This is also a question I have. It seems that many who come to Christianity continue to gossip, have premarital sex, and lie, etc. but say that they just ask for forgiveness from God and all is forgotten. Something does not seem right about this.

@Op; if the bible is correct about Jesus, nothing you do [sow] will be used [reap] to determine your destination. Just believing about Jesus in enough to cover your bad deeds and prevents you from punishment and at the same time though your good deeds are filthy rags, you will enter heaven, regardless of the 7 layers of heavens. does it sound fair to you because hitler may be in heave right now instead of hell?

@justhappy; I can accept a Loving God Who forgives because sinners turn to Him in obedience seeking forgiveness because they realize their faults. That is mending your way. What cant make sense is a forgiveness that is guaranteed not because of anything else, but the fact that the sinner accepts that an innocent man was killed for his sake. God cant tolerate such concept, because it is highest form of injustice on all; The Just God, the innocent man killed, the people who work hard to obey The Just God and even the sinner is is unjustly forgiven.

@ nodogma

the laws of God are no respecter of persons and no respecter of any religious doctrine that does fall in line with it. one of those laws is the Law of Karma or the Law of cause and effect. according to this law whatever you put into motion in life eventually comes back to you. if you do good, you will reap good and if you do bad you will reap bad. there is no exception. whether you ask for forgiveness or not does not stop repayment of past debts and you will pay to the last coin.

The key is repentance and the Grace of God.

Romans 8:12-13
Therefore brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what you sinful nature urges you to do. For if you live by its dicates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live

It is the Grace of God that gives us the divine ability to overcome sin. As humans we can't. But in Christ we can do all things. In Christ we seek forgiveness of sin and our sins are thrown into the river of forgetfulness.

That is why it is called "Amazing Grace". The grace that no other god can give but the Creator of Heaven and earth. His grace has the "Wow!" factor.
Imagine David, a murderer and adulter. Imagine Paul a prosecutor of the Church. Imagine you and me whose past generation were core idol worshippers. Thru it all God still loves us.

So if you sow repentance, you reap forgiveness

nodogma:

There is a saying that one of the most religious places on earth is a prison.  This means that after people have done much wrong, they seem to find religion.  Whether it is sincere or not, who knows.  However, the question becomes, are Christians held accountable for their wrong actions.  Everyone knows the bible verse of reaping and sowing.  There was a story in the paper about a man who stole millions from his parents among other things.  He squandered the money and soon after claimed to become a Christian.  He shows no remorse for what he did and he says God has wiped the log of these sins away.  Many think that when they become born again the slate becomes clean.  This would be an unjust thing for a just God to do and really there would be no reason to be a good person.  So, the question is, are Christians held accountable for their actions and how are they held accountable?

If a man genuinely repents of a fault , he is wiped clean , no matter  how bad . That is grace. There is nothing we can do about it.

2 Corinthians 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

justhappy:

This is also a question I have. It seems that many who come to Christianity continue to gossip, have premarital sex, and lie, etc. but say that they just ask for forgiveness from God and all is forgotten. Something does not seem right about this.

Only gossip sex and lie . . .? What about the grudges that they bear against the people who have wronged them previously. Jesus taught us to forgive others so that our father in heaven can forgive us our sins. He even went further to say that if we do not forgive others then we too will not be forgiven.

How does this fit in with the doctrine of Grace? Is Grace big enough to forgive us for not forgiving our brothers, in spite of not forgiven our brother?

Was Jesus wrong to place conditions on God's forgiveness?

nodogma:

There is a saying that one of the most religious places on earth is a prison.  This means that after people have done much wrong, they seem to find religion.  Whether it is sincere or not, who knows.  However, the question becomes, are Christians held accountable for their wrong actions.  Everyone knows the bible verse of reaping and sowing.  There was a story in the paper about a man who stole millions from his parents among other things.  He squandered the money and soon after claimed to become a Christian.  He shows no remorse for what he did and he says God has wiped the log of these sins away.  Many think that when they become born again the slate becomes clean.  This would be an unjust thing for a just God to do and really there would be no reason to be a good person.  So, the question is, are Christians held accountable for their actions and how are they held accountable?

It seems you have noticed one of the fundamental demonstrations of injustice in the Christian religion since many it seems will not reap what they sow.

Pastor AIO:

Only gossip sex and lie . . .? What about the grudges that they bear against the people who have wronged them previously. Jesus taught us to forgive others so that our father in heaven can forgive us our sins. He even went further to say that if we do not forgive others then we too will not be forgiven.

How does this fit in with the doctrine of Grace? Is Grace big enough to forgive us for not forgiving our brothers, in spite of not forgiven our brother?

Was Jesus wrong to place conditions on God's forgiveness?

1 Cor. 2:10-11
But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets. No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit.

If you apply to concept of reaping and sowing, when you sow unforgiveness, u reap the same in return. However the grace of God is big enough to look into the reasons behind the spirit of unforgiveness.

Why? because his love endures forever (Psalms 118:1)

Well, the Catholic Church teaches that God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction, and will punish sin.

When you confess, the guilt of sin is taken away, but you still have to pay for the sin; by prayer, penance, acts of charity etc. Any punishment due to sin not fully undergone in this life (though the sinner is forgiven) will be undergone in the life to come (purgatory).

This goes especially to Nodogma, Justhappy & Thehomer, it just might answer some of your concerns, And to everyone in General.

You reap what you sow simply by the words , thoughts and actions you portray on a daily basis.

Those who are carnal to this regard reap corruption while those who are spiritual ( obviously God's kind of spiritual ) reap everlasting life.

The catholic church and their heretical belief system must be a real stench in the nostrils of GOD with all its pagan rituals and twisted logic. I am not usually angry but when I see liars and false prophets deceiving the gullible, I become irate.

And as for purgatory , wow !!! As if selling indulgences was not enough.

This is precisely my point, here we have a wicked and despicable institution leading souls to the lake of fire and you have rambling heretics carrying the christian tag trying to further mislead these souls ??


All I can say is that their damnation does not slumber

who invited dis mad man into this decent conversation. Frosbel please dont ruin this thread.Every contribution has been decent until now.

I can really sympathise with u on ur pain in seeing the RCC grow from strength 2 strength despite ur puerile efforts

Aha, there you have it.

RCC and Muslims have one thing in common, growth in numbers.

And then secondly you think real Christians are jealous of your whorish church, far be this from the truth, in the actual fact we are alarmed for you and with pity we pray for you.

Sorry Jesus Christ would rather have the whole world saved but you are severely deceived if you think his main concern was in numbers,.

Right through history only a few genuine souls have followed Jesus.

Many are called but few are chosen.

I repeat the catholic church , of which I was once part, is an abomination.

The Catholic Church teaches that All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. This final purification is called purgatory.

And if you think this is unscriptural;

1Cor 3 reads:
10
According to the grace of God given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must be careful how he builds upon it,
11
for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ.
12
If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw,
13
the work of each will come to light, for the Day* will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire [itself] will test the quality of each one’s work.f
14
If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage.
15
But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved,* but only as through fire.
16
Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?g
17
If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for the temple of God, which you are, is holy.

Notice that there are 3 groups: those in verse 14 who'll 'receive a wage' because their 'work stands' (heaven); those in verse 17 that'll be 'destroyed' because they rather 'destroyed' God's temple (hell) & those in verse 15 who'll be saved 'only as through fire' because though they did work, their work was 'burnt up', (PURGATORY)

Thank you!

@Frosbel it's okay to call the Catholic Church evil names, it's been happening for more than 2000yrs so we r used to it. Jesus was called a blasphemer too, they said he was casting out demons by d power of devil and so much more,

But try to read the topic of discussion before you post. If you want to bash the Catholic Church, you're very free to open another thread, Thank you!