https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATCa_eiu91I

Interesting..up to the 9th minute mark so far.

Do you all support the Tuareg independence movement?

Perhaps put up a poll.

^^

you are right but Tuareg's are mostly Normand that is the problem they should know that once they become an independent country they cant grazing their cows and goats in another country that will lead to another conflicts with their neighboring countries..................

ekt_bear: Interesting..up to the 9th minute mark so far.

Do you all support the Tuareg independence movement?

Perhaps put up a poll.

It's easy to guess the result of the poll, if it were to be done on regional basis. I imagine the following responses:

Do you support Mali Splitting?

SS - Yes
SE - Yes
SW - Indifferent (split vote)
NC - Indifferent (split vote)
NE - NO
NW - NO

i support a country for the Tuareg people. I believe the mali army is fell up with fghting, that why they stage a coup and they want to see peace in their own country. and the only way to have peace in mali is to break up mali into two countries. I think Ecowas should recognized the Tuareg independence state as part of ecowas.

I have knew people from mali for many years. And I will say must of them want an end to this war. And that why the military overthrow the govt because the president did not want the end to the war. I understand how the army feel. And I think. Ecowas and AU should call the leaders of the Tuareg independence movement and the mali govt and draw a new map of two countries. And help them seek a status at the united nation.

This is my believe.

I can't support them if they take the ancient city of Timbuktu.

The West caused this bs with their intervention in Libya.

I know all the pro-western apologists on this thread will want to deny that.

This is just the beginning - the whole of West Africa will soon be phucked. With the cache of weapons from Libya doing the hail mary everywhere - West Africa is going to be the new East Africa for the next few years.

bittyend: I can't support them if they take the ancient city of Timbuktu.

The West caused this bs with their intervention in Libya.

I know all the pro-western apologists on this thread will want to deny that.

This is just the beginning - the whole of West Africa will soon be phucked. With the cache of weapons from Libya doing the hail mary everywhere - West Africa is going to be the new East Africa for the next few years.

If split of Nigeria is what you are referring to, by all mean, they are welcome! Freedom at last!

PointB:

If split of Nigeria is what you are referring to, by all mean, they are welcome! Freedom at last!

Keep dreaming, I hope you will live to see that freedom - with the tribal wars that will follow the disintegration of Nigeria. This isn't 1967 - we're in 2012. If you don't what war is like - youtube is your best friend.

bittyend:

Keep dreaming, I hope you will live to see that freedom - with the tribal wars that will follow the disintegration of Nigeria. This isn't 1967 - we're in 2012. If you don't what war is like - youtube is your best friend.

I am dreaming you are fretting, who is in worst position? Clearly you are wired to piss in your pants at the mention of the word 'war', sorry bruv, we dont share the same fear. I for one will like to see a negotiated split of Nigeria, but if the negotiation will end up being done with AK47, artillery fire, and missiles, so be it. The end will justify the means!

PointB:

I am dreaming you are fretting, who is in worst position? Clearly you are wired to piss in your pants at the mention of the word 'war', sorry bruv, we dont share the same fear. I for one will like to see a negotiated split of Nigeria, but if the negotiation will end up being done with AK47, artillery fire, and missiles, so be it. The end will justify the means!

Afraid of war?? That's not in my DNA... How can I be afraid of war when I just enrolled in the Royal Navy??

Just be careful what you wish for, and no moaning afterwards.

bittyend:

Afraid of war?? That's not in my DNA... How can I be afraid of war when I just enrolled in the Royal Navy??

Just be careful what you wish for, and no moaning afterwards.

I know what I wish for! Do you know what you want?
Why am I even wasting my time on you.

Good night!

So I apologize in advance for bringing up the racial dimension (I know that it is poor form)...but nobody feels slightly twinged that black folk are in the process of losing half of this country to the Tuareg (certainly an indigenous African people, but appearance-wise closer to white)?

I know it is irrational, but there is something...annoying...about this to me.

ekt_bear: So I apologize in advance for bringing up the racial dimension (I know that it is poor form)...but nobody feels slightly twinged that black folk are in the process of losing half of this country to the Tuareg (certainly an indigenous African people, but appearance-wise closer to white)?

I know it is irrational, but there is something...annoying...about this to me.

ekt_bear, It's a point that we will have to ponder and explore. I wasn't expecting that emotion from you on this issue though.




Having said that, I'm kinda "Conflicted" about this Mali situation. I'm no Mali expert by any means but I read quite a bit about W.A politics to make some observations.

One, The Tuaregs are a true minority in Mali and one must sympathise with the burden that comes with that. larger Ethnic groups like the Mandigos (mandikas?) control more political and economic power than the Tuaregs in Mali. It is not surprising that these people do not feel welcomed.

But the issue for me extends a little bit beyond Mali. One, I'm worried about the AQIM link and the fact that Tuareg and other marginalized and closely affiliated Nomadic groups like them might be interested in taking this "Mali Victory" further. That possibility cannot be good for W.A peace.

Two, Nigeria shares a large border with Niger, a country with a sizable Tuareg Population. Also we have Fulanis who are also present and marginalized in Mali and closely associated with Tuaregs in this struggle. That worries me because of the AQIM link and the fact that we have a brewing rebellion in our hands here -Boko Haram.

Three, there is the issue of weapons looted from Libya during their civil war, I read that the Tuaregs were closely associated with Ghaddafi at that time and they have many of his weapons in their possession. That is disturbing, because it's obvious now that they can put it to "good" use. I'm sure other Tuareg groups can too.

Back to Nigeria, Many of those weapons where reportedly smuggled into Nigeria via NIger, I don't know if those reports are true but I remember reading them during the Libyan conflict.

Finally , there are reports of large deposits of Uranium in the North of Mali. That is important.

Anyway, In geo-politics, It's better to treat conspiracy-like stories with some respect, it's often foolish to ignore them totally. I dey look.




NB: I was not a fan of Ghaddafi, but I'm worried about the absence of a Ghaddafi-like figure in the Sahel Region at this time, There seems to be a vaccum, Hopefully Nigeria and Ecowas can fill it.

Timbuktu is going to be the hard part in this deal. The Tuareg people should be made to give up Timbuktu to mali. As an africa, I believe that mali should have Timbuktu. But It does not mean, that I do not believe the Tuareg people should not have their country. I believe the tuareg should have a country without timbuktu. And that can be easily work since timbuktu would end up been a border town in mali.

I believe the tuareg should have a country without timbuktu.

Tombouctou Region should be divided into two and one portion should go to the Tuareg people. While timbuktu should remain in mali . Black africa history will not be complete without timbuktu.

Race should not be brought in this discussion. The Tuareg are an indigenous African people, who have been present in that region of Africa for thousands of years. They are the true Lords of the Sahara and they were one of a few Berber groups who did not embrace an Arab identity. The Tuareg homeland is one of the last bastions of Amazigh culture in North Africa. While the rest of the Berber people in North Africa from Libya to Morocco claim an Arab identity, they are in reality Berbers, who no longer speak a Berber language. Even Gaddafi was not really an Arab, but a Berber. However, I think the term Berber is now seen as an insult to many North Africans.

I do worry about the impact that an Azawad secession would have on the entire West African region. The Tuareg could become emboldened by their success in Mali and start a rebellion in neighboring Niger where the Tuareg population is larger than the Tuareg population in Mali. These Tuareg are a battle hardened people after seeing years of conflict in their home countries and the training they received by Gaddafi. It should be remembered that Gaddafi used the Tuareg as a proxy to destabilize that region at times, in which he unleashed them on Niger and Mali.

I also find it troubling that the nominally Muslim Tuareg have allowed Islamist into their ranks. From what I hear about Tuareg culture, even though they say they are Muslim, they still practice their pre-Islamic traditions. Just look at how the men where a blue veil, while you can see their women face. In addition, many Tuareg enjoy to drink liquor and they know how to party. But the Tuareg have a saying, "kiss the hand you cannot sever." Maybe that is why they allowed them to join their ranks, because the ends may justify the means.

ekt_bear:
So I apologize in advance for bringing up the racial dimension (I know that it is poor form)...but nobody feels slightly twinged that black folk are in the process of losing half of this country to the Tuareg (certainly an indigenous African people, but appearance-wise closer to white)?

ya I recognize that.

A lot of African people like to preach diversity and never want to acknowledge the racial differences of Africans (all Africans are not Black: ie. berber, coptic, arab, tuareg, fulani)

there is definitely a racial aspect of this conflict and it's evident when your read things such as:

"Commentators on television are already talking about the possible partition of Mali, which has weathered numerous rebellions by the lighter-skinned Tuaregs who have long felt marginalized by the darker-skinned Bambaras, who dominate the south where the seat of government is located."

source: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/islamist-group-plants-flag-timbuktu-rebel-takeover-crisis-095408843.html


I think Malians should demand that once Tuaregs set up their state in the North that Tuaregs in the south leave. Tuaregs can't have their cake and eat it to.

Nebeuwa:
The Tuareg could become emboldened by their success in Mali and start a rebellion in neighboring Niger where the Tuareg population is larger than the Tuareg population in Mali.

Yeah, Nigeria should watch out. Fulani are a nomadic group similar to the Tuareg where they have many of their members in various West African countries.

Kilode?!:





NB: I was not a fan of Ghaddafi, but I'm worried about the absence of a Ghaddafi-like figure in the Sahel Region at this time, There seems to be a vaccum, Hopefully Nigeria and Ecowas can fill it.

Ghaddafi is responsible for this uprising in the northern Mali, He is the Devil incarnate,we don't need another Ghaddafi. Thank God he is dead.

PointB:

It's easy to guess the result of the poll, if it were to be done on regional basis. I imagine the following responses:

Do you support Mali Splitting?

SS - Yes
SE - Yes
SW - NO
NC -Split - Yes -plateau,benue,southern kaduna,taraba
- NO - niger,kwara,adamawa
undecided - kogi,nasarawa
NE - NO
NW - NO

corrected.

I don't know why we Africans are intent on staying in European contraptions. We have existed for thousands of years in our Kingdoms doing no worse than our European contemporaries until the last 100 years. Where we have spent most of our time fighting senseless tribal wars and spewing hate instead of remaining or resorting to our previous kingdoms and focus our energies on harnessing our potentials.

I support this Tuareg movement and I suggest most West and Central African countries need to split along ethnic lines until we find economic stability then we can do the AU a la EU thing.

The Tuaregs are marginalised and have barely seen any form of government presence for a very long time.


Ethiopia, Sudan and now Mali. One day Nigeria, DRC, Somalia and even Senegal would split to form working countries. We are fiercely tribal and this indirect rule by the Europeans certainly cemented it. They have made us love our ethnic origins even more as evidenced by many of the NL respondents who open silly threads glorifying a kinsman's achievement as a reason why their tribe is superior. That sentiment is shared by a majority of Africans.

That superiority complex should be channeled to National supremacy where it would be beneficial as opposed to the current situation where it causes nepotism, poverty and conflict.

ow11: I don't know why we Africans are intent on staying in European contraptions. We have existed for thousands of years in our Kingdoms doing no worse than our European contemporaries until the last 100 years. Where we have spent most of our time fighting senseless tribal wars and spewing hate instead of remaining or resorting to our previous kingdoms and focus our energies on harnessing our potentials.

I support this Tuareg movement and I suggest most West and Central African countries need to split along ethnic lines until we find economic stability then we can do the AU a la EU thing.

The Tuaregs are marginalised and have barely seen any form of government presence for a very long time.


Ethiopia, Sudan and now Mali. One day Nigeria, DRC, Somalia and even Senegal would split to form working countries. We are fiercely tribal and this indirect rule by the Europeans certainly cemented it. They have made us love our ethnic origins even more as evidenced by many of the NL respondents who open silly threads glorifying a kinsman's achievement as a reason why their tribe is superior. That sentiment is shared by a majority of Africans.

That superiority complex should be channeled to National supremacy where it would be beneficial as opposed to the current situation where it causes nepotism, poverty and conflict.

Does the northern part of Mali that the Tuareg have invaded belong to them?

Arosa:

Does the northern part of Mali that the Tuareg have invaded belong to them?

the people who live in that geographical expression called mali,historians and lawyers should come out and tell us if tuaregs are malians or if any land in northern mali belongs to the tuaregs.the people of mali should dialogue with the tuareg and allow them to have independence.I support this tuareg movement for independence.Africans should learn to redrawn the map of their nations for the sake of peace,progress and development.

^^^ The Tuareg are nomads,they claim a large area of land as theirs. Do you think its fair to hand them these area of land at the expense of other tribes that live there, even though their population is very little.

Arosa: ^^^ The Tuareg are nomads,they claim a large area of land as theirs. Do you think its fair to hand them these area of land at the expense of other tribes that live there, even though their population is very little.

Well, first of all, much of that land is the Sahara desert. So pretty much useless land.

Second, they are indigenous to that land. So it isn't really anyone "handing" it to them....it is their ancestral land.

Kilode?!: What can I say but that you've made a phenomenal post and brought up some very interesting issues. Yeah, a lot of dominoes seem to be falling with the recent ouster of Ghadaffi. And I agree, I don't think all of the dominoes have fallen yet..

Arosa: ^^^ The Tuareg are nomads,they claim a large area of land as theirs. Do you think its fair to hand them these area of land at the expense of other tribes that live there, even though their population is very little.

i actually dont know much about tuaregs but if they are claiming such a large area that stretches through mali,niger,lybia,algeria;then they are asking for too much.

I think this is the most accurate map of the Tuareg homeland.

[img]http://kcm.co/bethany/p_maps/tuareg.gif[/img]

Parts of Algeria, Libya, Niger and Mali make up their original homeland. Even though they are a nomadic people, they do have a claim to these areas, because many of the cities found in that region were settled by them including the fable city of Timbuktu.

Guess the state of Azawad is now born.

I understand there is a sizable(60,000?) tuareg population in Nigeria called the Iwellemmedan who migrated to Nigeria between 1972 and 1982 . . . primarily residing around Kano and Sokoto

African Union imposes sanctions on Mali coup + rebel leaders




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf0ubTfYZ4c