I have just realised that many christians do not study their Bible. Imagine some one claiming the Bible does not condone slavery.

Slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.



However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)


Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)


The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

Most christians don't really read the bible,so what do you expect?
The dark side of the bible is either not known to them,or they just decide to overlook it.

Alphazee:

I have just realised that many christians do not study their Bible. Imagine some one claiming the Bible does not condone slavery.

1 Corinthians 7:21 -- Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.

Philemon 1:15 & 16 -- For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord?

Will a study of The Scourge of Slavery help?

Alphazee:

Plagiarizing EvilBible.com does not prove that you have studied the Bible!

http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

cgift says,

longman83:

Alphazee:

Plagiarizing EvilBible.com does not prove that you have studied the Bible!

http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

Lol. . . to even imagine that she would accuse ofthers of not having studied their Bibles.

pilgrim.1:

longman83 link=topic=109808.msg1910538#msg1910538 date=1201883674:

Alphazee:

Plagiarizing EvilBible.com does not prove that you have studied the Bible!

http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

Lol. . . to even imagine that she would accuse ofthers of not having studied their Bibles.

The issue of whether or not he plagiarized the post is a red herring. The fact is that these things are written in the bible, and many Christians, blinded by their faith, either don't know or casually ignore it. Yet many of  these same Christians claim that the bible is unflawed, and should be literally interpreted.

@dtw_sola,

dtw_sola:

The issue of whether or not he plagiarized the post is a red herring. The fact is that these things are written in the bible, and many Christians, blinded by their faith, either don't know or chose to overlook or ignore it. Yet many of  these same Christians claim that the bible is unflawed, and should be literally interpreted.

Your assumptions are unfortunately as otiose as the poster's motive in opening this thread. Rather than hide behind the terse remark that these things are written in the Bible, we have invited the poster to a discussion - was that too hard a challenge for her - or for you? Alphazee cannot just make allegations against Christians where she in very fact has not demonstrated a willingness to enter into a discussion and reason out issues coherently - not minding the fact that some responses already have left a few observations for her to discuss. Where has she honestly attended to those issues?

Only someone who is neck deep in poverty would decry the need for helpers (so-called slaves). The God of the bible does not condemn helpers but gives a very good guidelines for their treatments. Helpers (so called slaves) are very important in our everyday lives. If you work at a place for somebody, you are a slave. Why? You are working for somebody and he pays you at the end of the month. So if you dont like to be called a slave, get pack out and establish your own business and tell me you will do the work alone from Human Resources to Driving, to Sales, to Marketing, to Cleaning, to , So please wake up.

What do helpers (so called slaves) do? They help in your house keeping chores and get paid in one form or the other; they are not to be converted into sex tools and treated as subhumans. The God of the bible never instructed neither did He permit it! So, the most important challenge is what how you treat them and what your guiding Book be it the Bible or Quran says about treating them.

@pilgrim.1

Which kind discussion? You posted a few "out of context" bible passages with no commentary of your own, and a link to some Christian website. How is that an invitation for discussion? The terse remark was fitting for your initial post. If anything, the verses you posted seem like further jusification for slavery.  I'll bite anyway.

For added context, I Corinthians 7: 20 & 21 says

20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

21Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.

Care not for it is similar to saying that servants/slaves should embrace their lowly status in society, and verse 20 confirms this by saying "abide in the same calling", even if that is the  position as a slave.

And the second passage you posted is irrelevant to the topic. It was a letter written from Paul to Philemon encouraging him to free 1 former slave of his (Onesimus) who had newly converted to Christianity. It does not say that all slaves should be freed, or that slavery is in fact wrong. The fact that Philemon, a revered Christian man, even had a slave, again shows that the bible  does not frown on the practice.

Nothing you posted in any way counters the original topic of discussion that "The bible does indeed condone slavery"?

dtw_sola, would you then assume that it is biblically wrong to have a driver, gardner or housegirl?

alphazee . . .you are fighting a losing battle. Why do you persist in posting these meaningless threads at an attempt to discredit christianity?

Anyways God permitted slavery but it's not His preference for mankind. There are many things that happen that's not the way God would rather have it but becos of man's fallen nature, God works within it. Make sense? People sold themselves into slavery those days when they were too poor or were captured as a result of war etc.

That's why God went out of His way so many times to stress the humane treatment of slaves and to give them rights and special priviledges. If you read the bible you'll see how mal or mistreatment of slaves is not permitted by God. They are just as much human as their owners and God limited the powers of the masters over the slaves- don't forget that.

and if you read further you'll see where God instituted that certain slaves be freed after a certain amount of yrs and given the financial/material means to survive on their own.
Slavery was allowed by God, but it was not his doing or idea, it was ours- like every other messed up thing on this rock called earth.

4Him:

dtw_sola, would you then assume that it is biblically wrong to have a driver, gardner or housegirl?

4Him, that is a poor analogy. A slave is purchased property of the slavemaster. A driver or housegirl is not property. They are paid wages, and they can leave at anytime if they so choose.

dtw_sola:

4Him, that is a poor analogy. A slave is purchased property of the slavemaster. A driver or housegirl is not property. They are paid wages, and they can leave at anytime if they so choose.

dtw_sola you are very right . . . while the bible never outrightly condoned or condemned slavery it gave specific instructions on how slaves were to be treated. Remember that those were primitive days and slavery was a product of society and not a biblical commandment.

Deut 15: 12 And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.
13 And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty:
14 Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him.

Certainly sir . . . Hebrews could only keep slaves (if we must use that term) for 6 yrs only and those slaves were paid handsome wages. More like a househelp or driver today except we dont buy them anymore simply because we as a culture have since come to regard slavery as morally wrong.

Lemme also add that God is more intrested in the soul than about your physical/societal status. That's why Jesus didn't ovethrow the Roman govt and free the Isrealites. His kingdom is one of the spirit and of power. God's primary concern is not whether you're a slave or free man, but about whether you are born again and ready to meet with Him.

I'm not saying He's not a God of justice, He is. But your soul is 1million times more important than your status in life. There will come a time at the judgement when everyone will get rewarded for what they've done whether good or bad. Whether slave or free.

_{hmm but all this "discussion" is probably in vain cos the poster never sticks around to back up her accusations. In a few hrs we'll see more threads claiming some other falsehood about christianity - pathetic if you ask me}

Longman83 wrote:
Alphazee:

Plagiarizing EvilBible.com does not prove that you have studied the Bible!

I have never claimed authorship to anything. Check what I stated in my first post, from which others, including this, follow:

Re: Bible Quiz For All. on: January 29, 2008, 01:44 PM
, I was researching to answer the quiz when I stumbled on materials that got me confused. Please can any one help!!!!

Like I've always said, I won't be dragged into personal attacks . I have nothing to discuss. I only STUMBLED on those Holy verses from the Holy Book. Shike nan!

Can someone put it in layman's language how to interpret "how the bible says Christian slave owners should treat their slaves" ? I would prefer constructive interpretations with references. Thank you.

Alphazee:

Like I've always said, I won't be dragged into personal attacks . I have nothing to discuss. I only STUMBLED on those Holy verses from the Holy Book. Shike nan!

you just seem to be stumbling a lot lately isnt it? Just wondering how most of ur "stumbles" happen to be from plagiarised websites rather than thru your dilligent search of the holy bible.

What is the difference?If she decides to research the bible itself,she will still come up with the same verses that support slavery,so why go the tedious way?

4Him:

you just seem to be stumbling a lot lately isnt it? Just wondering how most of your "stumbles" happen to be from plagiarised websites rather than through your dilligent search of the holy bible.

Logical:

Can someone put it in layman's language how to interpret "how the bible says Christian slave owners should treat their slaves" ? I would prefer constructive interpretations with references. Thank you.

Fair question. Here you go:
Ephesians 6:5-9
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.
9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Similar instructions are given in Colossians 4:1
1Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

Frankly I believe that the passages speak for themselves and need no further explanation. And even without them, it would be ridiculous to assume that a God and Christ who encourages us to 'love our neighbours as ourselves' and to 'do to others what you would have do unto you' would ever be pleased with roughhandling of slaves.

@Longman83:

Fair question. Here you go:
Ephesians 6:5-9
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.
9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

But the phrase, 'like the slave of Christ,' connotes that Christ have slave or the position of Christians, who were being addressed, is slave to master Jesus. Am I wrong here? This is just to bring to your attentionthat you Christians falsely elevate yourselves to being more than slaves of 'God/Lord,' the position that the Muslims gladly declare and covet for themselves and never shy of the position and not proud to admit it.

The next phrase, ''doing the will of God," from the same verse 6 of Ephesians, connotes that Jesus is different from God. But yet, God is truly the one in power and can control, between the two. If Christians are slaves of Jesus, then we must have to assume that they could not be children of the master of Jesus, who has them as slaves. In other verses which follow, 7, 8 and 9, the evidence of Lord/God being the One to ultimately be feared and therefore do deeds of goodness, whether one is a slave of master, as dwellers on the earth. Further true and absolute reward comes from the Lord alone. God/Lord is the Master of the slave and the human master; both being slaves here, because of the usage of master for God/Lord, and He does not favor a person based on the earthly status. Now, how can you explain what the post Jesus era of the Bible says about God and Jesus, and your claim of childrenhood of god, while Jesus is His subordinate, and you are even the slaves of Jesus?

Similar instructions are given in Colossians 4:1
1Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

Both earthly slaves and master are under the Master in heaven. Who is this heavenly Master, Jesus or his Master God/Lord? Please read your own post above so that you do not contradict yourself.

Frankly I believe that the passages speak for themselves and need no further explanation. And even without them, it would be ridiculous to assume that a God and Christ who encourages us to 'love our neighbours as ourselves' and to 'do to others what you would have do unto you' would ever be pleased with roughhandling of slaves.

Your usage of 'encourages,' is indicating that God and Christ is One? If this is so, please explain why Jesus himself will provide a different view from you about him and God/Lord; Mark 12 Verse 29 reads Your God and my God, is but One Lord. Please explain without mincing word.

@Jesoul:

alphazee . . .you are fighting a losing battle. Why do you persist in posting these meaningless threads at an attempt to discredit christianity?

Battle? She is not fighting any of you. She just opened your eyes to the reality of your Book. Meaningless, it is but you have it in your 'Holy book.' But for what purpose if you are ashamed of it; as a filler, to give impression of a million words? Yet you are hiding a good portion of it. If you don't like it, petition your 'Inspired writers,' for their gaffles. They made a mess of what Jesus was sent with, in the first place and people are just turning your attention to it. Thats all.

Anyways God permitted slavery but it's not His preference for mankind. There are many things that happen that's not the way God would rather have it but because of man's fallen nature, God works within it. Make sense? People sold themselves into slavery those days when they were too poor or were captured as a result of war etc.

It seems as if you are saying that Humans (creation of God), forced the hands of God, in this matter of slavery, according to your Christian understanding. No wonder that you can then postulate as a Christian, that God did not know the workings (inner workings of man), as if he lacks full knowledge of man, hence he came to the earth as a human being to experience man's condition. Until that time, He did not know fully His Own creations. Now what is your explanation of your statement about God having to adjust to the unexpected condition of slavery imposed by man on another man? Before this slavery condition was ever instituted by man, was God aware of it, that it will happen? If your answer is yes, then your explanation is lost above. And if your answer is no, it simply points out to us that you in Christianity believe that God/ Lord does not have full knowledge hence no wonder that you make him to be Jesus on earth. In this condition, we realise that Jesus said that he himself lacked the exact time of the hour. Who then has the exact time, considering that Jesus said that the One Who had the knowledge about the hour is the One Who is in heaven?

{quote] That's why God went out of His way so many times to stress the humane treatment of slaves and to give them rights and special priviledges. If you read the bible you'll see how mal or mistreatment of slaves is not permitted by God. They are just as much human as their owners and God limited the powers of the masters over the slaves- don't forget that.

[/quote] You use owners and God here. Owners does not mean gods, does it? Maybe you wanted to write Owner, meaning God, you talk about God limited the powers of the masters over the slaves. It is you who should remember that God is aware of all things and even before it happens. You tend to limit the Power of God and unfortunately, you equate Him with man too much, about His knowledge, here.

[quote] and if you read further you'll see where God instituted that certain slaves be freed after a certain amount of years and given the financial/material means to survive on their own.
Slavery was allowed by God, but it was not his doing or idea, it was ours- like every other messed up thing on this rock called earth.

You need to pick up the Qur'an and read it, for good and sound knowledge. You will see that God gradually bleed the blood of superiority from the vein of true believers. There is no true believer that can say that Qur'an permits him to have a slave and worse muslims as slaves. We see a band of hypocrites around the world and indeed Africa (Mauritania, a good example), where those who claim to be Muslims are oppressing and indeed having other humans and muslims as their slaves! They can not justify it by Qur'an or by hadith. My proof is the Last Sermon of the prophet in his only Hajj, that he made (as).

Lemme also add that God is more intrested in the soul than about your physical/societal status. That's why Jesus didn't ovethrow the Roman govt and free the Isrealites. His kingdom is one of the spirit and of power. God's primary concern is not whether you're a slave or free man, but about whether you are born again and ready to meet with Him.

Thats true; Afterall, Jesus told the desciples to sell their Cloaks and purchase swords instead. But tell me, how large an army to be able to overthrow the Roman govt at that time? Considering that you will be dealing with Rome itself? My sister, your idea will not have worked. There would have been a bloodbath, and the majority of the dead would have been the companions of Jesus. Remember that they were not battled hardened and were also very small, without their own finance to prosecute any real war with an established government which they were under its rule of governance.

I'm not saying He's not a God of justice, He is. But your soul is 1million times more important than your status in life. There will come a time at the judgement when everyone will get rewarded for what they've done whether good or bad. Whether slave or free.

When you make this argument, do not for get that it applied to everyone. Therefore the resposibility of your good reward (paradise/heaven) and bad reward (hell fire/lake of fire) depends on your effort alone, under the Mercy and Justie of God, alone. It has nothing to do with Jesus. Jesus role was to guide his people up to the time that the prophet after him arrives. The same way, the prophet before Jesus (say moses) giided his people up to when Jesus arrived!

hmm but all this "discussion" is probably in vain because the poster never sticks around to back up her accusations. In a few hrs we'll see more threads claiming some other falsehood about christianity - pathetic if you ask me

Thank God she and others who are not Christians are not asking you. But your presentation to defend the Bible, even though, you could not deny any of her entries as not from the within the pages of Covers of the Bible, is very weak, in tone and substance. i can almost feel how contrived you are. My advice to you is that you pick up Qur'an and read about real life and how the process of divesting human beings from evil deed and reinforcing the process of good deed is very methodical and straight forward.

@4Him:

Deut 15: 12 And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.
13 And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty:
14 Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him.

Certainly sir . . . Hebrews could only keep slaves (if we must use that term) for 6 years only and those slaves were paid handsome wages. More like a househelp or driver today except we don't buy them anymore simply because we as a culture have since come to regard slavery as morally wrong.

This only address the Hebrews and it does not address any other group. It is just like interest among them: When they lend to a person who is within their 'children of Israel,' bloodline, instead of Gentiles, they do not charge any single interest. But when they lend to others, the 'Gentiles,' the interest is geometrical, and its compounded from when the shoes hit the pavement? How about 25%? How does the Gentile slaves fit in the above Deut. 15, verses 12 through 14? I bet the scrip is flipped when it comes to the Gentiles. David, jawo kuro ni ti apon ti o yo, lo gbomiila ka no. You need to quit this thing!

you just seem to be stumbling a lot lately isnt it? Just wondering how most of your "stumbles" happen to be from plagiarised websites rather than through your dilligent search of the holy bible.

That was your Bible. The whole truth and nothing but the truth. Dilligent search of the Bible pages will yield exactly this. This is nothing outside the Covers you know; like TRINITY. Yet you used TrINITY, an unknown word, which you develop an idea on, to justify the unjustifiable; the persons in One God!