In several religious bodies heaven poses as the ultimate reward and final destination for faithful servants thus is the believer’s main objective.

A generous description of heaven has been presented in several religious texts with noticeable differences depending on the religion. i.e. the Heavens illustrated in the Quran and the Bible understandably differ. But it also makes one wonder as to who the target audience of these otherworldly abodes are.

An incentive for any contest is the prize; offering greater motivation for the participant. But also the prize may not be appealing to all contenders.

I wonder if it’s ever occurred to believers that this great reward called heaven is not at all appealing to every individual (repented or not) and may to some appear as an unexciting habitat.

If heaven is to be the ultimate eternal reward for every believer then shouldn’t the reward be befitting for all?

Now I gather that the pleasures of the world do not essentially correspond to the pleasures found in heaven – but can heaven satisfy everyone who believes?

If each individual has their own understanding of pleasure, what if the pleasures to be found in heaven does not appeal to all religious people? does that still make heaven a reward for the unimpressed individual?

Relatively, heaven only sounds more attractive than hell due to the absence of pain but wouldn’t boredom feature if there are certain repetitive activities which are of no interest to the believer?

(And another thing which I find extremely odd - for a religion that professes that materialism is a worldly vice; ironically heaven sounds pretty materialistic in nature.)

Description of paradise (heaven) in the koran. . . .

"The description of Paradise which the righteous have been promised is that in it are rivers of water, the taste and smell of which are never changed. Rivers of milk the taste of which will remain unchanged. Rivers of wine that will be delicious to those who drink from it and rivers of clear, pure honey. For them will be every kind of fruit and forgiveness form their Lord."
[ 47:15]

"And their recompense shall be Paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient. Reclining on raised thrones, they will see there neither the excessive heat of the sun, nor the excessive bitter cold, (as in Paradise there is no sun and no moon). The shade will be close upon them, and bunches of fruit will hang low within their reach. Vessels of silver and cups of crystal will be passed around amongst them, crystal-clear, made of silver. They will determine the measure of them according to their wishes. They will be given a cup (of wine) mixed with Zanjabeel, and a fountain called Salsabeel. Around them will (serve) boys of perpetual youth. If you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls. When you look there (in Paradise) you will see a delight (that cannot be imagined), and a Great Dominion. Their garments will be of fine green silk and gold embroidery. They will be adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord will give them a pure drink."
[76:12-21]

"And those foremost (In Tawheed and obedience to Allah and His Messenger in this life) will be foremost (in Paradise). They will be those nearest to Allah in the Gardens of Delight. A multitude of those (the foremost) will be from the first generation (who embraced Islam) and a few of those (the foremost) will be from the later (generations). They will be reclining, face to face, on thrones woven with gold and precious stones. They will be served by immortal boys, with cups and jugs, and a glass from the flowing wine, from which they will have neither any headache, nor any intoxication. They will have fruit from which they may choose, and the flesh of fowls that they desire. There will be Houris with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the pious), like preserved pearls, a reward for deeds that they used to do. They will hear no vain or sinful speech (like backbiting, etc.) but only the saying of: Salam, Salam, (greetings of peace). And those on the Right Hand, who will be those on the Right Hand? They will be among thorn-less lote-trees among Talh (banana trees) with fruits piled one above another, in long-extended shade, by constantly flowing water, and fruit in plenty, whose season is not limited, and their supply will not be cut off. They will be on couches or thrones raised high. Verily, We have created for them (maidens) of equal age, loving (their husbands only). For those on the Right Hand."
[56:10-38]

"Verily, the dwellers of Paradise that Day, will be busy in joyful things. They and their wives will be in pleasant shade, reclining on thrones. They will have therein fruits (of all kinds), and all that they will ask for. (It will be said to them): "Salamun" (Peace be on you), a Word from the Lord, Most Merciful."
[36:55-58]

Description of heaven in the bible. . .

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9. And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light [was] like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred [and] forty [and] four cubits, [according to] the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was [of] jasper: and the city [was] pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city [were] garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation [was] jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates [were] twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city [was] pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." (Revelation 21:1-27)

1. And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

How can rational, educated and enlightened people truly believe in this nonsense?. . . .Very mind boggling. . .Rivers of wine, rivers of honey, streets of gold, diamonds which happen to be the most precious substance on earth are not mentioned because they were not discovered yet by the ancients. . .beautiful women creatures, beautiful garment, etc. . .If a child dies at the age of 5 will he remain a baby for ever in heaven?. . . .Crazy fantasies. . .

^^^ A 1K years back, some "Sophisticated pundits" would have said "how can rational, educated, rightly thinking people" say there is computer? Subhannallah. Today. Computers are even an academic tool.

It shows that when a person dies, he will reach a place he would not reach alive. He will discover that there is truly a fitting reward; Mercy for those who obeyed, then justice to those who have not received Mercy and they will get punished as the Judge Wills.

I think you are asking the wrong questions.... The first question you ask yourself whether you believe in a God? If you don't, then there is no need for these questions... you need to answer that fundamental question.

If you do, then the question is:

a.What does this creator expect of me?
b.How do i now what he expects of me?
c.Are there rational explanations to all of this?
d. Does this creator play a part in my life?, if yes, what are the signs of this?

Most importantly, If the signs of a creator and all rational evidences are presented before me, Do i have the courage to take this path?

If you do, fine::

If you don't, i guess you have to start from question 1 again...

Sweetnecta: ^^^ A 1K years back, some "Sophisticated pundits" would have said "how can rational, educated, rightly thinking people" say there is computer? Subhannallah. Today. Computers are even an academic tool.

It shows that when a person dies, he will reach a place he would not reach alive. He will discover that there is truly a fitting reward; Mercy for those who obeyed, then justice to those who have not received Mercy and they will get punished as the Judge Wills.

Your analogy makes no sense. Even though modern computers hadn't been invented 1000 years ago, if it was possible to go back in time and explain the concept of them to a reasonably intelligent person from that era, he'd say "yeah, that makes sense". If you gave such a person the required knowledge and resources, he should be able to build a rudimentary computer, or write a program. In any case, people have been building computers for well over 2000 years (google the "Antikythera mechanism" )

On the other hand, both the christian and muslim concepts of heaven made no sense either back then or now. They are both full of logical holes which were just as gaping back when Paul and MHMD were founding their respective religions as they are now. People have merely chosen to ignore those holes and accept that god and heaven exist through blind faith, because they don't have any better way of explaining things; or because of intellectual cowardice.

tbaba1234: I think you are asking the wrong questions.... The first question you ask yourself whether you believe in a God? If you don't, then there is no need for these questions... you need to answer that fundamental question.

If you do, then the question is:

a.What does this creator expect of me?
b.How do i now what he expects of me?
c.Are there rational explanations to all of this?
d. Does this creator play a part in my life?, if yes, what are the signs of this?

Most importantly, If the signs of a creator and all rational evidences are presented before me, Do i have the courage to take this path?

If you do, fine::

If you don't, i guess you have to start from question 1 again...

Hhmmn . . .I've actually pondered on these questions before.

[Quote]Your analogy makes no sense. Even though modern computers hadn't been invented 1000 years ago, if it was possible to go back in time and explain the concept of them to a reasonably intelligent person from that era, he'd say "yeah, that makes sense". If you gave such a person the required knowledge and resources, he should be able to build a rudimentary computer, or write a program. In any case, people have been building computers for well over 2000 years (google the "Antikythera mechanism" )[/Quote]Dhubai is Paradise for many. Have you heard almost heaven? Thats the nickname of West Virginia.


[Quote]On the other hand, both the christian and muslim concepts of heaven made no sense either back then or now. They are both full of logical holes which were just as gaping back when Paul and MHMD were founding their respective religions as they are now. People have merely chosen to ignore those holes and accept that god and heaven exist through blind faith, because they don't have any better way of explaining things; or because of intellectual cowardice.[/Quote]What is above the sky is not "heavens"? Do you have a proof? What do you think is beyond the moon? You think there is nothingness beyond all the moving "heavenly bodies"? You think that the "exploded" body to all the bodies swimming away in their respective designed course, path, maintaining their positions, do not have a limited boundary [what is marking the end of their existence], where they will not be able to penetrate, rendering their speed to be zero, ending their journey? This boundary, if they can reach it before they lose speed and begin to return to their origin is the first heaven or simply "heaven". Your mind can't understand it does not to mean that it does not happen, in the same breath that a baby in the womb does not know he can be fed outside the womb without the umbilical cord.

mazaje: Rivers of wine, rivers of honey, streets of gold, diamonds. . . .beautiful women creatures, beautiful garment, etc. . .

Does it not sound materialistic and vain? For religions which mark materialism as a worldly vice, why then do their final destinations promise much of such in abundance?

^^

What do you need rivers of honey, rivers of wine and lots of women for? There are many people that get all these things here on earth. . .The islamic heaven to me is just the fantasy of perverted men. . .The christian heaven the fantasy of persecuted and oppressed men. . .

mazaje: What do you need rivers of honey, rivers of wine and lots of women for?

Na enjoyment nau. Who no like good thing before? See as e con resemble bribe sef. But as an extra guarantee to attract more followers who may have otherwise been uninterested there is the threat of hell to steer people into the path that leads to heaven.

They are not to be enticed of the things of this world only to be lured by the promise of heaven by things which are of this world or can be found in the world

There are many people that get all these things here on earth. . .

Abi now.

So it’s a sin to be taken in by the pleasures of the world but if one abstains one will get to indulge in such pleasure for eternity as a reward for abstaining from such pleasure.

Basically one will have to travail on earth in order to make it to a place called heaven just to find it’s basically an extension of earth

I would have thought that something that we earthly beings have not already experienced would have been a more apt "reward".

emöfine2:

Na enjoyment nau. Who no like good thing before? See as e con resemble bribe sef. But as an extra guarantee to attract more followers who may have otherwise been uninterested there is the threat of hell to steer people into the path that leads to heaven.

Ridiculous bribe sef, but all these good things can be gotten here on earth, many people live in houses with gold furniture, wear very good clothes, have lots of women to have sex with, have endless supply of wine, are never in very hot or very cold environment, even if its very hot or cold they don;t feel it either because they are always in an air conditioned or fully heated environment where ever they go. . . .The idea of hell is quite understandable. . .It forces people in line and make them accept the nonsense out of fear of the unknown. . .

They are not to be enticed of the things of this world only to be lured by the promise of heaven by things which are of this world or can be found in the world

Abi now.

So it’s a sin to be taken in by the pleasures of the world but if one abstains one will get to indulge in such materialism for eternity
Basically one will have to travail on earth in order to make it to a place called heaven just to find it’s basically an extension of earth
I would have thought that something that we earthly beings have not already experienced or had knowledge of would have been a more apt "reward".

Yes ohh,. . .Very well said. . .everything to be found in heaven exist here on earth so what exactly is all the fantasy about?. . .

Hasn't the thread lost it's original focus and arn't you people twisting religious logic out of shape a bit? No mainstream religious text tells you to give up luxury. You are simply not to pursue them at the expense of following God. The logic behind these promises is that even if you miss them in this world you will get them in the next.

MyJoe: Hasn't the thread lost it's original focus and arn't you people twisting religious logic out of shape a bit?

Then please help me understand. I'm asking questions for people to clarify certain things which appear confusing.
Yes I’ve deviated somewhat. In fact I wish I just started a new thread altogether addressing this seeming contradiction of sorts but nevertheless here we are.

No mainstream religious text tells you to give up luxury. You are simply not to pursue them at the expense of following God. The logic behind these promises is that even if you miss them in this world you will get them in the next.

I understand that certain things of the world could pose as a distraction and set the believer off course so certain things of this world are forbidden so as not to lead the believer astray. There are requirements that are expected of believers.

If gold streets (corresponding to the biblical description of heaven) and beautiful never-ending virgin female characters (corresponding to the Quaranic description of heaven) are rewards for remaining “righteous” and abstaining from the vices of this world – materialism - then does that not expose some contradiction and imperfection of the sought after utopia?

If one is not to be lured by the worldly pleasures in order to qualify an entry into a habitat that promises so much more of some of that pleasures – how does that separate the supposed “righteous” believer from the “heathen”?

I.e. on earth one must not drink wine because one has been promised if they abstain then they can drink wine for eternity

Why is this abode somewhat materialistic in nature when such vanity is disapproved of on earth?

How can materialism be a reward for spiritualism? The two concepts are mutually exclusive.

The heaven in the bible appears to be of a regal nature whilst the heaven in the Quaran appears to be of a sensual nature

Heaven's where i come from. There's no place like home. Over here, i'm a stranger. That i'm going home is enough to satisfy. In God's presence, there is fulness, sorry, fullness of joy. Over here on strange land, na so so intermittent joy with lotsa loads of toil, sin and temptation.

you know people need to get over this HEAVEN and HELL conspiracy. there is no heaven in the skies, there is no magical thing that happens in heaven. heaven simply means rulership of the earth. THATS ALL IT MEANS. the lord exalts a race of people to be in control of the world. that race of people are in heaven and if they rule accordingly ? then everyone else will be in heaven with them ( proverbs 29 vs 2). but if the exalted race of people rule unrighteously, then every other race of people will be in mourning (hell) while that race that is in rulership is in heaven. (like for example after romans 11 vs 11, the edomites also known as caucasians have been exalted to rule the earth but they are not ruling righteously and because of that, white people are in heaven while everyone else is in hell ). that is all heaven and hell is. rulership and subjugation. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS. however the new thing that will happen now is thet christ will return and will with 144,000 righteous black men, rule the world righteously forever and ever. this way everyone on earth will be happy because the righteous are ruling. so in 'heaven' when christ is on earth, its still the same thing that is happening today that will be happening. only difference is their will be righteousness and happiness and plenty on earth so no need for crime or evil. and if you do evil everyone will be judged righteously not according to race as the white man does. like iin the white mans courts a black man will do 3 times more for the same crime than a white man etc etc. so we are in caucasian heaven now while the rest of us are in hell. i have biblical verses for all i have written, let me know if you want it

buzugee:
you know people need to get over this HEAVEN and HELL conspiracy. there is no heaven in the skies, there is no magical thing that happens in heaven. heaven simply means rulership of the earth. THATS ALL IT MEANS. the lord exalts a race of people to be in control of the world. that race of people are in heaven and if they rule accordingly ? then everyone else will be in heaven with them ( proverbs 29 vs 2). but if the exalted race of people rule unrighteously, then every other race of people will be in mourning (hell) while that race that is in rulership is in heaven. (like for example after romans 11 vs 11, the edomites also known as caucasians have been exalted to rule the earth but they are not ruling righteously and because of that, white people are in heaven while everyone else is in hell ). that is all heaven and hell is. rulership and subjugation. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS. however the new thing that will happen now is thet christ will return and will with 144,000 righteous black men, rule the world righteously forever and ever. this way everyone on earth will be happy because the righteous are ruling. so in 'heaven' when christ is on earth, its still the same thing that is happening today that will be happening. only difference is their will be righteousness and happiness and plenty on earth so no need for crime or evil. and if you do evil everyone will be judged righteously not according to race as the white man does. like iin the white mans courts a black man will do 3 times more for the same crime than a white man etc etc. so we are in caucasian heaven now while the rest of us are in hell. i have biblical verses for all i have written, let me know if you want it

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

@Emofine; good morning woman.

mazaje: Rivers of wine, rivers of honey, streets of gold, diamonds. . . .beautiful women creatures, beautiful garment, etc. . .


Does it not sound materialistic and vain? undecided For religions which mark materialism as a worldly vice, why then do their final destinations promise much of such in abundance? undecided

A baby in the mother's womb may say canned milk/creamer for your tea is materialist and vain, especially when he gets his nutrient from the womb. Lets make it easier; a little boy may say a wealthy man with just 2 fancy cars is so materialistic and vain. Wouldn't the baby in the womb and or the little boy be wrong in the eyes of the people on earth who can't eat from the womb any more and or the wealthy man who uses these cars as business tools? This is the position of paradise, its benefit to the fortunate inhabitants relative to what you are looking at on earth. I don't drink, for example, but the effect of alcohol, I bet is exciting in the proper setting; say between spouses. Most people avoid se.x before they able to handle it; say because it will affect the academic interest. But when the same person is successful and marries the most desired person in the community, the se.x with the spouse becomes a reward and those who have not or may never achieved to have such a spouse will say; thats vain, and or materialistic. It is a reward; muslims deserve it, if their God gives it to them for shunning the excesses and restrictions because it is commanded on them on earth.

What do you need rivers of honey, rivers of wine and lots of women for? There are many people that get all these things here on earth. . .The islamic heaven to me is just the fantasy of perverted men. . .The christian heaven the fantasy of persecuted and oppressed men. . .

Many of us restrict ourselves from acting out that perversion. If it is perversion here, can it be perversion in paradise, where the rule is changed, in the same way survival in womb is different in need and functions to the survival of people outside the womb? Maybe there is nothing called perversion in paradise since all conditions on earth will be irrelevant to the permanent condition of paradise. Jealousy is removed from the heart of the people of paradise, so is guilt, vanity, etc.

MyJoe: Hasn't the thread lost it's original focus and aren't you people twisting religious logic out of shape a bit?
Then please help me understand. I'm asking questions for people to clarify certain things which appear confusing.
Yes I’ve deviated somewhat. In fact I wish I just started a new thread altogether addressing this seeming contradiction of sorts but nevertheless here we are.

No mainstream religious text tells you to give up luxury. You are simply not to pursue them at the expense of following God. The logic behind these promises is that even if you miss them in this world you will get them in the next

.

Lets try this logic as it will make it simple to digest; A little boy is told not to drive his father's 4 wheels drive however attractive it is, tempting to do, however. But if he waits until he is 6 ft tall, he will be big enough to see the road very clearly and be completely coordinated, with strength to steer the heavy vehicle to destination without getting to an accident. Shall we on his behalf or he on his own behalf speak ill of his father or the condition set forth before him so that he does not lose limbs or worse additionally damage the car, homes and other people if he drive as a 3 feet pint size man, instead of until when he is 6ft? Is it not a better thing for him to wait as dad suggested, at which time his father can give him a new mercedes benz because he has suddenly became a model child, the hope of the father in the first place? You appreciate beauty, according to you, emofine. You should appreciate this; the beauty of the young man, now, rather than the face smashed against the windshield 6 year old 3 footer kid. Paradise of the muslims is the end result of being obedience and God showers pleasure on those who obey.

I understand that certain things of the world could pose as a distraction and set the believer off course so certain things of this world are forbidden so as not to lead the believer astray. There are requirements that are expected of believers.
If gold streets (corresponding to the biblical description of heaven) and beautiful never-ending virgin female characters (corresponding to the Quaranic description of heaven) are rewards for remaining “righteous” and abstaining from the vices of this world – materialism - then does that not expose some contradiction and imperfection of the sought after utopia?
If one is not to be lured by the worldly pleasures in order to qualify an entry into a habitat that promises so much more of some of that pleasures – how does that separate the supposed “righteous” believer from the “heathen”?

I.e. on earth one must not drink wine because one has been promised if they abstain then they can drink wine for eternity undecided
Why is this abode somewhat materialistic in nature when such vanity is disapproved of on earth?
How can materialism be a reward for spiritualism? The two concepts are mutually exclusive.
The heaven in the bible appears to be of a regal nature whilst the heaven in the Quaran appears to be of a sensual nature undecided

As I read your opinion, I can't but remember the poor jewess on the street of Cairo in a true story recounted by a sheikh, in the life of an old muslim scholar. The poor woman ran after this scholar in elegant clothing riding a priced horse. She asked "your Quran says this world is the prison of believers and paradise of disbelievers. How are you in prison while am in paradise, when it is obvious that you are living a good life and am a poor wretched woman?" The scholar told her that "InshaAllah on the Day of Judgment, when I look back to earth, regardless of the good life I had lived there, what I will enjoy in Paradise will make that earthly living like prison to me. And those who will enter hell because of disbelief, when their condition is compared to all the poverty they suffered on earth, they will wish to return to the earthly poverty because it would be like paradise compared to their condition in hell". Emofine. God is real. So are His Promises; rewards in goodness, punishment for primarily being disbelieving of His Godship, Alone.

Image123: Heaven's where i come from. There's no place like home. Over here, i'm a stranger. That i'm going home is enough to satisfy. In God's presence, there is fulness, sorry, fullness of joy. Over here on strange land, na so so intermittent joy with lotsa loads of toil, sin and temptation.

I hope you die and go to heaven tomorrow. .. . .

mazaje:

I hope you die and go to heaven tomorrow. .. . .

That's very sweet of you mazaje. Fortunately, it's in God's hands when i die and go home. Tomorrow would be fine BTW. I wish you could also hope and pray that Jesus should come soon and put an end to this hopeless world.

Hhmm what's my idea of heaven?

Not streets of gold (I’m not much a fan of gold)
Not 72 virgin female characters (although I believe that reward is more gender specific eh)

My idea of heaven is to see my family forever happy and at peace and for me. . .I wanna fly and not be limited.
I want to soar above this earthly habitat and seek more knowledge and communicate with all different types of creatures. . .my ideal utopia is not promised in these holy books so how would a person such as me be moved or motivated by that which does not excite me in the least? And I'm sure my own idea of "heaven" is bland to others.
So how can the promised "paradise" described at length in these holy books pose as a glorious reward or loss for the uninterested individual?

I am just one out of many, unimpressed by these scriptural renderings of heaven.

If the heaven in the Quaran does not move a person shall such person go and seek the heaven promised in the bible? But what then? . . . .What if that fails to grabs one’s attention also?

Is not our own romantic idealistic notion of “heaven” personal anyway? Is it not subjective? We all have differing desires.

There's no sorrow in Heaven. There's no pain, no sickness, no death. How that doesn't meet your need is flabbergasting.

Image123: There's no sorrow in Heaven. There's no pain, no sickness, no death. How that doesn't meet your need is flabbergasting.

Nice try . . .but I'm sure you know what I was trying to get at.

Of course in any utopian-like realm there has to be an absence of bleakness. But one person’s idea of enjoyment may not appeal to another.
I don’t wish to be “before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple”. Such sounds tedious and not exactly exciting or rewarding for me.
Pain may be absent but I would not want to be fixed in a permanent abode worshiping the feet of this enigmatic entity for all of eternity - that is not a heaven that appeals to me.

And who said that you would be “before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple”. Have you ever been before the throne of God? Have you ever served Him before His temple? How do you ascertain that such experience would not be orga.smic for you having never experienced it?

Image123: And who said that you would be “before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple”.

Er. . .the “word of god” aka the bible quoted from revelations 7:15.

With all due respect what type of reward is that for any believer?

So as a reward for remaining faithful on earth they’ll get to worship this god for eternity?

It sounds more rewarding for this god than the obedient servants if you ask me.

Image123, when I was younger I used to attend church irregularly and the worst activity I was made to be a part of was singing and worship. I didn’t like it at all so for heaven to feature much of the same thing but on a greater scale and for eternity actually turns me right off.

But maybe you’re right. I may not be considering this with an open mind. Like you said, how do I possibly know how it would be like. . . .who knows it might just be an “org[i]a[/i]sm[i]i[/i]c” experience for me to be worshipping the feet of this entity for eternity. . .oh boy imagine what it must be like for “him” then.

Funny how the reward of the “righteous” appears to be more rewarding of their entity. Or is that their reward? Being able to indulge their god?

Good, so you've never been in God's presence, neither have you ever served Him in His temple. You're not in good position then to fully ascertain your experience of Him.
Singing and worship in RCCG parish A would be different from singing and worship in RCCG parish B. Many things influence that e.g instrument, instrumentalist, worship leader, attendance etc. Singing and worship in RCCG is different from singing and worship in Synagogue. Singing and worship in S.West Nigeria is different from singing and worship in N.East China. Singing and worship in christiandom is different from singing and worship in muslimdom. My drift being, your singing and worship experience is different from the one in Heaven. Heaven's is pure heavenly, literally.

emofine?

Image123:
That's very sweet of you mazaje. Fortunately, it's in God's hands when i die and go home. Tomorrow would be fine BTW. I wish you could also hope and pray that Jesus should come soon and put an end to this hopeless world.

Jesus ain't coming man. . .He even told some of his followers that they will come during their life time. . That was 2000 years ago. . .Some of the people that brought the Jesus fable to you are thinking of interplanetary travel and you are hear waiting for Jesus to come take you "home" and bring an end to the world as we know it. . . . You go wait tire. . .

mazaje:

Jesus ain't coming man. . .He even told some of his followers that they will come during their life time. . That was 2000 years ago. . .Some of the people that brought the Jesus fable to you are thinking of interplanetary travel and you are hear waiting for Jesus to come take you "home" and bring an end to the world as we know it. . . . You go wait tire. . .

keep laughing, a reply to your comment is in 2nd peters 3: 3-8

3-To begin with, you must know and understand this, that scoffers (mockers) will come in the last days with scoffing, [people who] walk after their own fleshly desires

4-And say, Where is the promise of His coming? For since the forefathers fell asleep, all things have continued exactly as they did from the beginning of creation.

5-For they willfully overlook and forget this [fact], that the heavens [came into] existence long ago by the word of God, and the earth also which was formed out of water and by means of water,

6-Through which the world that then [existed] was deluged with water and perished.

7-But by the same word the present heavens and earth have been stored up (reserved) for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly people.

8-Nevertheless, do not let this one fact escape you, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

mazaje
Where's your hope that I'd die and go to Heaven two days ago? Now, you come to mock me. I no fit tire to wait na, my superiors no tire. Plus Jesus didn't say it'd come back during the lifetime of his first twelve disciples. What He said was that no man knew the time, not even Jesus the Son of man.

Image123: mazaje
Where's your hope that I'd die and go to Heaven two days ago? Now, you come to mock me. I no fit tire to wait na, my superiors no tire. Plus Jesus didn't say it'd come back during the lifetime of his first twelve disciples. What He said was that no man knew the time, not even Jesus the Son of man.

Jesus told the high priest that he will see him coming from the clouds. . . .

But Jesus was silent. And the high priest said to him, "I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." Jesus said to him, "You have said so. But I[b] tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven[/b]." Matthew 26:63–64

That was over 2000 years ago. . .

Jesus according to the story also told his followers to keep running from persecution, they will not finish going round israel before he returns. . . .

When you are persecuted in one town, flee to the next. I tell you the truth, the Son of Man will return before you have reached all the towns of Israel. Matthew 10:23

Jesus gave a litany of events that will happen and concluded by saying that it will happen in his generation. . .

I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Mark 13:30