This argument featured  during a Sunday School in a church when the teacher said Jesus said nobody will enter the kingdom of god but through him.  One old man stood angrily and asked him(the teacher) if his fore father(the teacher) knew Christ before they died?  And that does it mean that an herbalist who did no evil but feared God will go to hell also? please contribute your own idea.

Am not a christian. However, Jesus is not the only way to Paradise. Jesus authority about hell and paradise started when he began his Ministry and ended when Muhammad began his own Ministry. Muhammad's authority extends from that time till the end of mankind. Really, my man, you are on the bus going the opposite direction. So you should get off, and come to Islam. This is where you will be successful.

aristole:

THIS ARGUEMENT FEATURED DURING A SUNDAY SCHOOL IN A CHURCH WHEN THE TEACHER SAID JESUS SAID NOBODY WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD BUT THROUGH HIM.ONE OLD MAN STOOD ANGRILY AND ASKED HIM(THE TEACHER) IF HIS FORE FATHER(THE TEACHER) KNEW CHRIST B4 THEY DIED?AND THAT DOES IT MEAN THAT AN HERBALIST WHO DID NOT EVIL RECORD BUT FEARED GOD WILL GO HELL ALSO ?PLEASE CONTIBUTE YOUR OWN IDEA.

you need to free your mind from that crap and delusion of a teaching :jesus said this jesus said that  stuff

jesus said a lot of delusional and psychotic stuffs 

olabowale:

Am not a christian. However, Jesus is not the only way to Paradise. Jesus authority about hell and paradise started when he began his Ministry and ended when Muhammad began his own Ministry. Muhammad's authority extends from that time till the end of mankind. Really, my man, you are on the bus going the opposite direction. So you should get off, and come to Islam. This is where you will be successful.

All you lost muslims make wuna allow us hear word jare. misguided generation.

All you lost muslims make wuna allow us hear word jare. misguided generation.

Wetin be wuna?
What makes you think that you are rightly guided?

aristole:

THIS ARGUEMENT FEATURED DURING A SUNDAY SCHOOL IN A CHURCH WHEN THE TEACHER SAID JESUS SAID NOBODY WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD BUT THROUGH HIM.ONE OLD MAN STOOD ANGRILY AND ASKED HIM(THE TEACHER) IF HIS FORE FATHER(THE TEACHER) KNEW CHRIST B4 THEY DIED?AND THAT DOES IT MEAN THAT AN HERBALIST WHO DID NOT EVIL RECORD BUT FEARED GOD WILL GO HELL ALSO ?PLEASE CONTIBUTE YOUR OWN IDEA.

@Poster, I do not believe We can Try to do God's work for him and get it right. God knew the man's ancestors more than even that man knew them. God knew their hearts and their intentions and being a just God knows how best to judge them, even better than that man himself or anyone can come up with. Even in scripture, It is said that we see the outward man but God sees the very heart of man and knows what drives every man. They may not have known Jesus by name but who is to say that they never knew him at all? Even people in india who have never seen a bible or heard the gospel have woken up one day and started on path to know Christ. We live among people today that we can not say for sure we know, how then can we judge those whom we never met?? Yes, the word says that No sinner will make it to heaven. Who knows the sinners among us?? God. So for such persons, I say they focus on their own lives and let God deal with the technicals.

[b]This is a very sensitive issue!

Poster, you’re going too far by talking about our fore fathers. In recent time, I have met people who have never heard of Christianity, even Islam. Does it mean they will go to hell as well? The one and only God is not an arbitrary God, HE is perfect, and so His laws are perfect. The way to paradise is in the heart of every man. Put differently, every human being knows what is right from what is wrong; we all know what is SINFUL from what is not.

The cannel of the message of Jesus Christ is in 2 folds …………………1) Love your God and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself. Basically, every other religion on earth teaches these. You need not be a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist …you name it…, for you to know how to Love God by fulfilling HIS WILL which is basically …, living aright in your thoughts, words and actions. And then how to love ones neighbor as oneself is in everyman’s heart. These key values are what we lack, we know them but we don’t pay much attention to them…, perhaps because of their logic and simplicity. These days, an average human being believes that anything that is of God should be complex, illogical and beyond man’s comprehension. That is exactly why we think that forgiveness is all about ‘praying for forgiveness’. It is evident in the Bible that we shall sow what we reap and it is implied that the only condition for forgiveness is CHANGE.

As I have seen, those who plough iniquity, and sow trouble, reap the same. (Job4:.
For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit. (Luke 6:43).
Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. (Galatians 6:7).
We’re too hyper religious instead of being spiritual. We should learn to stand aright by living an exemplary life pleasing unto God.

God is no respecter of any man, nation or religion. But he who does HIS WILL, will surely find his path to paradise.

Acts: 10 34-35…, it reads… "Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation any one who fears Him and does what is right is acceptable to Him."

Mathew 7:21 says ‘Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven’.[/b]

Dorcasde:

[b]This is a very sensitive issue!

Poster, you’re going too far by talking about our fore fathers. In recent time, I have met people who have never heard of Christianity, even Islam. Does it mean they will go to hell as well? The one and only God is not an arbitrary God, HE is perfect, and so His laws are perfect. The way to paradise is in the heart of every man. Put differently, every human being knows what is right from what is wrong; we all know what is SINFUL from what is not.

The cannel of the message of Jesus Christ is in 2 folds …………………1) Love your God and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself. Basically, every other religion on earth teaches these. You need not be a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist …you name it…, for you to know how to Love God by fulfilling HIS WILL which is basically …, living aright in your thoughts, words and actions. And then how to love ones neighbor as oneself is in everyman’s heart. These key values are what we lack, we know them but we don’t pay much attention to them…, perhaps because of their logic and simplicity. These days, an average human being believes that anything that is of God should be complex, illogical and beyond man’s comprehension. That is exactly why we think that forgiveness is all about ‘praying for forgiveness’. It is evident in the Bible that we shall sow what we reap and it is implied that the only condition for forgiveness is CHANGE.

As I have seen, those who plough iniquity, and sow trouble, reap the same. (Job4:.
For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit. (Luke 6:43).
Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. (Galatians 6:7).
We’re too hyper religious instead of being spiritual. We should learn to stand aright by living an exemplary life pleasing unto God.

God is no respecter of any man, nation or religion. But he who does HIS WILL, will surely find his path to paradise.

Acts: 10 34-35…, it reads… "Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation any one who fears Him and does what is right is acceptable to Him."

Mathew 7:21 says ‘Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven’.[/b]

can you defend all these attributes you have stated above about the yahweh/jehovah god in the old testament?

IDINRETE:


can you defend all these attributes you have stated above about the yahweh/jehovah god in the old testament?

Defend
Your coming to Nairaland shows that you can read and write very well. Therefore, I'd advice you to go to the Old Testament, read it and figure out all you need to know viz-a-viz my post. .

That is my contribution to the topic in question. If it makes sense to you, good! Otherwise, it's also good. Feel free to address the question or shed more light on different contributions based on your fate and understanding.

that old testament god, TO ME, is a belligerent, blood thirsty tyrant who supports war, infanticide, slavery, sharing of virgins,   

IDINRETE:

that old testament god, TO ME, is a belligerent, blood thirsty tyrant who supports war, infanticide, slavery, sharing of virgins,

For once you make a statement that I can actually say is intelligent since you added that it is about what you think. Apparently not all persons see him as you do so why not move on ??

THIS ARGUEMENT FEATURED  DURING A SUNDAY SCHOOL IN A CHURCH WHEN THE TEACHER SAID JESUS SAID NOBODY WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD BUT THROUGH HIM.ONE OLD MAN STOOD ANGRILY AND ASKED HIM(THE TEACHER) IF HIS FORE FATHER(THE TEACHER) KNEW CHRIST B4 THEY DIED?AND THAT DOES IT MEAN THAT AN HERBALIST WHO DID NOT EVIL RECORD BUT FEARED GOD WILL GO HELL ALSO ?PLEASE CONTIBUTE YOUR OWN IDEA.

through Adam, Sin came into the world.  Because God is Merciful He send His only Son to serve as the remision for Sin.  Meaning After Christ no one can get to the Father in heaven.

To provide my view on your main concern, Those fore fathers who knew not Christ even though they have no evil record which I doubt may not be excuse from the Judgement of God.  Going by the aforemention Sin inherited from Adam.

It is always good for you that you are alive to seek God when He may be found.

According to the Bible everyone who dies goes to hell. But what hell really means and represents to most people is a misconception. Hell is the English translation from the words haides and sheol. Those words mean the common grave. So therefore hell means the common grave. The thought of hell being a place of fiery torment comes the mistranslation of the work Gehenna into hell and the term geennan tou pyros hell fire. That is totally inaccurate.

Gehenna is a place a real place near Jerusalem it was also called the Valley of Hinnom it was basically outside the walls of Jerusalem. During the first century Gehenna was used as an incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of executed criminals considered not worthy of a burial tomb and dead animals were thrown into the fiery Gehenna. In the valley sulfur and brimstone were added to help things burn. Gehenna was more like a garbage dump that was smoldering all the time. The Bible and Jesus have made mention of Gehenna as a place where one would be consumed by fire if he was thrown there, but living people were NOT thrown in to the smoldering land. Gehenna was not a place of torment. Gehenna does not mean hell.

So the conception of a fiery place of torment is not based upon actual Bible teachings or accounts, but actually on the mistranslation of a word and the misunderstanding of a place during the first century.

I hope this helps answer the question!!

@Idinrete
Anyone who feels that way does not truly understand the meaning of the old testament or a lot of the Bible in general. And you confuse things that were done by IMPERFECT humans to be things acceptable to God. There is a difference; yes there are a lot of people that feel that since God can step in at any time that all such events should be stopped, but if you do further research and cross reference events of the old testament with records in the new testament you will see that God reveals his reason for why people suffer and there are currently wars and death throughout the world. You will also see what He plans to do to stop it and when the halt to badness will occur.

kattrina:

According to the Bible everyone who dies goes to hell. But what hell really means and represents to most people is a misconception. Hell is the English translation from the words haides and sheol. Those words mean the common grave. So therefore hell means the common grave. The thought of hell being a place of fiery torment comes the mistranslation of the work Gehenna into hell and the term geennan tou pyros hell fire. That is totally inaccurate.

Gehenna is a place a real place near Jerusalem it was also called the Valley of Hinnom it was basically outside the walls of Jerusalem. During the first century Gehenna was used as an incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of executed criminals considered not worthy of a burial tomb and dead animals were thrown into the fiery Gehenna. In the valley sulfur and brimstone were added to help things burn. Gehenna was more like a garbage dump that was smoldering all the time. The Bible and Jesus have made mention of Gehenna as a place where one would be consumed by fire if he was thrown there, but living people were NOT thrown in to the smoldering land. Gehenna was not a place of torment. Gehenna does not mean hell.

So the conception of a fiery place of torment is not based upon actual Bible teachings or accounts, but actually on the mistranslation of a word and the misunderstanding of a place during the first century.

I hope this helps answer the question!!

@Idinrete
Anyone who feels that way does not truly understand the meaning of the old testament or a lot of the Bible in general. And you confuse things that were done by IMPERFECT humans to be things acceptable to God. There is a difference; yes there are a lot of people that feel that since God can step in at any time that all such events should be stopped, but if you do further research and cross reference events of the old testament with records in the new testament you will see that God reveals his reason for why people suffer and there are currently wars and death throughout the world. You will also see what He plans to do to stop it and when the halt to badness will occur.

Where in the bible does it say the words in Bold as you posted please

@Poster, sorry I think I did not fully answer your question.

aristole:

THIS ARGUEMENT FEATURED DURING A SUNDAY SCHOOL IN A CHURCH WHEN THE TEACHER SAID JESUS SAID NOBODY WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD BUT THROUGH HIM.ONE OLD MAN STOOD ANGRILY AND ASKED HIM(THE TEACHER) IF HIS FORE FATHER(THE TEACHER) KNEW CHRIST B4 THEY DIED?AND THAT DOES IT MEAN THAT AN HERBALIST WHO DID NOT EVIL RECORD BUT FEARED GOD WILL GO HELL ALSO ?PLEASE CONTIBUTE YOUR OWN IDEA.

God set up a method of headship if you will. For instance the head of every woman is a man and the head of man is Jesus, who is also the head of the congregation, and Jesus' head is God. Since sin entered into all of man through Adam and Eve the life God had planned for mankind was ruined to a point. Jehovah God intended for man to live forever in paradise like conditions, but this was lost to us because of sin. Because of His love and perfect justice Jehovah all the debt of a perfect human life to be paid. His own son Jesus Christ is the one who paid the debt. Since it is through Jesus that our debt was paid and we are able to regain everlasting life (when Jehovah and Jesus destroy this wicked system we live in now) it is also through Jesus that we need to go to approach Jehovah. So anyone who died before Jesus will not go to Heaven. Even John the Baptiser who is referred to in Matthew 11:11 as having no on raised up greater than him did not go to Heaven because he died before Jesus.

Anyone who passed away before Jesus will not go to Heaven but will be resurrected to earth when it is restored to its orginal condition. John 5: 28,29 Revelation 21:4

@Kobojunkie

Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 ~ states that the dead are conscious of nothing (if you are not conscious of anything you cannot be tormented) and Sheol is the place to where man is going.

Psalms 9:17 ~ talks about wicked people going to sheol
                               and
Job 14:13 ~ Job prayed that God would not forget him even though he would be in sheol
                     even though in Job 1:8 God himself said that Job was a blameless upright man who turned aside from back
Showing that both those considered righteous and unrighteous end up in the common grave/hell.

The Encyclopedia Americana also contains information stating that a lot of the confusion concerning the misconception that hell is a place of torment is due to mistranslation of the orginal Hebrew and Greek terms.

I enjoy everybody's idea dut Kattrina's is the most enjoying one.Well,Keep the flag flying

What is the essence of going to church then if our fore fathers will not go to hell.So far I keep on doing good.And no bad record.

what do you mean?

Mind game,save yourself,bimbo.Religion is indoctrination and make beliefs,imaginations of one or few dominating others,follow me,i am the way,you are the way,believe and live.

Most  of  our  fore fathers will be accepted of God.The fact we need to know is that the judgement of God,though basically same, is based on the age or dispensation in which men live. 'Those who live before or without the Law will be judged without the law', says the Scriptures.Our fore fathers lived without the law(without the accurate  knowledge of His will as contained in the Scriptures).Those who lived during  the pre-mosaic era(the law had not  been given at this time)or those who lived without the law before Jesus came will be judged by their conscience. Roman 2:12-15 says

"For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all  who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God,but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles(our fore-fathers inclusive),who do not have the law ,by nature do what the law requires,they are a law to themselves,even though they do not have the law.They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts,while their conscience also bears witness,and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them"
 
Many years after the Ascension of Christ, Paul the Apostle went to Athens and  preached  Christ before the philosophical Areopagus and he told them pointblank by the Spirit of God that "The times of ignorance (about the true God) God overlooked,but now He commands all people everywhere to repent, because He has fixed (appointed) a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom He has appointed;and of this He has given assurance to all (everybody in the world) by raising him from the dead, Act17:30-31."
God, in this dispensation  (these last days), reveals Himself  to the world through His Son, Jesus Christ. Hebrew 1:1-2 declares that "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers( the Saints of old in the old covenant) by the Prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son,whom He appointed the heir of all things, through whom also He created the world." If you accept the revelation of God to man in this adulaterous age by accepting and believing Christ, you will be accepted of God.Doing the will of God is more than being a committed and staunch member of a religious denomination. It is more than going to Church or any place of worship. Roman 14:17 asserts that 'the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness,and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost".

kattrina:

@Kobojunkie

Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 ~ states that the dead are conscious of nothing (if you are not conscious of anything you cannot be tormented) and Sheol is the place to where man is going.

[b]Psalms 9:17 ~ talks about wicked people going to sheol
and
Job 14:13 ~ Job prayed that God would not forget him even though he would be in sheol
even though in Job 1:8 God himself said that Job was a blameless upright man who turned aside from back
Showing that both those considered righteous and unrighteous end up in the common grave/hell.[/b]

The Encyclopedia Americana also contains information stating that a lot of the confusion concerning the misconception that hell is a place of torment is due to mistranslation of the orginal Hebrew and Greek terms.

Go Back to my original question, and then answer the question NOT spend time TELLING ME what to believe instead @Kattrina. The Question still stands.

There is no hell.Hell does not exist.So the question of whether our forefathers will go to hell just because they were no bible-thumpers is completely without meaning.

JOHN15.22-They would not have been guilty of sin if i had not come and spoken to them,
Hence you know whats up,

@OP:  Who wants to know? Are you one of your fore-fathers? Otherwise why are you bothered?

Kobojunkie:


Go Back to my original question, and then answer the question NOT spend time TELLING ME what to believe instead @Kattrina. The Question still stands.

your question is senseless.why should she answer it?she has given you upto 3 bible quotations to support her claim while you dnt have even a quotation to oppose it.Where in the bible can you see 'TRINITY' written in bold words? but you stupidly believe in it without prove.@Katrina.ride on queen!

Of course they'll go to hell. Except maybe those that were lucky enough to be captured and sold into slavery in places where the bible was preached.
Same as most of the people alive on earth now.

@thehomer
They wont go to hell using this;
JOHN15.22-They would not have been guilty of sin if i had not come and spoken to them.
so seeing that our fore fathers never heard the gospel!

i am not serving God because i want to go to heaven if i do so, just to recognize his allmightiness To Go to heaven, this is God option because heaven belongs to him and his chose will decide not only by believing in jesus xtian or Muhamed musilim. Abraham did not live in jesus time you will not tell me that God did not receive him in heaven what about Enoch moses etc,

kattrina:

@Poster, sorry I think I did not fully answer your question.

God set up a method of headship if you will. For instance the head of every woman is a man and the head of man is Jesus, who is also the head of the congregation, and Jesus' head is God. Since sin entered into all of man through Adam and Eve the life God had planned for mankind was ruined to a point. Jehovah God intended for man to live forever in paradise like conditions, but this was lost to us because of sin. Because of His love and perfect justice Jehovah all the debt of a perfect human life to be paid. His own son Jesus Christ is the one who paid the debt. Since it is through Jesus that our debt was paid and we are able to regain everlasting life (when Jehovah and Jesus destroy this wicked system we live in now) it is also through Jesus that we need to go to approach Jehovah. So anyone who died before Jesus will not go to Heaven. Even John the Baptiser who is referred to in Matthew 11:11 as having no on raised up greater than him did not go to Heaven because he died before Jesus.

Anyone who passed away before Jesus will not go to Heaven but will be resurrected to earth when it is restored to its orginal condition. John 5: 28,29 Revelation 21:4

Kattrina, your comments are very interesting. If you don't mind me asking, where do you worship? So from what you are also saying, Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Elijah etc etc will not go to heaven? and this is because they died before Jesus came to the world? oh dear! I thought they are meant to sit closer to the throne of God. . .

They will be judged on their knowledge of God