"If I were still an atheist, this one line of evidence would convince me that God exists


Virtually every scientist believes that the universe began at some point in the past
It is not eternal or always existed. Alexander Vilenkin, the head of cosmology, institute at Tufts University said, 'The Proof is now in place that the universe had a beginning'

That makes a strong argument for God because whatever begins to exist has a Cause
We now know the universe began to exist. Therefore, there must be a Cause behind the universe.
Well, then let me ask you a question
"What kind of a Cause would bring the universe into existence?"
1. It must be transcendent, because[b] it existed apart from the creation[/b]
2. It must be timeless or eternal because it existed before physical time came into being.
3. It must be immaterial or Spirit because it existed before the physical world was created
4. Must be powerful, given the immensity of the creation event
5. Must be smart given the precision of the creation event
6. Must be caring because he created such a wonderful habitat for us to exist in
7. Must be personal because he has to make the decision to create
8. And then the scientific principle of Occam's Razor tells us that there would be just one Creator

... Transcendent, Spirit, Eternal, Powerful, Smart, loving, unique... That's the description of the God of the Bible

I personally, anyway would come to the conclusion that there's a divine creator"

Aemmyjah:

"What kind of a Cause would bring the universe into existence?"
1. It must be transcendent, because it existed apart from the creation
2. It must be timeless or eternal because it existed before physical time came into being.

Yet you believe that Jesus is a created being when the same Jesus fulfilled the two answered you put forth here.

Why didn't this your own line make you agreed with yourself about Jesus Christ?

Emusan:


Yet you believe that Jesus is a created being when the same Jesus fulfilled the two answered you put forth here.

Why didn't this your own line make you agreed with yourself about Jesus Christ?

The Creator does not have a Father
Jesus has a Father
The Father produced him as the beginning of his way


This Post is directed to atheists using the material universe as a reference.
You're own is to find relevance on NL by tackling me n Max
Why not create your own thread?

Aemmyjah:

The Creator does not have a Father
Jesus has a Father
The Father produced him as the beginning of his way
This Post is directed to atheists using the material universe as a reference.
You're own is to find relevance on NL by tackling me n Max
Why not create your own thread?

Perhaps he wants to speak in behalf of atheists you can't tell o!

Aemmyjah:
The Creator does not have a Father
Jesus has a Father
The Father produced him as the beginning of his way

You have started changing mouth.

Here are your points again:

"What kind of a Cause would bring the universe into existence?"
1. It must be transcendent, because it existed apart from the creation
2. It must be timeless or eternal because it existed before physical time came into being.

Did Jesus fall into these or not?

This Post is directed to atheists using the material universe as a reference.

It makes no sense because UNIVERSE COMPRISES THE REALM OF THE SPIRIT TOO and the moment you talk about OUTSIDE CREATION then you're not talking about ONLY MATERIAL WORLD.

You're own is to find relevance on NL by tackling me n Max

Then stop creating thread on Nairaland.

Why not create your own thread?

I've done that more than hundred times.

Check my profile.

Emusan:


You have started changing mouth.

Here are your points again:


Did Jesus fall into these or not?



It makes no sense because UNIVERSE COMPRISES THE REALM OF THE SPIRIT TOO and the moment you talk about OUTSIDE CREATION then you're not talking about ONLY MATERIAL WORLD.



Then stop creating thread on Nairaland.



I've done that more than hundred times.

Check my profile.

Who's the Father of the universe?
How many are they

Aemmyjah:
Who's the Father of the universe?
How many are they

Answer my question first.

Here is your statement:

"What kind of a Cause would bring the universe into existence?"
1. It must be transcendent, because it existed apart from the creation
2. It must be timeless or eternal because it existed before physical time came into being.

Did Jesus not fall into these categories?

Aemmyjah:

Who's the Father of the universe?
How many are they

Now you're both derailing the thread.

It's better to ignore him and allow atheists to come and reason since their IQ sometimes is of considerable length than this faithless miscreants claiming Christians!

Aemmyjah:
"If I were still an atheist, this one line of evidence would convince me that God exists


Virtually every scientist believes that the universe began at some point in the past
It is not eternal or always existed. Alexander Vilenkin, the head of cosmology, institute at Tufts University said, 'The Proof is now in place that the universe had a beginning'

That makes a strong argument for God because whatever begins to exist has a Cause
We now know the universe began to exist. Therefore, there must be a Cause behind the universe.
Well, then let me ask you a question
"What kind of a Cause would bring the universe into existence?"
1. It must be transcendent, because[b] it existed apart from the creation[/b]
2. It must be timeless or eternal because it existed before physical time came into being.
3. It must be immaterial or Spirit because it existed before the physical world was created
4. Must be powerful, given the immensity of the creation event
5. Must be smart given the precision of the creation event
6. Must be caring because he created such a wonderful habitat for us to exist in
7. Must be personal because he has to make the decision to create
8. And then the scientific principle of Occam's Razor tells us that there would be just one Creator

... Transcendent, Spirit, Eternal, Powerful, Smart, loving, unique... That's the description of the God of the Bible

I personally, anyway would come to the conclusion that there's a divine creator"

1. You lie when you say every scientist agree the universe is created. Most scientists maintain agnosia of universe creation, and a few believe it may be eternal.
2.Vilenkin believes the universe originated from nothing. And its his theory, though he can't back it up. Now this negates your view that the universe was created
3. Okay, lets assume the universe was created, for the sake of this argument. Why would I assume its Yahweh and not Osiris etc? Remember these gods existed before Yahweh was coined

jaephoenix:

1. You lie when you say every scientist agree the universe is created. Most scientists maintain agnosia of universe creation, and a few believe it may be eternal.
2.Vilenkin believes the universe originated from nothing. And its his theory, though he can't back it up. Now this negates your view that the universe was created
3. Okay, lets assume the universe was created, for the sake of this argument. Why would I assume its Yahweh and not Osiris etc? Remember these gods existed before Yahweh was coined

1. Did I say created? Or has a beginning?
2. Your believe that the grand universe came from nothing or it always existed or has a Cause?
3. It is Amadioha na... Since you want assumptions

Give concrete evidence the universe does not have a Cause. If it has, who or what caused it? Nothing?

Aemmyjah:


1. Did I say created? Or has a beginning?
2. Your believe that the grand universe came from nothing or it always existed or has a Cause?
3. It is Amadioha na... Since you want assumptions

Give concrete evidence the universe does not have a Cause. If it has, who or what caused it? Nothing?

1. Stop dodging like TenQ. Your babble said the world was created
2. I'm agnostic. I dont know
3. Exactly. You have started dodging already. U said the universe was created by your god Yahweh. So gimme evidence he's the one, and you are here calling Amadioha. Who brought in Amadioha?
If you cannot give me proof its your god, then shut it, and end the thread

jaephoenix:

1. You lie when you say every scientist agree the universe is created. Most scientists maintain agnosia of universe creation, and a few believe it may be eternal.
2.Vilenkin believes the universe originated from nothing. And its his theory, though he can't back it up. Now this negates your view that the universe was created
3. Okay, lets assume the universe was created, for the sake of this argument. Why would I assume its Yahweh and not Osiris etc? Remember these gods existed before Yahweh was coined

Scientists all agree that this physical universe had a beginning at about 13.8billion years ago. Even the James Web telescope new findings did not dispute this

Aemmyjah:

Give concrete evidence the universe does not have a Cause. If it has, who or what caused it? Nothing?

jaephoenix:

Why would I assume its Yahweh and not Osiris etc? Remember these gods existed before Yahweh was coined

This is what often send them parking from my side each time they ask the above question.

He mentioned Osiris and said these gods existed before Yahweh (Jehovah) was coined.

This is where they get really mad because the Bible is Jehovah's word and He made it clear in the book that it was not until the time of Abraham that He introduced Himself for the descendants of this man as a God for their generation to generation even Abraham and his ancestors worshiped those other gods! Joshua 24:2

How come it's Jehovah we are declaring as the Creator of everything?

Well He said in the Bible book of Isaiah 43:10

“You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none" Isaiah 43:10

WITNESSES (plural) SERVANT (singular) means a WITNESS of Jehovah {Revelations 1:5} will be born {Isaiah 9:6} who will lead faithful people throughout the earth to establishing Jehovah's name {John 17:6, 26} to the most distant part of the earth {Act 1:8} not just with words of the mouth but fulfilling what Jehovah promised regarding the last days! Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

Please where are the worshipers of these old age gods if they are not DEAD according to the words of JEHOVAH the one and only true GOD?

Not to us, O Jehovah, not to us, But to your name give glory Because of your loyal love and your faithfulness. Why should the nations say: “Where is their God?” Our God is in the heavens; He does whatever he pleases. Their idols are silver and gold, The work of human hands. A mouth they have, but they cannot speak; Eyes, but they cannot see; Ears they have, but they cannot hear; A nose, but they cannot smell; Hands they have, but they cannot feel; Feet, but they cannot walk; They make no sound with their throat. The people who make them will become just like them, As will all those who trust in them. O Israel, trust in Jehovah —He is their help and their shield! Psalms 115:1-9

Where are the worshipers of these gods today?
Come and see JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES in all the nations of the earth declaring His name and majesty.
Of course an atheist will say "they are deluded"
Meaning individuals from America (North and South) Asia, Australia, Europe and Africa who are unitedly declaring Jehovah and His Kingdom to come are all deluded!
In fact individuals from the world's most racist and intolerant Arab nations are also part of this global family of peace loving worshipers and they are all fulfilling what this God said!

Well i don't think there's anything else that could be done to prove that JEHOVAH truly is the Creator just as He said in the opening words of His book! Genesis 1:1

jaephoenix:

1. Stop dodging like TenQ. Your babble said the world was created
2. I'm agnostic. I dont know
3. Exactly. You have started dodging already. U said the universe was created by your god Yahweh. So gimme evidence he's the one, and you are here calling Amadioha. Who brought in Amadioha?
If you cannot give me proof its your god, then shut it, and end the thread

1. Na u de shift post sir
2. You are an atheist, but suddenly an agnostic... Dodging a simple question
3. I did not mention any God or God's yet... You don't believe in any god or gods but you are now claiming agnostic

Why not let us agree that at least, the universe has a Cause?

Aemmyjah:

1. Na u de shift post sir
2. You are an atheist, but suddenly an agnostic... Dodging a simple question
3. I did not mention any God or God's yet... You don't believe in any god or gods but you are now claiming agnostic
Why not let us agree that at least, the universe has a Cause?

I thought you mentioned ATHEISTS but how is it that AGNOSTIC is the one answering?

Well he knew that from the look of things the atheists have lost in this area so he wants to hide under the canopy of AGNOSTICS where he could say "i'm not sure of what to believe whether God exists or not"

Sometimes i just laugh at them because Jehovah promised saying:

No weapon formed against you will have any success, And you will condemn any tongue that rises up against you in the judgment. This is the heritage of the servants of Jehovah, And their righteousness is from me,” declares Jehovah! Isaiah 54:17

They must be SILENCED in whatever form they try to challenge the faith of true worshipers of God!

MaxInDHouse:


I thought you mentioned ATHEISTS but how is it that AGNOSTIC is the one answering?

Well he knew that from the look of things the atheists have lost in this area so he wants to hide under the canopy of AGNOSTICS where he could say "i'm not sure of what to believe whether God exists or not"

Sometimes i just laugh at them because Jehovah promised saying:

No weapon formed against you will have any success, And you will condemn any tongue that rises up against you in the judgment. This is the heritage of the servants of Jehovah, And their righteousness is from me,” declares Jehovah! Isaiah 54:17

They must be SILENCED in whatever form they try to challenge the faith of true worshipers of God!

Don't mind him
He's just fooling himself
How can a doctor say that labor in women is not painful
Later he lied and said he may have been referring to female goats

Aemmyjah:

Don't mind him
He's just fooling himself
How can a doctor say that labor in women is not painful
Later he lied and said he may have been referring to female goats

He must be OBEDIENT either to Jesus' brothers or worldly politicians no sitting on the fence!

jaephoenix:
2. I'm agnostic. I dont know

Anytime you people get hook it's when you pull this prank.

You don't know yet you argue against it.

Emusan:


Anytime you people get hook it's when you pull this prank.

You don't know yet you argue against it.

We aint hooked. We are driven by evidence. The creation/origin of the universe is still being unraveled. And no scientist would tell you they have concluded in it.
But u guys decide that u know how the earth is created. But despite the fact that the creation story is illogical, filled with all kinds of lies and contradictions, u still stick to it. Same with thousands of other creation stories that came before yours, and the ones that came after.
Not only that, the bible which is your source of creation story has been found to be flawed and in fact copied from ancient scrolls like Epic of Gilgamesh, Hammurabi Scrolls etc. Also the bible is replete with all sorts of bare-faced lies.
Also your creation story has been debunked by science and history.
Do I need to go on?
My point is your story doesn't hold water and lacks evidence.
Suck it up!

TenQ:

Scientists all agree that this physical universe had a beginning at about 13.8billion years ago. Even the James Web telescope new findings did not dispute this

Another bare faced lie from Nairaland's chief resident lie-nus.
The Big Bang was estimated to have happened about 13.8 b years ago. But what happens before it is still unknown to scientists. The Big Bang does NOT describe how the universe came by. One of the common misconceptions about the Big Bang model is that it fully explains the origin of the universe. However, the Big Bang model does not describe how energy, time, and space were caused, but rather it describes the emergence of the present universe from an ultra-dense and high-temperature initial state.
So no, Big Bang isnt the very beginning

jaephoenix:

Another bare faced lie from Nairaland's chief resident lie-nus.
The Big Bang was estimated to have happened about 13.8 b years ago. But what happens before it is still unknown to scientists. The Big Bang does NOT describe how the universe came by. One of the common misconceptions about the Big Bang model is that it fully explains the origin of the universe. However, the Big Bang model does not describe how energy, time, and space were caused, but rather it describes the emergence of the present universe from an ultra-dense and high-temperature initial state.
So no, Big Bang isnt the very beginning

Read my lips: I said

Scientists all agree that this physical universe had a beginning at about 13.8billion years ago. Even the James Web telescope new findings did not dispute this

Tell me:
Was there matter in this physical universe before the big bang?

jaephoenix:

Another bare faced lie from Nairaland's chief resident lie-nus.
The Big Bang was estimated to have happened about 13.8 b years ago. But what happens before it is still unknown to scientists. The Big Bang does NOT describe how the universe came by. One of the common misconceptions about the Big Bang model is that it fully explains the origin of the universe. However, the Big Bang model does not describe how energy, time, and space were caused, but rather it describes the emergence of the present universe from an ultra-dense and high-temperature initial state.
So no, Big Bang isnt the very beginning

you seem to believe in an eternal universe. Do you know it is mathematically impossible to have an eternal universe? By the way the word energy is almost like an arbitrary word. You can't have energy without matter and time. Energy is not a thing, just like velocity or speed, they are not a thing.
2nd law of thermodynamics also goes against an eternal universe.
2nd law of thermodynamics means the universe must have a beginning, not just some state of energy that suddenly miraculously began to expand.

Aemmyjah:


1. Na u de shift post sir
2. You are an atheist, but suddenly an agnostic... Dodging a simple question
3. I did not mention any God or God's yet... You don't believe in any god or gods but you are now claiming agnostic

Why not let us agree that at least, the universe has a Cause?

1. Did your babble claim the world was created or not? This guy stop dodging
2. I say I'm agnostic to creation, meaning I don't know how the world was created. Its different from agnostic to gods(which is knowledge about gods). Agnosia is a Latin word meaning 'lack of knowledge'. It can mean be applied anywhere. There is what we call spatial agnosia(in medicine) which is a symptom that occurs when one doesn't know where he/she is. You JW guys should start imbibing higher knowledge. Your organization banning it is bringing down your IQ
3. Like TenQ again u r dodging the implications of your posts which is that your brand of god created the world

MaxInDHouse:


I thought you mentioned ATHEISTS but how is it that AGNOSTIC is the one answering?

Well he knew that from the look of things the atheists have lost in this area so he wants to hide under the canopy of AGNOSTICS where he could say "i'm not sure of what to believe whether God exists or not"

Sometimes i just laugh at them because Jehovah promised saying:

No weapon formed against you will have any success, And you will condemn any tongue that rises up against you in the judgment. This is the heritage of the servants of Jehovah, And their righteousness is from me,” declares Jehovah! Isaiah 54:17

They must be SILENCED in whatever form they try to challenge the faith of true worshipers of God!

Lol. Another JW ignoramus putting up the ignorance banner. Since u guys have sworn not to learn, let me bring the knowledge to u.
Since like TenQ, definitions is a problem for you theists

agnostic
1 of 2
noun
ag·​nos·​tic ag-ˈnä-stik əg-
Synonyms of agnostic
1
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable
broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2
: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something
political agnostics
agnostic

2 of 2
adjective
1
: of, relating to, or being an agnostic : involving or characterized by agnosticism
2
: NONCOMMITTAL, UNDOGMATIC
3
a
: not preferring a particular device or system —usually used after a noun
"Children are platform agnostic," said Alice Cahn, vice-president of development for Cartoon Network. "If you want to look foolish with a preschooler, say, 'Sorry, you can't watch that. It's not on.' It's TiVoed, it's online, it's on video on demand."
—Business Wire
b
: designed to be compatible with different devices (such as computers or smartphones) or operating systems —usually used after a noun
content that is OS agnostic
—often used in combination
The application is platform-agnostic, so it can work on your tablet or cell phone.


The bolded definition is the one I'm talking about now, which is my opinion about creation, AND NOT MY OPINION ABOUT GOD/GODS.
Learn book, no. Use your brain, no.
Na wao

jaephoenix:

1. Did your babble claim the world was created or not? This guy stop dodging
2. I say I'm agnostic to creation, meaning I don't know how the world was created. Its different from agnostic to gods(which is knowledge about gods). Agnosia is a Latin word meaning 'lack of knowledge'. It can mean be applied anywhere. There is what we call spatial agnosia(in medicine) which is a symptom that occurs when one doesn't know where he/she is. You JW guys should start imbibing higher knowledge. Your organization banning it is bringing down your IQ
3. Like TenQ again u r dodging the implications of your posts which is that your brand of god created the world

1. It is you who dodge answering questions because of its implications and not me.
2. The implication of "lacking knowledge" is that you are either
a. A Baby
b. An Animal
c. An Imbe.cile
d. An Ignorant person
e. Mentally sick

Tell me how a rational person can Lack any kind knowledge and not be in ONE of these five categories?

TenQ:


Read my lips: I said

Tell me:
Was there matter in this physical universe before the big bang?

Yup. Maybe u need to read up the Big Bang and stop relying on your pastor for scientific knowledge like your fellow retarded theists

jaephoenix:

Lol. Another JW ignoramus putting up the ignorance banner. Since u guys have sworn not to learn, let me bring the knowledge to u.
Since like TenQ, definitions is a problem for you theists

agnostic
1 of 2
noun
ag·​nos·​tic ag-ˈnä-stik əg-
Synonyms of agnostic
1
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable
broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2
: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something
political agnostics
agnostic

2 of 2
adjective
1
: of, relating to, or being an agnostic : involving or characterized by agnosticism
2
: NONCOMMITTAL, UNDOGMATIC
3
a
: not preferring a particular device or system —usually used after a noun
"Children are platform agnostic," said Alice Cahn, vice-president of development for Cartoon Network. "If you want to look foolish with a preschooler, say, 'Sorry, you can't watch that. It's not on.' It's TiVoed, it's online, it's on video on demand."
—Business Wire
b
: designed to be compatible with different devices (such as computers or smartphones) or operating systems —usually used after a noun
content that is OS agnostic
—often used in combination
The application is platform-agnostic, so it can work on your tablet or cell phone.


The bolded definition is the one I'm talking about now, which is my opinion about creation, AND NOT MY OPINION ABOUT GOD/GODS.
Learn book, no. Use your brain, no.
Na wao

Aren't you fooling yourselves?:
If it is TRUE that your brand of Atheism is one that is unwilling to commit to an opinion about Deities , how come your position EVERY TIME on Nairaland is to OPPOSE anything and anyone who writes about God?

Why is your position NOT Silence as you have not committed yourself to either believing or disbelieving?

Steep:
you seem to believe in an eternal universe. Do you know it is mathematically impossible to have an eternal universe? By the way the word energy is almost like an arbitrary word. You can't have energy without matter and time. Energy is not a thing, just like velocity or speed, they are not a thing.
2nd law of thermodynamics also goes against an eternal universe.
2nd law of thermodynamics means the universe must have a beginning, not just some state of energy that suddenly miraculously began to expand.

The second law of thermodynamics states that as energy is transferred or transformed, more and more of it is wasted.
Please how does this imply that the universe was created?
These theists are something else

jaephoenix:

Yup. Maybe u need to read up the Big Bang and stop relying on your pastor for scientific knowledge like your fellow retarded theists

I guess your knowledge of the theories of appearance of the physical world need a reviw


Tell me according to my thesis:
Was there matter in this physical universe before the big bang?


You don't know the answer!?

TenQ:

1. It is you who dodge answering questions because of its implications and not me.
2. The implication of "lacking knowledge" is that you are either
a. A Baby
b. An Animal
c. An Imbe.cile
d. An Ignorant person
e. Mentally sick

Tell me how a rational person can Lack any kind knowledge and not be in ONE of these five categories?

I'm going to repeat my lecture again on agnosticism. Cos it looks like us guys are basically cognitive impaired.


agnostic
1 of 2
noun
ag·​nos·​tic ag-ˈnä-stik əg-
Synonyms of agnostic
1
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable
broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2
: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something
political agnostics
agnostic

2 of 2
adjective
1
: of, relating to, or being an agnostic : involving or characterized by agnosticism
2
: NONCOMMITTAL, UNDOGMATIC
3
a
: not preferring a particular device or system —usually used after a noun
"Children are platform agnostic," said Alice Cahn, vice-president of development for Cartoon Network. "If you want to look foolish with a preschooler, say, 'Sorry, you can't watch that. It's not on.' It's TiVoed, it's online, it's on video on demand."
—Business Wire
b
: designed to be compatible with different devices (such as computers or smartphones) or operating systems —usually used after a noun
content that is OS agnostic
—often used in combination
The application is platform-agnostic, so it can work on your tablet or cell phone.

Now the above is from Merriam-Webster which describes basically what other dictionaries are saying.
One can simply have zero knowledge or views about certain topics. For example, I'm a physician. I may have zero knowledge about criminal law, so I'm agnostic towards it. Thus I wont tender any views or opinions on it.
Savvy?

TenQ:


Aren't you fooling yourselves?:
If it is TRUE that your brand of Atheism is one that is unwilling to commit to an opinion about Deities , how come your position EVERY TIME on Nairaland is to OPPOSE anything and anyone who writes about God?

Why is your position NOT Silence as you have not committed yourself to either believing or disbelieving?

Are you mentally retarded? Seriously asking here.
Maybe if I use caps your brain can comprehend.
I AM AN ATHEIST TO GODS BUT AN AGNOSTIC TO CREATION
My position on gods/deities is atheism is because there is no single proof to their existence. An example. If I tell you shgdbrnen exists and it created the world, would you believe me, and why won't you?
Please answer the question and don't dodge

TenQ:

I guess your knowledge of the theories of appearance of the physical world need a reviw


Tell me according to my thesis:
Was there matter in this physical universe before the big bang?


You don't know the answer!?

I just answered it. Are you sure your brain has rebooted this morning?