There are many today who are teaching that Jesus was rich. Jesus and the disciples were rich, only rich people could take off for 3.5 years. (Fred Price, Ever Increasing Faith, recorded 11/23/90)

Frederick K.C. Price states: "The Bible says that He [Jesus] had a treasurer-a treasury (they called it "the bag"; that they had one man who was the treasurer, named Judas Iscariot; and the rascal was stealing out of the bag for three-and-a-half years and nobody knew that he was stealing. You know why? Because there was so much in it, He couldn't tell. Nobody could tell that anything was missing, , if Jesus didn't have anything, what do you need a treasury for? A treasury is for surplus. It's not for that which you're spending. It's only for surplus-to hold it until you need to spend it. Therefore, He must have had a whole lot that needed to be held in advance that He wasn't spending. So He must have had more than He was living on." ("Ever Increasing Faith" program on TBN [23 November 1990.)

Among those who teach Jesus and the apostles are rich are Oral Roberts, and Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Hagin. John Avanzini attacks and mocks theologians for teaching that Jesus was poor.

"I don't know where these goofy traditions creep in at, but one of the goofiest ones is that Jesus and His disciples were poor. Now there's no Bible to substantiate that." ( From the "Was Jesus poor? Video)

Was Jesus Rich? Lets look at the clear biblical evidence. Jesus was born in a stable

(his parents knew the approximate time of his birth so they could have reserved a place, God could have made sure he had a room)

but it was to be in a stable, a cave.

Lk.2:22-24[b] Mary sacrifices two turtle doves which is a poor households sacrifice[/b] (Lev.12:2-.Why did Mary in her praise say “He has filled the hungry with good things and the rich he has sent away empty.”

Jesus gave up all the riches that are his in heaven to become a man and was born to a poor family (not homeless and destitute), his stepfather was carpenter, if they had money from the gold given at his birth (as some claim) he would not of had to work. The Bible does not mention his riches but many teach this from silence.

Hmmm, this one na deep one  o o o

Backslider:


Frederick K.C. Price states: "The Bible says that He [Jesus] had a treasurer-a treasury (they called it "the bag"; that they had one man who was the treasurer, named Judas Iscariot; and the rascal was stealing out of the bag for three-and-a-half years and nobody knew that he was stealing. You know why? Because there was so much in it, He couldn't tell. Nobody could tell that anything was missing, ,

Another school of thought might come up with an analogy that though Judas was stealing, they did not beckon to him. They just overlooked it or probably just thought he must have been using th money for something othr than evil. The must have trusted one anothr so much that irreconciliable differences in the trasury must have been written off as other expenses. What about that?

Backslider:

if Jesus didn't have anything, what do you need a treasury for? A treasury is for surplus. It's not for that which you're spending. It's only for surplus-to hold it until you need to spend it. Therefore, He must have had a whole lot that needed to be held in advance that He wasn't spending. So He must have had more than He was living on." ("Ever Increasing Faith" program on TBN [23 November 1990.)

My thought could hav3 gone along the line that ither you have a lot or little, keep a treasury and a proper account. Jesus must have been emphasising accountability and nothing else. As kids, we do keep our 10 kobo coins in pots or 'kolo' n those days. The kolo can be referred to as treasuries.

Backslider:

Among those who teach Jesus and the apostles are rich are Oral Roberts, and Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Hagin. John Avanzini attacks and mocks theologians for teaching that Jesus was poor.

These fellas are mostly prosperity teachers. They definately would e searching for analagoies and insights into the scriptures that can corroborate their messages. We ned to be careful therefore and prayerfully search the scriptures.

Backslider:

"I don't know where these goofy traditions creep in at, but one of the goofiest ones is that Jesus and His disciples were poor. Now there's no Bible to substantiate that." ( From the "Was Jesus poor? Video)

Was Jesus Rich? Lets look at the clear biblical evidence. Jesus was born in a stable

(his parents knew the approximate time of his birth so they could have reserved a place, God could have made sure he had a room)

but it was to be in a stable, a cave.

Lk.2:22-24[b] Mary sacrifices two turtle doves which is a poor households sacrifice[/b] (Lev.12:2-.Why did Mary in her praise say “He has filled the hungry with good things and the rich he has sent away empty.”

Jesus gave up all the riches that are his in heaven to become a man and was born to a poor family (not homeless and destitute), his stepfather was carpenter, if they had money from the gold given at his birth (as some claim) he would not of had to work. The Bible does not mention his riches but many teach this from silence.

There may not be bible verses to clearly substantiate that posture of the wealth of Jesus really and that leaves room to controversies when trying to prove otherwise as in this case. For an advocate of the physically rich Jesus, i would ask them this question: "What is the meaning of the scripture which says "For our sakes He bcame poor so that we (His children) through His poverty can become rich?". I might likely ask, what was the major reason Jesus had to miraculously source funds to pay the government what was theirs when His team was accosted by government officials? Could He have simply instructed Judas or his deputy to give from the treasury?

These are just food for thought.

Just a few scriptures:
Luke 8:1-3
After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.
If they were rich, they didn't need to be supported by these women.

Matt.17:27
However, so that we do not offend them, go to the sea and throw in a hook, and take the first fish that comes up; and when you open its mouth, you will find a shekel. Take that and give it to them for you and Me
If He was so rich an ordinary shekel would not have been too hard to find.

However, those are all indirect references; this is a direct reference -
2Cor. 8:9
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.[color=#990000][/color]
I don't know how some preachers can argue their way around this last scripture, especially considering that the context was as regards giving and finances.
Cheers all

Thank you all on this topic. We see that the false doctrine is gaining power in the Church.

@Cgift
When looking at scripture you must never imagine something and then seek to corroborate it with scripture if you look at the bible very well you see that satan is a master in this act.

We must search the bible to know what mind of God is in prayer. Jesus was poor in his days. The donkey he rode on how much did he pay for it?

@topic,

I do not know how someone can look at the life of Jesus in the NT and conclude that He was poor! What is poverty and what is riches? Poverty is the lack of means to obtain that which your heart desires. Riches is the ability to be free from want.

Can anyone prove to me in the Bible where Jesus wanted something and He didn't get it? Where was He begging for food? Was He in rags? He had full supply of everything and anything He wanted. That my friend is being rich!

While it can be proven that Mary and Joseph were poor at the time Jesus was born and dedicated, their status changed about 2 years later after the visit by the Maggi. Do you know the value of the gold that the Maggi presented to Jesus has been estimated to be worth $400 million today?

With respect to the scripture that He became poor that we might become rich. I find it funny that people who claim Christians are meant to be poor will be so hypocritical to quote this scipture. The end product of Jesus being poor was for you to be rich. So if He you are not rich, it therefore means His sacrifice for you is in vain. But a proper studying of that scripture reveals that it was just a comparison of Jesus in Heaven to Jesus on earth. He is waited on in Heaven, walking on the streets of gold etc. He gave up all that when he came to earth. Both relationship can only be compared in the sense of poverty and riches. SELAH!

@Tayo

To be free from want ?

400 million dollars! yeipa!

How many tons of Gold is that ?


He became poor so that we could be rich is simple he was of low esteem. He was God and man together yet he never showed boastfulness or pride. He did miracles and said people should keep quiet not like the MOG we have today that we see then advertising Miracles.

He had a contrite spirit he was broken He was sorrowful. I have seen few men that have this spirit but one that come to mind was Mr Wesley. A man that sat with kings but he lived a simple life.

@Backslider,

All this roundabout moves you are making does not even address the issue here. What has a broken and contrite heart got to do with this topic? Are you saying that poverty is the panacea for pride, meekness and spirituality? Please make a distinct sound so we could deal with the issue and not keep adressing irrelevant issues that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Jesus gave up all the riches that are his in heaven to become a man and was born to a poor family (not homeless and destitute), his stepfather was carpenter, if they had money from the gold given at his birth (as some claim) he would not of had to work. The Bible does not mention his riches but many teach this from silence.

As Jesus grew up he worked in the trade of a carpenter, not a trade known for its wealth. How did Jesus become rich with a step-dad who was only a carpenter? There is absolutely no indication anywhere that he was wealthy from his family or from traveling with His disciples. By the way, He took no tithes.


In Luke 2:22-24, Jesus is taken to the Temple by his mother a poor families sacrifice is made -two pigeons (according to Leviticus 12:8.) If they had been rich as the prosperity teachers claim they would have had to make a larger sacrifice. If they did not and were rich they broke the law.


Matt. 11:7-8; Lk. 7:25 "As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: "What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind?" But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments?

Indeed those who are gorgeously appareled and live in luxury are in kings' courts." Neither John or Jesus dressed as those who show God's blessings today with thousand dollar suits and shoes. Why does Jesus' cousin John wear such bad clothing while Jesus is walking around in expensive clothing (a seamless garment), didn’t He share?

Like Avanzini will say "Jesus had a nice house, a big house big enough to have company stay the night with Him at the house. Let me show YOU His house. G0 over to John the first chapter and I’ll show you His house. Now, child of God, that’s a house big enough to have company stay the night in. There's His house." (Believers voice of Victory program, TBN Jan.20,1991)


I couldn't find it! How about you? Avanzini says "Jesus had a big house" but it was Peters mothers house in Capernaum that was often used as a base, it was not His.
Matt. 8:19-20: "Then a certain scribe came and said to Him, "Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go." And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." Jesus himself he had no place to lay his head, no permanent home, he constantly traveled.

He dressed like everyone else (simple), he even said to forsake this world to inherit his kingdom. His kingdom is not of this world and he made it perfectly clear in His teachings. Some seem to think that Moses may have gotten it all wrong to have forsaken the riches and pleasures of Egypt and suffer affliction with his brethren looking by faith to him who is invisible." (Heb.11:24-27).

He didn't have to, he could have had the best of both worlds. The rich young ruler came to Jesus and he responded by telling to him to give all his riches to the poor and follow him. Was Jesus telling him to rid himself of riches while he actually possessed them Himself? Would he ask someone to do something he himself would not?

@Backslider,

Jesus gave up all the riches that are his in heaven to become a man and was born to a poor family (not homeless and destitute), his stepfather was carpenter, if they had money from the gold given at his birth (as some claim) he would not of had to work. The Bible does not mention his riches but many teach this from silence.

So rich people don't work? I can't believe this is coming out of your mouth! Rich or not, hard work is a virtue that the scripture advocates. Laziness and idleness is frowned upon by scripture.

As Jesus grew up he worked in the trade of a carpenter, not a trade known for its wealth. How did Jesus become rich with a step-dad who was only a carpenter? There is absolutely no indication anywhere that he was wealthy from his family or from traveling with His disciples. By the way, He took no tithes.

While there may be no indication as to how much He was making, there is absolutely no proof that He lacked anything He wanted. And by the way, He lived in the OT and could not receive tithes. He was not born a Levite and wasn't a Priest of the O.T.

In Luke 2:22-24, Jesus is taken to the Temple by his mother a poor families sacrifice is made -two pigeons (according to Leviticus 12:8.) If they had been rich as the prosperity teachers claim they would have had to make a larger sacrifice. If they did not and were rich they broke the law.

This sacrifice was made when Jesus was just 42 days old. The Magi had not visited Jerusalem by then. The magi's visit happened when Jesus was about 2 years old. Your Ministers of poverty never told you that did they?

Matt. 11:7-8; Lk. 7:25 "As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: "What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind?" But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments?
Indeed those who are gorgeously appareled and live in luxury are in kings' courts." Neither John or Jesus dressed as those who show God's blessings today with thousand dollar suits and shoes. Why does Jesus' cousin John wear such bad clothing while Jesus is walking around in expensive clothing (a seamless garment), didn’t He share?

It was all a matter of choice. John dressed in animal skin while Jesus was dressed in fine linen woven from top to bottom. John was a huge contrast to Jesus in almost everything, you can chexk out one of the contrast Jesus made in Matthew 16:18-19. And by the way, are you the one responsible for your cousin's upkeep?

Like Avanzini will say "Jesus had a nice house, a big house big enough to have company stay the night with Him at the house. Let me show YOU His house. G0 over to John the first chapter and I’ll show you His house. Now, child of God, that’s a house big enough to have company stay the night in. There's His house." (Believers voice of Victory program, TBN Jan.20,1991)
I couldn't find it! How about you? Avanzini says "Jesus had a big house" but it was Peters mothers house in Capernaum that was often used as a base, it was not His.
Matt. 8:19-20: "Then a certain scribe came and said to Him, "Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go." And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." Jesus himself he had no place to lay his head, no permanent home, he constantly traveled.

In your zeal to glorify poverty, you are unable to reason logically. How can jesus have invited those 2 desciples to stay in the house of Peter's mother when He had not even met Peter in John 1? One of the 2 who went to stay in His house was Andrew, Peter's brother who later introduced Peter to Jesus. Jesus teaching that He had no place to lay His head isn't to be interpreted as if He had to sleep in a homeless shelter every night. Rather, Jesus was teaching them that He is not attached to anything. Jesus never begged anybody for anything throughout His earthly life. His needs, including shelter were readily met - now that's rich.

He dressed like everyone else (simple), he even said to forsake this world to inherit his kingdom. His kingdom is not of this world and he made it perfectly clear in His teachings. Some seem to think that Moses may have gotten it all wrong to have forsaken the riches and pleasures of Egypt and suffer affliction with his brethren looking by faith to him who is invisible." (Heb.11:24-27).

Abraham never forsook his riches, Job, Isaac, Joseph, Jacob etc never forsook their riches. So why are you teaching for principle that which is not? Moses never got it wrong? He followed His vision and was in obedience to God. Jesus' clothings were so valuable that the Soldiers wanted it. Do you think they would have wanted the worn-out abiliments of a poverty stricken man? I think not.

He didn't have to, he could have had the best of both worlds. The rich young ruler came to Jesus and he responded by telling to him to give all his riches to the poor and follow him. Was Jesus telling him to rid himself of riches while he actually possessed them Himself? Would he ask someone to do something he himself would not?

You alwasy mis-read scripture. Jesus' only revealed what was in the rich man's heart - greed and covetousness. Do yuo know what would have happened if the guy had gotten over that covetousness and gave up all his possessions? He would have received a hundredfold in this lifetime and still inherit eternal life - mark 10;30, Matthew 19:29. So you see, riches is not synonymous with sin.

Now Christains are embracing poverty! Serious

Riches should b secondary in christianity and not at the forefront. Lets live the issues of whether Christ was poor or rich and focus on what the scriptures teach about our welfare for today's christians. So what do we have.

Backslider, I will like to ask you, is it not too good for a christian (say a Deeper Life member) to be a multimillionaire today doing legit business?

Jesus was rich and is still rich.

He was rich in a humble way cos he never lacked anything, the humble part was for him to live all his heavenly comfort to come and die for worthless people like us so as to redeem us.
Have you forgotten his triumphant entry into Jerusalem? he never rented the donkey and its colt, he took it which shows his superiority he even said if anyone asks the disciples who sent them they should reply that "the Master needs it"
Get it right backslider or what do you call yourself before you backslide into your mother's cooking pot.

There is no gainsaying.

We all know He was rich in heaven but he was porr on earth! Haba! Why would a physically or materially rich being look for a fish before being able to pay taxes? He was not 'rich'. To be rich is not to be comfortable. Riches transcends just being comfortable unless we are deceiving ourselves.

He was not materialistic so he could not have being rich.

Backslider, answer my deeper life question?

@cgift,

We all know He was rich in heaven but he was porr on earth! Haba! Why would a physically or materially rich being look for a fish before being able to pay taxes?

You have no idea what you are saying. This is the epitmone of riches. Being able to meet your needs legitimately, while pleasing God. He didn't go aborrowing to meet His needs, neither did He have to beg any body to provide the money. He met His needs, which is more than we can say of many Christians today. And by the way, I was listening to a Kenneth Copeland tape a while back in which he said he hardly goes to the Stores to buy supplies for himself any more. Instead of paying for a pair of socks which he needed, he'd rather get the socks and sow it into someone else's life and put his faith in God to have someone give him a pair of socks. That way, he exercises his faith pleasing God while also meeting someone else's needs. And he gets his needs met all the time too. Now this is more than just rich. It's super rich.

He was not 'rich'. To be rich is not to be comfortable. Riches transcends just being comfortable unless we are deceiving ourselves.

He was rich in every way. Physical, emotional, materially and spiritually. To be rich means you can meet ALL your needs without having to borrow or steal. Jesus did neither and yet His needs never went unmet. That is true riches.

He was not materialistic so he could not have being rich.

Materialism is not synonymous with riches. Infact, a poor person can be materialistic. Materialism is tied to greed.
The greatest example of a rich Christian who is worth emulating that I know in the world today is Peter Daniels. I rememeber in one of His debates on TV with unbels and agnostics who couldn't figure out why he should be rich when he is a professing Christian. Someone asked him if its true that he has only one pair of dress shoes, and he answered yes because according to him, he only has one pair of feet. So how come you drive a Rolls Royce another asked, well I only have one of those too he retorted. This is a very very rich Christian who isn't materialistic. He is so rich that his Corporations are the only ones in the world with their own private currency, and they have no mortgage, no overdraft and owe no man anything but love. Their money is gold based on not the worthless paper we all carry around today. His goal in life is to see how much money a man from a poor background can give to the kingdom of God in his lifetime, and he is right now putting together a group of Christians who he will train to learn how to make money so they can give out 20 billion dollars to the kingdom of God in the next 20 years. He is a 40% tither and according to him, sometimes they give 40% and sometimes they go above it. So you see, being rich does not equate materialism.

Backslider, answer my deeper life question?

Perhaps you should ask him too if Pastor Kumuyi is poor.

Thank you Mr Tayo-D

I dont honestly know how to help you. You have very little knowledge of scripture and it will take time for me to show you. I will do what I can here.

Tayo-D:

@Backslider,
So rich people don't work? I can't believe this is coming out of your mouth! Rich or not, hard work is a virtue that the scripture advocates. Laziness and idleness is frowned upon by scripture.
While there may be no indication as to how much He was making, there is absolutely no proof that He lacked anything He wanted. And by the way, He lived in the OT and could not receive tithes. He was not born a Levite and wasn't a Priest of the O.T.

That is not what I said read the post. Yes hard work is a Virtue. Let him that does not work not eat. How muchwas he making preaching? You have no idea that Jesus was the High Priest? Well dont you know that he was of the tribe of Judah and that The scepter and the staff of priesthood was given to Jesus?
The Levitical commission is given unto Judah but notice it says the Scepter shall not depart from Judah.

Jesus was and is a Priest. "For we have an high priest, "

Tayo-D:

This sacrifice was made when Jesus was just 42 days old. The Magi had not visited Jerusalem by then. The magi's visit happened when Jesus was about 2 years old. Your Ministers of poverty never told you that did they?

Just read your bible and you shall be saved from error even when I quote scripture you cant read it?

Luke 2:22-24 (King James Version)
22And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

23(As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord

24And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

Tayo-D:

It was all a matter of choice. John dressed in animal skin while Jesus was dressed in fine linen woven from top to bottom. John was a huge contrast to Jesus in almost everything, you can chexk out one of the contrast Jesus made in Matthew 16:18-19. And by the way, are you the one responsible for your cousin's upkeep?

may be you don't know what you are saying go and get a bible dictionary it will help you.

Tayo-D:

In your zeal to glorify poverty, you are unable to reason logically. How can jesus have invited those 2 desciples to stay in the house of Peter's mother when He had not even met Peter in John 1? One of the 2 who went to stay in His house was Andrew, Peter's brother who later introduced Peter to Jesus. Jesus teaching that He had no place to lay His head isn't to be interpreted as if He had to sleep in a homeless shelter every night. Rather, Jesus was teaching them that He is not attached to anything. Jesus never begged anybody for anything throughout His earthly life. His needs, including shelter were readily met - now that's rich.

Thank you I cant reason Logically because the bible is clear on this one. This shows you are lazy to read your bible to study yourself.

Tayo-D:

Abraham never forsook his riches, Job, Isaac, Joseph, Jacob etc never forsook their riches. So why are you teaching for principle that which is not? Moses never got it wrong? He followed His vision and was in obedience to God. Jesus' clothings were so valuable that the Soldiers wanted it. Do you think they would have wanted the worn-out abiliments of a poverty stricken man? I think not.

The soldiers wanted his blood stained cloth? Hmmmmm you mean Abraham never forsook his God

Tayo-D:

You alwasy mis-read scripture. Jesus' only revealed what was in the rich man's heart - greed and covetousness. Do yuo know what would have happened if the guy had gotten over that covetousness and gave up all his possessions? He would have received a hundredfold in this lifetime and still inherit eternal life - mark 10;30, Matthew 19:29. So you see, riches is not synonymous with sin.

Hmmm the doctrine of the sow and reap.
ever heard of the doctrine of the FAILED HARVEST?
A man sows and he does not get nothing at all?


@Cgift

The doctrine of piety is not a deeperlife doctrine. I know a man that made wealth but died poor. he moved the power of God all over the world. You would have heard his name but you will not know it was him.

cgift:

Backslider, I will like to ask you, is it not too good for a christian (say a Deeper Life member) to be a multimillionaire today doing legit business?

Maybe I should answer this

It is more than good my brother for Christians, be it Deeper Life or NOT to be financially buoyant. Riches is commendable for Christians and why should I be poor when my Father is Rich in all good things?. It is good to be a multimillionaire doing legitimate businesses, we've got lots and lots of them in the Church, but you would hardly know because they do not show it out. They still maintain their simplicity in nature. At least, those that i know of.

_{I do wonder what gives people that impression that Deeper Life members are usually poor}

@Backslider,

I don't honestly know how to help you. You have very little knowledge of scripture and it will take time for me to show you. I will do what I can here.

Thanks for the 'compliment'. I do not claim to know the scripture, but one thing I can say is this: no man can force down a doctrine down my throat that i find no basis for in scripture. The "righteousness is synonymous" with poverty is just one of those doctrines.

That is not what I said read the post. Yes hard work is a Virtue. Let him that does not work not eat. How  much was he making preaching? You have no idea that Jesus was the High Priest? Well don't you know that he was of the tribe of Judah and that The scepter and the staff of priesthood was given to Jesus?
The Levitical commission is given unto Judah but notice it says the Scepter shall not depart from Judah. Jesus was and is a Priest. "For we have an high priest, "

You are the one that said Jesus wouldn't be working as a Carpenter if He was rich. Now you have changed the goal post to when He became an itenerant minister. You seem really confused. You just keep muddling up everything in an attempt to make the scripture say what it does not. Your statement about Jesus being the High Priest only shows how muddled up you are in your thinking. Jesus only became our High Priest after His resurrection. He live under the OT, and the only person qualified to be the High Priest then has to be  Levite, specifically from the House of Aaron.

Just read your bible and you shall be saved from error even when I quote scripture you can't read it?
Luke 2:22-24 (King James Version)
22And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
23(As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord
24And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

Perhaps you need to take your own advice. I never denied that Mary's sacrifice was the birds because they were poor. What I said is that this sacrifice was done when Jesus was 42 days old and the magis did not present the gold to Jesus until He was about 2 years old. Let me give you an asignment. Please find out how I came about those numbers. Your thinking may be straightened if you will just read the Bible in its entirety.

may be you don't know what you are saying go and get a bible dictionary it will help you.

I assume you only ssay this because you find my statements true and can't refute it from scripture. At least this approach is better than the ones you made earlier where you try to force-fit your meanings into the Bible.

Thank you I can't reason Logically because the bible is clear on this one. This shows you are lazy to read your bible to study yourself.

Again you are dancing around in circles. My question is very simple. Was it the house of Peter's mother that jesus invited Andrew and the other disciple into in John chapter 1. Please provide the evidence.

The soldiers wanted his blood stained cloth? Hmmmmm you mean Abraham never forsook his God

So you didn't know that they parted His clothes and cast lots for His intricately woven overcoat? Abraham never forsook His God nor His wealth either. God and gold are not mutually exclusive else He won't pave heaven with gold nor declare that the silver and gold are His and not the devil's!

I forgot to add this: Backslider isn't a Deeper Life Member any longer?   maybe that was why I had to answer for him .

@Olowotee
well said.

@ olowotee

Thanks for answering for me.

Backslider:

@ olowotee

Thanks for answering for me.

In that case, if Backslider has confirmed that we can be multimillionaires doing legit businesses ans still be christians, I think that puts paid to the issue Forget about whether Jesus was rich or poor jare.

cgift and ricadelide! You people should leave my brother alone jo!   . just kidding lol. . .


@Backslider
But why did you leave? How is your Christian faith now and do you mind to disclose where you are now? Pardon my curiosity. I once read some of your mails wherein you said so many things about your spiritual state, blah blah blah. . ,  . .?? . Maybe you can holla my YM ID olowoyeye_t@yahoo.com.

All the best anyway.

Jesus was very rich. He did not need an investment to keep Him in supply because He knew that with just a word he cld get anything He desired ps91

OlowoTee:

cgift and ricadelide! You people should leave my brother alone jo! . just kidding lol. . .


@Backslider
But why did you leave? How is your Christian faith now and do you mind to disclose where you are now? Pardon my curiosity. I once read some of your mails wherein you said so many things about your spiritual state, blah blah blah. . , . .?? . Maybe you can holla my YM ID olowoyeye_t@yahoo.com.

All the best anyway.

Waiting for the day he will change His screename to Frontslider

janami:

Jesus was very rich. He did not need an investment to keep Him in supply because He knew that with just a word he cld get anything He desired ps91

I agree with you 1000%

@Tayo D

The parents of Jesus were poor but devote followers of the Lord.

I never said He wont work.

yes Jesus was 40 days old when the sacrifice was done not 42. if it were a girl it would be 80 days. Are you trying to say that the gift made them rich.

I did not say I did not know. Soldiers go to war and they take spoils they dont gamble with cloth for will take it. The cloth of Jesus was very Irrelevant to the commander of the guards.

@olowotee

Pls I beg I will call myself whatever I like. And my spiritual state is not what matters. Deeper life is not heaven. I respect deeper lifers very much. yes i know very Holy brethren in deeperlife. I know brothers that will never show their wealth. they spend their money for God without asking God back for anything.

I know that there demon possessed people in Deeper life. If i was in Nigeria I would probably attend Deeper life.

@Cgift

Every word spoken has it root meaning. The name Kumuyi may mean something to other people while it may mean something else to others.

I may call myself Ogundurotimi mean The god of Iron has stayed with me. The true God of iron is who? the most High God.

But because you want disconnect your name from fetish and occult covenants you may change the name.

In 2 Cor.8:9 Paul states of Jesus " being rich , yet for your sakes he became poor, so that through his poverty you might become rich" (this is spiritual riches). In the only place where it might give a hint of wealth it says he became poor. Did Jesus become poor during his lifetime so we can become rich financially later? This is not a trick question and should be obvious to all familiar with the scriptures. This "being rich" is speaking of his preexistence in his position of glory?

He became poor in becoming a servant in position and also in his social life. Zech. 9:9 " Behold, your King is coming to you; he is just and having salvation, lowly and riding on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey." Even his fulfilling prophecy as a king was in humility of his position. He came as a servant, not a king, but today we have those who want to have crowns recognized for their positions now. Quite the opposite in the Scripture, he who is exalted will be humbled. We are to follow Jesus' pattern, yet some actually think if Jesus came today he’d have the best clothes, drive a Roll’s royce and eat steak every night. We better look carefully at the Bible before we choke on what is being dished out.

He was buried in another mans tomb, a rich mans. If he was rich or his family, they would have buried him in his own family tomb. But this again proves that He had no money for this. Neither did his family nor the apostles have the money to by such a burial, it was borrowed, actually donated to be exact.

After all it would not be permanent. Jesus in his ministry had borrowed many things. A manger, He borrowed boats, He borrowed a[b] colt[/b]; He borrowed a house for Passover and He was buried in a borrowed tomb. Christ came in complete humility as stated in 2 Cor. 8:9 “Christ, that though He was rich, (owning everything) yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.” (Meaning spiritually rich.)

However it does not mean that we should glorify Lack. But the point is that people use the example that Jesus was rich so we would seek wealth to the detriment of a contrite heart. Some people dont know that people in deeper life and some other church have wealth (what generates income) but are silent. If God told them to sell it they will sell it at the instance. This are holy men.

Jesus was not physically wealthy . . . that is in finances on earth. I've heard prosperity preachers teach so with verses taken out of context.

It's sooo wrong.

Can we be wealthy as Christians? Of course, but remember to remain true Christians after you become multimillionaires

The bible has a lot of warnings against the dangers of the love for wealth. We should always put ourselves in check just like we do it concerning other sins.

Peace

@Backslider!

ah ah? Are you offended, bros?? I am not against whatever name you chose for yourself, I'm sure you've got reasons for every action. I was only concern, maybe feel concerned to ask about your next level! and I quite agree with you that Deeper Life Church isn't Heaven! veeeery verrrrry correct, I am not a Church crusader. . . .No, Not at all.  I believe in Christ and preach Him

I am sorry if my post infuriated you. 

And my spiritual state is not what matters.  

. . . . .   It matters alot, much more my brother. If not, then why are we Christians?

Best Regard!

@Olowotee

I am not the least moved or infuriated at all. I am humbled by your care to retract. I would rather say I am sorry if i over stretched the issue. The matter is WAS JESUS RICH?

I am not in anyway bothered when I am attacked on this thread. You can read my post. If I have attacked anyone on this site personally please forgive me.

@topic,
I decided to be silent for a while in this topic.
However, please bear with my long write-up, brevity oftentimes leaves room for misinterpretation.

What does it mean to be ‘rich’?
I think the first problem with this kind of debate is the usual equivocation on the word: “rich”. For the sake of argument, it is good to define one’s terms: what exactly are we referring to when we say “was Jesus rich?” Obviously, if we are talking about being rich in character, there isn’t a debate there. If it were about being rich spiritually, I doubt if anyone would argue about that. However if we are referring to material wealth, then we need to define what material wealth connotes. There are two meanings that have been used on this thread – “Jesus did not have any needs that weren’t met, therefore he was rich”. Thus, riches is hereby defined as ‘having all your needs met’. If that was the definition of riches, then we can say right ahead: Jesus WAS rich – because in the long term, he always had all his needs met. I said in the long term, because there was at least one recorded instance where he did not have his immediate needs met . . . and the culprit faced the consequences (see fig tree encounter).

However, is that really the definition of being rich? Is that the definition that some of these preachers are using? Are some of these preachers actually saying that “because Jesus had his needs met then he was rich”? Elijah had all his needs met, albeit in some supernatural ways; was he rich? Do people we call ‘rich’ now have ALL their needs met?

Although, that might be a good renewed Christian mind’s definition of being “rich” that is not the standard definition for discussion purposes. A Christian can see himself as being rich; even if he doesn’t have any money in his bank account. He has the greatest procession of all: Christ in him. That is granted. However, a non-Christian will not share that very same definition, not to talk about one who does not even belief in the supernatural. So let’s define our terms and let’s know what we are talking about so we don’t argue for no reason.

The excluded middle or false dichotomy?
Now, this fallacy of the excluded middle is when people reduce scenarios to two possibilities, when clearly there are other alternatives. If one says Jesus was not rich – does that then necessarily connote that Jesus was poor? Coming to the context of our present society – how many people are considered rich and how many poor? Is it a thin line that separates being rich from being poor – the line of meeting needs – such that once all your needs can be met then you stop being poor? The reality is that, in most cases, poverty and riches are usually the two ends of a binomial with the majority of people lying in the middle; and some closer to one end than the other. The exception to this might be in the case of developed countries, in which, relative to poorer nations, the graph seems to be skewed to one end. And this then brings the point of “relativity” when it comes to defining riches and poverty. Is it the same standard that is used to consider one as being poor in the west that is used in developing countries? Easily, a middle-class person in the US would gravitate into a high class in Nigeria; because, relatively speaking, the societal context for defining wealth and riches is higher in one context than the other – thus bringing to the fore the issue of wealth being societal in context. Likewise, time plays a role. The average lower middle class person of our day would clearly be in a higher class in the past. What is the underlying point here – with greater income comes greater “needs”. With my being in the US and the things I “have”, by Nigerian standards I would be considered rich, but by American standards, I can’t be said to be rich because there are other things a “rich man” here should have that I don’t have. Now, do I WANT those things? No.

What does that then mean: if I choose to be modest in my desires, if I do not want to have many material things, and the few things I want I do have, can I then be said to be “rich” – if the definition for being rich was 'having my needs met'? In other words, if I decide to curb my appetites, does that then upgrade my social status to the level of ‘riches’? Can we call austere people “rich”?

Putting “riches” in context
Clearly, throughout the scriptures, we can see the bible make mention of men who served God and yet were rich. The patriarchs were rich, Job was rich, the kings were rich and so on. However, in each of those instances their being rich can be defined in context. In Job’s context, we could see his wealth displayed in the things he processed. The bible even clearly itemized them. I don't think i need to go into details. Even up to the New Testament we can see this form of definition of being materially rich. Now, if we were to define being rich as:

       • Processing great material wealth OR
       • Having great material processions

Can we then still say, by those standards, Jesus was rich?
If we were to define riches in that context, the question still stands: Was Jesus rich?
I’ll leave the issue at that level for now.

@Olowo

OlowoTee:

cgift and ricadelide! You people should leave my brother alone jo!   . just kidding lol. . .

So bro Backslider is your 'brother' - i didn't know o ! (j/k)

Actually, while I probably have been on the other side of the debate most times with bros, and even now I'm not in agreement with his perceived motives for asking this question (purportedly being that "christians are NOT supposed to be materially wealthy" - i'm not sure if that's his viewpoint, i could be wrong) i actually DO agree with him here that Jesus was not "rich" - rich being in the context i defined in my earlier post.

Just to set things straight. Cheers .