There seems to be a wave of criminality that is impacting some British of Nigerian descent. Everyday, we hear news of another young Nigerian either committing a crime, or being the victim of crime in the United Kingdom. What I want to know is what is the problem?

The same cannot be said of Nigerians who live in the United States. It is very rare that you hear about a Nigerian in the United States being involved in a gang. It is so rare, that I have never heard of such, even though I know it probably does exist. Are there any differences between the Nigerians in the United States and Nigerians in the United Kingdom?

I have my own hypothesis, in which Nigerians in American want to differentiate themselves from African Americans who are often seen at the lower levels of United State society, but Nigerians in the United Kingdom do not have that luxury to differentiate themselves from other black groups in the UK since they are all recent arrivals.

Another hypothesis that I have is that there are more opportunities for Nigerians born in the United States than Nigerians born in the United Kingdom. The U.S. is more of a merit based society, even though it is being eroded compared to the United Kingdom when it depends on not only your social class, but also your pedigree.

Are there any other reasons that you can think of?

^^^Poverty, class, long working hours, and absentee fathers... Most Nigerians don't even know that most of the Nigerians born in the UK are from single parent home - it's either the dad is there but don't care about the family - or he's absent...

I may also add the over-dependence on welfare, and the naive parents to the list.

Interesting questions!

shymmex: ^^^Poverty, class, long working hours, and absentee fathers... Most Nigerians don't even know that most of the Nigerians born in the UK are from single parent home - it's either the dad is there but don't care about the family - or he's absent...

I may also add the over-dependence on welfare, and the naive parents to the list.

That is interesting you bring that up. This is the problem with many African Americans, in which the absentee father has eroded the family structure. Seems like there are similarities between Nigerians in Britain and African Americans.

In the United States, it is not easy for foreigners to go on welfare, so they have to work very hard either at a university or some menial job. Most Nigerians who come to the United States, come here to get an education, and that may also translate to differences amongst each community.

Nebeuwa:

That is interesting you bring that up. This is the problem with many African Americans, in which the absentee father has eroded the family structure. Seems like there are similarities between Nigerians in Britain and African Americans.

In the United States, it is not easy for foreigners to go on welfare, so they have to work very hard either at a university or some menial job. Most Nigerians who come to the United States, come here to get an education, and that may also translate to differences amongst each community.

The bolded part is the difference.. The Nigerians who came to UK solely for education, usually move back to Nigeria - only few of them stay behind.. The opportunities available for blacks in the UK are limited, compared to America where Nigerians can take advantage of affirmative action.

Seems like there are similarities between Nigerians in Britain and African Americans.

interesting comparison but i dont think its quite accurate.

who knows sha.

or maybe you mean black british and AAs.

shymmex:

The bolded part is the difference.. The Nigerians who came to UK solely for education, usually move back to Nigeria - only few of them stay behind.. The opportunities available for blacks in the UK are limited, compared to America where Nigerians can take advantage of affirmative action.

Then the next question I should ask is why do Nigerians want to stay in the UK when there opportunities are so limited?

In the United States, the possibilities are endless. And I mean they are endless if you put your mind to it.

tpia@:


interesting comparison but i dont think its quite accurate.

who knows sha.

or maybe you mean black british and AAs.

Nigerians in the UK fall into the category of Black British. No need to differentiate. But there is a differentiation between Nigerians and African Americans.

^black british are majorly of carribean descent while nigerian british are of nigerian descent.

this isnt a govt paper, so lets not split hairs.

a large proportion of AAs are also of carribean descent, just like the black british.

however, i agree with you about british of nigerian descent being hugely influenced by other places.

Nebeuwa: There seems to be a wave of criminality that is impacting British of Nigerian descent. Everyday, we here news of another young Nigerian either committing a crime, or being the victim of crime in the United Kingdom. What I want to know is what is the problem?

The same cannot be said of Nigerians who live in the United States. It is very rare that you hear about a Nigerian in the United States being involved in a gang. It is so rare, that I have never heard of such, even though I know it probably does exist. Are there any differences between the Nigerians in the United States and Nigerians in the United Kingdom?

I have my own hypothesis, in which Nigerians in American want to differentiate themselves from African Americans who are often seen at the lower levels of United State society, but Nigerians in the United Kingdom do not have that luxury to differentiate themselves from other black groups in the UK since they are all recent arrivals.

Another hypothesis that I have is that there are more opportunities for Nigerians born in the United States than Nigerians born in the United Kingdom. The U.S. is more of a merit based society, even though it is being eroded compared to the United Kingdom when it depends on not only your social class, but also your pedigree.

Are there any other reasons that you can think of?

@OP.

Some of your claims , with all due respect, are your own generalisations. First of all, it is children with origin from all African nations (Nigerian, Somalian, Ghanaian, Kenyan etc) engaging in crime today. The reason is very simple. Many of these kids are not Nigerian, Ghanaian, Ethiopian per se. They were born and raised in the UK and have grown up with UK gang culture where, in the worst part of London, you join a gang or don't walk the Street. Simple as that.

Gang culture is very pervasive in the UK to the extent some even join gangs in their estate simply to gain the protection that allows them walk a certain section of the estate or even play in a Park. Now, many kids who have gone through the UK School system since a young age simply feel obligated to join a gang for one thing or the other (protection, reputation, respect, getting girls, "getting paid", etc).

It is common these days to see a UK gang with members originating from Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Somalia etc. It is simplistic to think third generations of Nigerians , born and raised in the UK, with no connection to Nigeria, can somehow totally escape the pervasive gang/societal problem the UK is facing. Nigerian parents are not miracle workers who can raise outstanding children anywhere. Many try their best but, ultimately, societal challenges defeats them.

Nebeuwa:

Then the next question I should ask is why do Nigerians want to stay in the UK when there opportunities are so limited?

In the United States, the possibilities are endless. And I mean they are endless if you put your mind to it.

Why do Nigerians stay on in Germany?
Why do we have Nigerians in Sweden?

Are the possibilities really endless, as you put it, in the US of A?

shymmex:

The bolded part is the difference.. The Nigerians who came to UK solely for education, usually move back to Nigeria - only few of them stay behind.. The opportunities available for blacks in the UK are limited, compared to America where Nigerians can take advantage of affirmative action.

Simply not true. Ridiculous actually. This is not the 80ties. Nigerians who improve themselves, to the best extent, and possess sought-after skills, have virtually the same chances of excelling as anyone else in the UK today.

Tell OP the truth and don't indulge his mindset that America is Paradise for Nigerians while the UK is 'barren land'. There is no sector in the UK (health, IT, engineering, Accounting, Property development, teaching et al) that competitive and driven Nigerians, who have made the best of themselves, don't excel in.

The World, in general, is becoming tougher with opportunities becoming more limited. It is not enough to just leave Nigeria, heading for the UK, thinking your success is assured. of course if you are as good as others, or better, you will find that the UK is still one of the best Nations in the entire world as far as the concept of rewarding talent is concerned.

Gbawe:

@OP.

Some of your claims , with all due respect, are your own generalisations. First of all, it is children with origin from all African nations (Nigerian, Somalian, Ghanaian, Kenyan etc) engaging in crime today. The reason is very simple. Many of these kids are not Nigerian, Ghanaian, Ethiopian per se. They were born and raised in the UK and have grown up with UK gang culture where, in the worst part of London, you join a gang or don't walk the Street. Simple as that.

Gang culture is very pervasive in the UK to the extent some even join gangs in their estate simply to gain the protection that allows them walk a certain section of the estate or even play in a Park. Now, many kids who have gone through the UK School system since a young age simply feel obligated to join a gang for one thing or the other (protection, reputation, respect, getting girls, "getting paid", etc).

It is common these days to see a UK gang with members originating from Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Somalia etc. It is simplistic to think third generations of Nigerians , born and raised in the UK, with no connection to Nigeria, can somehow totally escape the pervasive gang/societal problem the UK is facing. Nigerian parents are not miracle workers who can raise outstanding children anywhere. Many try their best but, ultimately, societal challenges defeats them.

Where do these third generation Nigerians born in the UK reside??

99.9% of everyone born here is first generations - the 2nd generations are not even old enough to be gang members..

Subscribing.

shymmex: ^^^Poverty, class, long working hours, and absentee fathers... Most Nigerians don't even know that most of the Nigerians born in the UK are from single parent home - it's either the dad is there but don't care about the family - or he's absent...

I may also add the over-dependence on welfare, and the naive parents to the list.

Ban#g on the money!

We must not shy away from admitting that there is a visible minority of Nigerians who have simply outsourced their parental responsibilities to the British educational/welfare system, with little regard for the attendant consequences.

Gbawe:
Simply not true. Ridiculous actually. This is not the 80ties. Nigerians who improve themselves, to the best extent, and possess sought-after skills, have virtually the same chances of excelling as anyone else in the UK today.

Tell OP the truth and don't indulge his mindset that America is Paradise for Nigerians while the UK is 'barren land'. There is no sector in the UK (health, IT, engineering, Accounting, Property development, teaching et al) that competitive and driven Nigerians, who have made the best of themselves, don't excel in.

The World, in general, is becoming tougher with opportunities becoming more limited. It is not enough to just leave Nigeria, heading for the UK, thinking your success is assured. of course if you are as good as others, or better, you will find that the UK is still one of the best Nations in the entire world as far as the concept of rewarding talent is concerned.

You may believe whatever you want to believe - but where are these opportunities?? Opportunities, where your name alone won't get you an interview.. Opportunities where the average graduate gets an £18,000p/a job, huh Why are minorities being schemed out of graduate jobs?? I guess you live in a different UK - but you won't understand because you didn't go to uni here - and probably don't have student loans to pay back.

I used to think Britain was a sane society populated with people who wore suits and worked in an office until i watched a movie title "kidulthood". O boy, the gangster life in that place is worse than the US oo. It seems to me that the british don't portray the negativities in their country.

Whether you want to compare Nigerians/Africans born in in UK with Nigerians/Africans born in America, the @Poster, is clear on what his questions, and the thread is really about. Rather than dancing around the irrelevant, and derailing the thread, why not stick to answering/discussing the main issue . . the questions posed.

First/Second/Third/Fourth/Fifth generation, whatever, they are still Nigerians/Africans born in UK, or Nigerians/Africans born in the USA. There is no need for the unnecessary lectures. The @Poster is simply comparing the lives/community of Nigerians/Africans (born, raised, mutated) in the UK with Nigerians/Africans(born, raised, mutated) in America.

Where are Nigerian Dads in the UK?? Why don't they care about their kids, like their counterparts in Nigeria do?? Why are our mums so whitewashed, that they believe the "English culture" is better than the "primitive" Nigerian culture??

If not for afro-beats, or probably nollywood, I doubt most Nigerians out here would care about Nigeria, to be honest.

afam4eva: I used to think Britain was a sane society populated with people who wore suits and worked in an office until i watched a movie title "kidulthood". O boy, the gangster life in that place is worse than the US oo. It seems to me that the british don't portray the negativities in their country.

Gangs in the UK are not worse than USA - don't even go there.. But, I agree the the government hides everything here, but America is worse (in terms of gangs).

99.9% of everyone born here is first generation

true that.

maybe 97% i guess.

shymmex:

Where do these third generation Nigerians born in the UK reside??

99.9% of everyone born here is first generation - the 2nd generation are not even old enough to be gang members..

What on earth are you talking about? My parents came to the UK in the sixties and gave birth to all their kids there, including me. My kids (third generation) were all born in the UK and all reside there currently. Ditto for my siblings including my elder sister whose kids are between age 16 and 21 i.e in the age bracket of young people capable of commiting serious crime !!!

Another example for you. My wife is of African origin. Her Grandmother came to the UK in the early 60ties and had her mother there. My wife ,and her siblings, were born and raised in the UK. They all went through the UK school system and live in the UK till today. They are third generation for the sake of categorisation. There are many like my wife, her siblings, and my kids. If you don't know where they live, that only shows you don't understand the migratory patterns over the past 5-6 decades that tells the full story.

Many of the original Nigerian immigrants to the UK returned to Nigeria after having their kids in the UK. Those kids automatically all had British passports. Many returned to Nigeria with their Parents. They then went back to the UK when things were especially bad for Nigeria under various deleterious military rulers. Unlike their parents, most of these second generation Africans are happy to have their kids in the UK and remain there with them. I personally have countless friends in this category.

tpia@:


true that.

maybe 90% i guess.

May be 95%, that's just may be - because I've meet a couple of Nigerians from Liverpool, who are 2nd generations.. Their dads were born here, and their grandparents have been in the UK since the 60s.... But London is a entirely different - most are first generation... The ones you could consider as 2nd generations are not necessarily 2nd generations - because most of their parents born here - were raised in Nigeria... So, they are basically Nigerians; they've got the Nigerian accent; and they do everything the Nigerian way...

tpia@:


true that.

maybe 97% i guess.

May be 95%, that's just may be - because I've meet a couple of Nigerians from Liverpool, who are 2nd generations.. Their dads were born here, and their grandparents have been in the UK since the 60s.... But London is a entirely different - most are first generation... The ones you could consider as 2nd generations are not necessarily 2nd generations - because most of their parents born here - were raised in Nigeria... So, they are basically Nigerians; they've got the Nigerian accent; and they do everything the Nigerian way...

shymmex:

May be 95%, that's just may be - because I've meet a couple of Nigerians from Liverpool, who are 2nd generations.. Their dads were born here, and their grandparents have been in the UK since the 60s.... But London is a entirely different - most are first generation... The ones you could consider as 2nd generations are not necessarily 2nd generations - because most of their parents born here - were raised in Nigeria... So, they are basically Nigerians; they've got the Nigerian accent; and they do everything the Nigerian way...

cant argue with this analysis.

Gbawe:

What on earth are you talking about? My parents came to the UK in the sixties and gave birth to all their kids there, including me. My kids (third generation) were all born in the UK and all reside there currently. Ditto for my siblings including my elder sister whose kids are between age 16 and 21 i.e in the age bracket of young people capable of commiting serious crime !!!

Another example for you. My wife is of African origin. Her Grandmother came to the UK in the early 60ties and had her mother there. My wife ,and her siblings, were born and raised in the UK. They all went through the UK school system and live in the UK till today. They are third generation for the sake of categorisation. There are many like my wife, her siblings, and my kids. If you don't know where they live, that only shows you don't understand the migratory patterns over the past 5-6 decades that tells the full story.

Many of the original Nigerian immigrants to the UK returned to Nigeria after having their kids in the UK. Those kids automatically all had British passports. Many returned to Nigeria with their Parents. They then went back to the UK when things were especially bad for Nigeria under various deleterious military rulers. Unlike their parents, most of these second generation Africans are happy to have their kids in the UK and remain there with them. I personally have countless friends in this category.

The question is where were you raised?? I doubt you don't have a Nigerian accent - and if you do, without your passport, you would still be considered as a foreigner.. That's a FACT!!!

People like yourself are in the minority, and that's a fact... Everyone I went to primary and school with - had parents who're freshies, and we're in the majority... May be you should go back and check the population of Nigerians in the UK, when you were born - and compare it to the population of Nigerians in the UK in the 90s...

Back then, most Nigerians come here for education, and return to Nigeria after that - but the tide changed in the 80s, when people started coming over to stay.. I

Gbawe:

What on earth are you talking about? My parents came to the UK in the sixties and gave birth to all their kids there, including me. My kids (third generation) were all born in the UK and all reside there currently. Ditto for my siblings including my elder sister whose kids are between age 16 and 21 i.e in the age bracket of young people capable of commiting serious crime !!!

Another example for you. My wife is of African origin. Her Grandmother came to the UK in the early 60ties and had her mother there. My wife ,and her siblings, were born and raised in the UK. They all went through the UK school system and live in the UK till today. They are third generation for the sake of categorisation. There are many like my wife, her siblings, and my kids. If you don't know where they live, that only shows you don't understand the migratory patterns over the past 5-6 decades that tells the full story.

Many of the original Nigerian immigrants to the UK returned to Nigeria after having their kids in the UK. Those kids automatically all had British passports. Many returned to Nigeria with their Parents. They then went back to the UK when things were especially bad for Nigeria under various deleterious military rulers. Unlike their parents, most of these second generation Africans are happy to have their kids in the UK and remain there with them. I personally have countless friends in this category.

if the parents returned to nigeria (after their studies), then they're essentially not immigrants.

for the purpose of the thread, which is discussing the high crime wave among british of nigerian descent, first generation immigrant here refers to persons of nigerian heritage who were either raised/born in nigeria or who were born and raised in the UK, of parents who are nigerian and qualify to hold a nigerian passport by reason of ancestry, birth and having lived there.

shymmex:

You may believe whatever you want to believe - but where are these opportunities?? Opportunities, where your name alone won't get you an interview.. Opportunities where the average graduate gets an £18,000p/a job, huh Why are minorities being schemed out of graduate jobs?? I guess you live in a different UK - but you won't understand because you didn't go to uni here - and probably don't have student loans to pay back.

Typical !!! Make wild and unimformed assumptions just to sway a debate your way. My guy, I went to Uni in the UK back when we had grants. Were you not the same chap saying Nigerians call you 'Jamo' even when you can speak Yoruba and Pidgin? All I denote, from your postings regarding the UK, is the ignorance that mean you simply don't know the variance and strata of the Nigerian community in the UK.

Britons of Nigerian origin have become very 'layered' and varied. The first thing you must do, if objective and keen to learn from others, is to refrain from thinking everyone is like you to the extent you make childish assumptions.

Nebeuwa: There seems to be a wave of criminality that is impacting British of Nigerian descent. Everyday, we here news of another young Nigerian either committing a crime, or being the victim of crime in the United Kingdom. What I want to know is what is the problem?

The same cannot be said of Nigerians who live in the United States. It is very rare that you hear about a Nigerian in the United States being involved in a gang. It is so rare, that I have never heard of such, even though I know it probably does exist. Are there any differences between the Nigerians in the United States and Nigerians in the United Kingdom?

I have my own hypothesis, in which Nigerians in American want to differentiate themselves from African Americans who are often seen at the lower levels of United State society, but Nigerians in the United Kingdom do not have that luxury to differentiate themselves from other black groups in the UK since they are all recent arrivals.

Another hypothesis that I have is that there are more opportunities for Nigerians born in the United States than Nigerians born in the United Kingdom. The U.S. is more of a merit based society, even though it is being eroded compared to the United Kingdom when it depends on not only your social class, but also your pedigree.

Are there any other reasons that you can think of?

How long have you live in the United States because, I'm sorry to say, your analyis on Americans of Nigerian descent does not make sense, really (and I dont say that to be disrespectful).

Gbawe:

@OP.

Some of your claims , with all due respect, are your own generalisations. First of all, it is children with origin from all African nations (Nigerian, Somalian, Ghanaian, Kenyan etc) engaging in crime today. The reason is very simple. Many of these kids are not Nigerian, Ghanaian, Ethiopian per se. They were born and raised in the UK and have grown up with UK gang culture where, in the worst part of London, you join a gang or don't walk the Street. Simple as that.

Gang culture is very pervasive in the UK to the extent some even join gangs in their estate simply to gain the protection that allows them walk a certain section of the estate or even play in a Park. Now, many kids who have gone through the UK School system since a young age simply feel obligated to join a gang for one thing or the other (protection, reputation, respect, getting girls, "getting paid", etc).

It is common these days to see a UK gang with members originating from Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Somalia etc. It is simplistic to think third generations of Nigerians , born and raised in the UK, with no connection to Nigeria, can somehow totally escape the pervasive gang/societal problem the UK is facing. Nigerian parents are not miracle workers who can raise outstanding children anywhere. Many try their best but, ultimately, societal challenges defeats them.

Thank you

tpia@:




if the parents returned to nigeria (after their studies), then they're essentially not immigrants.

for the purpose of the thread, which is discussing the high crime wave among british of nigerian descent, first generation immigrant here refers to persons of nigerian heritage who were either raised/born in nigeria or who were born and raised in the UK, of parents who are nigerian and qualify to hold a nigerian passport by reason of ancestry, birth and having lived there.

Look, it is well established what third generation Nigerians are. Let us not begin discrediting a legitimately accepted category migratory pattern has created.

See the link below. Focus on Box 1: Nigerian Migration history.


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1fy8ZK7K3ggC&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=UK+third+generation+nigerians&source=bl&ots=AvzP1Zoal7&sig=cNAgNvdxwV920kHWcPg7HiUmtZY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=O-eST6vBN5OV0QXvsLiCAg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=UK%20third%20generation%20nigerians&f=false

Gbawe:

Typical !!! Make wild and unimformed assumptions just to sway a debate your way. My guy, I went to Uni in the UK back when we had grants. Were you not the same chap saying Nigerians call you 'Jamo' even when you can speak Yoruba and Pidgin? All I denote, from your postings regarding the UK, is the ignorance that mean you simply don't know the variance and strata of the Nigerian community in the UK.

Britons of Nigerian origin have become very 'layered' and varied. The first thing you must do, if objective and keen to learn from others, is to refrain from thinking everyone is like you to the extent you make childish assumptions.

We're talking about the MAJORITY here, and those responsible for the crimes - the OP made this thread about.. I don't know where you live in the UK, but I live in an area, with the largest Nigerian community out here - and I have families all over London.. I can say I'm privy to information about young Nigerians out here - because I'm young, and I was raised here - and I can relate to most of these kids.

The difference between your assertions, and my post is that, I know about the gang culture (I grew up around it) - and I used to be a social worker.. I'm talking based on experience, and based on what I used to be part of.