Different perspectives to these two has may be been part of constituents to many fresh grad's problems (especially nigerian graduates).

A situation whereby when one is through with his/her first degree, the next necessary thing is to go get a job in order to increase one's experience in his or her field. After getting the necessary experience,then you can further your studies.

The other is depicted this way: 'Now, i have a degree(first), since the resources are available, am going for further studies, i dont need related experience to break into the job market because when am through with my studies( maybe to a MBA level), i will break in easily'.

These two stated above has been generating a lot of debates, where different opinions are put forward by different individuals. Please, elaborate on these because it has been a concern to many 'soon to be graduates' and graduates.

Work experience is very vital. In fact, I think Nigerians are not getting enough of it.
Most Nigerians don't work while they are in school, on vacation, in their teens, etc. In a way that has affected the country negatively. We've now turned out to be a society of lazy people, both in mind and body.

Most people just prefer to hide behind many certificates, and prospect for the big oil jobs. Unfotunately that dream is gradually coming to an end.

So, get some work experience, and you can go back to school later. Or find a way to do both simultaneously.

nitrogen: Different perspectives to these two has may be been part of constituents to many fresh grad's problems (especially nigerian graduates).

A situation whereby when one is through with his/her first degree, the next necessary thing is to go get a job in order to increase one's experience in his or her field. After getting the necessary experience,then you can further your studies.

The other is depicted this way: 'Now, i have a degree(first), since the resources are available, am going for further studies, i dont need related experience to break into the job market because when am through with my studies( maybe to a MBA level), i will break in easily'.

These two stated above has been generating a lot of debates, where different opinions are put forward by different individuals. Please, elaborate on these because it has been a concern to many 'soon to be graduates' and graduates.

Hahahaha, which people possess that kind of thought? Well, the people could be almost completely correct if they went to the very top schools in this world or if they studied up to PhD and later took up academic positions or research positions at development organizations such as the UN, ILO, etc.

However, in my view, someone with a related work experience plus a graduate degree, or preferably a top MBA, will always dominate a person who studied and studied at average schools and sadly possesses no work experience. I am still looking for someone with a relevant work experience, plus a good graduate degree, who hasn't gotten a job.

If you sit down and look at the reality of nowadays, you will see that it is mainly unemployment that is forcing many Nigerians to pursue graduate studies abroad. Do you think many 3rd class guys who know they can get top jobs in Nigeria will neglect those jobs for further studies in naija or abroad? Think again.

My former naija lecturers used to boast that they that went abroad to study in their days did so because they wanted to develop world class research capabilities and not because they wanted to get the best jobs. In fact, one of my former naija professors, Harvard trained, said that the people who went to work for all these big companies in the past were mostly those who didn't cut it in high level knowledge and academic research. But today, what do we see? Today, the direct converse is exactly the case. We see the very best guys pursuing oil companies, telecoms and bank jobs. The very best graduates of the school I graduated from are not even near being a staff of any academic institution, not to now talk of lecturing.

Although there are no guarantees anywhere, on the whole and in this present day and time, work experience before further studies is preferable. However, I wouldn't leave a well paying job for an average school abroad. That can't just happen. Unfortunately we see this happen all the time. I remember a bros who was given a assistant manager job at Shell but declined the offer and instead decided to pursue further studies at one of the average/below average UK schools. I don't need to say how he currently feels about his actions, but what I would like to restate is that there are no guarantees anywhere.

Before we take any actions, we should also picture the future in mind and then try to take actions today so that we can minimize the regret that may crop up in the future. This is essentially what is done in behavioral finance and it is something we all need to imbibe in our daily lives.

Lastly, if anyone must neglect a job offer for further studies, he/she must try to arrange a future alternative just in case a job fails to come after graduation. Unless those close to me have the potential to do deep research, I will never advise them to neglect a job for further studies.

Have the people you spoke about ever thought what they would do if they didn't get a job after further studies? Maybe they should come to London, for example, and see the jobs that many naijans, who are holders of UK MSc degrees, are doing one/two/three years after getting the degrees.

A word, they say, is enough for the very vise.

Good luck to those who want to take the risk. After all, some people took it and succeeded.

T22.

nitrogen: Different perspectives to these two has may be been part of constituents to many fresh grad's problems (especially nigerian graduates).

A situation whereby when one is through with his/her first degree, the next necessary thing is to go get a job in order to increase one's experience in his or her field. After getting the necessary experience,then you can further your studies.

The other is depicted this way: 'Now, i have a degree(first), since the resources are available, am going for further studies, i dont need related experience to break into the job market because when am through with my studies( maybe to a MBA level), i will break in easily'.

These two stated above has been generating a lot of debates, where different opinions are put forward by different individuals. Please, elaborate on these because it has been a concern to many 'soon to be graduates' and graduates.

Unfortunately, i don't think that is the case. It is a case of the work experience syndrome. Many people continue with studies because they do not have the chance to exercise what they are trained to do. I don't think anybody will reject a good job to continue studying. The problem with Nigeria is even more with many bad work environment where they don't give you the requisite experience rather just use you as a messenger tool of some sort. Salaries are very difficult to come by in the west so if they employ you they are actually guiding you through how you can be on your own after some time.

I think this is the reason Nigerians in particular have one of the highest acquisition of degrees in the world because they have to prove their ability over and over again to be given a chance at work. At least in Europe, most employers don't emphasize masters degree that much because their people are trained on the job anyway and that is why you see most workers with just a B.Sc and the competition is not that fierce like you see in the U.S.

AjanleKoko: Work experience is very vital. In fact, I think Nigerians are not getting enough of it.
Most Nigerians don't work while they are in school, on vacation, in their teens, etc. In a way that has affected the country negatively. We've now turned out to be a society of lazy people, both in mind and body.

Most people just prefer to hide behind many certificates, and prospect for the big oil jobs. Unfotunately that dream is gradually coming to an end.

So, get some work experience, and you can go back to school later. Or find a way to do both simultaneously.

I would like to add that you are being very nice by saying the highlighted. The sad truth of the matter is that, it is not just gradually coming to an end, it has nearly come to an end. In the early 1990/2000, many foreign trained naijans never wrote job tests or competed on the same scale with local graduates. They were just nicely interviewed and hired afterwards. But today, what do we see? We see a situation in which hundreds write tests and foreign trained are indistinguishable from local graduates unless they open their mouths or they show off their degrees. To buttress this point, I recall a guy who was invited straight for an interview at Schlumberger in naija while his very mates (trained in naija) with the same zero work experience were busy writing tests upon tests before they could even get to the interview stage. This happened in early 2000, but I guess it is not common again unless the person knows the company owner.

The only slight contradiction to the above submission are those people who studied at the very top schools or those who studied at schools where all these Fortune 500 companies actively recruit from.

Further studies are good, but they no more guarantee anything. As quant economists, we have consistently shown that saturation leads to undesirability which in turn leads to a drop in value.

I would like someone to start a thread which will ask foreign trained Nigerians(who went to regular schools abroad and came back home with zero work experience)how their job hunt process has been like over the years. Maybe that will make things much, much clearer and we all can learn in the process.

T22.

yemmy_ma:

Unfortunately, i don't think that is the case. It is a case of the work experience syndrome. Many people continue with studies because they do not have the chance to exercise what they are trained to do. I don't think anybody will reject a good job to continue studying. The problem with Nigeria is even more with many bad work environment where they don't give you the requisite experience rather just use you as a messenger tool of some sort. Salaries are very difficult to come by in the west so if they employ you they are actually guiding you through how you can be on your own after some time.

I think this is the reason Nigerians in particular have one of the highest acquisition of degrees in the world because they have to prove their ability over and over again to be given a chance at work. At least in Europe, most employers don't emphasize masters degree that much because their people are trained on the job anyway and that is why you see most workers with just a B.Sc and the competition is not that fierce like you see in the U.S.

Even for foreigners?

Well, the more reason many people troop to the U.S. is simple. English is the language and they are more welcoming for foreign grads into their work place. But the same can not be said in Europe. The first barrier is the language and there is this element of discrimination and ego that drives some European countries from taking grad students into their working environment. Language because that is the working language in most organizations. Ego because they have stereotyped citizens from developing nations as not equally able to add to what is already on ground like their own people. But of course some countries i know can be an exception, for instance i hold the Netherlands and Germany in high regard when it comes to integrating foreign grads. In fact Germany is even making it more easier these days especially for students in Engineering and maths related field. If you then learn the language then you are ready for numerous options.

@ all, i had a chat some weeks ago with with a friend that was a set ahead of me in the university, after all the 'long time, no see' stuff, the remaining part of the conversation went this way:
Nitrogen: how service nw, hope u dey enjoy that place?
Friend: nitro, forget, i don ja o( am nt serving again)
Nitro: why? Cos of the insecurity saga in that place or what?
Friend: no, am out of the country doing my masters.
Nitro: what?? You left nysc for masters?
Friend: dnt dull yourself o,,,,,,,

After the conversation, then i got myself into a slight pondering, 'how on earth could a fellow in his late 20s abandone nysc program because he got a chance to further his studies abroad'. But later, i generalized it that everybody has got his or her own way and the level of risk that can be taken by individuals differ.


But seriously, do you share in this wonderful evolving theory?? That even the only programme (nysc) that helps give experience (although sparingly) is neglected by recent graduates in the name of getting a scholarship in an average university abroad for further studies, to me, i think it is crazy.

^^
I wouldn't say it is crazy. It might work for some people.

nitrogen: @ all, i had a chat some weeks ago with with a friend that was a set ahead of me in the university, after all the 'long time, no see' stuff, the remaining part of the conversation went this way:
Nitrogen: how service nw, hope u dey enjoy that place?
Friend: nitro, forget, i don ja o( am nt serving again)
Nitro: why? Cos of the insecurity saga in that place or what?
Friend: no, am out of the country doing my masters.
Nitro: what?? You left nysc for masters?
Friend: dnt dull yourself o,,,,,,,

After the conversation, then i got myself into a slight pondering, 'how on earth could a fellow in his late 20s abandone nysc program because he got a chance to further his studies abroad'. But later, i generalized it that everybody has got his or her own way and the level of risk that can be taken by individuals differ.


But seriously, do you share in this wonderful evolving theory?? That even the only programme (nysc) that helps give experience (although sparingly) is neglected by recent graduates in the name of getting a scholarship in an average university abroad for further studies, to me, i think it is crazy.

^^^^ Please try posting a complete information next time.

There is nothing wrong in accepting a fully funded scholarship to study at any university abroad. For someone to have gotten a full scholarship, and not that he/she is spending hard earned pounds on his/her education, it shows that the person will survive well after his studies, no matter how difficult the economy turns out to be. Such a person is very competitive and will always have a back-up plan.

Not everyone gets scholarships. Onyibos don't give scholarships to students that have no intellectual game. Many of my PhD naija guys across Europe and North America all neglected NYSC because they got full scholarships even from MSc level. Scholarships get competitive every year and the earlier is always the better.

T22.

nitrogen: @ all, i had a chat some weeks ago with with a friend that was a set ahead of me in the university, after all the 'long time, no see' stuff, the remaining part of the conversation went this way:
Nitrogen: how service nw, hope u dey enjoy that place?
Friend: nitro, forget, i don ja o( am nt serving again)
Nitro: why? Cos of the insecurity saga in that place or what?
Friend: no, am out of the country doing my masters.
Nitro: what?? You left nysc for masters?
Friend: dnt dull yourself o,,,,,,,

After the conversation, then i got myself into a slight pondering, 'how on earth could a fellow in his late 20s abandone nysc program because he got a chance to further his studies abroad'. But later, i generalized it that everybody has got his or her own way and the level of risk that can be taken by individuals differ.


But seriously, do you share in this wonderful evolving theory?? That even the only programme (nysc) that helps give experience (although sparingly) is neglected by recent graduates in the name of getting a scholarship in an average university abroad for further studies, to me, i think it is crazy.

Unfortunately again i am of the opinion that nothing is crazy. See you might not know, that friend of yours might have a destiny of never coming to Nigeria to work anymore for the rest of his life. I met a man in Europe who said he was a Prof in Nigeria and moved out about 35 years ago to work as a practicing surgeon. You see what i mean, till today that man still advises people not to go back to Nigeria. He further said he is happy with his life abroad.

Come to think of it, no one is guaranteed a job in Naija and not everyone will get into a multinational in Nigeria. There are only a few exceptional students in Nigeria that can always conquer the highly competitive tests conducted by multinationals in Nigeria and rewarded employment on a fair basis. These set of students are not easy to come by and everyone won't be like them. So for your friend, abroad is an alternative but i am sure he will get is NYSC certificate (the Naija way) anyway since he started it already.

yemmy_ma:

Unfortunately again i am of the opinion that nothing is crazy. See you might not know, that friend of yours might have a destiny of never coming to Nigeria to work anymore for the rest of his life. I met a man in Europe who said he is a Prof in Nigeria and moved out about 35 years ago to work as a practicing surgeon. You see what i mean, till today that man still advises people not to go back to Nigeria. He further said he is happy with his life abroad.

Come to think of it, no one is guaranteed a job in Naija and not everyone will get into a multinational in Nigeria. There are only a few exceptional students in Nigeria that can always conquer the highly competitive tests conducted by multinationals in Nigeria and rewarded employment on a fair basis. These set of students are not easy to come by and everyone won't be like them. So for your friend, abroad is an alternative but i am sure he will get is NYSC certificate (the Naija way) anyway since he started it already.

Of course, NYSC can be easily gotten. That is no biggy. What is NYSC compared to free education anywhere in Europe or North America? In my view, the dude took the right steps.

See me contradicting myself because of information asymmetry. Funny.


T22.

tanimola22:

Of course, NYSC can be easily gotten. That is no biggy. What is NYSC compared to free education anywhere in Europe or North America? In my view, the dude took the right steps.

See me contradicting myself because of information asymmetry. Funny.


T22.

No, NYSC can't be gotten easily. Lots of returnee colleagues have been fired by MNCs in Nigeria, as a result of 'dud' NYSC certificates.
However, returnees can serve whenever they come back. I believe they even have a choice of location. So, if you got an offer to work in Nigeria, you can do your NYSC while working. I have this senior colleague who just completed NYSC, as a C-level in an MNC. He's been in the Diaspora for 2 decades plus.

Sadly, the era stated herein is coming to an end. Unfortunately, the curricula taught in most Nigerian universities does not equip graduates to cope with the challenges in the real world. In the West, it is tradition for students to take one year off study to embark on some form of internship program. More so, students also engage in summer jobs and all of these add to the CV. Also, schools in the West assign you to career tutor who will help define your intended career path. I recall siting on an interview panel and a candidate with upper second class with summer work experience was favored instead of one with a first and no summer work experience.

Also, our graduates need to develop soft skills on their own. I don't mean to sound brash but some of our graduates don't have a clue what they want to do career wise and this very disheartening. Studying abroad no doubt has a lot of advantages but I am of the opinion that these will not be fully harnessed if it isn't done to form a strategic alignment in the long term.

In the words of my one of my friends "You can't be a lion in the city if you are not one in the village". God bless Nigeria.

AjanleKoko:

No, NYSC can't be gotten easily. Lots of returnee colleagues have been fired by MNCs in Nigeria, as a result of 'dud' NYSC certificates.
However, returnees can serve whenever they come back. I believe they even have a choice of location. So, if you got an offer to work in Nigeria, you can do your NYSC while working. I have this senior colleague who just completed NYSC, as a C-level in an MNC. He's been in the Diaspora for 2 decades plus.

^^^^^^
NYSC as compared to getting a scholarship abroad. This is the domain in which the statement was made.

T22

tanimola22:

^^^^^^
NYSC as compared to getting a scholarship abroad. This is the domain in which the statement was made.

T22

Oh okay, I get you.
He can always defer the NYSC, and go for the scholarship.
But if/when he comes back, he will have to do the NYSC. Which should not be an issue at all.

AjanleKoko:

No, NYSC can't be gotten easily. Lots of returnee colleagues have been fired by MNCs in Nigeria, as a result of 'dud' NYSC certificates.
However, returnees can serve whenever they come back. I believe they even have a choice of location. So, if you got an offer to work in Nigeria, you can do your NYSC while working. I have this senior colleague who just completed NYSC, as a C-level in an MNC. He's been in the Diaspora for 2 decades plus.

i thought if one should be above 30 years, one is not eligible for the nysc program.

@AJ, Denee,yem,t22,
Thanks for those eye opening posts. God help in all your endeavours. Sincerely,these have been stuffs bothering me and i thing am getting it now.

nitrogen:
i thought if one should be above 30 years, one is not eligible for the nysc program.

@AJ, Denee,yem,t22,
Thanks for those eye opening posts. God help in all your endeavours. Sincerely,these have been stuffs bothering me and i thing am getting it now.

if you're above 30 before graduation, if you graduate 30 years ago at the age of 29 dem go ask you for enrol #

Read the post at work, I didn't know it was NYSC work experience you were talking about all along I mean LMAOOOOOO of all things

Dis Guy:

if you're above 30 before graduation, if you graduate 30 years ago at the age of 29 dem go ask you for enrol #

Read the post at work, I didn't know it was NYSC work experience you were talking about all along I mean LMAOOOOOO of all things

The work experience i am talking about is the real one and not about nysc experience, that(nysc) is shit. The case of the conversation with my friend stated was just cited, but main thing is this; which is better? Get some work experience before furthering your studies or further your study straight after first degree.
Btw, have got the drift about the nysc stuff. Thanks

@T22, am sorry for the assymetric nature of the information, actually, the main of this thread is: which is better of the two, work experience(3-5 yrs) first before further studies or further studies immediately after first degree. I just used my second post on this thread to buttress the first. Basically, am talking about real work experience and not that crappy nysc experience.

Btw, you guys have already thrashed it out and it has been insightful.
Anyway, more contributions are welcome.

What I don't understand is how people with OND are not required to do NYSC but those with BSc and HND must do it.

Yet the former and the latters are allowed to work. So is the OND prevented from rising in work in any way?

How does the government reconcile restricting working rights of BSc/HND but yet the OND is allowed to work anytime and get to the same position as the NYSCers?

Sagamite: What I don't understand is how people with OND are not required to do NYSC but those with BSc and HND must do it.

Yet the former and the latters are allowed to work. So is the OND prevented from rising in work in any way?

How does the government reconcile restricting working rights of BSc/HND but yet the OND is allowed to work anytime and get to the same position as the NYSCers?

NYSC is meant for graduates who have completed at least 4 years of tertiary education, and hold a Bachelors or HND certificate, or an approved equivalency. OND in Nigeria is more like an associate degree. You can't use an OND, in theory, to get a job that requires a minimum of bachelors degree or HND.

Sagamite: What I don't understand is how people with OND are not required to do NYSC but those with BSc and HND must do it.

Yet the former and the latters are allowed to work. So is the OND prevented from rising in work in any way?

How does the government reconcile restricting working rights of BSc/HND but yet the OND is allowed to work anytime and get to the same position as the NYSCers?

Aj is right with in response. OND can also take up a job that requires minimum B.Sc if the person has the required experience to do the job. So many people without a degree rise up to managerial roles in the past when the craze for B.Sc and M.Sc is not this much. Some things you just learn on the job and bone school.

Sagamite: What I don't understand is how people with OND are not required to do NYSC but those with BSc and HND must do it.

Yet the former and the latters are allowed to work. So is the OND prevented from rising in work in any way?

How does the government reconcile restricting working rights of BSc/HND but yet the OND is allowed to work anytime and get to the same position as the NYSCers?

Basically, the need to cap the number of graduates the Nysc scheme can absorb, its the major determinant on why they don't accept Ond grads. To the other question, three decades back, it would have been possible for Ond grads to rise in the work place with just an Ond degree. Let me use my Uncle as an example, he got into Agip with just an Ond degree and rose to become a G.M without any other accompanying degrees throughout. The only Courses he did, were some I. T related courses at IDM in Ikeja. But in present day Nigeria, the chances of that happening is practically non-existent.

But that is exactly my point. The OND has no limitation to his career line [on paper] but yet is not required to do NYSC, while a BSc/HND is restricted from starting a career in the first place except he does the NYSC.

I guess it is an advantage to the OND on one hand to be free of the padlock, but a disadvantage on the other hand because it appears the Government is stating only BSc/HND can add value to the nations voluntary service.

^^
Let's look at both public and private sector.

For public sector, government structure permits progression based on certificate. An OND graduate may enter government service at level 06, while NYSC graduates enter service on Level 08. NYSC graduate can get to Level 18 or 19 (permanent secretary), while OND or similar grad usually cannot get beyond Level 13. That's the government service rule.

For private sector, there is no graduate position in Nigeria that doesn't require NYSC. Which automatically rules out OND and similar certificates from graduate employment. Some MNCs and other large organizations employ a large contingent of support staff, but that has changed over time, with outsourcing services. Companies don't hire office assistants, cleaners, drivers, clerks, etc, anymore. So, for that uncle story, even though it happened years back when there wasn't so much competition from fresh graduates, it ain't gonna happen in 2012.

In summary, NYSC's catchment is validated in my view.

AjanleKoko: ^^
Let's look at both public and private sector.

For public sector, government structure permits progression based on certificate. An OND graduate may enter government service at level 06, while NYSC graduates enter service on Level 08. NYSC graduate can get to Level 18 or 19 (permanent secretary), while OND or similar grad usually cannot get beyond Level 13. That's the government service rule.

For private sector, there is no graduate position in Nigeria that doesn't require NYSC. Which automatically rules out OND and similar certificates from graduate employment. Some MNCs and other large organizations employ a large contingent of support staff, but that has changed over time, with outsourcing services. Companies don't hire office assistants, cleaners, drivers, clerks, etc, anymore. So, for that uncle story, even though it happened years back when there wasn't so much competition from fresh graduates, it ain't gonna happen in 2012.

In summary, NYSC's catchment is validated in my view.

Is it at law or just companies requirement?

yemmy_ma:

Is it at law or just companies requirement?

That's the law.
So long as your certificate is eligible for national service, every employer must request it.

this is why a lot of people are poor, how can you abandon work experience for further studies when people abandone university for creative jobs. Entrepreneurial mindset is all that's needed to be a billionaire. It dont matter how many certificates you have, if you aint making the money, you are so bleeped up and a common grads with immense liquidity will put food on your table

If you want to have your career life in Uk, after Bachelors go for work experience in your chosen career.
If you want to have your career life in USA, after Bachelors go for further studies.
If you want to live in Nigeria, try any work and if none is forthcoming, go hide in school.

There's no 2 ways about it. So long as Nigeria is concern, ur work experience count most.
With ur Msc, MBA, DR or PROF, u'll be moved 4 so lng tyn in Nig.
Hwever, wit just ur Bsc & gud work experience, u ar GOOD 2 GO. Ur ability 2 add more qualificatn, u don BLOW!