"I (God) will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (moses), and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

Deuteronomy 18:18


There are many verses in the Old Testament that predict the coming of Jesus (pbuh). This one, however, is not one of them. This can be clearly seen from the following four points:


a) Like unto moses

Muslims believe in all of the previous prophets. They make no distinction between them, nor do they place one above the others in piety. However, they are all human, and as humans they differ from one another in their characteristics. Let us compare these characteristics:

1) Both Christians and Muslims agree that both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) had fathers and mothers. They both also believe that Jesus (pbuh) had only a mother and no father. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

2) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) married and begat children. Jesus (pbuh) never married nor had any offspring. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

3) Moses (pbuh) was accepted by the Jews and to this day, as a nation, they accept him as their prophet. Muhammad (pbuh) was accepted by his people, and as a nation, over one billion Muslims around the world accept him as the prophet of Allah. Jesus (pbuh), however, was rejected by his people (the Jews) as stated in the Christian's own Bible: "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not" (John 1:11) Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

4) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) were kings on Earth in the sense that they had the ultimate power of government, the power to inflict capital punishment. When the Jews brought before Moses (pbuh) the Israelite who had been caught collecting firewood on the Sabbath, Moses had him stoned to death (Numbers 15:36). Muhammad (pbuh) had similar authority. When a woman came before him confessing (with no witnesses) to having committed adultery, he gave her a chance to consider the severity of her claim and the punishment she would receive. When she insisted, he ordered her stoned to death and ordered his companions to respect her for her sincere repentance. Jesus (pbuh), however, explicitly refuted the claim that he had a kingdom on earth. When he was dragged before the Roman Governor Pontious Pilate with a charge of sedition he said: (John 18:36) "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." Jesus (pbuh) would not resort to lying to save his skin. Thus, he had no earthly kingdom. Further, in John 8:1-7 we read the story of the woman who was taken in adultery by the Jews and brought before Jesus (pbuh). They were hoping to trap him by either having him contradict the laws of Moses (pbuh) by not stoning her, or by placing him in a bad position with the Roman empire by taking the law into his own hands and ordering her stoned. Jesus cleverly extracted himself from this predicament by commanding them: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." So the woman was set free. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

5) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) came with a new and comprehensive set of laws for their people. The law brought by prophet Moses was named the Judaic Law, and the law brought by prophet Muhammad was named the Shari'ah. Jesus (pbuh) however, as witnessed by Matthew, claimed to have not introduced any new laws, but to have come to renew the law of Moses (pbuh) and to have neither added nor subtracted from it. In Matthew 5:17-18 we read: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

6) Moses lead his people in a secret mass exodus from their hometown to Median in an attempt to flee the persecution of their enemies. Muhammad (pbut) too emigrated with his followers from their home town to Madinah in secret in order to flee the torture of their enemies. Jesus, however, never led his followers in a any sort of mass exodus from their hometowns . Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

7) Moses was victorious over his enemies both morally as well as physically. Pharaoh was defeated by Moses and all of his army were drowned in the sea. Muhammad (pbuh) too met his enemies in battle and defeated them all. This too was a moral as well as a physical victory. Jesus (pbuh) on the other hand is claimed in the Bible to have been crucified by his enemies. Thus, his victory was only a moral one. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh), is claimed by the Christians to have died violently on the cross. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

9) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) lie buried in the ground. Jesus (pbuh), however, is claimed by the Christians to abide in heaven. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

10) Most Christians claim that Jesus (pbuh) is God. No Christian or Muslim, however, claims that Moses or Muhammad (pbut) was God. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

11) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbuh) began their prophetic missions at the age of forty. The Bible tells us that Jesus (pbuh) began at thirty. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

12) Christians claim that Jesus (pbuh) was resurrected after his death. Neither Muslims nor Christians claim that Moses or Muhammad was resurrected. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

There are many additional points that could be mentioned but we will suffice with these for now.


b) Cannot be a Jew

Well, is Muhammad (pbuh) the only prophet who is "Like unto Moses"? For example, what about Jesus (pbuh)? Well, we should then notice that Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew,


"Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou (Jesus), being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria?"

John 4:9

and the Bible specifically denies that this awaited prophet will be a Jew. We are told that in Deuteronomy:


"And there arose NOT a prophet since in Israel LIKE unto Moses."

Deuteronomy 34:10


This awaited prophet, however, must be "LIKE unto thee (Moses)." So he will come from OUTSIDE of Israel.


c) Is from the BRETHREN of the Jews

If this prophet can not be a Jew, then what is left? In this verse, God speaks to Moses (pbuh) about the Jews as a racial entity. The awaited prophet is claimed to not be "from the Jews" or "from among themselves" but rather "from among their (the Jew's) brethren." Who are the brethren of the Jewish nation? The Jews are the sons Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham. Isaac's older brother was Ishmael, the father of the Arabs. Thus, the brethren of the Jewish nation is the nation of the Arabs. This statement is further reinforced by the following definition of "Brethren" in the Hebrew Dictionary of the Bible:


"personification of a group of tribes who were regarded as near kinsmen of the Israelites."

Muhammad in the Bible, Jamal Badawi, p. 16


Please compare this expression with that of the Qur'an:


"Indeed Allah has conferred a great favor upon the believers (Muslims) when He sent among them a messenger from among themselves, reciting unto them His verses, purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom; although before that they were in manifest error."

The noble Qur'an, Aal-Umran(3):164


There has come unto you (O Muslims) a messenger from among yourselves (Muhammad, pbuh). It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty, full of concern for you, for the believers [he is] full of pity, kind and merciful.

The noble Qur'an, Al-Tawba(9):128



d) Put my words in his mouth

If we were to read the Qur'an we would find that it contains many verses stating "I am your Lord, so worship Me" (Al-Anbia: 92, Al-Muminoon: 52), "Verily, I am Allah" (Taha: 14, Al-Namil: 9, Al-Qasas: 30), "I am thy Lord" (Taha: 19). These verses are not preceded by "I heard God say, ," or "And God said, ," or similar statements which would be the words of a man transmitting the words of God, rather, their form is that of the first person who speaks of himself. Neither Muhammad (pbuh) nor any Muslim ever claimed that Muhammad (pbuh) was God, therefore, Muhammad (pbuh) was speaking with his mouth the words of God. Similarly, we can find in the Qur'an more than four hundred verses of the form "Say (O Muhammad) : , " In other words God Almighty is putting His words into Muhammad's (pbuh) mouth and commanding him to speak them.


We also find in the Qur'an verses which command Muhammad (pbuh) to perform a certain action, such as the opening verses of Al-Muzzamil(73), or which even go so far as to reproach Muhammad (pbuh), such as the chapter of Al-Tahreem(66) or the chapter of Abasa(80).


Christians claim that the Bible has many "authors," and that while the "inspiration" is from God, still, the words are those of mortal men.


Dr. W Graham Scroggie of the Moody Bible institute, Chicago, says on page 17 of his book "It is human, yet divine":


", Yes, the Bible is human, although some out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men and bear in their style the characteristics of men, "


Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, says on page 277 of his book, "The call of the minaret":


", Not so the New testament, There is condensation and editing; there is choice reproduction and witness. The Gospels have come through the mind of the church behind the authors. They represent experience and history, "


(Both quotes have been obtained from the books of Ahmed Deedat)


The Qur'an, however, is the book of God in both word and meaning. An example of this is a teacher who sends two students to teach what they have learned from him. The first is told to "teach them what I taught you." While the second is given a textbook written by this teacher and told to read verbatim from this book and say nothing of his own accord. The first will convey the thoughts of the teacher. The second will convey both his thoughts and his words.


Sir William Muir says:

"There is probably in the world no other book which has remained twelve centuries (at the time of this quote) with so pure a text"

Life of Muhammad from original sources, Sir William Muir, Edinburough, J. Grant, p. xxii-xxiii


This matter becomes clearer when studying for example the personal greetings and salutations of Paul and his friends at the ends of Titus (3:15), 2 Timothy (4:19), 1 Thessalonians (5:26) , etc. These words are not the word of God but the personal greetings of Paul and his friends. There are many such examples to be found in the Bible. The Qur'an contains no such verses from Muhammad (pbuh). The words of Muhammad (pbuh) are collected in a completely separate reference from the Qur'an called "The Sunnah" (or the "Hadeeth". We notice from all this that even the Church itself does not claim that the Bible is the actual word of God, but His "inspiration" (his teachings) through the words of men. The Qur'an, however, is the actual word of God.


"And (remember) when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House (the Ka'aba in Makkah), [praying]: Our Lord! Accept from us [this service]. Verily! You, [only You,] are the Hearer, the Knower. Our Lord! And make us submissive unto You and of our offspring a nation submissive unto You, and show us our ways of worship, and relent toward us. Verily! You, [only You,] are the Relenting, the Merciful. Our Lord! And send among them a messenger from among them who shall recite unto them Your verses, and shall instruct them in the Book and in wisdom and shall purify them. Verily! You, [only You,] are the Mighty, the Wise. And who desires other than the path of Abraham except he who befools himself? Truly, We chose him in this world, and Verily! In the Hereafter he shall be among the righteous. When his Lord said unto him: Surrender! (literally: 'Be a Muslim!') he said: I have surrendered (Literally: 'I have become a Muslim') to the Lord of creation."

The noble Qur'an, Al-Baqarah(2):127-131



e) Grave Warnings for all who do not follow him:

So what shall we say to those who say: "Jesus has redeemed us. We have no need to follow any future prophets."? After the above verse of Deuteronomy, God himself threatens severe retribution against all those who do not follow this awaited prophet. In Deuteronomy we read:


"And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him." (in some translations: "I will be the Revenger"

Deuteronomy 18:19



Well, do Muslims read the word of God (The Qur'an) in His name? The answer is: Yes. Muhammad (pbuh) never in his lifetime claimed that the Qur'an was his words, but the words of God it is only the West which claims that it is his words. Further, when a Muslim reads a verse or chapter of the Qur'an, you will find that they have been taught to always start their recitation with the words: "In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful." The Qur'an contains 114 Chapters. If we were to follow them on down we would find that the first chapter, second chapter, third chapter, and so on all begin with the words "In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful." (there is one exception). So not only Muhammad (pbuh), but all Muslims in general recite the words of God in His name. Indeed, the Qur'an does even confirm this same warning of Deuteronomy:


"And whosoever seeks other than Islam as their religion it will not be accepted from him, and he shall be in the hereafter among those who have lost"

The noble Qur'an, A'al Umran(3):85

Hallo again, @luv2talk

How body?

Okay, the latest now is the recycled question of Muslims trying to smuggle Muhammad into Moses prophecy?

Lol. . . uhm, let's see: I think this issue has been squarely dealt with in previous threads. tell you what: I'll plagiarize some rejoinders and repost here to keep you warm for the moment. . . then perhaps after work much, much later I'll come keep you company on your further worries. Fair enough?

i thought lakpenne told us the bible was nothing but "useless interpretations" . . . mohamadu is now in that same bible? Allah and his constant shifting of the goalposts!

So, here goes:

---

Here's my response to your earlier request for an outline of the similarities between Moses and Jesus. First, I would like to lay out a structure for this discussion.

Most Muslim apologists strenuously arguing for Muhammad in Deuteronomy 18 hinge their convictions on just two main points :

(a) "a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee" (vs. 18) - therefore, they suppose he must be an Arab from Ishmael, since it is supposed that the Ishmaelites are brethren to the Jews;

(b) "and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them" (vs. 18) - hence, Muhammad was purported to have received Allah's undiluted word in the recitations of the Qur'an.

The fallacies behind these thoughts are self-evident. Who are the brethren of the Jews to whom Moses referred in Deut. 18:15 & 18? And did Muhammad have a similar experience as Moses to whom God spoke "face to face"? We shall be closely examining these two positions from a Biblical perspective.

The Prophet Like Unto Moses - Jesus or Muhammad?

Deuteronomy 18:15 & 18.
¹⁵The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me;
unto him ye shall hearken; ¹⁸I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee,
and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Three things are brought to our attention in these verses concerning the similarities:

1. the profile of the Prophet - He is to be "like unto" Moses.
2. the kinship of the Prophet - He is to emerge from within Israel ('from the midst of thee, of thy brethren')
3. the prophetic message of the Prophet - He shall speak the very Word put in His mouth.

1. The Profile of the Prophet.

Who was Moses as a prophet of God? This question is important, because nothing bears any weight if we don't know Moses as a "prophet" before we try to describe the 'Prophet' that should be like unto him.

Moses was born under very trying circumstances in which the lives of male Hebrew children were threatened by a king - Pharaoh of Egypt (Exo. 1:15-16, 22). Protected miraculously from this threat, he grew up in Egypt and sensed the calling of God to be Israel's deliverer from Egyptian bondage (Exo. 2:1-11a; Acts 7:21-23). Rejected by his fellow Hebrews, he fled for his life and went into exile in Midian, where he met and married his wife Zipporah (Exo. 2:13-21); only returning from exile after the men who sought his life had died (ch. 4:19).

Moses received his divine call as a prophet and deliverer in an encounter in mount Horeb (Exo. 3:1-10). Accompanied by his brother Aaron as his spokesman (Exo. 4:14 & 16), he went with a divine commission to encounter the incumbent and feared Pharaoh in order to bring Israel out of Egyptian bondage (ch. 5:1).

We should notice also the confirmation of his divine commission as a prophet - by powerful, miraculous signs and wonders (Ex. 3:20; 4:4, 21ff); by the power of his prophetic utterance (Exo. 4:12); by his ability to stand as mediator and intercessor on Israel's behalf (Exo. 19:17-19; Deut. 5:5); and by the glory reflected on his face (Ex. 34:29-30). As we identify the Prophet of Duet. 18, we shall have cause to see more about Moses' profile as a prophet. However, what distinguishes him from other prophets after him is Deut. 34:10-12 >> "And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, In all the signs and the wonders, which the LORD sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land, And in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel."

Why do the criteria of marriage, occupation, etc. not suffcicient basis for identifying the Prophet of Deut. 18:15 & 18? For the simple reason that these were not the features mentioned in those texts; rather, He would be recognized as one who stood as a 'Prophet'. If marriage, occupation, etc. could be used as a criteria at all, then many prophets would be far more qualified than Moses. An example is the Jewish prophet Samuel - (1 Sam. 8:1-2 and 1 Chron. 6:28) who also had married and had the same number of kids as did Moses. And even non-Jewish, non-Christian and non-Islamic "prophets" who married and sired children would be able to claim that they were the expected "Prophet" instead of Muhammad or Jesus.

It is of no consequence to measure divine calling by marriage ties, occupation, etc., because the context of Deut. 18 points out that the expected One was to be a "Prophet". God didn't say that He would raise them a "family man (or a famer) like unto Moses" - and people should grow up and drop such unwitty insinuations. What sets a man apart as a 'Prophet' is his prophetic calling by God; rather than some marriage ties or occupation.


2. The Kinship of the Prophet.

We have seen earlier that Moses was an Hebrew (Ex. 2:6); hence also an Israelite. That the prophecy of Deut. 18 speaks of the Prophet 'like unto' Moses, it is important to note well that He was to emerge as an Israelite (a Jew/Hebrew); for He was to arise from within the nation of Israel ("from the midst of thee, of thy brethren" - vs. 15). They were not to look for Him from any other nation than from within their own. No Arab was appointed or annointed as either prophet, priest, or king over Israel. Every Jew understood this, so that even in the NT, twice it was reiterated that Moses' prophecy meant that the Prophet was to emerge from among the Jews (Acts 3:22-23 & 7:37).

The case has been established that the phrase "from the midst of thee, of thy brethren" points only to people within the Jewish nation, especially when one reads its context in such texts as Deut. 17:15 - 'Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.'

It is of utmost importance to substantiate my persuasion that no stranger was to be set over Israel as prophet, priest, or king by divine afflatus. Certainly, the Jews were to love and respect the strangers who dwelt among them (Exo. 22:21; Lev. 19:34 & Deut. 10:19); but such were not to assume the prophetic or priestly offices. Let's bear this out in a few citations.

Jer. 30:21 - "And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD."

That is one precise text that clearly elucidates the point of God raising only Jews as priests, prophets and kings to the Jews. In the case of the Gentile prophet Balaam, he was called a soothsayer (Josh. 13:22) and had his devotion in the 'high places of Baal' (Num. 22:41) - which is antithetical to true devotion to God (Num. 33:52).

How were strangers defined?

One of the half-brothers of Isaac was Midian (Gen. 25:1-2), from whom descended the Midianites. If Moses had counted himself as a relative in context of being one of the Midianite brethren, then he would have acknowledged it during his exile. Rather, when in the land of Midian and had his first son, he named him Gershom, "for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land" (Exo. 2:22). Nehemiah 13: 30 also makes the case for this, that no strangers who are non-Jews were appointed in the priestly or prophetic offices: "Thus cleansed I them from all strangers, and appointed the wards of the priests and the Levites, every one in his business."

In other words, strangers are those who are non-Jewish by birth or lineage. There is a distinction made between the house of Israel and the strangers that sojourned among them (Lev. 17:8 & 18:26).

Now all these go to show that Moses in Deut. 18 clearly meant the Jews by the clause "a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren". He never meant the Arabs; for by extension, that would have created a context for all the sons of Keturah as well (Gen. 25:2), which is not implied in the texts under review. Scripture is clear - "thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.'
" (Deut. 17:15).


3. The Prophetic Message of the Prophet

When a true prophet spoke in the Name of the LORD, the recipients knew they were hearing the very Word of God as though the prophet were only a mouthpiece articulating the voice of the LORD. This goes far beyond a mere recitation of verses (as is claimed for Muhammad with regards to the Qur'an). Biblical prophets were known to deliver prophetic messages with such distinctives as 'Thus saith the LORD' or 'The Word of the LORD that came unto. . .', etc. Such divine afflatus were communicated either in dreams, visions, or openly to the prophet (Num. 12:6); who then delivered the message to the people.

However, what sets Moses apart as a distinct prophet from others are the following words:

'And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle' - Exo. 33:11.

'My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?' - Num. 12:7-8.

Two things immediately come to our notice here: (a) God spoke directly to Moses - 'face to face' and 'mouth to mouth'; and (b) Moses saw the similitude of the LORD. These are two very important criteria that should not be missed about Moses as a distinct prophet; so that we understand that the same criteria are required of the Prophet who should be like unto Moses.

The prophetic word of Moses are marked out by the following -
(i) its potency and efficacy - not only was Moses' prophetic word fulfilled; but also they bore such power as to both deliver God's people and defeat the enemy. Further, the covenant blessings were as sure as their retribution, such that even after Moses was long dead, his prophetic statements continued to be effective in the lives of the Jews;
(ii) its durability and coherence - the prophetic Word given through Moses outlived his generation and was often quoted in the NT on many issues, particularly love and devotion to God.


Having laid out the preceding features of the distinctives of Moses, I'd like to recap and highlight the main issues before delineating the similarities between Moses and Jesus.


Highlights

In order to clearly identify the Prophet in the prophecy of Deut. 18, one has to look at three important areas: (a) His profile; (b) His kinship; (c) His prophetic message. These features would have to be maintained in view of the distinctive experiences that Moses as a prophet had with God - especially as relates to God speaking with him 'face to face'.

Second, we should understand that no Arab or non-Jew was raised as a prophet unto Israel; which is as much a great signal that the Sinaitic covenants were established unto the Jews, and through them salvation would come to the ends of the earth.

We should also remember that other issues like marriage and occupation do not weigh as criteria for the contrasts/comparison; as those are common to many prophets, rather than perculiar to them.

With the foregoing in mind, we shall be examining the similarities as well the contrasts between the prophets; and then lay the basis as to why Muhammad is not the Prophet in Deuteronomy 18.


Source: (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-42101.64.html#msg1020019)

davidylan:

i thought lakpenne told us the bible was nothing but "useless interpretations" . . . mohamadu is now in that same bible? Allah and his constant shifting of the goalposts!

Hehe. . E get wetin we no go see again?

First, they tried to smuggle Muhammad into the Bible - the contract was arrested! Then they got miffed and claimed that the Toraj and Injil were lost - that one sef no work! Then comes bros Lakpenne who dreamed up the "ripped apart" theory - that was also put in the cooler!

Now, we have a gentleman serving us another round of smuggling Muhammad into the same Bible that they have disavowed!

But wait . . . dear Muslims, have you ever wondered that Christians do not need to frantically go to the Qur'an to authenticate the Bible? Now, let's propose another theory:

Would Muhammad stand as a prophet without the slightest recourse to the Bible?

Wanna try? Okay, I dey wait!

luv2talk:

"I (God) will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (moses), and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

Deuteronomy 18:18

and you think this refers to mohamadu the arabian robber?

luv2talk:

a) Like unto moses

Muslims believe in all of the previous prophets. They make no distinction between them, nor do they place one above the others in piety. However, they are all human, and as humans they differ from one another in their characteristics. Let us compare these characteristics:

Stop parroting this old piffle! We know that muslims revere mohamadu, the village thug, as the "last and GREATEST" prophet. Now if that is not making a distinction then my dictionary must be out of date.
Where have muslims arrested a teacher for naming her teddy bear Moses or David?
How many times have you burnt embassies and threatened a day of rage over cartoons of prophet Isaiah?
Indeed muslims "believe all the previous prophets". Just surprising that NOT A SINGLE one of their purported prophecies appears in the quran.

luv2talk:

1) Both Christians and Muslims agree that both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) had fathers and mothers. They both also believe that Jesus (pbuh) had only a mother and no father. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

And? I have a father and mother so am i like Moses too? perhaps that scripture was refering to me too.

luv2talk:

2) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) married and begat children. Jesus (pbuh) never married nor had any offspring. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

What a silly piece of lazy scholarship. the bible mentions "a prophet like unto Moses" and you block heads assume that it was in reference to mundane physical attributes like marriage, height, hair color, number of children, possession of sheep and goats?

luv2talk:

3) Moses (pbuh) was accepted by the Jews and to this day, as a nation, they accept him as their prophet. Muhammad (pbuh) was accepted by his people, and as a nation, over one billion Muslims around the world accept him as the prophet of Allah. Jesus (pbuh), however, was rejected by his people (the Jews) as stated in the Christian's own Bible: "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not" (John 1:11) Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

You forgot one important fact: Mohamadu put those who rejected him (trust me, millions did reject him) to the sword, enslaved their wives and carried off their children as slaves. Therefore, Mohamadu is NOT like Moses.

luv2talk:

4) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) were kings on Earth in the sense that they had the ultimate power of government, the power to inflict capital punishment.

So this is what muslims understand as the "ultimate power of government"? Not leadership, not guidance, not spiritual role modelling BUT the power to inflict capital punishment? Is anyone still wondering why islam is all about hate, death, violence and stoning?

luv2talk:

5) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) came with a new and comprehensive set of laws for their people. The law brought by prophet Moses was named the Judaic Law, and the law brought by prophet Muhammad was named the Shari'ah.

While moses's laws are all about loving God and your neighbour . . . care to tell us what mohamadu's laws were about? Stoning, cutting off of hands and lashes?

luv2talk:

6) Moses lead his people in a secret mass exodus from their hometown to Median in an attempt to flee the persecution of their enemies. Muhammad (pbut) too emigrated with his followers from their home town to Madinah in secret in order to flee the torture of their enemies. Jesus, however, never led his followers in a any sort of mass exodus from their hometowns . Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Ridiculous. the imam who came up with this nonsense shld be charged with fraud. Moses did not lead his people in secret . . . pharaoh HAD to let them go after seeing the mighty hand of God on the Egyptians. How can a people who made a passover and borrowed trinkets and jewelry from the Egyptians before leaving Egypt have left in secret?
How did a large crowd of over 2million people leave in secret? Where the Egyptians blind?

luv2talk:

7) Moses was victorious over his enemies both morally as well as physically. Pharaoh was defeated by Moses and all of his army were drowned in the sea. Muhammad (pbuh) too met his enemies in battle and defeated them all.

Moses and the children of Isreal "defeated" their enemies without lifting a stone, mohamadu destroyed those who rejected him (labelled enemies for the sole purpose of decieving the weak minded) with the sword.
Therefore . . .

So mr luv2misyarn

Moses was not a jew? Wetin i no go read.
go and find the torah you all said was lost first, maybe mohamadu is there.

@luv2talk,

Now, let's sift quickly through yours - I need to get busy soon again after this.

luv2talk:

"I (God) will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (moses), and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

Deuteronomy 18:18


There are many verses in the Old Testament that predict the coming of Jesus (pbuh). This one, however, is not one of them. This can be clearly seen from the following four points:


a) Like unto moses

Muslims believe in all of the previous prophets. They make no distinction between them, nor do they place one above the others in piety. However, they are all human, and as humans they differ from one another in their characteristics.

I'll simply pass over those intros - we already know that Muslims have often tried to set Muhammad above other prophets - by attitude, word and action. Try making the shahada read something like this:

    There is no god but God and Moses is His prophet.

Would that be considered enough to make someone a Muslim?

luv2talk:

Let us compare these characteristics:

1) Both Christians and Muslims agree that both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) had fathers and mothers. They both also believe that Jesus (pbuh) had only a mother and no father. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Let's also agree that both Moses and Samuel (as well as the other prophets - Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Daniel) all had fathers and mothers! Where does that leave Muhammad?

luv2talk:

2) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) married and begat children. Jesus (pbuh) never married nor had any offspring. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

The prophet Samuel also married and begot children - and what is interesting here is that Samuel had the same number of children that Moses had (two nice boys)!  

Muhammad? The gentleman had several chidren from various WIVES - some grabbed with the right hand from war after their husbands were murdered!

luv2talk:

3) Moses (pbuh) was accepted by the Jews and to this day, as a nation, they accept him as their prophet. Muhammad (pbuh) was accepted by his people, and as a nation, over one billion Muslims around the world accept him as the prophet of Allah. Jesus (pbuh), however, was rejected by his people (the Jews) as stated in the Christian's own Bible: "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not" (John 1:11) Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

FACT #1. Moses was initially REJECTED by his own people (Exo. 2:13-14)

FACT #2. Muhammad was initially rejected by the Quraish - his  own people (yes or no?)

FACT #3. Jesus was initially rejected by the Jews (John 1:11)

However, what is interesting here to note is that the lives of both Moses and Jesus were threatened at infancy by political and ruthless superpowers of their day!

luv2talk:

4) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) were kings on Earth in the sense that they had the ultimate power of government, the power to inflict capital punishment. When the Jews brought before Moses (pbuh) the Israelite who had been caught collecting firewood on the Sabbath, Moses had him stoned to death (Numbers 15:36). Muhammad (pbuh) had similar authority. When a woman came before him confessing (with no witnesses) to having committed adultery, he gave her a chance to consider the severity of her claim and the punishment she would receive. When she insisted, he ordered her stoned to death and ordered his companions to respect her for her sincere repentance. Jesus (pbuh), however, explicitly refuted the claim that he had a kingdom on earth.

Lol. . . you obviously have missed the spiritual substance of the LAW! The Law was righteous and holy - but it did not have the power to redeem any person (man or woman). And talking about the question of stoning adulterers, both male and femake offenders were punished by the Mosaic law; but Muhammad required a hypocritic law of asking that the victim sought out 4 male Muslims who would have stood there and watched the whole show!

luv2talk:

When he was dragged before the Roman Governor Pontious Pilate with a charge of sedition he said: (John 18:36) "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." Jesus (pbuh) would not resort to lying to save his skin. Thus, he had no earthly kingdom. Further, in John 8:1-7 we read the story of the woman who was taken in adultery by the Jews and brought before Jesus (pbuh). They were hoping to trap him by either having him contradict the laws of Moses (pbuh) by not stoning her, or by placing him in a bad position with the Roman empire by taking the law into his own hands and ordering her stoned. Jesus cleverly extracted himself from this predicament by commanding them: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." So the woman was set free. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Now, let's clear a few bits for you:

(a) If Muhammad was like Moses in the application of a divine Law, ask yourself: how did Moses receive that Law - and did Muhammad receive the Qur'an or Sharia in the same way?  

(b) Did God ever speak to Muhammad when in fact Moses had a one-to-one encounter with God?

(c) The Law was inoperative until it was ratified by the blood of animals; but Muhammad did not ratify any law before he applied them to Muslims and non-Muslims!

If the nuts and bolts are already out of joint, you vehicle of communication falls apart!

pilgrim.1:

If the nuts and bolts are already out of joint, you vehicle of communication falls apart!

that is a huge assumption considering it is most likely he didnt have any vehicle at all in the first place.

davidylan:

i thought lakpenne told us the bible was nothing but "useless interpretations" . . . mohamadu is now in that same bible? Allah and his constant shifting of the goalposts!

Is it today we started to see awusa with bow and arrow?

I no go die

@luv2talk,

luv2talk:

5) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) came with a new and comprehensive set of laws for their people. The law brought by prophet Moses was named the Judaic Law, and the law brought by prophet Muhammad was named the Shari'ah.

That simply rubbishes the claims in the Qur'an! Muhammad claimed in the Qur'an that Allah revealed it for a simple purpose - to CONFIRM what was before it! Once you introduce something different from what was before the Qur'an, that is no longer a "confirmation" but rather a deviation!

luv2talk:

Jesus (pbuh) however, as witnessed by Matthew, claimed to have not introduced any new laws, but to have come to renew the law of Moses (pbuh) and to have neither added nor subtracted from it. In Matthew 5:17-18 we read: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Jesus in Matthew 5 did not claim to come and RENEW the Mosaic Law; but rather to FULFIL it! How could you be misquoting issues and then hoping to cheat behind the counter?

If you want to speak of Muhammad being like Jesus by that criteria, then you obviously have failed to sound a point! Moses in Deuteronomy 18 did not prophesy that the "Prophet" like unto him would come with NEW sets of Laws!  That is where Muslims have continued to miss the point and trying force words into Moses' mouth!

luv2talk:

6) Moses lead his people in a secret mass exodus from their hometown to Median in an attempt to flee the persecution of their enemies. Muhammad (pbut) too emigrated with his followers from their home town to Madinah in secret in order to flee the torture of their enemies. Jesus, however, never led his followers in a any sort of mass exodus from their hometowns . Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Muhammad escaped for fear of his life when he migrated from his hometown; there was nothing "secret" about the exodus that Moses led - for he first confronted the political powers of Pharaoh, mightily demonstrating the power of God over land, rivers, life and the first born of the Egyptians before Pharoah caved in and let Moses and his people go! Even when the Egyptian army pursued after, Moses had only one word for the Israelites:

       "Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD" - Exodus 14:13

What was "secret" about the bold victory that Moses wrought for Israel by God's power?  If it was okay for Muhammad to have stolen away, ducking between mountain and hills to escape for his life, please tell me: who did Muhammad ever confront? Which miraculous powers did Muhammad demonstrate? Where did Muhammad drive back the waves or have control over the rivers as did Moses and Jesus?

You make me laugh!

luv2talk:

7) Moses was victorious over his enemies both morally as well as physically. Pharaoh was defeated by Moses and all of his army were drowned in the sea. Muhammad (pbuh) too met his enemies in battle and defeated them all. This too was a moral as well as a physical victory. Jesus (pbuh) on the other hand is claimed in the Bible to have been crucified by his enemies. Thus, his victory was only a moral one. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Muhammad could not stand to face the enemy when his life was being threatened! Moses withstood the diabolical powers of the witchcraft of Egyptian magicians! The Lord jesus Christ not only conquered sin and the diabolic powers of darkness, He conquered death itself through His resurrection!

Now tell me: why is Muhammad waiting for Jesus to come back and deal with the Anti-Christ instead of facing him himself with his Quraish sword?

luv2talk:

Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh), is claimed by the Christians to have died violently on the cross. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Yep - so did Samuel and other prophets die natural deaths!

Dying natural deaths does not qualify Muhammad as the prophet of Deuteronomy 18.

We all know how Muhammad died - by being poisoned in a roasted piece of meat by a Jewess! Please let us know when you find the same thing about Moses! I don't consider dying by poison a natural death - that is as unnatural as can be!

luv2talk:

9) Both Moses and Muhammad (pbut) lie buried in the ground. Jesus (pbuh), however, is claimed by the Christians to abide in heaven. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Many prophets were also buried and are there in their respective graves. If that criteria qualifies at all, Muhammad is least suited for that verse, because Moses was never buried in a Mosque - Muhammad was buried in a chamber in his own Mosque, inspite of all the protests he gave to Muslims not to do so!

luv2talk:

10) Most Christians claim that Jesus (pbuh) is God. No Christian or Muslim, however, claims that Moses or Muhammad (pbut) was God. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

When God sent Moses to Pharoah, this is what He said to him:

[list]Exodus 7:1
 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. [/list]

Although Moses was not deity (he merely represented God as His prophet), yet, Jesus Christ is deity! However, when you consider the peity of Moses and Jesus, can you honestly say that Muhammad who was a self-confessed sinner could have measured up to even Moses?

@davidylan and nwando, . .

davidylan:

that is a huge assumption considering it is most likely he didnt have any vehicle at all in the first place.

nwando:

Is it today we started to see awusa with bow and arrow?

I no go die

Lol. . . I can hardly concentrate from laughing so hard! I go come back come keep luv2talk company where I left off!

I thought that Muslims hated Jews, and Abraham was a Jew. I am now confused by the Muslim argument.

Some muslims will go to any length to discredit the bible. In their zeal to paint the the bible black, they twist and turn all sorts of callous concussions they learnt at the feet of their imams.

Muslims like luv2talk always drop their objective reasoning when it comes to islam, they just can't think straight even when the truth is staring them in the face. They think that islam and christianity is in some form of competition. For such people, there is little you can do to help them. They need a surgical and spiritual operation by the Holy Spirit to convict them of their error.

Now we have some luv2talk blabber comparing moses with muhammed and discrediting our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Next - they will tell you the quran is the greatest miracle the world has ever seen.

davidylan:

and you think this refers to mohamadu the arabian robber?

Stop parroting this old piffle! We know that muslims revere mohamadu, the village thug, as the "last and GREATEST" prophet. Now if that is not making a distinction then my dictionary must be out of date.

Where have muslims arrested a teacher for naming her teddy bear Moses or David?

How many times have you burnt embassies and threatened a day of rage over cartoons of prophet Isaiah?
Indeed muslims "believe all the previous prophets". Just surprising that NOT A SINGLE one of their purported prophecies appears in the quran.

And? I have a father and mother so am i like Moses too? perhaps that scripture was refering to me too.

What a silly piece of lazy scholarship. the bible mentions "a prophet like unto Moses" and you block heads assume that it was in reference to mundane physical attributes like marriage, height, hair color, number of children, possession of sheep and goats?

You forgot one important fact: Mohamadu put those who rejected him (trust me, millions did reject him) to the sword, enslaved their wives and carried off their children as slaves. Therefore, Mohamadu is NOT like Moses.

So this is what muslims understand as the "ultimate power of government"? Not leadership, not guidance, not spiritual role modelling BUT the power to inflict capital punishment? Is anyone still wondering why islam is all about hate, death, violence and stoning?

While moses's laws are all about loving God and your neighbour . . . care to tell us what mohamadu's laws were about? Stoning, cutting off of hands and lashes?

Ridiculous. the imam who came up with this nonsense shld be charged with fraud. Moses did not lead his people in secret . . . pharaoh HAD to let them go after seeing the mighty hand of God on the Egyptians. How can a people who made a passover and borrowed trinkets and jewelry from the Egyptians before leaving Egypt have left in secret?
How did a large crowd of over 2million people leave in secret? Where the Egyptians blind?

Moses and the children of Isreal "defeated" their enemies without lifting a stone, mohamadu destroyed those who rejected him (labelled enemies for the sole purpose of decieving the weak minded) with the sword.
Therefore . . .

david,I almost fell out my chair laughing at these your responses.
chei,I no go die.

ho ho ho ha ha ha

wendymanda:

I thought that Muslims hated Jews, and Abraham was a Jew. I am now confused by the Muslim argument.

You ain't seen nothing yet.
Moses was Hebrew AKA Jew,a group that was called apes and pigs by Mohammed and his allah
then abracadabra,allah made Mohammed like a Jew
to lead the Jewish people instead he led the Arabs or Arabs now Jews?

How confused can allah be

Allah says the Bible is corrupted yet somehow he smuggled Mohammed into the corrupted Bible to lead the wrong group of folks
I no go die

alexis:

Some muslims will go to any length to discredit the bible. In their zeal to paint the the bible black, they twist and turn all sorts of callous concussions they learnt at the feet of their imams.

Muslims like luv2talk always drop their objective reasoning when it comes to islam, they just can't think straight even when the truth is staring them in the face. They think that islam and christianity is in some form of competition. For such people, there is little you can do to help them. They need a surgical and spiritual operation by the Holy Spirit to convict them of their error.

Now we have some [b]luv2talk blabber comparing moses with muhammed and discrediting our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Next - they will tell you the quran is the greatest miracle the world has ever seen.[/b]

a miracle that was eaten by a hungry goat.
go figure

@Nwando: You got it wrong, dear. Since Qur'an was an oral document, there is no problem in
if what is written down is eating by an elephant, with glutonic appetite. Whats important is
people have it in their memory! Young and old. My dear it does not work to drag Qur'an down
to the level of the Bible. They are on different levels and viewed very diffrerently.

olabowale:

@Nwando: You got it wrong, dear. Since Qur'an was an oral document, there is no problem in
if what is written down is eating by an elephant, with glutonic appetite. Whats important is
people have it in their memory! Young and old. My dear it does not work to drag Qur'an down
to the level of the Bible. They are on different levels and viewed very diffrerently.

Rather it is muslims who are too desperate to reference the bible. Ever seen christians ferreting within the quran to confirm the bible? No sir! Christians were reading the bible well before Muhamadu's grandfather was born!

@Pilgrim.1: If I were to respond to you in the manner you cowardly respond to me
I will be very critical with your effort to bend the truth, in your effort to explain the
verse in Deut. 18;18, trying to over paint Jesus as the prophet described! You are
amazing and you should be nicknamed, 'evil genius.' Bravo! But it just does not work!

First, since you are an African, you should know from the African perspective that
brethren means, someone you share bloodline with, eg Cousin, etc. Ibrahim, is not  
exclusive to the Children of Israel! (To the one poster who probably do not know what
Children of Israel consists of; It consists all the 12 major tribes of the children of Israel,
the Jew, as a tribe is one of the 12 tribes.)

Further, Ibrahim, was from the old ancient Iraqi city state called Ur, There is no way he could
be a Jew. The Jews as a tribe, in the original definition of it, is the branch of Judah, and Judah was
the children of Jacob. And Jacob is the son of Isac, the son of Ibrahim. How is it then
possible that the ribe emanated from the name of great grand son of a man, the the man
can be defined as from that tribe. Mind you taking precedence over Joseph, the true prophet
amongst these 12 brothers, who they actually bowed their heads to?

The point is this if we just for a moment accept Jesus as the person of the verse in Deut 18;18,
will have to agree that he is only a prophet and can not be anything else!

Further, according to the character of that person in that verse, what he says, alone will have to be the
complete materials, within the 4 corners of the page, of instructions. Therefore anything that Paul
said will have to be discarded! There will be a lot of loose ends in the story already woven in the
NT. There will not be any room for any one to claim that he is God and or son of God. You will have to choose
in this case, He can not be prophet exclusively, as per the verse, because he will have to fit like
as a prophet alone, like Moses.

@Davidylan: Your last quote is kinda fussy to me. The Muslims are trying to
call you back to the path that will benefit you. Thats all. Take it or leave it!

First, since you are an African, you should know from the African perspective that
brethren means, someone you share bloodline with, eg Cousin, etc. Ibrahim, is not
exclusive to the Children of Israel! (To the one poster who probably do not know what
Children of Israel consists of; It consists all the 12 major tribes of the children of Israel,
the Jew, as a tribe is one of the 12 tribes.)

Olabowale, why does the occurence of the term 'brethren' in the Deuteronomy 18:18 verse have to be defined in terms of a (supposed) African perspective, rather than the immediate context of the verse itself?. Pilgrim1 spelled it out clearly here:

The case has been established that the phrase "from the midst of thee, of thy brethren" points only to people within the Jewish nation, especially when one reads its context in such texts as Deut. 17:15 - 'Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.'

Context, context, context.

Hallo again, @luv2talk

How body?

Okay, the latest now is the recycled question of Muslims trying to smuggle Muhammad into Moses prophecy?

Lol. . . uhm, let's see: I think this issue has been squarely dealt with in previous threads. tell you what: I'll plagiarize some rejoinders and repost here to keep you warm for the moment. . . then perhaps after work much, much later I'll come keep you company on your further worries. Fair enough?

Can we ask them which is easier: "Accepting Jesus christ as Lord and Saviour" or "Smugling Mohammed into the Bible"?

dafidixone:

Can we ask them which is easier: "Accepting Jesus christ as Lord and Saviour" or "Smugling Muhammad into the Bible"?

@ davidlan Well,Jesus is not my Lord and saviour,he is a human being like me,he was a prophet of Allah and can never be Lord or God.He said it clearly in the Bible that i he can do Nothing except through God.So,why should you regard an ordinary messenger as your lord and God.This is Ridiculous.I think its high time for you to think and read your Bible again, today is not too late for you to accept islam, act fast, SALAM

He said it clearly in the Bible that i he can do Nothing except through God.So,why should you regard an ordinary messenger as your lord and God.This is Ridiculous.I think its high time for you to think and read your Bible again, today is not too late for you to accept islam, act fast, SALAM

please, how old are you/

I gave up reading the bible when i was old enough to chose. I was really fed the words from infant till i was 26 there after i will rather put my money for charity than pay any tithe or Sunday donation because i don't see why. i will rather give the money to homeless or motherless or a widow. If God see that fine if not fine. I have a free will to chose.

dot2002:

I gave up reading the bible when i was old enough to chose. I was really fed the words from infant till i was 26 there after i will rather put my money for charity than pay any tithe or Sunday donation because i don't see why. i will rather give the money to homeless or motherless or a widow. If God see that fine if not fine. I have a free will to chose.

@ dot2002: Im really happy for you.infact,i thank God for bailing you from the prison of ignorance,which dwell some dogmatised fanatics who claim to be Good Christian and destort other religion.I think Pilgrim.1,dafidixone , longman83 , davidylan , nwando and others should learn from My dear dot2002 so that they wont die calling human being their God and savious, Enough is Enough

dot2002, don't put your equal down for no reason, instead think of them as intellectuals at least they contribute in one way or another to your debates, don't be so personal too. I attended a Muslim school too my best friends were Muslim so i decided to slug it out for 6 at Muslim sec in kogi and we pray everyday. like bimilahi ramani ra im and shit like that. lol

luv2talk,

As I exhorted you before, I do so again: Please put your religion into practise first by giving fellow muslim Misha'al Ibn Abdullah credit for his work, which you have repeatedly pasted here. There's no point telling us how bad our faith is if you cannot practise yours in the simple matter of intellectual honesty!

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch6.7.html

I understand that you 'luv 2 talk', but you should know that actions speak much louder than words. As long as you persist in defrauding your brother muslim, your eternal fate will appear just as precarious, by your own standards, as you claim that ours is.

Peace.

@Longman83: Your response to me today is posted below;

Quote from the the response of Olabowale, yesterday to Pilgrim:
First, since you are an African, you should know from the African perspective that
brethren means, someone you share bloodline with, eg Cousin, etc. Ibrahim, is not
exclusive to the Children of Israel! (To the one poster who probably do not know what
Children of Israel consists of; It consists all the 12 major tribes of the children of Israel,
the Jew, as a tribe is one of the 12 tribes.)

The response of Longman83 to the above, from Olabowale
Olabowale, why does the occurence of the term 'brethren' in the Deuteronomy 18:18 verse have to be defined in terms of a (supposed) African perspective, rather than the immediate context of the verse itself?. Pilgrim1 spelled it out clearly here:


Quote, Longman83 quoting Pilgrim.1's past entry as a response to Olabowale's above entry:
The case has been established that the phrase "from the midst of thee, of thy brethren" points only to people within the Jewish nation, especially when one reads its context in such texts as Deut. 17:15 - 'Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.'
Context, context, context. (Olabowale response to Longman83: Long before the establishment of
the state of Israel, say 150 years ago, the Children of Israel who lived in palestine, the Arabs of
Palestine gladly called them brothers or cousins, the least form of way of acknowledging their blood ties to their
common Patriarch, Ibrahim. Today, the Jews will proudly call any Muslim, their COUSIN, barring the
politicking and their unsteadiness of their effort to stand out for is right, in the face of the tyrannical
Christian fundamentals, who purport to be their supporters, but really their future mass slaughterers.
In view of the above, the Arabs are brethren of the Children of Israel. Muhammad was an Arab!
When Jesus was asked if he was the King of the Jews, he flatly denied it. The Children of Israel, okay
the Jews, never at anytime, offered him the throne as a king. In the case of Muhammad, he was offered to be
made the King of all Makka, and knowing the history of the region, during his lifetime, he could have
been the king of the whole of Arab peninsula. The Muslims, under the leadership of Umar bin Khattab
conquered Jerusalem, under Muhammad's mandate. He could have been king, for and on behalf of
Muhammad. My brother, so you see, it fits Muhammad like a glove. However, if it is your view to accept
your biased Church leaders, in deed Christian explanation, and of course, our eminent Pilgrim.1's
expalanation, then my question is still the same thing, will you then restrict Jesus only to the full
description of that verse, as a Prophet? Remember it is to be exactly like Moses, from the religion
point of view. Moses never claimed to be son of God, not to even think of saying he is God! This is
where you need to reexamine your heart and make sound judgement to safe your own Hyde!)

longman83 he should have started the debate like u paste the reference

@dot2002: Uh? The Kindergarten class, is already in recess. Come back tomorrow.
This a grown up forum. How do you Justify labelling somebody exactly like Moses, then
you immediately turn around and call this person God? Could you tell me;

Was Moses not just Prophet and nothing else?

Did Moses claimed to be the son of God?

Did Moses claimed to be God?

Is God like Moses?


You need to challenge your heart and please provide your respond,
A one liner will not cut it. Am sorry.

I love to think you are referring
to my messages but i don't see
how i connect with moses.
hope this is more than a line? ha ha