I look through the religion section of Nairaland, and all i see are attacks against islam

I am creating this thread for non-muslims and muslims; who have genuine questions about Islam. I will do my best to provide logical answers Insha Allah.

Frosbel and Aloy-emeka should please avoid this thread.

I hope this helps create a better understanding,

Salam Aleikum

You will do what? I think you should think twice before you throw yourself open for firing cos this is an i invitation to kill!

OmoPastor:

You will do what? I think you should think twice before you throw yourself open for firing cos this is an i invitation to kill!

I understand your concerns; my aim is not to get into arguments but to answer genuine questions. This thread is for sane conversations.

was my post here deleted?

Here's my question. Does the Islamic endorsement of polygamy reflect an ideal human family principle?

What accounts for the lamentable discrimination against women (gender apartheid) in predominantly Islamic Countries (particularly Saudi Arabia).

davidylan:

was my post here deleted?

Your comment is in the muslim section: This is for the non-muslim audience: thanks

tbaba1234:

I look through the religion section of Nairaland, and all i see are attacks against islam

I am creating this thread for non-muslims and muslims; who have genuine questions about Islam. I will do my best to provide logical answers Insha Allah.

Frosbel and Aloy-emeka should please avoid this thread.

I hope this helps create a better understanding,

Salam Aleikum

Excellent. I have many burning questions about Islam.

1, Do you think that Sharia law is an adequate legal system in this modern world?
2, How old was Aisha when she was married? And is this something to be emulated?
3, Do you think people should be free to criticize Mohamed and Islam?

I think these are good questions on which to start this discussion.

Deep Sight:

Here's my question. Does the Islamic endorsement of polygamy reflect an ideal human family principle?

What accounts for the lamentable discrimination against women (gender apartheid) in predominantly Islamic Countries (particularly Saudi Arabia).

Good question,  Thanks for engaging

For Q1.
", Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly [with them], then only one, " Q 4:3

The above verse permits a man to take more than one wife on the condition that he can deal justly with them.  So justice  between wives is a precondition to marry more than one, This offers a practical solution to some of the societal problems. For example, In war torn regions of Africa, there are many widows caught in tough financial conditions because they have to take care of their kids alone. The Islamic model offers them Justice in a family environment.  In the African American community in the U.S., there are so many men in prisons that the ratio of men to women is unfavourably skewed. We have many women without husbands and end up being mistresses and 'baby mamas'. It is a practical solution to problems societies face.

Also, Islamically a man provides for his family, Whatever a woman earns belongs to her and she has the freedom to do whatever she wants with it.

A muslim woman who doesn't want to be in a polygamous marriage can include the condition in her marriage contract. With that in her contract, her husband can not take more wives.


Q2

The description of the treatment of women as gender apartheid is not accurate, but i agree that some reforms  in the application of some laws have to be made in saudi arabia. A lot of the problems are cultural and not islamic. A woman not being able to drive is unislamic because we know that women during the time of the prophet, Women rode camels. Khadijah (R.A), the wife of the Prophet did ride camels.


Islam gave women the right to financial independence through inheritance and through education over 1400 years ago, The value Islam places in a woman is such that during the time of caliph mutassim, a roman soldier assaulted a muslim woman in the borders of the muslim lands. And for one woman, he wrote a letter to the leader of the roman empire to make the soldier apologize or expect an army so big that as the first soldiers are getting to rome, the last soldier is leaving the muslim capital, Just because someone troubled a muslim woman.

tbaba1234:

A lot of the problems are cultural and not islamic. A woman not being able to drive is unislamic because we know that women during the time of the prophet, Women rode camels. Khadijah (R.A), the wife of the Prophet did ride camels.

is this really a valid example? During khadija's time, the quran and islam as you know it didnt really exist. It was clearly still being revealed right?

davidylan:

is this really a valid example? During khadija's time, the quran and islam as you know it didnt really exist. It was clearly still being revealed right?

On the contrary, Islam/quran did exist; The revelation wasn't complete but we had practising muslims in mecca before they had to migrate to medina.

tbaba1234:

On the contrary, Islam/quran did exist; The revelation wasn't complete but we had practising muslims in mecca before they had to migrate to medina.

would it be fair to say khadijah had been riding camels long before she ever met mohammad? Obviously this could not have been a trend so its also fair to assume that khadijah's female ancestors were also riding camels well before mohammad was born and long before they came in contact with islam right?

So what has a female riding a camel have to do with islam's tolerance for such?

davidylan:

would it be fair to say khadijah had been riding camels long before she ever met mohammad? Obviously this could not have been a trend so its also fair to assume that khadijah's female ancestors were also riding camels well before mohammad was born and long before they came in contact with islam right?

So what has a female riding a camel have to do with islam's tolerance for such?

That is a fair statement: What i am saying is that the coming of islam in Mecca and Medina didn't stop the practice. Therefore it doesn't go against islamic principles.

thehomer:

Excellent. I have many burning questions about Islam.

1, Do you think that Sharia law is an adequate legal system in this modern world?
2, How old was Aisha when she was married? And is this something to be emulated?
3, Do you think people should be free to criticize Mohamed and Islam?

I think these are good questions on which to start this discussion.

1. Yes i do. The sharia law encompasses all aspects of law: family law, criminal law, an economic system, civil law: It is all encompassing. A lot of the negative impressions of the sharia is based on a lack of information on the legal processes of the sharia. I could explain further on the sharia if you want.


2. There is no short answer to this so i will give a long one if you don't mind,

The age of A’ishah, daughter of Abu Bakr, when she married the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is something that has only recently become controversial. The traditional account is that the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old, which naturally appears strange, if not uncomfortable, to many in a modern, western context. Hence, some recent Muslims (of varying levels of intellectuality, motivations and scholarly qualifications) have re-visited the sources. They have discovered some evidence in the classical historical texts, and reinterpreted the traditionally adduced narrations, to suggest that A’ishah may actually have been older (with various ages suggested). My aim is not to analyze the arguments for and against a young marriage age for A’ishah, but rather to contextualize the entire discussion with a bird’s-eye view that remains intact regardless of which view (if either) an individual chooses to commit to.

The first (and most) important point to note is, as indicated above, is that the controversy is a relatively recent one. The Prophet’s own contemporaries took no issue with the Prophet’s marriage to A’ishah; it was not problematic in their eyes. This includes both his disbeliever antagonists and his believing followers. Certainly, his antagonists were ever eager to discredit him, and the Qur’an itself records details of this. They accused him of being a sorcerer, a madman or a soothsayer. Yet they did not attempt to discredit him on the basis of his marrying a girl too young for him. Neither in the Qur’an nor in any historical source is there any mention of such an objection having been raised, despite the fact that these sources do mention numerous other strategies used by the Prophet’s opponents.

So, if the Prophet’s contemporaries did not object to A’ishah’s age of marriage, then we conclude with certainty that her age was within the norm. Logically, this in turn implies one of two things: either it was acceptable, in 7th century Arab culture, for older men to marry younger girls (even as young as 9), or the reason for their non-objection was that A’ishah was in fact older. Once again, my aim here is not to prove one or the other, but to put the whole issue in perspective. The age of A’ishah is not a central tenet of Muslim faith, nor should it eclipse the core message and teachings of Islam. Muslims contemplating the issue of A’ishah’s age might find it beneficial to recall that; ‘Part of the excellence of a person’s Islam is his/her leaving aside what does not pertain to him/her.’

Non-Muslims would serve themselves better by contemplating the Prophet’s teachings of monotheism and righteousness, and the Book he presented as God’s revelation, rather than dwelling on what is, at most, a socio-culturally historical oddity.

Hence, without necessarily putting the two possibilities (regarding A’ishah’s age) on equal footing, and without stifling those who wish to delve deeper into the scholarly (and sometimes non-scholarly) arguments on either side, it is sufficient for the Muslim to defer the issue to God, saying, “I believe whichever of the two is the truth before God.” There are many more useful and pressing issues for us to occupy ourselves with.

The Catholic Encyclopedia observes about the Virgin Mary (peace be upon her) that, “it is possible that Mary gave birth to her Son when she was about thirteen or fourteen years of age.”In Shakespeare’s classic play Romeo and Juliet, Juliet was only thirteen, yet her mother tells her that “ladies of esteem” younger than her are already mothers.According to the “Encyclopedia of Children and Childhood in History and Society,” both Christian Canon law and European civil law considered seven years as the age of consent, but judges in medieval England would approve marriages based on mutual consent at ages even lower than 7. As recently as the nineteenth century, ages of consent of 13 to 14 were common in Western countries. Now, we are responsible for acting in accordance with our conscience, and our own societal norms may well factor into this, but it may be a bit presumptuous to pass judgment on people of the past and future, and those of other cultures. People in the future may well look on some of our mores as bizarre.

The bottom line is: God knows best about all the details of things. And, it remains well-established that Islam’s central message is one of monotheism, decency and morality. It is to this that our energies can be more profitably devoted.

It was probably acceptable in a different socio-cultural environment, not now,


3. As long as criticism is structured and not aimed at insulting him or islam. If you present your arguments in a coherent form with throwing abuses then it is ok.

there are two threads?

anyway, my question is i'd like to have some muslim commentary about the book the horse and his boy by c s lewis.

ie assuming anyone read it.

non-theological responses plz- just personal thoughts about the subject.

tpia@:

there are two threads?

anyway, my question is i'd like to have some muslim commentary about the book the horse and his boy by c s lewis.

ie assuming anyone read it.

non-theological responses plz- just personal thoughts about the subject.

I haven't read the book sorry::

I am sure it is a great book

Why do some people in the name of religion (Islam) kill others (non-believers) while backing their actions with the Quran and may be with the support of some islamic scholars? Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion with tolerance for other beliefs.

tpia@:

. . .i'd like to have some muslim commentary about the book the horse and his boy by c s lewis.

I am not a Muslim. . .but I see the Calormenes as a thinly veiled reference to Islam by C.S. Lewis. This is not so apparent in The Horse and His Boy, but becomes clearer in The Last Battle, where we see that the Calormene god Tash bears striking similarities to the Islamic god.

It would also appear in the fate that befell Emeth that C.S. Lewis believed that one might be saved apart from the gospel (if we take his allegorical tales as commonly interpreted). It is doubtful if the Chronicles of Narnia can be considered suitable Christian reading.

aletheia:

I am not a Muslim. . .but I see the Calormenes as a thinly veiled reference to Islam by C.S. Lewis. This is not so apparent in The Horse and His Boy, but becomes clearer in The Last Battle, where we see that the Calormene god Tash bears striking similarities to the Islamic god.

It would also appear in the fate that befell Emeth that C.S. Lewis believed that one might be saved apart from the gospel (if we take his allegorical tales as commonly interpreted). It is doubtful if the Chronicles of Narnia can be considered suitable Christian reading.

So what similarities are we talking about?

What do you know about the Islamic God?

OmoPastor:

Why do some people in the name of religion (Islam) kill others (non-believers) while backing their actions with the Quran and may be with the support of some islamic scholars? Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion with tolerance for other beliefs.

Thanks for your question:

A lot of terrible things have been done in the name of all religions, this is not peculiar to islam, People used christianity to justify the spanish inquisitions, the crusades, blowing abortion clinics, the slave trade. e.t.c. But this is clearly against the values of christianity.

The vast majority of muslims do not support the murder of innocent people. The Quran states " , killing an innocent person is like killing the whole of humanity and saving a life is like saving the whole of humanity".

Islamic scholars generally have rounded condemned acts of terror by muslims. Islam respects the values of all other beliefs. The Quran states:

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error:whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy
hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." (Q 2: 256)

thank you

tbaba1234:

So what similarities are we talking about?

^

tbaba1234:

I haven't read the book sorry::

I think you should read the two books I mentioned first. You may disagree with my assessment after reading it. . .but you have no way of judging if I am right in my view that Tash bears similarities to Allah until you do so.

BTW take note of my caveats:

aletheia:

. . .It is doubtful if the Chronicles of Narnia can be considered suitable Christian reading.

tbaba1234:

1. Yes i do. The sharia law encompasses all aspects of law: family law, criminal law, an economic system, civil law: It is all encompassing. A lot of the negative impressions of the sharia is based on a lack of information on the legal processes of the sharia. I could explain further on the sharia if you want.

Sure I'll like that. How would sharia deal with issues such as free speech, separation of religion and government and teachings or scientific information that contradict the Qur'an?

tbaba1234:

2. There is no short answer to this so i will give a long one if you don't mind,

The age of A’ishah, daughter of Abu Bakr, when she married the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is something that has only recently become controversial. The traditional account is that the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old, which naturally appears strange, if not uncomfortable, to many in a modern, western context. Hence, some recent Muslims (of varying levels of intellectuality, motivations and scholarly qualifications) have re-visited the sources. They have discovered some evidence in the classical historical texts, and reinterpreted the traditionally adduced narrations, to suggest that A’ishah may actually have been older (with various ages suggested). My aim is not to analyze the arguments for and against a young marriage age for A’ishah, but rather to contextualize the entire discussion with a bird’s-eye view that remains intact regardless of which view (if either) an individual chooses to commit to.

The first (and most) important point to note is, as indicated above, is that the controversy is a relatively recent one. The Prophet’s own contemporaries took no issue with the Prophet’s marriage to A’ishah; it was not problematic in their eyes. This includes both his disbeliever antagonists and his believing followers. Certainly, his antagonists were ever eager to discredit him, and the Qur’an itself records details of this. They accused him of being a sorcerer, a madman or a soothsayer. Yet they did not attempt to discredit him on the basis of his marrying a girl too young for him. Neither in the Qur’an nor in any historical source is there any mention of such an objection having been raised, despite the fact that these sources do mention numerous other strategies used by the Prophet’s opponents.

So, if the Prophet’s contemporaries did not object to A’ishah’s age of marriage, then we conclude with certainty that her age was within the norm. Logically, this in turn implies one of two things: either it was acceptable, in 7th century Arab culture, for older men to marry younger girls (even as young as 9), or the reason for their non-objection was that A’ishah was in fact older. Once again, my aim here is not to prove one or the other, but to put the whole issue in perspective. The age of A’ishah is not a central tenet of Muslim faith, nor should it eclipse the core message and teachings of Islam. Muslims contemplating the issue of A’ishah’s age might find it beneficial to recall that; ‘Part of the excellence of a person’s Islam is his/her leaving aside what does not pertain to him/her.’

Non-Muslims would serve themselves better by contemplating the Prophet’s teachings of monotheism and righteousness, and the Book he presented as God’s revelation, rather than dwelling on what is, at most, a socio-culturally historical oddity.

Hence, without necessarily putting the two possibilities (regarding A’ishah’s age) on equal footing, and without stifling those who wish to delve deeper into the scholarly (and sometimes non-scholarly) arguments on either side, it is sufficient for the Muslim to defer the issue to God, saying, “I believe whichever of the two is the truth before God.” There are many more useful and pressing issues for us to occupy ourselves with.

The Catholic Encyclopedia observes about the Virgin Mary (peace be upon her) that, “it is possible that Mary gave birth to her Son when she was about thirteen or fourteen years of age.”In Shakespeare’s classic play Romeo and Juliet, Juliet was only thirteen, yet her mother tells her that “ladies of esteem” younger than her are already mothers.According to the “Encyclopedia of Children and Childhood in History and Society,” both Christian Canon law and European civil law considered seven years as the age of consent, but judges in medieval England would approve marriages based on mutual consent at ages even lower than 7. As recently as the nineteenth century, ages of consent of 13 to 14 were common in Western countries. Now, we are responsible for acting in accordance with our conscience, and our own societal norms may well factor into this, but it may be a bit presumptuous to pass judgment on people of the past and future, and those of other cultures. People in the future may well look on some of our mores as bizarre.

The bottom line is: God knows best about all the details of things. And, it remains well-established that Islam’s central message is one of monotheism, decency and morality. It is to this that our energies can be more profitably devoted.

It was probably acceptable in a different socio-cultural environment, not now,

I take this as saying that we really shouldn't follow Mohammed's lead on the marriage issue.

tbaba1234:

3. As long as criticism is structured and not aimed at insulting him or islam. If you present your arguments in a coherent form with throwing abuses then it is ok.

How can you tell if a certain statement or illustration is an insult? Deciding that something is an insult is a matter of taste so are you trying to regulate  people's tastes?

Thanks for your answers, Tbaba.

Do you regard sharia punishments such as amputation in cases of theft, stoning in cases of adultery, etc to be humane punishments? Do you not think that these are rather archaiaic punishments which ought to have been since phased out? Do you think it is ideal for modern societies to adhere strictly to codes of punishments set out by very ancient traditions?

I do insist on the term Gender Apartheid in Saudi Arabia. And there is a wealth of overwhelming evidence for that. Surely you cannot wave aside all the evidence for that and seek to deny the overwhelming pointers of severe discrimination against women which stem from Islamic injunctions.

How does a woman divorce her husband. Are divorce rights saved for men alone?

@ tbaba:

1. explain why there are different sects in islam with reference to the shia, sunni, wahabis etc, which of them is the most authentic sect accepted by Allah

2. why do the quran and hadith contradicts each other in terms of explaning what islam is all about

thanks

tbaba1234:

For Q1.
",  Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly [with them], then only one, " Q 4:3

The above verse permits a man to take more than one wife on the condition that he can deal justly with them.  So justice  between wives is a precondition to marry more than one,  This offers a practical solution to some of the societal problems. For example, In war torn regions of Africa, there are many widows caught in tough financial conditions because they have to take care of their kids alone. The Islamic model offers them Justice in a family environment.  In the African American community in the U.S., there are so many men in prisons that the ratio of men to women is unfavourably skewed. We have many women without husbands and end up being mistresses and 'baby mamas'. It is a practical solution to problems societies face.

Also, Islamically a man provides for his family,  Whatever a woman earns belongs to her and she has the freedom to do whatever she wants with it.

A muslim woman who doesn't want to be in a polygamous marriage can include the condition in her marriage contract. With that in her contract, her husband can not take more wives.

Sound.

Deep Sight:

Do you regard sharia punishments such as amputation in cases of theft, stoning in cases of adultery, etc to be humane punishments? Do you not think that these are rather archaiaic punishments which ought to have been since phased out? Do you think it is ideal for modern societies to adhere strictly to codes of punishments set out by very ancient traditions?

As a followup to the above or to rephrase it, do you think that precepts, a system of ethics, code of conduct or laws developed in the 7th century can work successfully in the 21st century? Should Islam be "modernised"?

aletheia:

^
I think you should read the two books I mentioned first. You may disagree with my assessment after reading it. . .but you have no way of judging if I am right in my view that Tash bears similarities to Allah until you do so.

BTW take note of my caveats:

Well, The Quran defines God as follows:
Surah 112
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.

So you see why i don't understand your conclusions.

alethia

try to use wisdom when you type and stop trying to start a religious war.

i specifically asked for comments by muslims about[b] the horse and his boy[/b]

please stand aside if you have nothing worthwhile to contribute.

its very annoying when people act oversabi like this.

learn to apply common sense plz.

as far as i'm concerned, your post has nothing to do with my question and neither is anyone asking you for a list of books vetted by you.

What does Islam say about dark-skinned peoples?
How are Christians and Jews to be treated?
Does Islam say anything against slavery, especially of dark-skinned people, and the trans-saharan and east African slave trade of the of the recent past?

thehomer:

Sure I'll like that. How would sharia deal with issues such as free speech, separation of religion and government and teachings or scientific information that contradict the Qur'an?

I take this as saying that we really shouldn't follow Mohammed's lead on the marriage issue.

How can you tell if a certain statement or illustration is an insult? Deciding that something is an insult is a matter of taste so are you trying to regulate  people's tastes?

Q1. Sure I'll like that. How would sharia deal with issues such as free speech, separation of religion and government and teachings or scientific information that contradict the Qur'an?

Free speech: Absolute freedom of speech is a myth, racial slurs for instance are generally not acceptable in today's society; The muslim's approach to speech is defined by the sayings of prophet(peace be upon him) where he said "Whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day, let him speak good or else keep silent".
There is a huge difference between free speech and hate speech.
Islam is for free speech whilst protecting the rights of people from hate speech.

In islam, I might disagree with you on a number of issues, and total freedom of opinion is a principle that was assured by Islam since it emerged, and applied by Muhammad (pbuh).

The prophet said: "The best Jihad is a speech of truth in the presence of a tyrant ruler." (Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi)

Challenging islam, the prophet or the Quran is fine as long as you don't result to insults and infringe on the rights of people. The Quran invites challenge when it states:

Surah 23
23. And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant,then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you
are truthful.

separation of religion and government

In a Islamic state, there is no such thing,  It doesn't mean the scholars  become the rulers, It mean the state is ruled by the islamic values of Truth, Justice and mercy.

scientific information that contradict the Qur'an?

So far, i know of none. Attempts at finding scientific misinformation in the Quran are often laughable because they are mostly by people who don't even understand the classical arabic or rules of the language.

Q2. Like i said, the age of aisha is irrelevant. It was a different socio-cultural environment. If you talk about the values and lessons we can take from the prophet's marriage and the love and kindness he showed his wives. Those are the values muslims try to adopt and aspire to,

Q3. How can you tell if a certain statement or illustration is an insult? Deciding that something is an insult is a matter of taste so are you trying to regulate  people's tastes?

Understanding the values of a people is what is important here. you would assume that a black man will take offence if a white man calls him using a racial slur, but some black men will shrug it off. It doesn't make it ok. It is about respecting people and their values and making a attempt to understand those values. That is why i have this thread.

What is Al Taquia in ISLAM

tpia@:

alethia

. . .

its very annoying when people act oversabi like this.

learn to apply common sense plz.

as far as i'm concerned, your post has nothing to do with my question and neither is anyone asking you for a list of books vetted by you.

^Stop being silly and hypocritical and going off on a tangent. . .do you suffer from an inferiority complex or have difficulty understanding English? Don't you understand the question you yourself asked?

tpia@:

anyway, my question is i'd like to have some muslim commentary about the book the horse and his boy by c s lewis.

^Why ask Muslims about a fictional book by a widely acclaimed Christian author unless there is something in it that you think pertains to Muslims? Maybeyou really didn't understand the character portrait of the Calormenes as described by Lewis.

tpia@:

ie assuming anyone read it.

^This as I understand it is an invitation to anyone that has read the book to comment. . .after all this is a public forum.

tpia@:

non-theological responses plz- just personal thoughts about the subject.

^You asked Muslims about their thoughts concerning C.S. Lewis; and you say "non-theological". Really? Aren't you a tad confused?

tpia@:

. . .neither is anyone asking you for a list of books vetted by you.

^Of course, this only highlights how insecure you are. I am free to express my opinion on books just as you solicited opinions of Muslims. . .if you don't like that, go borrow a mop and go mop the River Niger.

tbaba1234:

Well, The Quran defines God as follows:
Surah 112
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.

So you see why i don't understand your conclusions.

Why are you getting your knickers into a twist? Without reading the books; how do you know if Tash doesn't also have these attributes?
You said:

tbaba1234:

I haven't read the book sorry::

And I replied:

aletheia:

I think you should read the two books I mentioned first. You may disagree with my assessment after reading it. . .but you have no way of judging if I am right in my view that Tash bears similarities to Allah until you do so.