Softee, but the Bible also has some of Gods commandmentss where He comands to kill for committing some sins.


20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the LovePeddler, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

24:14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.



My 2 kobo.

Firstly, let me acknowledge and praise OlaAjia for his dexterity and suaveness in responding to the queries of the christians on this thread, and the attempts by the other muslims to show them that when they see a muslim, they hardly give him a chance, but view only a personification of their own stereotypes of who a muslim is. Well done my brothers!

I will however not be as smooth as OlaAjia has been, and I will show you why. I find glaring contradictions in what softee and others will have us believe is christianity. Let me explain. Firstly baby Osisi said,

babyosisi:

Show me any muslim converts in Nigeria and I'll show you a man with Naira signs in his eyes,I'm sure y'all catch my drift.
Islam cannot change any man for better,only Jesus The Christ can.

Is she implying that christianity is all about financial success?

Then Softee,

Softee:

OlaAjia,

What beautiful replies are you referring to? No muslim has answered my question that how can a GOOD God tell you to fight in his name? I mean everybody knows what violence leads to, this just does not add up to me. I also have many more questions that has yet to be answered.

How can a good God tell you to fight those who fight you?
How can a good God tell you every muslim must be willing to fight until they give you peace?

Continuing she also says,

Softee:

Thank you for trying to make this clearer for me but it still seems very wrong to me and my questions were not answered fully. Showing me that Allah only wants you to fight if another person starts it does not shed any light on my view.

2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

Regardless of they way in which you should fight or who starts it. A GOOD God will not tell you to fight back.

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

Slay them if they attack you first!! how can a good God say this, i don't get it.

Blakconjee, OlaAjia, LAHLAXZA

Let me tell you something. God is good. Vengeance is his. You leave things in his hands and get on with your walk using Jesus as your personal saviour and role model. You cannot spend your life fighting those who fight you because then what kind of life will you have! I am not saying this to make you feel bad, i am just saying the truth. The truth shall set you free. I'm sorry if the subject was a bit intimidating, i didn't really know much about what the Anti-Christ was when i posted it but since, i have learnt. I also know now that ALL muslims do not hate christians and certainly are not the Anti-Christ.

God bless and the Lord knows i'm sorry if i offended.

But here Baby osisi says  something which contradicts her earlier assertions,

babyosisi:

Good talk 4get_ me.
I really do encourage the olaajia and the lahlaxia guy to continue in their quest of the holy scriptures there are a few testimonies of people like them that had miraculous conversions in their quests,actually an Islamic guy got converted to Christianity by reading the "holy" koran specifically the area about Christ returning to wage war and Him and his followers winning.
The guy was smart enough to put two and two together and reasoned that this Christ must be simply too much when even the Koran declared him a winner at the end why waste time with Mo.

Now, if chrisitianity is so peaceful as softee would have us believe, why would it fortell of a war in which Christ will kill the antichrist in revelations? Why would a good God send his 'only begotten son' to wage a war against an evil antichrist who is persecuting his children on earth? Is vengeance not for God? The pacifism which christianity claims is not only unworkeable, but totally unGodly by christian standards as according to the bible, even God waged a war against Satan in Heaven. Besides, I often see christians fight back when they are aggressed against. Should we take that to mean they have been filled by the 'holy spirit'as softee asserted here?

Softee:


I'm sprry if i have offended you in any way but i am a girl who speaks the truth by what i see. I cannot sit here and lie to people. The demon behind everything has to be EXPOSED. I understand that some of my lanugage might have come across unfriendly, this is not what Jesus would have liked me to do and i will be the first to admit i have, in some situations, acted not very christianly.
I love everybody for who they are, not what they believe in, HOWEVER, their comes a point in a christian life that you become ignited by the holy spirit and you can't hold it in, you just have to PREACH.

God bless you.

The truth is, a good God would not allow diseases such as HIV AIDS kill his faithful servants, or the worldwars that claimed all together some 60 million people, or for that matter, the holy crusades where christians and non-christians died, or tell the Jews to fight other unbelievers and kill them in the bible. Except of course if she means to tell me that God had since reformed since he gave those commandments. Please spare me and other muslims all these tell-rales. God is very realistic by ordering that when someone attacks you, you defend yourself. That is another reason why sometimes, I read hypocrisy in christian doctrines as chrisitians sometimes support America's premptive strikes against Arab states in the name of self-defence, while in actual fact the Americans are always the aggressors. Even if America's actions are deemed to be self defence, I thought biblical teachings said you are not to defend yourselves? So why would christians support their actions?  And if I happen to slap softee, would she turn the other side? If you wouldn't, then please do not believe in that pathetic doctrine and embrace the realistic Islamic doctrine of self defence which confirms the first law of nature self preservation.

NOW DIS IS BORING"!

Thanks for the remark kellorah. The truth is almost always boring. However, my candid advice to you all would be to fight for the precious life God has given you. Please if someone holds a weapon to hurt you by, do not allow him to use it, defend yourself, otherwise, you will account to God for not preserving His gift.

Wait, what am I doing? I don't even need to tell you this, your very nature will guide you, it is a truth your tongues belie, but your heads and actions confirm.

ajia i hear u

Good for you. You will live long that way. If you see a suicide bomber, please kill him before he detonates his bomb. And tell all the other christians especially softee to consider what I have said. It is the word of our elders.

I praise God with all by being. I thank Him and I invoke the Mercy of Allah the Almighty on His noblest of Messenger, Muhammad, the prophet from the Quraish tribe of Makka.(SAW)> For it is only amoung mankind who are ungratefyl as a result do not know him will insult such a noble soul. They, this group of people if they die in that state will definately have their place in Hell. Allah the Almighty is sufficient for His Messenger. He His Creator and the One who sent him with the last message, in the same line with previous line of Messagers, like Jesus, Moses (AS) said in Surah Al- Imran that He the Lord of the worlds took an oath from the previous Prophets and Messengers (AS) that in the future when His Messenger will come, if it happens that any of these previous noble souls were to hear about this Messenger (Muhammad, SAW), preaching and confirming what these previous messengers were given, will they support him. They all swear that they will support Him. Allah the Almighty confirm that Muhammad is His Messenger in several ayah of the Qur'an. See the end of those who were open enemies to the Prophet; Abu Jahal, Abu Lahab, Abu Lahab's wife and many more including the one who also claimed prophet hood during the lifetime of our noble prophet (SAW). I read the thread on this topic so far and I come to to conclusions; the person who started this top is a person who is not a bridge builder, no, not even a true nation builder. This person should never be given a position of authority, lest he/she will abuse the prevelege. My other conclusion is that most people confuse Islam truly with the action of Individual, group on community of Muslims. You can only Judge muslims/Muslimas by the sources, Qur'an and Sunnah. I can not Judge Christianity by the actions of the Christians, but I can judge christians by the book of the Christians. You must not forget that the colonialist of Nigeria and the rest of the world are Christians, whereby the enslaves, killed, rape and all kind of atrocities including open and clear stealing of the wealth of the nations and people thay oppressed. Even as we speak that is still going on, in Chechenia for example. We must never forget the Crusade. In the time of Umar Khattab, (RA), the second caliphah of Islam, the coptic Christians of Egypt were being oppressed by the Vatican, anation of Christian sect known as the Catholics. They wrote to the Muslims to help tham against their oppressor. It was the Muslims that liberated them from the catholic and this is how Islam really got to Egypt. When Islam conquared Palestine, the people of Palestine who were Christians were free to practice their religion. Islam brought civilisation to the whole of Europe. The Europeans were in the dark ages and it was Islam that liberated them and taught them civility. I will like to talk about the civil war that took place in Nigeria. In the Yoruba areas , among the Muslims, we hid and protected a good number of Igbo families who did not go back to Igboland before the war started. They could not go out and all their daily existence depended on the host families. Prior to 1970, the Bible that I used in High School was different from what was distributed to the entry class of 1971, for example. Since we are all aware of the present dictate of the world power Islam seems to be that easy target. After all, the Communist /Socialist Soviet Union is dead and the remnant including China, etc is not really a formidable entity, hence Islam is what we have that stands in the way of the powerful block of nations in the quest against world dominance and really enslavement of weaker states. Mark you I do not blame the powerful, unfortunately, the Muslims are not helping the actual nature of Islam. Most of the wars and mass killings that the world has ever witness was spearheaded by Chrisians, against other Christians or others like the Jews and lately Islam. The Invasion of Afganistan by George Bush was first Known as CRUSADE. I remember almost upon such invasion, on Bill Moyers, PBS Channel 13, a notable American writer said of the Invasion "On ward Marching Christian Soldiers to War, " I think you got the Idea. The raping and wholesale killing does noes go too far. I remember the Nigerian civil way, the two leaders were Christians and so were their immediate deputies, If you are an enemy of Islam just say so. I just do not see how you can say that you know Qur'an if you are not a true Muslim scholar with scholarsip, truly a knowledgeable individuals. Islamic knowledge is not easy and Qur'an is very difficult to understand. The laws are very stricts and there is order in its rulings. Both Muslims and non-muslims should endeavor to acquire some knowledge in Islam if you wish to talk for or against it. I must point out to you that the Muslims in the West will be surprised to know that you think that the type of Islam they practice does not follow strictly Qur'an and Sunnah. I live in the west for almost 30 years and it isd here that my Islam improve. It is here in the west that I begin to read Qur'an for the first time in Arabic, it is here that I really know that Islam is more that Salah, etc. Islam is deep and so that you know, I have not seen anyone, espectially a Christian, Individually, Communually or Nation that will allow the second cheek to be struck if one was struck. On the contrary, even before the first cheek is struck or even if it is passived that there might be an inkling of doing so, there will be a preemptive strick. What the Bible say about this meekness is not possible and has never been accepted by any one with any human nature, and we see the example in the way against 'Terror'.Jesus (AS) was not a meek man. He overturn the table of the exchangers and before he was arrested, he told his follwers to arm themselves and be ready for war. The difference between Islam and Christianity as is the matter of Jesus position is Trinity, Sonship and Worship of God. You continue to be your Christian and leave the Muslims alone. Yes there will be some former Muslims who will become Christians, but larger portions of former Christians are becoming Muslims and the West is clear proof of this. I remember that I could have become a Christian myself while I was in a Christian High School, married to a christian wife and born by a Christian Mother. I did not see any logic in it because I can not worship Jesus, who at one time was never was, then born by his mother and then according to the Bible Seized by his enemies and tortured and killed. Who was in charge of the world in all of these conditions when Jesus was apparently helpless. I will worship that God who Jesus bowed his head to and worshipped in the garden of Gershemine. Absolutely, Jesus was not worshipping himself at that time. By the way, I have since divorced from that christian woman who when we were having that marital difficulties she was insulting Islam and I did not respond back to her and Glory belong to God Almighty who had since turn my mother in her old age to Islam in the past few years.

ajia23:

Firstly, let me acknowledge and praise OlaAjia for his dexterity and suaveness in responding to the queries of the christians on this thread, and the attempts by the other muslims to show them that when they see a muslim, they hardly give him a chance, but view only a personification of their own stereotypes of who a muslim is. Well done my brothers!

I will however not be as smooth as OlaAjia has been, and I will show you why. I find glaring contradictions in what softee and others will have us believe is christianity. Let me explain. Firstly baby Osisi said,

Is she implying that christianity is all about financial success?

Then Softee,

Continuing she also says,



But here Baby osisi says something which contradicts her earlier assertions,



Now, if chrisitianity is so peaceful as softee would have us believe, why would it fortell of a war in which Christ will kill the antichrist in revelations? Why would a good God send his 'only begotten son' to wage a war against an evil antichrist who is persecuting his children on earth? Is vengeance not for God? The pacifism which christianity claims is not only unworkeable, but totally unGodly by christian standards as according to the bible, even God waged a war against Satan in Heaven. Besides, I often see christians fight back when they are aggressed against. Should we take that to mean they have been filled by the 'holy spirit'as softee asserted here?

The truth is, a good God would not allow diseases such as HIV AIDS kill his faithful servants, or the worldwars that claimed all together some 60 million people, or for that matter, the holy crusades where christians and non-christians died, or tell the Jews to fight other unbelievers and kill them in the bible. Except of course if she means to tell me that God had since reformed since he gave those commandments. Please spare me and other muslims all these tell-rales. God is very realistic by ordering that when someone attacks you, you defend yourself. That is another reason why sometimes, I read hypocrisy in christian doctrines as chrisitians sometimes support America's premptive strikes against Arab states in the name of self-defence, while in actual fact the Americans are always the aggressors. Even if America's actions are deemed to be self defence, I thought biblical teachings said you are not to defend yourselves? So why would christians support their actions? And if I happen to slap softee, would she turn the other side? If you wouldn't, then please do not believe in that pathetic doctrine and embrace the realistic Islamic doctrine of self defence which confirms the first law of nature self preservation.

ajia23,

First of all if you don't know, their are creations beyond what the human minds knows. Jesus clearly stated he saved sinners thorugh being crucified on his own accord to save us from the evil one. Whenever we sin, we can just repent.

John 10:18
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

You say that why would a good God send his only begotten son to war against the Anti-christ. Do you know who the Anti-christ is? And again Jesus did it on his own accord.

The person who caused death, sucicide, drugs, guns, rape, sexual abuse, sexual immorality, war, depression, sickness, the list can go on. A good God has saved us from this and defeated the EVIL, DECITFUL LIAR. This point of yours has just made God look even more Wonderful.

You copy Gods saying from my text that VENGEANCE is God's. And then you question if vengeance is his why would he send his only begotten son. AGAIN, Jesus done it on his own accord AND Jesus IS our God anyways. He is sitting at the right side of God and God gave us to him. He was with God when God created the world, he is the beginning and the end. So he chooses to save us from the evil one, to save our souls from PAIN.

John 1:1
[ The Word Became Flesh ] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(The word = Jesus)

You say you often see christians fight back. I see terrorists attack and kill millions, whats your point? We all know that people do not always obey the commands of God accuratly and make mistakes. But who are you to judge?
Your comment on the holy spirit was really not needed i personally choose not to answer this because the answers is with you already.

If you hit me TODAY. I will most probably hit you back. I am being honest, God detests liars. But thats because i am christian trying to sort out ones life. I have had a lot of ups and downs with God and have sinned a lot. I am still learning about who my God is and what hes about, i will continually, daily, be asking God for strength that ONE DAY, Somebody will hit me and i will be able to turn my cheek. WHY? Because i will do anything to make God happy and i know his teachings do not come from nowhere, there is a reason why God told us to turn our cheeks. If you hit back, you are more likely to fight. and a good God does not want hi children to fight. Vengeance is his. Always remember that.

Unlike some of you muslims, i can be true to myself. I am not trying to talk like i know what God is doing because i don't. There are 101 questions i will ask God when i get the chance to see him. Unlike you, i do not have to fight for God, because hes GOD! He is the[b] judge[/b]. He will judge those who talked against him and done actions against him. My opinion still remains that a good God cannot tell you to fight back in his name.

20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Jesus came to shed light on a lot of rules. It is now been said by the new testament that:

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell

The concequence of Adultry (if not 4given) is going to hell. This does not show God as a bad person. Your God also sends people to hell.

All the scriptures you showed is from the old testament which Jesus has shed light on. Let me give you a challange. Give me one scripture that teaches violence in the new testament.

@Softee,

I often get irritated when I watch you people denounce the books of the old testament for Tish reason:The old testament, whether you like it or not is a part of your Bible, so why then should Jesus come to "shed light upon" what God has sent down? I only came to realize that Christians, in their quest to hide the truth, tried to do away with the old testament referring to the "new testament Gideon Bible". Only realizing that they could not succeed because it was widely used by the Orthodox, their quest never diminished, as their new claim became "Jesus has shed light on the old testament". So Softee are you insinuating that the old testament that someworth conforms with the Islamic laws was sent by a bad God(God forbid such attestations)? and then the bad God later turned to a Good God when he Gave birth to Jesus, His only begotten son(God does not have the attributes of man, and so cannot beget a son)? How much worse can your lies get, even though they are obvious to non-Christians and Christians alike. Are you testing the intelligence that God gave man or what?

OlaAjia:

The reason Muslims in Europe and America seem to be more liberal is that they have had a rub-off or should i say a little taste of the freedom brought to those nations by the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

@Donnie what taste of freedom are you referring to? Is it the taste of freedom which sees nothing wrong in the imprisonment of humanbeings in the Guantanamo bay, and treating them like animals? How much more freedom can the Gospel preach?
Is it the taste of freedom that allows America take tens of thousands(5o times more than those affected in the world trade center) of innocent lives in Afghanistan and Iraq, then says its okay because EVERYBODY IN THOSE COUNTRIES ARE TERRORISTS? How much more freedom can the Gospel preach?
Is it the same taste of freedom that commands Israel not just to take innocent lives in Pakistan, but take also, their sources of electricity and water, for the ones unaffected by their missile strikes to starve to death? How much more freedom can the Gospel preach? Your research work is pathetic I must confess. If that is what you define as freedom, then the Muslims that have not yet been corrupted by the west don't want a rub-off of your pathetic freedom! Reason next time!!!

omg how do i unsubscribe frm dis topic it's doin ma head in
bye pppl, i fink av sorted it ta-ra
have fun

Olaajia why must you subscribe to the same old Islamic terrorist idea of referring to the USA as a Christian nation.
USA is a secular state HELLOOOOOOO.
The opposite is Islamic state is not the USA.

By the way who tells you those at Guantanamo had no reason to be arrested.
The USA is treating them far better than their own Sharia Govts would have treated them.
Did you ever read the atrocities on Saddam?
How about your own Abacha?

Am I free to say that they are good Muslim examples of leaders?
As long as you muslims refuse to point out the ills you've caused the world,we'll continue to see you the same.Period.

The other thing olaajia,travel to Saudi and have a female relative or friend go with you and ask her to drive you down the street wearing regular clothing with her hair nicely done.
Stop at a street corner and carry a case of beer out from the trunk of your car.

Then return to the forum and tell us about it,post a picture so we can count your digits too.
Christianity did introduce freedom to the world that's why you don't go around today with those flowing garments ,a full grown beard and your wife looking like an Igbo masquerade in full regalia.

OlaAjia:

@Softee,

I often get irritated when I watch you people denounce the books of the old testament for Tish reason:The old testament, whether you like it or not is a part of your Bible, so why then should Jesus come to "shed light upon" what God has sent down? I only came to realize that Christians, in their quest to hide the truth, tried to do away with the old testament referring to the "new testament Gideon Bible". Only realizing that they could not succeed because it was widely used by the Orthodox, their quest never diminished, as their new claim became "Jesus has shed light on the old testament". So Softee are you insinuating that the old testament that someworth conforms with the Islamic laws was sent by a bad God(God forbid such attestations)? and then the bad God later turned to a Good God when he Gave birth to Jesus, His only begotten son(God does not have the attributes of man, and so cannot beget a son)? How much worse can your lies get, even though they are obvious to non-Christians and Christians alike. Are you testing the intelligence that God gave man or what?

When did i say the old testament was not important? It is very important however this is the new age, we are living in the end times so the new testament applies more. Jesus is not a man, i stated before he was with God in the beginning he only came in human form to save mankind. God was always a good God even when people were put to death for certain sins but let me put it like this. In the old testament when a lot of things were going wrong for God, he had to destroy cities, the evil one was creating more sins, he wanted to save the good people out there, in which he done through Jesus. No way has the old testament got anything to do with islamic laws, no matter what you say, no matter how many mind tricks you create, the bible does not encourage fighting and war and enables men to beat their wives.

For those who claim that it is more "Realistic" when it is said in islam that you can hit those who hit you. It is only realistic to the human mind. Gods job is to guide you so you can create the best life for yourself and so you can humble yourself and be dead to sin. Once you are christ-like you will be worthy of going to heaven and will be able to be with Christ who is crowned in Glory. To turn the other cheek is what Jesus would have done.

What achievement are you making when you hit somebody who hit you back? In what way are you making God happy with you?

Softee,

All you have stated smack of pure hypocrisy. Why would God set a standard nobody would be able to attain? You believe in something, but you acknowledge that you rarely follow what you believe in. My sister, 1 advice, practice what you preach. Or better still, join a religion that alllows you what is practical.

You asked what retialaion does? It's simple. Even though we are encouraged to forgive in Islam, but retialation is allowed and it serves the purpose of serving as a deterrent to those who are incorrigibly aggressive and bellicose as well as belligerent. So, if we were to go by christian doctrines, you will have me believe that a murderer should just be allowed to kill another person instead of being punished. So much for justice. So christianity supports injustice. If you disagree, provide your proof.

ajia23,

Your hatred and lack of understanding of christianity's value is so apparent in your statement. Christianity does not encourage retaliation in whatever form. The Bible clearly says "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord". God is the one that will justify and avenge His own.

On the other hand, the Bible clearly teaches that Government is meant to do its duties when a crime is proved. The Bible upholds the laws of the land and tells us that Governments are God's authority on earth and they are meant to punish the law breaker. Imagine if we all go around retaliating for every perceived wrong done to us? The society will be in chaos to say the least.

Your Allah who encourages personal vengeance and retaliation must not like law and order. Who determines what point a person is "ncorrigibly aggressive and bellicose as well as belligerent"? Jesus encourages us to forgive someone 70 times 7 times within a single day if we are provoked. I guess Allah, whom you claim to be oft forgiving is not that patient.

God bless you @ TayoD

Hi TayoD

Now, you totally misunderstand me. When I say retialation, it's only one backed by those in authority. Now you made some satements that require clarification.
1. If someone kills another, and is still with the gun and shoots at the people in autjority, how would christianity say you deal with the situation.
2. What law does christianity come to confirm or uphold? Our traditional religions? or a law that states that gays can marry, people can fornicate, etc?
3. Since christianity supports the law as you assert, why do christians openly criticise the Sharia law even when all it seeks to do is enforce a strict moral code?

Please as much as possible avoid sentiments when answering, and give proper, well thought answers. Also, you may want to check out some intersting stuff on the threads Does the bible contradict itself? and Does christianity support immorality?

ajia23:

Softee,

All you have stated smack of pure hypocrisy. Why would God set a standard nobody would be able to attain? You believe in something, but you acknowledge that you rarely follow what you believe in. My sister, 1 advice, practice what you preach. Or better still, join a religion that alllows you what is practical.

You asked what retialaion does? It's simple. Even though we are encouraged to forgive in Islam, but retialation is allowed and it serves the purpose of serving as a deterrent to those who are incorrigibly aggressive and bellicose as well as belligerent. So, if we were to go by christian doctrines, you will have me believe that a murderer should just be allowed to kill another person instead of being punished. So much for justice. So christianity supports injustice. If you disagree, provide your proof.

I can't believe you have took one comment made by me and and changed it into "i rarely follow what i believe in". I am in a learning process i cannot learn to be Christ-like in a day.

You say why would God set a standard nobody can attain. But my God tells me:

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

TayoD
It is convenient for you to see 'my hatred'of christianity when I raise posers about some things I don't sem to understand about the religion, but when the same allegation is raised about you or other christians, you are quick to deny and claim, I do not hate muslims. Please spare me all those sentiments and concentrate on the issues at hand. Now, when God stated in the Quran, if they fight you, fight them, He was talking to an organised group of people, so your thesis of societal disorder is totally unapplicable in the case of Islam, on the contrary, it is this societal order that Islam seeks to instill, and that is why places where we have sharia law are the most orderly and peaceful in the world. They have the lowest crime rates.

Softee

That precisely is my point. Most christians always fall for this same sin of retialation. Now what does that say about the practicability of such a law? If most of the adherents of the faith cannot practice just a simple provision as do not retialate, then, it speaks volumes of the teachings of that faith.

I have concluded that some muslims have the truth in their hearts. They know Jesus was the son of God. They just enjoy playing mind games and putting people off christianity, just because they have learned the truth and it dosen't surport their Allah.

Now your latest post is very funny. My sister sends her regards

Kellorah- Nice decision. However, please go and research into Islam, and you will find a world full of treasures.

ajia23,

Maybe I'm wrong about you hating Christainity.  But your posts give the impression of someone who has already made up his mind about his stand, and is just out to forment more trouble.  You already concluded that Christianity encourages injustice without providing proofs, so what stand do you expect me to take?

Anyway, the bible says righteousness, justice and peace are the foundations of God's throne. So why would He encourage injustice?  

You say Sharia States are the most peaceful?  Well, I guess Afghanistan (pre-911) must be your ideal state then, abi?  Or kaduna where you can just lose your life at the whim and caprice or a man who thinks you are "incorrigibly aggressive and bellicose as well as belligerent"?

If you are truely trying to find the root cause of dissent to God's law, then you can't put the blame at Christianity, rather you will put the blame at the feet of the one who gave man a freewill.  If you understand that God actually gave us the freewill to choose or ignore His laws, then you need to find out why in His infinite wisom, He chose to go that route.  If you have no answer for this, I will oblige to give it to you.

You sure are wrong. I don't hate christians, but I hate any form of vice in anyone be he Muslim or christian. Afghanistan was not my ideal muslm state because they were some issues like poor treatment of women which they carried out in contravention of the Sharia. But it cerainly came close. While I support Sharia, I do not support extremist standards as the criterion for judgement. As for the Northern Nigeria Sharia, I am afraid it's all politics, little religion. So, if people were killed innocently, it was a travesty of the norm. I am yet to see a truly complete Sharia state, but Saudi Arabia comes close even though they put in aspects of their culture into it. Still, their crime rate was the lowest in the world last year as it has been for years running. Reference, UN office for drug and crime.

Christianity should share part of the blame for substituting a strict code with one that preaches total freedom. This is the bane of the society today, and it is indeed haunting christianity itself. As evidenced by gay marriages, and sundry offences. The moment the Chursh realizes it cannot allow people toy with the law, the better the church will be from that moment.

@babyosisi are you trying to be silly or what?
 Why are you accusing me of referring to America as a Christian state? My reply was based on what @Donnie posted earlier. Please go over my post again and stop proposing false allegations. If there is anybody to blame, it should be @Donnie, but you won't realize it was @Donnie that made the claim and not me, only because I am defending Islam and @donnie stands for Christianity. I take no offense, as I expected nothing better than that from you.

By the way, have I said anything about reasons for arrest concerning Guantanamo bay? Or can this be one of your efforts to "skip over the hook"? I said they are being treated like animals. Believe you me babyosisi, I'd rather be put to death than experience what those people experience! Do I sound like Saddam Hussein's son to you? or most probably his great fan!?!? Who told you Abacha is my own? Have I ever on this forum claimed to own Abacha?(Make more sense when you post.) Am I free to say that they are good Muslim examples of leaders? Even if you say there are good Muslim leaders in the world, does that buttres your point? Or what are you driving at? You should be confused on your statement yourself! because I am comfused by that! Can you name the good Muslim leaders you know, or are you just trying to be hypocritic so that people can say you're generous in your statement? Advice: Make your stand and stand by it!
As long as you Muslims refuse to point out the ills you've caused the world,we'll continue to see you the same.Period. What has this statement got to do with the previous line attesting good Muslim leaders? For your information, Islam has not caused the world any ill. It has come to the world to clean up the mess that you ill-hearted ones have imposed. If you wish, see Islam as the same, and if you wish, have changed opinions toward it. It will be to your own loss or gain.
The other thing olaajia,travel to Saudi and have a female relative or friend go with you and ask her to drive you down the street wearing regular clothing with her hair nicely done.
Stop at a street corner and carry a case of beer out from the trunk of your car.

Then return to the forum and tell us about it,post a picture so we can count your digits too.
Christianity did introduce freedom to the world that's why you don't go around today with those flowing garments ,a full grown beard and your wife looking like an Igbo masquerade in full regalia.
This is absolute rubbish, and makes no sense, not even one close to the Nucleus of a cell! What is the essence of that statement? Why should I go to land and intensionally break the laws of the land? What should I be proving by that? Is it that I am above the law. The quranic law teaches Muslims not to drink, and you say I should go to Saudi with a case of beer.  If I may ask, what do you consider "normal dressing"? putting on mini skirts and tight dresses? I consider that mode of dressing abnormal(Shabbily), but for your sake, I will take it as normal. The Quranic law forbids women to dress shabbily, and you say I should take my relative that is dressed "normally(In your context)" to Saudi. What sense have you made Where you not thought to behave like the Romans when you're in Rome?

@Softee, your post looks confused to me!

Softee:

When did i say the old testament was not important? It is very important however this is the new age, we are living in the end times so the new testament applies more. Jesus is not a man, i stated before he was with God in the beginning he only came in human form to save mankind. God was always a good God even when people were put to death for certain sins but let me put it like this. In the old testament when a lot of things were going wrong for God, he had to destroy cities, the evil one was creating more sins, he wanted to save the good people out there, in which he done through Jesus. No way has the old testament got anything to do with Islamic laws, no matter what you say, no matter how many mind tricks you create, the bible does not encourage fighting and war and enables men to beat their wives.

  And yes! you outrightly denied the oldtestament when you said that Jesus came to shed the light on it, except if I misunderstood you. If I did then please explain what you meant by that "light shed" statement. Don't tell me that this is the new age, so the new testament applies more, and the old testament is meant for the old age!?! How much more can you try to confuse me? Why should we believe the new testament instead of the old one? Because both of us clearly know that these two testaments clearly contradict themselves. OR is it because the word new is common to both "new testament" and "new age"? You have not answered my question. once again it was: are you insinuating that the old testament that someworth conforms with the Islamic laws was sent by a bad God(God forbid such attestations) and then the bad God later turned to a Good God when he Gave birth to Jesus, His only begotten son(God does not have the attributes of man, and so cannot beget a son)? You say in the old testament, a lot of things were going wrong for God(why should things go wrong for a perfect being?) so He had to destroy cities, Who talked about destruction of cities? I raised the Issue of amputating of hands, plucking of eyes, putting to death, among other punishments. If you've heard about the Shari-ah law, you'll find that some of these laws conform with it, like amputating of hands for instance so what do you mean by "the old testament has nothing to do with the Islamic law"? So what mind tricks am I creating? Maybe I have I played a trick on you to loose your eye sight, or see something different from what is in the old testament. Where have you gotten the information that Islam permits the beating of one's wife? Is that another mind trick that has affected your research skills? Your research skills are pathetic! One more thing! According to your old testament, when it says put to death, those that do not believe in God, does that mean anything order that waging war against the unbelievers? Why then do you deny the fact that it tells you to wage war against the unbelievers? In these two statements God was always a good God even when people were put to death for certain sins and the evil one was creating more sins, he wanted to save the good people out there, are you telling me that there were more sins in the old days than now, when even revelations in your bible declares that during the end days, sins will be on the increase? OR maybe you are saying that in the old days, it was OK to put people to death by stoning as in the old testament, but now it is not OK? Why? You did not ask what kind of God revealed the old testament, but you're asking what kind of God allows us to wage war against the unbelievers. Your hypocrisy is on the loose!

Olaajia
it is not possible for me to reason with you since in the 21st century your ideal state is one that cuts off peoples hands and feet for petty crimes,treats women a little higher than animals,a country that has produced more terrorists than any other.May your allah help you.

If you must know,I lived in Kano and Kaduna for a while,I heard of homosexuality first amongst muslims in these 2 states who would lock up their wives and child brides behind high walls and go messing around with fellow men.
Stop all the pretence and call Islam what it is:a religion that sees nothing wrong with that lacks tolerance,is murderous in nature and degrades women.Remember Aisha 6,9 or 16?


I see it and the whole world sees it,you can never convince anyone otherwise,shout from now till the cows come home.
Why do you think the red flags all go up when you muslims want to go to the west?they know you're not coming to spread peace.Muslims don't hate Christians you say, how then do you explain the foolish utterances of your leaders in Naija that have sent your youths in murderous rampage?

Call me any names you want,it will never be anything compared to the thousands you have slaughtered in the name of your allah.
And their blood is on your head and the head of your children and children's children if you fail to condemn the actions of your fellow koran carrying hooligans.

Judgement day is coming .Repent now before it's too late.

Olaajia
it is not possible for me to reason with you since in the 21st century your ideal state is one that cuts off peoples hands and feet for petty crimes,treats women a little higher than animals,a country that has produced more terrorists than any other.May your allah help you.

If you must know,I lived in Kano and Kaduna for a while,I heard of homosexuality first amongst muslims in these 2 states who would lock up their wives and child brides behind high walls and go messing around with fellow men.
Stop all the pretence and call Islam what it is:a religion that sees nothing wrong with            that lacks tolerance,is murderous in nature and degrades women.Remember Aisha 6,9 or 16?


I see it and the whole world sees it,you can never convince anyone otherwise,shout from now till the cows come home.
Why do you think the red flags all go up when you muslims want to go to the west?they know you're not coming to spread peace.Muslims don't hate Christians you say, how then do you explain the foolish utterances of your leaders in Naija that have sent your youths in murderous rampage?

Call me any names you want,it will never be anything compared to the thousands you have slaughtered in the name of your allah.
And their blood is on your head and the head of your children and children's children if you fail to condemn the actions of your fellow koran carrying hooligans.

Judgement day is coming .Repent now before it's too late.

@olaajia since you introduced the subject of shabby dressing,did you read of what was found in the rooms of the 9/11 terrorists.
In case you don't know there were  evidence of bar hopping,escorts and obscene pictures,perhaps they were previewing their virgins,hypocrites!!!.