LordReed:


How can you know what the universe is expanding into when we can't even investigate the boundary? How are the scientists wrong if you acknowledge that the universe we are in is separate from whatever may be outside the universe?

It is a fact that the universe is expanding. This is as much a fact as saying that the Earth circumnavigates the sun. Its elementary and well established.

Please - do you give me to believe that you deny the well established fact that the universe is expanding?

And if you dont, is it possible to expand where there is no further "space" to expand into?

DeepSight:
In addition Maynman, let me just say that there is nothing like "empty" space within the universe.

Read slowly.

Maynman:

Post all your claims. Especially the einstein claim on fabric.
Space is Space, what’s “physical space”?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_space#:~:text=Outer%20space%20is%20not%20completely,%2C%20dust%2C%20and%20cosmic%20rays.

https://www.space.com/end-of-einstein-space-time

Essentially, Einstein thought space and time were intertwined in an infinite “fabric,” like an outstretched blanket. A massive object such as the Sun bends the spacetime blanket with its gravity, such that light no longer travels in a straight line as it passes by the Sun.

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/954/10-things-einstein-got-right/#:~:text=Essentially%2C%20Einstein%20thought%20space%20and,it%20passes%20by%20the%20Sun.

Maynman:


Read slowly.

I could say the same to you my friend. Its fairly difficult discussing with you.
Anyhow, nevermind.

Some of the ideas I am talking about have taken years to put across to others here. So maybe its not right to expect that we understand one another so quickly or so easily. Cheers again.

DeepSight:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_space#:~:text=Outer%20space%20is%20not%20completely,%2C%20dust%2C%20and%20cosmic%20rays.

https://www.space.com/end-of-einstein-space-time

Essentially, Einstein thought space and time were intertwined in an infinite “fabric,” like an outstretched blanket. A massive object such as the Sun bends the spacetime blanket with its gravity, such that light no longer travels in a straight line as it passes by the Sun.

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/954/10-things-einstein-got-right/#:~:text=Essentially%2C%20Einstein%20thought%20space%20and,it%20passes%20by%20the%20Sun.

What exactly is the argument?

DeepSight:


I could say the same to you my friend. Its fairly difficult discussing with you.
Anyhow, nevermind.

Some of the ideas I am talking about have taken years to put across to others here. So maybe its not right to expect that we understand one another so quickly or so easily. Cheers again.

You are grabbing to anything right now.

Maynman:


What exactly is the argument?

Well I'd really prefer that you write, because the attachments cant show up in my responses.

At all events, from your attachment, please note carefully, spacetime was indeed described as a fabric (and yes we get its not ankara). But a material thing nonetheless.

I strongly suggest we leave this discussion because I think it will be very hard for us to even understand what I am attempting to say. Which takes some describing when starting from scratch. To pursue this discussion with you will be torture. I really cant. I thank you all the same.

DeepSight:


Well I'd really prefer that you write, because the attachments cant show up in my responses.

At all events, from your attachment, please note carefully, spacetime was indeed described as a fabric (and yes we get its not ankara). But a material thing nonetheless.

I strongly suggest we leave this discussion because I think it will be very hard for us to even understand what I am attempting to say. Which takes some describing when starting from scratch. To pursue this discussion with you will be torture. I really cant. I thank you all the same.

No it was not described as a material thing, according to the link you sent.
“Einstein saw gravity as the result of curved space. He said that all objects in the universe sit in a smooth, four-dimensional fabric called space-time.“

Maynman:

You are grabbing to anything right now.

Its no worries my friend. Its not that important.

DeepSight:


Its no worries my friend. Its not that important.

Understand what Einstein said properly, your argument just keep falling flat.

Maynman:


No it was not described as a material thing, according to the link you sent.
“Einstein saw gravity as the result of curved space. He said that all objects in the universe sit in a smooth, four-dimensional fabric called space-time.“

I guess a thing can curve without being a material thing?
Let it go. Its inconsequential.

I really appreciate your input. Cheers.

DeepSight:


I guess a thing can curve without being a material thing?
Let it go. Its inconsequential.

I really appreciate your input. Cheers.

spacetime in the presence of masses is curved due to gravity. Any mass in a region of spacetime will lead to a distortion / curvature of space-time.

Read your OWN link and stop cherry picking parts, material fabric bwahahahaha.

Maynman:

spacetime in the presence of masses is curved due to gravity. Any mass in a region of spacetime will lead to a distortion / curvature of space-time.

Read your OWN link and stop cherry picking parts, material fabric bwahahahaha.

Brother, I am tired of saying lets leave it. I have said so almost ten times now. If you think I have no point, I have also said thats fine. I have said no issues, and I appreciate your input. However I will just leave one last question - its a repeated question.

Can a non material thing curve?

This is a simple question. If you dont appreciate why I ask it, thats also fine. If you think its a meaningless question, that too is fine.
I shall not be able to proceed further though, unless something truly tangible, no pun intended, curves in, no pun intended again.

DeepSight:


Brother, I am tired of saying lets leave it. I have said so almost ten times now. If you think I have no point, I have also said thats fine. I have said no issues, and I appreciate your input. However I will just leave one last question - its a repeated question.

Can a non material thing curve?

This is a simple question. If you dont appreciate why I ask it, thats also fine. If you think its a meaningless question, that too is fine.
I shall not be able to proceed further though, unless something truly tangible, no pun intended, curves in, no pun intended again.

If you are empty then stop quoting me.

Who said the non material thing is curving?
Your link said “Einstein saw GRAVITY as the result of curved space.”
spacetime in the presence of masses is curved due to gravity.

You are yet to make any reasonable point since, even what you posted you don’t understand it. You are using idea of monotheistic religion and science and both won’t mix.

DeepSight:


It is a fact that the universe is expanding. This is as much a fact as saying that the Earth circumnavigates the sun. Its elementary and well established.

Please - do you give me to believe that you deny the well established fact that the universe is expanding?

And if you dont, is it possible to expand where there is no further "space" to expand into?

Of course I accept that the universe is expanding, what I don't accept is that it is expanding into another "space". The scientific explanation is a bit confusing to me so I can't really say I accept it but what I do know is it is beyond investigation at this point so yeah you can choose to speculate on its nature but my methodological naturalist brain cannot give credence to something that has no substantive backing.

DeepSight:


The rotation of the Earth as it receives the light of the sun is the cause of the effect of night and day.

The CAUSES of day and night are the the rotation of the earth on its axis, the eccentricity of the earths orbit around the sun and the obliquiity of the earth contribute to the length of daylight, the composition of the atmosphere that gives the earth its hue and blocks out other stars, and photons from the sun.

DeepSight:

I hope you understand that an infinite regress of causes would render the inescapable result that no universe would exist. If you do not grasp this, happy to expatiate. Dwell on it a little though.

That infinite regress is your problem actually because there is no need to regress. The universe itself could be uncaused and the infinite regress problem is for people who want to arbitrarily terminate the regress at the notion of god. Their particular god. There is this particular Jew in my neck of the woods who uses the same “there can be no infinite regress” argument except he terminates the regress at the Hebrew god. Oh, what a surprise!!

DeepSight:

It could actually be the millionth or zillionth cause. This will take nothing away from the basic point that there must needs be an origin or source of all things - save those things which are self-existent.

The problem with your “self existent” things is that there is none you can point to. If “self existence” means independent function and existence then the universe fits the bill. If it means something different, give an example other than saying it’s “intangible and immutable”, which describes NOTHING.

DeepSight:

It very well could be unknowable. There are many things even within the universe which will forever remain unknowable.

There are many things within the universe that are unknowable yet some people claim to Know that it was “created” and they know the “creator” and that its “necessary”.

DeepSight:

What rests beyond our given reality is great and unfathomable.

What’s our “given reality”? Is our “given reality” the earth, the solar system, the galaxy, the cluster, the supercluster, the voids, the universe?

DeepSight:

To use a loose analogy, imagine yourself as a character in a book - let's say Mario Puzo's "The God Father." Now, much exists outside that book. People, places, planets, universes, worlds, realms, creatures - and even other books and their own characters.

This analogy does not make sense.

DeepSight:

If you stop to consider that this reality is likely a simulation, then this will resonate even deeper.

I have no reason to think this reality is likely a simulation. I mean, what is it simulating?

DeepSight:

So no, it’s not just the source or origin that exists beyond this reality. An infinity of imponderable dimensions exist beyond this reality.

Again, what reality?

DeepSight:

No it is not arbitrary or unfounded to say that things exist beyond the universe. One simple question you can ask which demonstrates this is this: Into what is the Universe expanding?

It is unfounded when you mean to create an argument for god. When astronomical discussions about what is beyond the universe occur, astronomers are careful to call the multiverse an hypothesis and try to support it with the scientific method not arbitrary speculation.
The expansion of the universe doesn’t mean that it is expanding into a container (that you call “real time”) but that spacetime itself is expanding. However, I understand what you mean because colloquially expansion requires space. But this “expansion” is different than what we are used to. Since we are just second hand users of this knowledge, let’s try to get an explanation from the people who brought it to our attention.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PiyUjVxukI

Maynman:

We have evidence that humans exist and can be birthed and also die, where is the evidence of this god or deity? And all the claims you attribute to it.
You are making assumptions over assumptions, you are just using the idea of your monotheistic religion.

How can something that’s not physical create something physical?
How can something intangible create that which is tangible?
Or something immutable create something that’s mutable?

The KNOWLEDGE created the world


For example a land might look like a wasteland today, but with the knowledge of an architect, that wasteland could become a shopping mall tomorrow


Knowledge created every thing we see or hear

Everything was created by knowledge and nothing in this world was created outside knowledge

And LORD JESUS CHRIST THE MOST HIGH IS THE FATHER OF ALL KNOWLEDGE


John 1:1 IN THE beginning [before all time] was the KNOWLEDGE (Christ), and the KNOWLEDGE was with God, and the KNOWLEDGE was God Himself. [Isa. 9:6.]



John 1:2 He was present originally with God.

John 1:3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.

John 1:4 In Him was Life, and the Life was the Light of men.

John 1:5 And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it [put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is unreceptive to it].

TradingGod:
knowledge created the world


For example a land might look like a wasteland today, but with the knowledge of an architect, that wasteland could become a shopping mall tomorrow


Knowledge created every thing we see or hear

Everything was created by knowledge and nothing in this world was created outside knowledge

And LORD JESUS CHRIST THE MOST HIGH IS THE FATHER OF ALL KNOWLEDGE


John 1:1 IN THE beginning [before all time] was the KNOWLEDGE (Christ), and the KNOWLEDGE was with God, and the KNOWLEDGE was God Himself. [Isa. 9:6.]



John 1:2 He was present originally with God.

John 1:3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.

John 1:4 In Him was Life, and the Life was the Light of men.

John 1:5 And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it [put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is unreceptive to it].

Outside of the New Testament you are quoting, iesus chrestus doesn’t exist.

Maynman:

Outside of the New Testament you are quoting, iesus chrestus doesn’t exist.

In the beginning He was known as THE TRUTH


When He came down to earth to pay for Man disobedience and ignorance He came as JESUS CHRIST


the people of the old tatstemenent knew Him as Yahweh


A lot of people have tried to know Him but they always miss their way along the way

Some know Him as the universe
Others know Him as Mother nature
Some even call Him Karma




But the Truth is all those names talk about one supreme being that is invinclibe to us but still incharge of the inner workings of our world


St. John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

TradingGod:

In the beginning He was known as THE TRUTH


When He came down to earth to pay for Man disobedience and ignorance He came as JESUS CHRIST


the people of the old tatstemenent knew Him as Yahweh


A lot of people have tried to know Him but they always miss their way along the way

Some know Him as the universe
Others know Him as Mother nature
Some even call Him Karma




But the Truth is all those names talk about one supreme being that is invinclibe to us but still incharge of the inner workings of our world

Outside of the New Testament you are quoting, iesus chrestus doesn’t exist.
Which Old Testament people know him as yahweh? Stop lying.

Maynman:

Outside of the New Testament you are quoting, doesn’t exist.
Which Old Testament people know him as yahweh? Stop lying.

JESUS IS LORD
THE LORD IS YAHWEH


the same LORD that spoke to Abraham, Moses and David is the same LORD that came down as Jesus Christ

TradingGod:



JESUS IS LORD
LORD IS YAHWEH


the same LORD that spoke to Abraham, Moses and David is the same LORD that came down as Jesus Christ

Lugard too is a Lord.
All the people you are mentioning are from middle east, are you worshipping yahweh, the israelite god?

Maynman:

Lugard too is a Lord.

but did lugard cime back from the dead ?

TradingGod:
but did lugard cime back from the dead ?

No. Show me evidence of anyone coming back to life, please don’t quote the same New Testament, that’s the only place your lord exist.

Maynman:

Lugard too is a Lord.
All the people you are mentioning are from middle east, are you worshipping yahweh, the israelite god?

He is not the isrealite God, He is the God of the universe

He chooses the isrealite because of Abraham their father that believed in Him over millions of people on earth that did not believe in Him


Him sticking with the isrealites even when the isrealites turn their back on Him is because of the Covenant He made with their Father Abraham

TradingGod:
He is not the isrealite God, He is the God of the universe

He chooses the isrealite because of Abraham their father that believed in Him over millions of people on earth that did not believe in Him


Him sticking with the isrealites even when the isrealites turn their back on Him is because of the Covenant He made with their Father Abraham

Yahweh is one of the abrahamaic gods.
What century was this abraham alive?

Maynman:


No. Show me evidence of anyone coming back to life, please don’t quote the same New Testament, that’s the only place your lord exist.

Lol......is the new tatstemenent a lie?

TradingGod:


Lol......is the new tatstemenent a lie?

The first New Testament called codex sinaicticus is the most edited and corrected document in history.
You should read about your religion and israelite gods lol

Maynman:

The first New Testament called codex sinaicticus is the most edited and forged documents in history.
You should read about your religion and israelite gods lol

Lol, I wonder how a forged document could hold so much truth that can not be disputed till today

TradingGod:


Lol, I wonder how a forged document could hold so much truth that can not be disputed till today

So much “truth” among his believers.
Even the tanakh Christians borrowed from judaism is also forged.
Like i said outside New Testament, your iesus chrestus doesn’t exist.

Maynman:

So much “truth” among his believers.
Even the tanakh Christians borrowed from judaism is also forged.
Like i said outside New Testament, your iesus chrestus doesn’t exist.

Lol

The reason Christians learn from Judiasm is because Jesus Christ keep picking up scripture from there to teach His message Here on earth


And the storyline of Judiasm point to the death and resurrection of Christ


Now Christianity is living a new life given to you by Jesus Christ when you surrendered your life to Him and pledged your Loyalty to HIM alone.

Now Christianity is not a religion but a new lifestyle or mindset or orientation
But Christianity has a religion and that religion is called LOVE

unfortunately many Christians don't practice LOVE as a religion

TradingGod:


Lol

The reason Christians learn from Judiasm is because Jesus Christ keep picking up scripture from there to teach His message Here on earth


And the storyline of Judiasm point to the death and resurrection of Christ


Now Christianity is living a new life given to you by Jesus Christ when you surrendered your life to Him and pledged your Loyalty to HIM alone.

Now Christianity is not a religion but a new lifestyle or mindset or orientation
But Christianity has a religion and that religion is called LOVE

unfortunately many Christians don't practice LOVE as a religion

Jesus Christ doesn’t exist in judaism, what story line point to what? Stop lying!
How come your lord exist only in forged books?
Christianity is gotten from Chrestianity.
Scriptures means writings, you mean jewish writings?
Yahweh is a mere israelite deity. He even has parents!