| The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 10:20am On Apr 25 |
The Bible is a book adored by Christians. It has been found to contain a lot of errors, lies and contradictions and thus not a reliable book. I made a thread about it here, in case ya'll wanna check it out and debate on the points there. Unfortunately for Christians, the gaffess were so many, and they could not come up with any defenses.
But in this thread, I'm gonna concentrate on the creation story, cos a Christian challenged me to(Just like another christian challenged me to open a thread about the bible errors and in the end he never gave any defenses). The errors are so much that I have to take them in parts. So this is only Part 1
What are the factual errors in the Genesis creation account?
There are several errors, since it’s a creation myth based on the knowledge, superstitions and misconceptions of the people who wrote it, just like any other creation myth. Let’s consider just some of them:
1. Duration time for the creation. This is the first considerable problem. Genesis says that, from the early stages of the earth’s formation to the dawn of man, only six days passed, which is obviously wrong. We know this whole process took about 4 billion years. Many apologists try to solve this crude mistake by declaring that the word “day” has a more vague meaning, such as six general divisions of time. We don’t know this, however, and the whole context of the story seems closer to 24 hour days (for example, we constantly read “And the evening and the morning were the first day.”).
2. The order of creation days. The order in which the creation events happened in the bible and the true geological and biological evolution of the earth are completely different. Some examples follow:
a. In Genesis 1:7 it says God divided the waters above and under the firmament. The only logical way to interpret this “firmament” or “heavens”, is the atmosphere, where water in vapour form is stored and eventually falls as rain. If this was done in a subsequent stage of the earth’s formation (day two), we would expect that the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere should increase over time. We however know that the exact opposite happened, as carbon dioxide and water vapour were partly replaced by oxygen.
b. In Genesis 1:11 it suggests that plants were the first form of life to appear, what is obviously wrong. It also suggests that plants and animals appeared in different times, what we know not to be true. Last, if compared to Genesis 1:16–18, it indicates that plants came before the sun, which would be impossible since sunlight is a fundamental ingredient to the process of photosynthesis, which is how plants produce their food.
c. In Genesis 1:16–18, as discussed before, the sun comes only after the plants appeared on the planet, which is obviously absurd. Some apologists try to save this by alleging that the sun already existed but wasn’t visible until the fourth day, since the earth’s atmosphere was thicker. First of all, the atmosphere was already transparent enough to see the sun when the first plants appeared in the planet. Moreover, the organisms from which plants evolved had already “invented” the process of photosynthesis and hence needed a substantial amount of sunlight. Finally, there are several studies who show how a plant’s growth is deeply affected by an increased period of cloudy days, and so it’s absurd to suppose that big trees and others could have appeared in a time of thick atmosphere, where the portion of light entering the planet was so weak that the sun wasn’t even visible.
d. Genesis 1:20 and 24 suggests that flying animals came before land animals, which is just wrong due to the fossil and DNA knowledge we have.
3. Magical elements. Some apologists argue that the creation myth in Genesis has a special status, since it’s much more “sober” in terms of reality than the creation myths of other religions. First of all, what matters is the truth. To construct a fable with elements closer to reality doesn’t change the fact that it is a fable. Secondly, the fact that the Genesis account seems less mesmerizing than others is just because the israelites followed monotheism (or at least monolatrism), and hence their creation story was devoid of the many struggles between gods that commonly take place at the beginning of other myths. Finally, it’s important to remember that there are many magical elements surrounding the Genesis story: the book of Revelations talks about a war in heaven between a dragon and his hosts and an angel and his hosts; Genesis itself, just a few pages afterwards, talks about talking serpents, magic fruits and a universal flood that occured just because God was in a bad mood with humanity
Nlfpmod
Seun
Emusan
LordReed
KnownUnknown
Maynnmann
TenQ
Aemmyjah
Olaadegbu
Elated177
Maxindhouse
FRANCISTOWN
Advocatejare
Lawag3
StillDtruth
Triplechoice
Workch
Edybleketara
Etc 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 11:00am On Apr 25 |
Now one defense christians have to say their own brand of god created the earth is the complexity of the universe and intelligent design. 1.Now the problem here is this. You cannot say an object is complex without comparing it to a less or more complex model. How do we know our universe is not a very rudimentary and poorly created model? What are we comparing it to? Also the human body is said to be intelligently designed but I can tell you for free that its poorly made. A. The trachea (windpipe) and esophagus (food pipe) open into the same space, the pharynx, which extends from the nose and mouth to the larynx (voice box). To keep food out of the trachea, a leaf-shaped flap called the epiglottis reflexively covers the opening to the larynx whenever you swallow. Now this causes food to regularly enter the lungs and this phenomenon called aspiration is one of the common cause of death in babies. I can't count the number of babies rushed into the ER where the mother was breastfeeding and slept off leaving the baby to choke on breast milk. B. Misrouted recurrent laryngeal nerve (RLN) plays a vital role in our ability to speak and swallow. It feeds instructions from the brain to the muscles of the voice box, or larynx, below the vocal cords. Theoretically, the trip should be a quick one. But during fetal development, the RLN gets entwined in a tiny lump of tissue in the neck, which descends to become blood vessels near the heart C.7. A backward retina. The photoreceptor cells in the retina of the eye are like microphones facing backward. This design forces light to travel the length of each cell, as well as through blood and tissue, to reach the equivalent of a receiver on the cell’s backside. The setup may encourage the retina to detach from its supporting tissue—a leading cause of blindness. It also creates a blind spot where cell fibers, akin to microphone cables, converge at the optic nerve—making the brain refill the hole. D. Exposed testicles. Problem: A man’s life-giving organs hang vulnerably outside the body. This is kinda daft cos it may be crushed by even a wrong kick by a jealous housewife  E.Childbirth hurts. And to add insult to injury, the width of a woman’s pelvis hasn’t changed for some 200,000 years, keeping our brains from growing larger. F. Problem: Our spines are a mess. They are very inflexible and cause severe back pain for most people G. The knee joint: the most complex joint in the body is situated between two huge levers—the femur and the tibia—and you’re looking for trouble. H. Childbirth. Why put a poopoo hole where the baby comes out? One of the reasons I detest taking deliveries is seeing poo pushing out the anus as soon as the baby pops out. And most times, the baby is not just covered with liquor and blood, but feces. I. The appendix. Now this is the most puzzling. This organ is just useless but somehow the good Lord decides he has to fix it inside and cause appendicitis and appendix mass, with subsequent peritonitis and septic shock, for folks. Appendectomy (surgery for appendix removal) is a big surgical burden and costs billions of dollars yearly J. The immune system. The good Lord gave us an immune system that is not only deficient but confused. They cannot fight bacteria and viruses properly without the intervention of science via vaccines. In Nigeria, measles, polio etc were major under 5 killers til vaccines showed up. Also autoimmune diseases like Hashimoto thyroiditis and other life threatening diseases came up cause the immune system cannot figure out the self cells and viruses, and our body ends up fighting ourselves just like that. Also cancers are caused by the body cells undergoing changes even in the womb. Some babies are born with cancers. You doubt me? Check out teratomas  Etc etc 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by FRANCISTOWN: 1:31pm On Apr 25 |
jaephoenix:
The Bible is a book adored by Christians. It has been found to contain a lot of errors, lies and contradictions and thus not a reliable book. I made a thread about it here, in case ya'll wanna check it out and debate on the points there. Unfortunately for Christians, the gaffess were so many, and they could not come up with any defenses.
But in this thread, I'm gonna concentrate on the creation story, cos a Christian challenged me to(Just like another christian challenged me to open a thread about the bible errors and in the end he never gave any defenses). The errors are so much that I have to take them in parts. So this is only Part 1
What are the factual errors in the Genesis creation account?
There are several errors, since it’s a creation myth based on the knowledge, superstitions and misconceptions of the people who wrote it, just like any other creation myth. Let’s consider just some of them:
1. Duration time for the creation. This is the first considerable problem. Genesis says that, from the early stages of the earth’s formation to the dawn of man, only six days passed, which is obviously wrong. We know this whole process took about 4 billion years. Many apologists try to solve this crude mistake by declaring that the word “day” has a more vague meaning, such as six general divisions of time. We don’t know this, however, and the whole context of the story seems closer to 24 hour days (for example, we constantly read “And the evening and the morning were the first day.”).
2. The order of creation days. The order in which the creation events happened in the bible and the true geological and biological evolution of the earth are completely different. Some examples follow:
a. In Genesis 1:7 it says God divided the waters above and under the firmament. The only logical way to interpret this “firmament” or “heavens”, is the atmosphere, where water in vapour form is stored and eventually falls as rain. If this was done in a subsequent stage of the earth’s formation (day two), we would expect that the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere should increase over time. We however know that the exact opposite happened, as carbon dioxide and water vapour were partly replaced by oxygen.
b. In Genesis 1:11 it suggests that plants were the first form of life to appear, what is obviously wrong. It also suggests that plants and animals appeared in different times, what we know not to be true. Last, if compared to Genesis 1:16–18, it indicates that plants came before the sun, which would be impossible since sunlight is a fundamental ingredient to the process of photosynthesis, which is how plants produce their food.
c. In Genesis 1:16–18, as discussed before, the sun comes only after the plants appeared on the planet, which is obviously absurd. Some apologists try to save this by alleging that the sun already existed but wasn’t visible until the fourth day, since the earth’s atmosphere was thicker. First of all, the atmosphere was already transparent enough to see the sun when the first plants appeared in the planet. Moreover, the organisms from which plants evolved had already “invented” the process of photosynthesis and hence needed a substantial amount of sunlight. Finally, there are several studies who show how a plant’s growth is deeply affected by an increased period of cloudy days, and so it’s absurd to suppose that big trees and others could have appeared in a time of thick atmosphere, where the portion of light entering the planet was so weak that the sun wasn’t even visible.
d. Genesis 1:20 and 24 suggests that flying animals came before land animals, which is just wrong due to the fossil and DNA knowledge we have.
3. Magical elements. Some apologists argue that the creation myth in Genesis has a special status, since it’s much more “sober” in terms of reality than the creation myths of other religions. First of all, what matters is the truth. To construct a fable with elements closer to reality doesn’t change the fact that it is a fable. Secondly, the fact that the Genesis account seems less mesmerizing than others is just because the israelites followed monotheism (or at least monolatrism), and hence their creation story was devoid of the many struggles between gods that commonly take place at the beginning of other myths. Finally, it’s important to remember that there are many magical elements surrounding the Genesis story: the book of Revelations talks about a war in heaven between a dragon and his hosts and an angel and his hosts; Genesis itself, just a few pages afterwards, talks about talking serpents, magic fruits and a universal flood that occured just because God was in a bad mood with humanity
Nlfpmod
Seun
Emusan
LordReed
KnownUnknown
Maynnmann
TenQ
Aemmyjah
Olaadegbu
Elated177
Maxindhouse
FRANCISTOWN
Advocatejare
Lawag3
StillDtruth
Triplechoice
Workch
Etc Anyone who reads the Bible with an open mind will basically lose believe while at the first chapter of the first book. Just the first chapter, see how many bs. This is going to be an interesting read. Lemme grab my milky doughnut. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 1:36pm On Apr 25 |
FRANCISTOWN:
Anyone who reads the Bible with an open mind will basically lose believe while at the first chapter of the first book.
Just the first chapter, see how many bs.
This is going to be an interesting read. Lemme grab my milky doughnut. The thing is this is not even all the errors. I have kept the really juicy ones til we thrash out these ones, so I wont clutter the place. I'm still waiting for Emusan to respond. I created this thread cos he challenged me to 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by KnownUnknown: 1:41pm On Apr 25 |
jaephoenix:
The Bible is a book adored by Christians. It has been found to contain a lot of errors, lies and contradictions and thus not a reliable book. I made a thread about it here, in case ya'll wanna check it out and debate on the points there. Unfortunately for Christians, the gaffess were so many, and they could not come up with any defenses.
But in this thread, I'm gonna concentrate on the creation story, cos a Christian challenged me to(Just like another christian challenged me to open a thread about the bible errors and in the end he never gave any defenses). The errors are so much that I have to take them in parts. So this is only Part 1
What are the factual errors in the Genesis creation account?
There are several errors, since it’s a creation myth based on the knowledge, superstitions and misconceptions of the people who wrote it, just like any other creation myth. Let’s consider just some of them:
1. Duration time for the creation. This is the first considerable problem. Genesis says that, from the early stages of the earth’s formation to the dawn of man, only six days passed, which is obviously wrong. We know this whole process took about 4 billion years. Many apologists try to solve this crude mistake by declaring that the word “day” has a more vague meaning, such as six general divisions of time. We don’t know this, however, and the whole context of the story seems closer to 24 hour days (for example, we constantly read “And the evening and the morning were the first day.”).
2. The order of creation days. The order in which the creation events happened in the bible and the true geological and biological evolution of the earth are completely different. Some examples follow:
a. In Genesis 1:7 it says God divided the waters above and under the firmament. The only logical way to interpret this “firmament” or “heavens”, is the atmosphere, where water in vapour form is stored and eventually falls as rain. If this was done in a subsequent stage of the earth’s formation (day two), we would expect that the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere should increase over time. We however know that the exact opposite happened, as carbon dioxide and water vapour were partly replaced by oxygen.
b. In Genesis 1:11 it suggests that plants were the first form of life to appear, what is obviously wrong. It also suggests that plants and animals appeared in different times, what we know not to be true. Last, if compared to Genesis 1:16–18, it indicates that plants came before the sun, which would be impossible since sunlight is a fundamental ingredient to the process of photosynthesis, which is how plants produce their food.
c. In Genesis 1:16–18, as discussed before, the sun comes only after the plants appeared on the planet, which is obviously absurd. Some apologists try to save this by alleging that the sun already existed but wasn’t visible until the fourth day, since the earth’s atmosphere was thicker. First of all, the atmosphere was already transparent enough to see the sun when the first plants appeared in the planet. Moreover, the organisms from which plants evolved had already “invented” the process of photosynthesis and hence needed a substantial amount of sunlight. Finally, there are several studies who show how a plant’s growth is deeply affected by an increased period of cloudy days, and so it’s absurd to suppose that big trees and others could have appeared in a time of thick atmosphere, where the portion of light entering the planet was so weak that the sun wasn’t even visible.
d. Genesis 1:20 and 24 suggests that flying animals came before land animals, which is just wrong due to the fossil and DNA knowledge we have.
3. Magical elements. Some apologists argue that the creation myth in Genesis has a special status, since it’s much more “sober” in terms of reality than the creation myths of other religions. First of all, what matters is the truth. To construct a fable with elements closer to reality doesn’t change the fact that it is a fable. Secondly, the fact that the Genesis account seems less mesmerizing than others is just because the israelites followed monotheism (or at least monolatrism), and hence their creation story was devoid of the many struggles between gods that commonly take place at the beginning of other myths. Finally, it’s important to remember that there are many magical elements surrounding the Genesis story: the book of Revelations talks about a war in heaven between a dragon and his hosts and an angel and his hosts; Genesis itself, just a few pages afterwards, talks about talking serpents, magic fruits and a universal flood that occured just because God was in a bad mood with humanity
Nlfpmod
Seun
Emusan
LordReed
KnownUnknown
Maynnmann
TenQ
Aemmyjah
Olaadegbu
Elated177
Maxindhouse
FRANCISTOWN
Advocatejare
Lawag3
StillDtruth
Triplechoice
Workch
Etc Im way beyond the point of pointing out how this Bible stuff is mostly bullshit.The musings of ancient greedy Hebrews are of little value to me so the nonsense in at the beginning of genesis is a non starter. What I find absolutely detestable are the stories and protagonists from Abraham to Moses to “the lord”. I find their god to be the one of most deplorable characters in all of literature. Given the actions of the “heroes” of the Bible, I’m not even surprised by the depraved nature of Judaism as reflected by these Jews and the apartheid rogue nation they call Israel. When you believe atrocious things you do atrocious things. Talking about Israel, I find it pathetic how some Nigerians who once opposed apartheid in South Africa are now cheering on apartheid and genocide in Israel just because of their ridiculous religious beliefs. They’ve been turned into perpetual slaves through the psychology of religion. Regarding the accuracy of the book, I don’t see why accuracy is an issue. Mythology is fiction even if based on true events and that is due to the fantastic elements in stories. The Genesis story bears the hallmarks of mythology and arguing about the accuracy of a myth is useless. There is no reason think the god of the Hebrews is any more responsible for the universe than the leprechaun sitting on my shoulder dictating what I write. There is no reason to venerate the musings of some incestuous psychopaths when I’m not a part of their culture. If I needed a “creation” story, I’d look in my own backyard. I find gods to be convenient conventions created by people for different purposes. When I decide to be frank, I call gods absolute nonsense and if I needed a god, I would look in the mirror. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by KnownUnknown: 1:58pm On Apr 25 |
jaephoenix:
Now one defense christians have to say their own brand of god created the earth is the complexity of the universe and intelligent design.
1.Now the problem here is this. You cannot say an object is complex without comparing it to a less or more complex model. How do we know our universe is not a very rudimentary and poorly created model? What are we comparing it to?
Also the human body is said to be intelligently designed but I can tell you for free that its poorly made.
A. The trachea (windpipe) and esophagus (food pipe) open into the same space, the pharynx, which extends from the nose and mouth to the larynx (voice box). To keep food out of the trachea, a leaf-shaped flap called the epiglottis reflexively covers the opening to the larynx whenever you swallow. Now this causes food to regularly enter the lungs and this phenomenon called aspiration is one of the common cause of death in babies. I can't count the number of babies rushed into the ER where the mother was breastfeeding and slept off leaving the baby to choke on breast milk.
B. Misrouted recurrent laryngeal nerve (RLN) plays a vital role in our ability to speak and swallow. It feeds instructions from the brain to the muscles of the voice box, or larynx, below the vocal cords. Theoretically, the trip should be a quick one. But during fetal development, the RLN gets entwined in a tiny lump of tissue in the neck, which descends to become blood vessels near the heart
C.7. A backward retina. The photoreceptor cells in the retina of the eye are like microphones facing backward. This design forces light to travel the length of each cell, as well as through blood and tissue, to reach the equivalent of a receiver on the cell’s backside. The setup may encourage the retina to detach from its supporting tissue—a leading cause of blindness. It also creates a blind spot where cell fibers, akin to microphone cables, converge at the optic nerve—making the brain refill the hole.
D. Exposed testicles. Problem: A man’s life-giving organs hang vulnerably outside the body. This is kinda daft cos it may be crushed by even a wrong kick by a jealous housewife
E.Childbirth hurts. And to add insult to injury, the width of a woman’s pelvis hasn’t changed for some 200,000 years, keeping our brains from growing larger.
F. Problem: Our spines are a mess. They are very inflexible and cause severe back pain for most people
G. The knee joint: the most complex joint in the body is situated between two huge levers—the femur and the tibia—and you’re looking for trouble.
H. Childbirth. Why put a poopoo hole where the baby comes out? One of the reasons I detest taking deliveries is seeing poo pushing out the anus as soon as the baby pops out. And most times, the baby is not just covered with liquor and blood, but feces.
I. The appendix. Now this is the most puzzling. This organ is just useless but somehow the good Lord decides he has to fix it inside and cause appendicitis and appendix mass, with subsequent peritonitis and septic shock, for folks. Appendectomy (surgery for appendix removal) is a big surgical burden and costs billions of dollars yearly
J. The immune system. The good Lord gave us an immune system that is not only deficient but confused. They cannot fight bacteria and viruses properly without the intervention of science via vaccines. In Nigeria, measles, polio etc were major under 5 killers til vaccines showed up. Also autoimmune diseases like Hashimoto thyroiditis and other life threatening diseases came up cause the immune system cannot figure out the self cells and viruses, and our body ends up fighting ourselves just like that. Also cancers are caused by the body cells undergoing changes even in the womb. Some babies are born with cancers. You doubt me? Check out teratomas
Etc etc I understand the “poorly made” argument but I think it is flawed. Just like you rightly stated that for one to call something complex, there has to be something else to compare it to. So for us to call the human body poorly formed, we have to have a well formed body to compare it to. The universe is simultaneously ugly and beautiful, just like the “poorly made” human body. Simultaneously simple and complex just like human affairs. It is what it is, which is what the ancient Hebrews got right in their non psychotic musings: I am that I am. The universe is what it is and you are a beautiful part of it. At least I know I am. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 2:13pm On Apr 25 |
KnownUnknown:
Im way beyond the point of pointing out how this Bible stuff is mostly bullshit.The musings of ancient greedy Hebrews are of little value to me so the nonsense in at the beginning of genesis is a non starter.
What I find absolutely detestable are the stories and protagonists from Abraham to Moses to “the lord”. I find their god to be the one of most deplorable characters in all of literature. Given the actions of the “heroes” of the Bible, I’m not even surprised by the depraved nature of Judaism as reflected by these Jews and the apartheid rogue nation they call Israel. When you believe atrocious things you do atrocious things. Talking about Israel, I find it pathetic how some Nigerians who once opposed apartheid in South Africa are now cheering on apartheid and genocide in Israel just because of their ridiculous religious beliefs. They’ve been turned into perpetual slaves through the psychology of religion.
Regarding the accuracy of the book, I don’t see why accuracy is an issue. Mythology is
fiction even if based on true events and that is due to the fantastic elements in stories. The Genesis story bears the hallmarks of mythology and arguing about the accuracy of a myth is useless. There is no reason think the god of the Hebrews is any more responsible for the universe than the leprechaun sitting on my shoulder dictating what I write. There is no reason to venerate the musings of some incestuous psychopaths when I’m not a part of their culture. If I needed a “creation” story, I’d look in my own backyard.
I find gods to be convenient conventions created by people for different purposes. When I decide to be frank, I call gods absolute nonsense and if I needed a god, I would look in the mirror.
Well, some people believe it and can kill for it. Reason why I'm bringing it up 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 2:15pm On Apr 25 |
KnownUnknown:
I understand the “poorly made” argument but I think it is flawed. Just like you rightly stated that for one to call something complex, there has to be something else to compare it to. So for us to call the human body poorly formed, we have to have a well formed body to compare it to. The universe is simultaneously ugly and beautiful, just like the “poorly made” human body. Simultaneously simple and complex just like human affairs. It is what it is, which is what the ancient Hebrews got right in their non psychotic musings: I am that I am. The universe is what it is and you are a beautiful part of it. At least I know I am. I get your point about the human body. There is no how we can check its perfection. I'm just pointing out the flaws 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by LordReed(m): 2:48pm On Apr 25 |
KnownUnknown:
Im way beyond the point of pointing out how this Bible stuff is mostly bullshit.The musings of ancient greedy Hebrews are of little value to me so the nonsense in at the beginning of genesis is a non starter.
What I find absolutely detestable are the stories and protagonists from Abraham to Moses to “the lord”. I find their god to be the one of most deplorable characters in all of literature. Given the actions of the “heroes” of the Bible, I’m not even surprised by the depraved nature of Judaism as reflected by these Jews and the apartheid rogue nation they call Israel. When you believe atrocious things you do atrocious things. Talking about Israel, I find it pathetic how some Nigerians who once opposed apartheid in South Africa are now cheering on apartheid and genocide in Israel just because of their ridiculous religious beliefs. They’ve been turned into perpetual slaves through the psychology of religion.
Regarding the accuracy of the book, I don’t see why accuracy is an issue. Mythology is
fiction even if based on true events and that is due to the fantastic elements in stories. The Genesis story bears the hallmarks of mythology and arguing about the accuracy of a myth is useless. There is no reason think the god of the Hebrews is any more responsible for the universe than the leprechaun sitting on my shoulder dictating what I write. There is no reason to venerate the musings of some incestuous psychopaths when I’m not a part of their culture. If I needed a “creation” story, I’d look in my own backyard.
I find gods to be convenient conventions created by people for different purposes. When I decide to be frank, I call gods absolute nonsense and if I needed a god, I would look in the mirror.
I get such a kick out of reading Greek mythological stories, the stories have way more gravitas and wit than the Hebrew stories. Some of the Hebrew stories feel like a bloodthirsty person looking for an excuse to recount tales of gruesome death or just plain ol mischief. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by LordReed(m): 2:52pm On Apr 25 |
KnownUnknown:
I understand the “poorly made” argument but I think it is flawed. Just like you rightly stated that for one to call something complex, there has to be something else to compare it to. So for us to call the human body poorly formed, we have to have a well formed body to compare it to. The universe is simultaneously ugly and beautiful, just like the “poorly made” human body. Simultaneously simple and complex just like human affairs. It is what it is, which is what the ancient Hebrews got right in their non psychotic musings: I am that I am. The universe is what it is and you are a beautiful part of it. At least I know I am. Unfortunately the Christians do not take that particular lesson at all; they seem to internalise some kinda hatred for the universe, they want it remade so badly they think their deaths will usher them to it. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by Lawag3: 3:26pm On Apr 25 |
jaephoenix:
The Bible is a book adored by Christians. It has been found to contain a lot of errors, lies and contradictions and thus not a reliable book. I made a thread about it here, in case ya'll wanna check it out and debate on the points there. Unfortunately for Christians, the gaffess were so many, and they could not come up with any defenses.
But in this thread, I'm gonna concentrate on the creation story, cos a Christian challenged me to(Just like another christian challenged me to open a thread about the bible errors and in the end he never gave any defenses). The errors are so much that I have to take them in parts. So this is only Part 1
What are the factual errors in the Genesis creation account?
There are several errors, since it’s a creation myth based on the knowledge, superstitions and misconceptions of the people who wrote it, just like any other creation myth. Let’s consider just some of them:
1. Duration time for the creation. This is the first considerable problem. Genesis says that, from the early stages of the earth’s formation to the dawn of man, only six days passed, which is obviously wrong. We know this whole process took about 4 billion years. Many apologists try to solve this crude mistake by declaring that the word “day” has a more vague meaning, such as six general divisions of time. We don’t know this, however, and the whole context of the story seems closer to 24 hour days (for example, we constantly read “And the evening and the morning were the first day.”).
2. The order of creation days. The order in which the creation events happened in the bible and the true geological and biological evolution of the earth are completely different. Some examples follow:
a. In Genesis 1:7 it says God divided the waters above and under the firmament. The only logical way to interpret this “firmament” or “heavens”, is the atmosphere, where water in vapour form is stored and eventually falls as rain. If this was done in a subsequent stage of the earth’s formation (day two), we would expect that the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere should increase over time. We however know that the exact opposite happened, as carbon dioxide and water vapour were partly replaced by oxygen.
b. In Genesis 1:11 it suggests that plants were the first form of life to appear, what is obviously wrong. It also suggests that plants and animals appeared in different times, what we know not to be true. Last, if compared to Genesis 1:16–18, it indicates that plants came before the sun, which would be impossible since sunlight is a fundamental ingredient to the process of photosynthesis, which is how plants produce their food.
c. In Genesis 1:16–18, as discussed before, the sun comes only after the plants appeared on the planet, which is obviously absurd. Some apologists try to save this by alleging that the sun already existed but wasn’t visible until the fourth day, since the earth’s atmosphere was thicker. First of all, the atmosphere was already transparent enough to see the sun when the first plants appeared in the planet. Moreover, the organisms from which plants evolved had already “invented” the process of photosynthesis and hence needed a substantial amount of sunlight. Finally, there are several studies who show how a plant’s growth is deeply affected by an increased period of cloudy days, and so it’s absurd to suppose that big trees and others could have appeared in a time of thick atmosphere, where the portion of light entering the planet was so weak that the sun wasn’t even visible.
d. Genesis 1:20 and 24 suggests that flying animals came before land animals, which is just wrong due to the fossil and DNA knowledge we have.
3. Magical elements. Some apologists argue that the creation myth in Genesis has a special status, since it’s much more “sober” in terms of reality than the creation myths of other religions. First of all, what matters is the truth. To construct a fable with elements closer to reality doesn’t change the fact that it is a fable. Secondly, the fact that the Genesis account seems less mesmerizing than others is just because the israelites followed monotheism (or at least monolatrism), and hence their creation story was devoid of the many struggles between gods that commonly take place at the beginning of other myths. Finally, it’s important to remember that there are many magical elements surrounding the Genesis story: the book of Revelations talks about a war in heaven between a dragon and his hosts and an angel and his hosts; Genesis itself, just a few pages afterwards, talks about talking serpents, magic fruits and a universal flood that occured just because God was in a bad mood with humanity
Nlfpmod
Seun
Emusan
LordReed
KnownUnknown
Maynnmann
TenQ
Aemmyjah
Olaadegbu
Elated177
Maxindhouse
FRANCISTOWN
Advocatejare
Lawag3
StillDtruth
Triplechoice
Workch
Edybleketara
Etc Nice write up, but it proves nothing. If God created everything in six days he did so because he is God and can do anything. Many things he do are not understandable by Man. You don't understand doesn't mean it isn't exist. 1 Like |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by StillDtruth: 3:32pm On Apr 25 |
FRANCISTOWN:
Anyone who reads the Bible with an open mind will basically lose believe while at the first chapter of the first book.
Just the first chapter, see how many bs.
This is going to be an interesting read. Lemme grab my milky doughnut. You atheists have begun with your lies again. Was anyone born holding a bible? No Everyone had an open mind when they first read the bible. And anyone who reads the bible with an open mind finds that the bible provokes him to ask relevant and important questions and reveals the kind of persons they are/who they want to be anong other things they wish/do not wish to know. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by StillDtruth: 3:55pm On Apr 25 |
jaephoenix:
The Bible is a book adored by Christians. It has been found to contain a lot of errors, lies and contradictions and thus not ac Typical Lies spat by the most unjust and unfair people in the world known and described as atheist. The only people who see the bible this way are atheists themselves. No fair minded and just person has ever seen this lies atheists sell because they can see the Truth and humaness of the bible, giving out its information as the writer believes it to be true. It does not care whether you believe it, ( unlike atheists whose sole mission is to force people to believe them, even resorting to lies and twistings, blackmail and toasting and bullying and arm twistings and when they refuse or they challenge them, then they begin to rain insalts and abuse the person) but it knows, that like a good textbook, every reader has the right and inteligence to freely arrive at their own conclusion, whether such conclusion is correct or not. But the bible respects the rights and freewill of the reader whether the will is good or evil, but it respects the rights of a human being. Unlike atheists and as everyone can see, you have begun with your lies, since balance and just is and fairness and equality and Law, is an abomination to atheists.
And as we can all see the attack and bullying has begun |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by StillDtruth: 4:05pm On Apr 25 |
A thread for atheists to peddle their lies and especially the very very wicked lie called half-truths!
"A half-truth is even more dangerous than a lie. A lie, you can detect at some stage, but half a truth is sure to mislead you for long.
Anurag Shourie,
"A lie which is half a truth is ever the blackest of lies;"
Lord Tennyson, Alfred |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by Aemmyjah(m): 4:10pm On Apr 25 |
jaephoenix:
The Bible is a book adored by Christians. It has been found to contain a lot of errors, lies and contradictions and thus not a reliable book. I made a thread about it here, in case ya'll wanna check it out and debate on the points there. Unfortunately for Christians, the gaffess were so many, and they could not come up with any defenses.
But in this thread, I'm gonna concentrate on the creation story, cos a Christian challenged me to(Just like another christian challenged me to open a thread about the bible errors and in the end he never gave any defenses). The errors are so much that I have to take them in parts. So this is only Part 1
What are the factual errors in the Genesis creation account?
There are several errors, since it’s a creation myth based on the knowledge, superstitions and misconceptions of the people who wrote it, just like any other creation myth. Let’s consider just some of them:
1. Duration time for the creation. This is the first considerable problem. Genesis says that, from the early stages of the earth’s formation to the dawn of man, only six days passed, which is obviously wrong. We know this whole process took about 4 billion years. Many apologists try to solve this crude mistake by declaring that the word “day” has a more vague meaning, such as six general divisions of time. We don’t know this, however, and the whole context of the story seems closer to 24 hour days (for example, we constantly read “And the evening and the morning were the first day.”).
2. The order of creation days. The order in which the creation events happened in the bible and the true geological and biological evolution of the earth are completely different. Some examples follow:
a. In Genesis 1:7 it says God divided the waters above and under the firmament. The only logical way to interpret this “firmament” or “heavens”, is the atmosphere, where water in vapour form is stored and eventually falls as rain. If this was done in a subsequent stage of the earth’s formation (day two), we would expect that the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere should increase over time. We however know that the exact opposite happened, as carbon dioxide and water vapour were partly replaced by oxygen.
b. In Genesis 1:11 it suggests that plants were the first form of life to appear, what is obviously wrong. It also suggests that plants and animals appeared in different times, what we know not to be true. Last, if compared to Genesis 1:16–18, it indicates that plants came before the sun, which would be impossible since sunlight is a fundamental ingredient to the process of photosynthesis, which is how plants produce their food.
c. In Genesis 1:16–18, as discussed before, the sun comes only after the plants appeared on the planet, which is obviously absurd. Some apologists try to save this by alleging that the sun already existed but wasn’t visible until the fourth day, since the earth’s atmosphere was thicker. First of all, the atmosphere was already transparent enough to see the sun when the first plants appeared in the planet. Moreover, the organisms from which plants evolved had already “invented” the process of photosynthesis and hence needed a substantial amount of sunlight. Finally, there are several studies who show how a plant’s growth is deeply affected by an increased period of cloudy days, and so it’s absurd to suppose that big trees and others could have appeared in a time of thick atmosphere, where the portion of light entering the planet was so weak that the sun wasn’t even visible.
d. Genesis 1:20 and 24 suggests that flying animals came before land animals, which is just wrong due to the fossil and DNA knowledge we have.
3. Magical elements. Some apologists argue that the creation myth in Genesis has a special status, since it’s much more “sober” in terms of reality than the creation myths of other religions. First of all, what matters is the truth. To construct a fable with elements closer to reality doesn’t change the fact that it is a fable. Secondly, the fact that the Genesis account seems less mesmerizing than others is just because the israelites followed monotheism (or at least monolatrism), and hence their creation story was devoid of the many struggles between gods that commonly take place at the beginning of other myths. Finally, it’s important to remember that there are many magical elements surrounding the Genesis story: the book of Revelations talks about a war in heaven between a dragon and his hosts and an angel and his hosts; Genesis itself, just a few pages afterwards, talks about talking serpents, magic fruits and a universal flood that occured just because God was in a bad mood with humanity
Nlfpmod
Seun
Emusan
LordReed
KnownUnknown
Maynnmann
TenQ
Aemmyjah
Olaadegbu
Elated177
Maxindhouse
FRANCISTOWN
Advocatejare
Lawag3
StillDtruth
Triplechoice
Workch
Edybleketara
Etc All 3 arguments shows your level of ignorance If I ask you my question, you will say you don't know Creating your arguments but no one must object to it especially when you've seen that the word day id not referring yo 24 hours period cos the Bible tells us that the heavens and the earth were in existence in the beginning And your saying the human body is poorly developed shows ur level of stupidity... It's better to even give a lunatic phone to start his argument on NL and you claim to be a medical doctor. Is that also what your gynae professor taught you in med school? If you sincerely want me to answer your question, I'll do that if you answer this question with a yes or No Your brain, Jaephoenix is poorly made. Yes or No? |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by StillDtruth: 4:10pm On Apr 25 |
Lawag3:
Nice write up, but it proves nothing. If God created everything in six days he did so because he is God and can do anything. Many things he do are not understandable by Man.
You don't understand doesn't mean it isn't exist. It already exists and we are only playing catch up in learning about it but atheists reasoning with blindspots is the way of atheism. 1 Like |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by StillDtruth: 4:13pm On Apr 25 |
Aemmyjah:
All 3 arguments shows your level of ignorance
If I ask you my question, you will say you don't know
Creating your arguments but no one must object to it especially when you've seen that the word day id not referring yo 24 hours period cos the Bible tells us that the heavens and the earth were in existence in the beginning
And your saying the human body is poorly developed shows ur level of stupidity... It's better to even give a lunatic phone to start his argument on NL and you claim to be a medical doctor. Is that also what your gynae professor taught you in med school?
If you sincerely want me to answer your question, I'll do that if you answer this question with a yes or No
Your brain, Jaephoenix is poorly made. Yes or No? He is poorly made yet he did not return himself the product back to The Owner! Then the points of argument are many. If he truly wanted it settled, why did he not start with one let everyone focus on that one and see whether, they would not start abusing and insalting us as we point out their several follies. |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by Aemmyjah(m): 4:18pm On Apr 25 |
StillDtruth:
He is poorly made yet he did not return himself the product back to The Owner!
Then the points of arguments
The image below will be a perfect made human for Jaephoenix... He's free to modify himself to look like such When his wife gave birth to his child or when his mother gave birth to him (Jaephoenix) Did his parents say, oh 😢😭 What a poorly made son of mine! Jaephoenix, die your parents at your own birth say you're poorly made son? Tell NL forum, let them hear 
|
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by Aemmyjah(m): 4:19pm On Apr 25 |
StillDtruth:
He is poorly made yet he did not return himself the product back to The Owner!
Then the points of argument are many. If he truly wanted it settled, why did he not start with one let everyone focus on that one and see whether, they would not start abusing and insalting us as we point out their several follies.
Let him tag one atheist and ask if his parents acknowledge or himself acknowledge his child is poorly made |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by StillDtruth: 4:23pm On Apr 25 |
Aemmyjah:
Let him tag one atheist and ask if his parents acknowledge or himself acknowledge his child is poorly made Oh oooh! He would.start to blow off point grammar plus he did not say that when he was going to.school or toasting somebody's wife. |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by Aemmyjah(m): 4:44pm On Apr 25 |
StillDtruth:
Oh oooh!
He would.start to blow off point grammar plus he did not say that when he was going to.school or toasting somebody's wife. Knownunknown Do you agree with Jaephoenix that you're poorly made 😂 |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by Aemmyjah(m): 4:49pm On Apr 25 |
Francistown, are you also poorly made like Jaephoenix? |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 5:19pm On Apr 25 |
Lawag3:
Nice write up, but it proves nothing. If God created everything in six days he did so because he is God and can do anything. Many things he do are not understandable by Man.
You don't understand doesn't mean it isn't exist. Yeah, so I was waiting for this reply. Seems to be a regular go-to for Christians when they are caught. So Yahweh basically magicked the trees before the sun, and sustained them without photosynthesis, right? So he made the flying animals come before land animals right? So that means the fossil records were falsified, right? Lol My problem with christians is the abject lack of scientific knowledge. Its so poor that its appalling |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 5:20pm On Apr 25 |
StillDtruth:
You atheists have begun with your lies again.
Was anyone born holding a bible? No
Everyone had an open mind when they first read the bible. And anyone who reads the bible with an open mind finds that the bible
provokes him to ask relevant and important questions and reveals the kind of persons they are/who they want to be anong other things they wish/do not wish to know. Thats the point. Nobody was born with religion til s/he meets a liar, whether Christian/Muslim/Buddhist etc |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 5:22pm On Apr 25 |
StillDtruth:
Typical Lies spat by the most unjust and unfair people in the world known and described as atheist.
The only people who see the bible this way are atheists themselves.
No fair minded and just person has ever seen this lies atheists sell because they can see the Truth and humaness of the bible, giving out its information as the writer believes it to be true.
It does not care whether you believe it, (unlike atheists whose sole mission is to force people to believe them, even resorting to lies and twistings, blackmail and toasting and bullying and arm twistings and when they refuse or they challenge them, then they begin to rain insalts and abuse the person) but it knows, that like a good textbook, every reader has the right and inteligence to freely arrive at their own conclusion, whether such conclusion is correct or not.
But the bible respects the rights and freewill of the reader whether the will is good or evil, but it respects the rights of a human being.
Unlike atheists and as everyone can see, you have begun with your lies, since balance and just is and fairness and equality and Law, is an abomination to atheists.
And as we can all see the attack and bullying has begun
Once again, as I expected, u skipped the topic at hand and launched into your regular anti-atheist diatribes. I don't expect anything cerebral or original from you <yawn> |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 5:24pm On Apr 25 |
StillDtruth:
A thread for atheists to peddle their lies and especially the very very wicked lie called half-truths!
"A half-truth is even more dangerous than a lie. A lie, you can detect at some stage, but half a truth is sure to mislead you for long.
Anurag Shourie,
"A lie which is half a truth is ever the blackest of lies;"
Lord Tennyson, Alfred 
|
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by Lawag3: 5:45pm On Apr 25 |
jaephoenix:
Yeah, so I was waiting for this reply. Seems to be a regular go-to for Christians when they are caught.
So Yahweh basically magicked the trees before the sun, and sustained them without photosynthesis, right? So he made the flying animals come before land animals right? So that means the fossil records were falsified, right? Lol
My problem with christians is the abject lack of scientific knowledge. Its so poor that its appalling Some Christians don't lack scientific knowledge. It just that we know the miracles of God suspends and overules scientific knowledge and logic. P.S Christians contributed more to modern science than most groups |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 5:46pm On Apr 25 |
Aemmyjah:
All 3 arguments shows your level of ignorance
If I ask you my question, you will say you don't know
Creating your arguments but no one must object to it especially when you've seen that the word day id not referring yo 24 hours period cos the Bible tells us that the heavens and the earth were in existence in the beginning
And your saying the human body is poorly developed shows ur level of stupidity... It's better to even give a lunatic phone to start his argument on NL and you claim to be a medical doctor. Is that also what your gynae professor taught you in med school?
If you sincerely want me to answer your question, I'll do that if you answer this question with a yes or No
Your brain, Jaephoenix is poorly made. Yes or No? 1. This is what your babble said Genesis 1:1 of the Bible states, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". So that your point that the heaven and earth were already in existence goes to the trash can. 2. I don't think u even read through the post, which is my problem with you theists. The babble clearly said day and night, and even used terms like evenings. So how can you say its not a 24 hr day when evenings were mentioned. I even said some of your apologists said this same bullshit but clearly the babble means 24 hr day when it mentions evenings. So rest 3. Yup. Human brain was poorly made. Firstly, its poorly protected. There's a thin side in the temple called pterion. Its easily traumatized by any blunt object leading to death. Secondly, the retinal connection to the visual cortex is all fvcked up and thirdly we can't access 80% of our brain. There are other brain flaws, which I can't remember but would drop here as soon I can remember |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 5:51pm On Apr 25 |
StillDtruth:
He is poorly made yet he did not return himself the product back to The Owner!
Then the points of argument are many. If he truly wanted it settled, why did he not start with one let everyone focus on that one and see whether, they would not start abusing and insalting us as we point out their several follies.
If ur schizophrenia can allow u read properly, I clearly said that I am doing this in parts. There are other contradictions and lies in the creation story but I chose just this few to start with. So if we thrash this, I bring up the harder ones. When u can't thrash these easy ones, is there any use bringing up the harder ones? |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 5:53pm On Apr 25 |
Aemmyjah:
The image below will be a perfect made human for Jaephoenix... He's free to modify himself to look like such
When his wife gave birth to his child or when his mother gave birth to him (Jaephoenix)
Did his parents say, oh 😢😭 What a poorly made son of mine!
Jaephoenix, die your parents at your own birth say you're poorly made son?
Tell NL forum, let them hear As usual, ignoring the message and attacking the messenger. None of u have made any meaningful attempt to tackle the post. I'm used to theist nuances |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 5:54pm On Apr 25 |
Aemmyjah:
Let him tag one atheist and ask if his parents acknowledge or himself acknowledge his child is poorly made Are u even aware some babies are born with heart defects or even without heart. Some without heads, arms etc. Some born with cancers. What is wonderful about them? Sometimes I marvel at the stupidity exhibited by theists. U guys are wonderfully made indeed |
| Re: The Christian Creation Story. Why Its An Old Wives Tale by jaephoenix(m): 5:59pm On Apr 25 |
Lawag3:
Some Christians don't lack scientific knowledge. It just that we know the miracles of God suspends and overules scientific knowledge and logic.
P.S Christians contributed more to modern science than most groups Again u left the points and veered off. Please concentrate on the points I raised and stop saying trash. Which miracles overruled science? Did the Christian scientists tell you they got the knowledge by asking god and praying, or did they get it by carrying researches which takes years and years of study? Sies! |
