting people in the name of beliefs should never be tolerated. And any religion that finds that acceptable cannot be considered tolerant.

Yeah, Maybe Traditionalists don't try to subjugate people into believing their nonsense like the Abrahamic ones, but it's still a religion. And we all know most religions if not all, are cult like in nature. Cults are not known to be very tolerant to rival cults or neutrals especially when they are major cult. Big cult just wanna swallow the smaller rival cult group.

I hope you are not mixing religion and culture though?
Yoruba culture is very tolerant and promote tolerance. But can't say the same about the religion itself. But I don't want to go deep into that. It could take all my weekend.


Also, most traditional religions are not very organized like the Abrahamic ones. Which doesn't give room for majority or minority. And I think that is what is responsible for "tolerance". Or less violent nature of traditional religion.


There are so many gods to worship and so little people.
If it was organized like the foreign ones with doctrines and holy book and junk, then forget the tolerance.

Anyways, I believe it's Time to promote science and logic over nonsensical beliefs.

Have a great weekend.
And hope Chelsea win today

Religion is an aspect of culture, just like language.

Have an interesting weekend, too.

NinjaXmetahuman:


Anyways, I believe it's Time to promote science and logic over nonsensical beliefs.

Yes, it's good to promote science and logic, but it's also beneficial to promote one's culture, while condemning its bad aspects.

All cultures around the world have both good and bad elements, just like the native cultures.

Regardless of the bad elements like worshipping a god or goddess and the barbaric human ritual practice, the indigenous cultures are beautiful.

The primary object of creating threads like this is to promote the native Yoruba culture (Ìṣẹ̀ṣé), urging people to shun its bad elements (mentioned above) and embrace freethinking.

A001:

It's their god. Allah, like Yahweh, wants to rule and dominate the whole world.

There's even a chapter toward the end of the Qur'an that Muslims recite praying with the belief that the whole world will one day become Muslims.

The native gods like Olohun, Osanobua, Chineke and co. didn't have such ambition and so didn't design their religion with expansionistic and global agenda.

Since such a goal can only be realized within a relatively short time with the use of force and violence, Allah and Yahweh are violent gods.

But most of their counterparts in Africa are not.

God doesn't want to rule and dominate, He will. But He doesn't command believers to kill unbelievers for not believing, but to love them and pray for them like Paul who became an Apostle.

LordReed:


I agree, religion should be kept out of government. However the focus here is on religious discrimination, traditionalists are not discriminatory that note.

A beggar has little or no choice. They are a very weak minority so you cannot say.

Image123:


God doesn't want to rule and dominate, He will. But He doesn't command believers to kill unbelievers for not believing, but to love them and pray for them like Paul who became an Apostle.

See the confidence. Lols. Okay.

LordReed:


Before the advent of Christianity what stories of intolerance from Sango worshippers are on record?

Stories of firing their enemies with thunder and all sorts of juju.

LordReed:


Seriously, only the Abrahamic faiths propagate the desire to dominate the whole world in the name of their god. What is so wrong in allowing people be? Why must you convert them to your beliefs or subjugate them with your religious practices?

I agree with you the traditionalists have it right in the area of tolerance, worship whatever god you care to, no disturbance.

Most traditionalists and their gods are local. They had much more little idea about the extent or largeness of the world. They are mere products of humans having a spiritual void and looking for something to worship. They didn't get big spiritual revelations.
Also their master the devil hardly seemed to care until Christian evangelism came in.
For centuries, Judaism was there without evangelism but standing as a unique peculiar race. But with Christianity came evangelism and the need to save, not dominate the world.
Devil rose in opposition and introduced the other religion to forcefully counter evangelism. Just like every fake takes inspiration from the original.

They would soon come and tell us how traditionists carry out human sacrifices for their beliefs.


But the biggest practitioners of rituals are Christians and Muslims, who eventually turn to rituals when Jesus and Allah fail to answer their prayers.

NinjaXmetahuman:
They are tolerant because they are in the miniscule minority.

Once they are in the majority, they are not different from the Islam cultist.

Oh really? Do you have evidence to prove this?

Image123:


Stories of firing their enemies with thunder and all sorts of juju.

Lol....as if abrahamists dont do juju.

I'm sure you've heard many news stories about imams or pastors caught with human body parts and skulls buried under their churches or wherever.

The biggest harm and threat to you believers come from your own fellow believers. You guys eventually resort to juju when you get desperate and your prayers fail you.
Some of you even combine traditional and abrahamic practises together.

Who are the people that are saying 'Ogun kill you in Jesus name'?

Image123:


Most traditionalists and their gods are local. They had much more little idea about the extent or largeness of the world. They are mere products of humans having a spiritual void and looking for something to worship. They didn't get big spiritual revelations.
Also their master the devil hardly seemed to care until Christian evangelism came in.
For centuries, Judaism was there without evangelism but standing as a unique peculiar race. But with Christianity came evangelism and the need to save, not dominate the world.
Devil rose in opposition and introduced the other religion to forcefully counter evangelism. Just like every fake takes inspiration from the original.

LMFAO! Aside from Christians which other religion evangelises? Aside from Christians and Muslims which other religion is actively on a globaal conquest? Surely the devil must have a global religion counter. Bwahahahahahaha!

Image123:


Stories of firing their enemies with thunder and all sorts of juju.

Because the other person was worshipping a different god?

Image123:


A beggar has little or no choice. They are a very weak minority so you cannot say.

Well, if we cannot find examples of them being religiously intolerant then a future maybe scenario doesn't count.

LordReed:


LMFAO! Aside from Christians which other religion evangelises? Aside from Christians and Muslims which other religion is actively on a globaal conquest? Surely the devil must have a global religion counter. Bwahahahahahaha!

We're saying the same thing.

A001:

Yes, it's good to promote science and logic, but it's also beneficial to promote one's culture, while condemning its bad aspects.

All cultures around the world have both good and bad elements, just like the native cultures.

Regardless of the bad elements like worshipping a god or goddess and the barbaric human ritual practice, the indigenous cultures are beautiful.

The primary object of creating threads like this is to promote the native Yoruba culture (Ìṣẹ̀ṣé), urging people to shun its bad elements (mentioned above) and embrace freethinking.

of course.

I'm always pro culture.
Iseese lagba.

1Sharon:


Lol....as if abrahamists dont do juju.

I'm sure you've heard many news stories about imams or pastors caught with human body parts and skulls buried under their churches or wherever.

The biggest harm and threat to you believers come from your own fellow believers. You guys eventually resort to juju when you get desperate and your prayers fail you.
Some of you even combine traditional and abrahamic practises together.

Who are the people that are saying 'Ogun kill you in Jesus name'?

Stories of intolerance from Sango worshippers, stay on track Shanon.

LordReed:


Well, if we cannot find examples of them being religiously intolerant then a future maybe scenario doesn't count.

Go to the village and see them sending juju to others there.

LordReed:


Because the other person was worshipping a different god?

i don't know but is intolerance only limited to religion?