The wave of supposed spirituality in Nigeria is very much and sometimes it makes one wonder if there really isn't some elements of 'it' really happening? Is it possible to explain every some of spiritual manipulation i.e magic, Juju, gypsys and et al.........Although real live juju evidence may not be readily available but does this mean there is none at all? Sometimes, when you really study spiritual claims you wonder why they don't use it to better their lives or is it just limitations?

mkmyers45: The wave of supposed spirituality in Nigeria is very much and sometimes it makes one wonder if there really isn't some elements of 'it' really happening? Is it possible to explain every some of spiritual manipulation i.e magic, Juju, gypsys and et al.........Although real live juju evidence may not be readily available but does this mean there is none at all? Sometimes, when you really study spiritual claims you wonder why they don't use it to better their lives or is it just limitations?

There is no spirituality. It is the belief of people who havent seen reality for what it is.

There is no such thing like juju because the juju people themselves would be rich and not living in shacks waiting to hear other people's problems.

Have people ever wondered why all countries with a heavy amount of atheists are doing better than Nigeria? Tell me how spiritual that is!

logicboy:


There is no spirituality. It is the belief of people who havent seen reality for what it is.

There is no such thing like juju because the juju people themselves would be rich and not living in shacks waiting to hear other people's problems.

Have people ever wondered why all countries with a heavy amount of atheists are doing better than Nigeria? Tell me how spiritual that is!

Are you trying to say in all confidence that black magic, extreme physic ability and what-have-not do not exist? Looking structurally at the african concept are you saying its not proof-able or it dosent exist?

mkmyers45:

Are you trying to say in all confidence that black magic, extreme physic ability and what-have-not do not exist? Looking structurally at the african concept are you saying its not proof-able or it dosent exist?

Can any juju or voodoo man can survive a nuclear bomb?

logicboy:


Can any juju or voodoo man can survive a nuclear bomb?

In the first post i stated the possibilities of a limitation but the main issue here is total negation...

mkmyers45:

In the first post i stated the possibilities of a limitation but the main issue here is total negation...

The nuclear bomb negates any spirituality that the Voodoo man has.

logicboy:


The nuclear bomb negates any spirituality that the Voodoo man has.

No, it dosen't...Does pestilence and discrimination negate some form of beliefs or ethics e.g Atheism?

mkmyers45: The wave of supposed spirituality in Nigeria is very much and sometimes it makes one wonder if there really isn't some elements of 'it' really happening? Is it possible to explain every some of spiritual manipulation i.e magic, Juju, gypsys and et al.........Although real live juju evidence may not be readily available but does this mean there is none at all? Sometimes, when you really study spiritual claims you wonder why they don't use it to better their lives or is it just limitations?

A better question is what the "spiritual" is supposed to be anyway. As far as I can tell spirit/spirituality, is some vague/nebulous non-concept used to explain that which we do not understand. It is a by word or cop out. Instead of people saying "I do not understand "X" and will make no effort to try", they just harp about it being spiritual. It is a non answer presented as an answer. Let us be honest here. How many people claiming spiritual events have actually made an effort to rigorously examine the phenomenon from a scientific/engineering angle or seek aid from those who can?

mkmyers45:

No, it dosen't...Does pestilence and discrimination negate some form of beliefs or ethics e.g Atheism?

Look, atheists dont go around making claims that they can not support. Does their voodoo stand strong against the power of science or fact? Can they survive a gunshot to the heart?

Idehn:

A better question is what the "spiritual" is supposed to be anyway. As far as I can tell spirit/spirituality, is some vague/nebulous non-concept used to explain that which we do not understand. It is a by word or cop out. Instead of people saying "I do not understand "X" and will make no effort to try", they just harp about it being spiritual. It is a non answer presented as an answer. Let us be honest here. How many people claiming spiritual events have actually made an effort to rigorously examine the phenomenon from a scientific/engineering angle or seek aid from those who can?

Then what do you have to say about this: www.nairaland.com/937483/evidence-juju

logicboy:


Look, atheists dont go around making claims that they can not support. Does their voodoo stand strong against the power of science or fact? Can they survive a gunshot to the heart?

You are talking about limits not necessarily the possibility of non-existence..

mkmyers45:

You are talking about limits not necessarily the possibility of non-existence..

True. True.


Can you prove that I am not a spirit texting you from the nether realm?

logicboy:


True. True.


Can you prove that I am not a spirit texting you from the nether realm?

Logicboy do you totally reject spirituality?

mkmyers45: Logicboy do you totally reject spirituality?

Yes. People fear what they do not understand.


The wizard's first rule;

"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."


This is taken from a novel called sword of truth in which a wizard is reluctant to use magic and the Wizard is explaining to his grandson why. The example of the rule is shown;

A group of villagers came armed with weapons to the Wizards house to kill him because of his witchcraft. The Wizard calmly walks out and tells them that if anyone of them should try anything with him, something will happen to their private parts. One person in the crowd holds his private parts and runs out of fear. The other villagers now became scared and left.

The wizard tells his surprised grandson that he did not use magic at all, only thier fear to drive them away.

logicboy:

Yes. People fear what they do not understand.


The wizard's first rule;

"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."


This is taken from a novel called sword of truth in which a wizard is reluctant to use magic and the Wizard is explaining to his grandson why. The example of the rule is shown;

A group of villagers came armed with weapons to the Wizards house to kill him because of his witchcraft. The Wizard calmly walks out and tells them that if anyone of them should try anything with him, something will happen to their private parts. One person in the crowd holds his private parts and runs out of fear. The other villagers now became scared and left.

The wizard tells his surprised grandson that he did not use magic at all, only thier fear to drive them away.

But he could use magic right? stop going around in circles

mkmyers45: But he could use magic right? stop going around in circles

Yes, the wizard could use magic because that is a work of fiction.


However, the logic in the novel applies. In the same setting in real life, someone without powers can play the same trick. That is the point.


Why are you so afraid of juju?

logicboy:

Yes, the wizard could use magic because that is a work of fiction.


However, the logic in the novel applies. In the same setting in real life, someone without powers can play the same trick. That is the point.


Why are you so afraid of juju?

I am a skeptic...its not like im shaking in my boots but superior evidence may truly support dark art...

mkmyers45:

I am a skeptic...its not like im shaking in my boots but superior evidence may truly support dark art...

Well, why didnt the nazis find this dark art? They were looking for ways to harness it

logicboy:



Well, why didnt the nazis find this dark art? They were looking for ways to harness it

How did you know they didn't? Look, From all what you have been saying you are trying to use limits to define spirituality and i do agree it can be limited but that dosent mean it dosent exist

mkmyers45:

Then what do you have to say about this: www.nairaland.com/937483/evidence-juju

What exactly does a man's penis getting stuck in a woman's vagina have to do with spirituality? Is that all that spirituality amounts to?

On another note, there is a medical condition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginismus which better explains what happened to the couple especially if they were surprised. Of course I doubt anyone involved will be seeing a doctor anytime soon unfortunately.

Idehn:

What exactly does a man's penis getting stuck in a woman's vagina have to do with spirituality? Is that all that spirituality amounts to?

On another note, there is a medical condition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginismus which better explains what happened to the couple especially if they were surprised. Of course I doubt anyone involved will be seeing a doctor anytime soon unfortunately.

Spirituality is a term we cant exhaust..we are just trying to asertain if it exists or not

Juju(or every spirituality, tho depends on your definition of spirituality) does not exist. This people play on you weakness to think something exotic/intimidating must be potent/real. The aye ta charm people keep screaming all the time(from nollywood to streets) is completely fake. They give you a fake demonstration with the local gun with no bullets. If you find your self in a shoot out and it 'worked' the bullets MISSED you. Unfortunately, if you sense this, you pass it off as the potency of the charm. Cognitive bias.
As for the herbs, some contain exactly what a doctor will prescribe for you. I was shocked when I learnt this. So much for local herbs. The trick is done by keeping the 'special' leaf secret. So you will think, the leaf came from another dimension or some shit like that.
It gets really bad that even foreign religions(as practiced here) propagates such nonsense. Everything that happens to you is deliberately caused by some unseen force. WTF??!
If a person is bullying,manipulating me secretly, I will know that someone tangible is to be dealt with. Not by praying to some nonexistent entity to send down fire or some disease on the person.
Spirituality does not exist.

So the concept of spirituality where did it come from?? At what point in human existence did man become concious of spirituality?? Wether juju or whatever higher power.. because i know d animals we evovled from do not have issues with spirituality.

Avicenna: Juju(or every spirituality, tho depends on your definition of spirituality) does not exist. This people play on you weakness to think something exotic/intimidating must be potent/real. The aye ta charm people keep screaming all the time(from nollywood to streets) is completely fake. They give you a fake demonstration with the local gun with no bullets. If you find your self in a shoot out and it 'worked' the bullets MISSED you. Unfortunately, if you sense this, you pass it off as the potency of the charm. Cognitive bias.
As for the herbs, some contain exactly what a doctor will prescribe for you. I was shocked when I learnt this. So much for local herbs. The trick is done by keeping the 'special' leaf secret. So you will think, the leaf came from another dimension or some shit like that.
It gets really bad that even foreign religions(as practiced here) propagates such nonsense. Everything that happens to you is deliberately caused by some unseen force. WTF??!
If a person is bullying,manipulating me secretly, I will know that someone tangible is to be dealt with. Not by praying to some nonexistent entity to send down fire or some disease on the person.
Spirituality does not exist.

And you are convinced there is no evidence of real juju experiences that can held as proof?

tgirl1986: So the concept of spirituality where did it come from?? At what point in human existence did man become concious of spirituality?? Wether juju or whatever higher power.. because i know d animals we evovled from do not have issues with spirituality.

Maybe when humans noticed that they were obviously surrounded by these spirit realms or when they sought to seek a realm to attribute stuff they couldnt explain to..... YOUR TAKE

mkmyers45: Spirituality is a term we cant exhaust..we are just trying to asertain if it exists or not

How exactly do you plan on doing that, if you cannot even tell us what spirituality is? In other words, how can you search for something, if you have no idea what you are searching for?

Spirituality is nothing but superstition cloaked in nobility. Add in some convoluted rules and decrees about piety and you have religion.

Anyway, you can't negate something that doesn't exist and can't even be proven to be potent. juju, black arts, black magic, tarot cards etc are all bunkum cut from the same cloth.

Martian: Spirituality is nothing but superstition cloaked in nobility. Add in some convoluted rules and decrees about piety and you have religion.

Anyway, you can't negate something that doesn't exist and can't even be proven to be potent. juju, black arts, black magic, tarot cards etc are all bunkum cut from the same cloth.

Like you are very sure there is no spiritual realm?

Idehn:
How exactly do you plan on doing that, if you cannot even tell us what spirituality is? In other words, how can you search for something, if you have no idea what you are searching for?

The aim of the OP is try to ascertain if supposed 'Spirituality' can be viewed in plain and correct concept that makes it valid....

mkmyers45:

Maybe when humans noticed that they were obviously surrounded by these spirit realms or when they sought to seek a realm to attribute stuff they couldnt explain to..... YOUR TAKE

i'm actually asking the atheists..i want to hear their theory.

mkmyers45:

And you are convinced there is no evidence of real juju experiences that can held as proof?

Yes until proven otherwise. I will remain a skeptic. But please do not think I v never encountered spirituality before, I have, they do not work.
I can paralyse you( with my medical knowledge) and claim you are under spiritual attack. Once I 'cure' you, you are my slave for life. That's the experience people hold as proof. If not for our lack of equipment in hospitals to carry out adequate testing for all types of conditions and diseases,these superstitions would have disappeared long ago.

tgirl1986: So the concept of spirituality where did it come from?? At what point in human existence did man become concious of spirituality?? Wether juju or whatever higher power.. because i know d animals we evovled from do not have issues with spirituality.

I once watched a documentary about homo sapiens and neanderthals battle for survival. They actually made sure to show the root of spirituality(they may be wrong afterall they were not present), a very plausible explanation.
You see, when man is helpless in a situation and somehow he escape that situation, whatever exotic on him at that time becomes a God(my understanding of the doc). Even in the middle of battle,the guy was asking a wooden object the right path to escape to. Needless to say, he died while protecting his wife AND the wooden object.
Everyone gets a feeling of other worlds, the seeming purposelessness of this life is a major cause of 'spirituality'. Life is so short and meaningless that man assume it must be a phase. That a higher power must have created them ......... And you have religion and spirituality to explain things/phenomena unknown. A con artist hears about this- magic is invented.