InesQor: Although of course that is the Epimenides paradox, quoted by Paul.

Epimenides, a Cretan himself, said "All Cretans are always liars", and Paul said the Cretan is right.

Is Epimenides lying by saying All Cretans are always liars (including himself), or is he telling the truth by saying they are always liars (a paradox, since he is Cretan).

This is a philosophical digression from the topic; I think my response above should rather suffice.

Which, to pursue the digression further, has often got me wondering what Paul was really thinking there. the general tone of the passage seems serious enough but I wonder if Paul felt like just dropping a riddle or a joke at that point. How does epimenides paradox support Paul's argument at that point? Please if any one has any idea abeg let me know.

Don't make it a long ting cos I don't want to derail the thread. Thank you.

Pastor AIO:

Which, to pursue the digression further, has often got me wondering what Paul was really thinking there. the general tone of the passage seems serious enough but I wonder if Paul felt like just dropping a riddle or a joke at that point. How does epimenides paradox support Paul's argument at that point? Please if any one has any idea abeg let me know.

Don't make it a long ting cos I don't want to derail the thread. Thank you.

Lol. I don't know if he said that on a lighter note, but verse 5 says

Titus 1:5 For this reason I left you [behind] in Crete, that you might set right what was defective and finish what was left undone, and that you might appoint elders and set them over the churches (assemblies) in every city as I directed you.

before telling Titus the qualities to expect in those to be appointed. verse 10 then contrasts the qualities with the general behaviour of Cretans (for there are many of them... etc) so verse 11 only stresses that general misbehaviour further.

tpia1: which misconduct did you present?

i dont read long stories- can you summarise plz.

All bible verses presented include the following misconduct and misbehaviour:

Speaking lies in hypocrisy

Shameful way of making money

Those who rob the temple

Stealing

Committing adultery

Abhorring idols

Rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception

Dishonest gain

Those are all the misconducts and misbehaviours listed in most verses quoted since this thread started. Need I say more? Judge for yourself.

ogoamaka99: @InesQor,
My dear InesQor,my candid advise to you is to be careful how you judge the action of a pastor. What you call misbehavior may be GOD,S direct instruction. Take for instance what happened in Isaiah 20:2 At the same time spake the Lord by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot.
Isaiah 20:3 And the Lord said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;
From the above action of prophet Isaiah, it it is done in today's world wont we accuse Isaiah of misbehavior?

Thanks for the response Ogoamaka99.

I'm not sure this scripture really applies in defence of the point though. In the Old Testament, the people needed to be talked to via prophets. They had no means of confirming what the prophet told them, but it's different with us where the Holy Spirit bears witness with the word that we receive.

THUS if a modern day man of God does something that seems out of character, we are allowed to inspect it. And see for ourselves. We're not spiritually blind like the Israelites were.

ogoamaka99: @InesQor,
<snip>...</snip>
From the above action of prophet Isaiah, it it is done in today's world wont we accuse Isaiah of misbehavior?

Besides, have you noticed that all the misbehaviours outlined here are interpersonal? Isaiah's actions for instance did not affect any other person. He was a prophet for the sake of example. That was his role, and he acted it out. Not like he asked some people to strip nekkid and walk barefoot for 3 years WHEN he was the one who God told, and God didn't tell the others.

I hope you see my point cos I feel like I began rambling at some point.

Goshen360:

All bible verses presented include the following misconduct and misbehaviour:

Speaking lies in hypocrisy

Shameful way of making money

Those who rob the temple

Stealing

Committing adultery

Abhorring idols

Rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception

Dishonest gain

Those are all the misconducts and misbehaviours listed in most verses quoted since this thread started. Need I say more? Judge for yourself.

going by that list, at the very least, you yourself are guilty of misbehaviour, since you've openly done the bolded here on nl.

^^^
Rebelling against you or who? Kindly expose me where I erred, confront and rebuke me and I will amend my ways by God's grace. Okay.

tpia1:
going by that list, at the very least, you yourself are guilty of misbehaviour, since you've openly done the bolded here on nl.

Errrm... this is besides the topic though. Unless Goshen360 is a pastor (I don't think he is)?

^^^
I'm not a pastor yet but will be a pastor or an Apostle in due season at the time of life...if Christ tarries. I will not be afraid to be confronted, rebuked, chastised whenever I err as a fallible man and by the grace of God, I will never quote "touch not and judge not God's anointed" because all Christians are anointed and one is not superior to the other in the sight of God. This is not to mean we should not respect authorities but to conceal misconducts and misbehaviours is outrightly against biblical teachings. This matter is as simple as ABC when you view scriptures from all angles. It does not equal to rebellion.

go through your posts and threads here and check out your reasons for starting most of them.

simply rebellion against authority and criticizing/judging others most of the time.

remember you and i arent strangers to each other on this forum.


few examples:

https://www.nairaland.com/982976/what-heresy-wealth-ungodly-given





https://www.nairaland.com/866519/touch-not-anointed-taken-out

@tpia1 It's starting to look like you have a personal vendetta against Goshen360

What's your take on the discussion topic itself?

i did not address him before he addressed me, so ask him what his problem is.

I've already stated my opinion of his attitude. You can go through my posts again if you missed it before.

What's your take on the discussion topic itself?

reread my posts before you and your friend decided to derail the thread?

Inesqor:

Hallo, been awhile! This is a great question you asked and the ostrich head in sand response (or lack thereof) proves that truth is not really so far off! Rather, its just not "appealing" to those who like the status quo!

Nice!

@ tpia,

I have no personal issue with you and I believe you don't have any against me also aside what we teach from scriptures. In response to the thread you referenced above, when you speak against evils, misconducts and misbehaviours of authority in the body of Christ, that is not rebellious from scriptural view. I do not have much time now as I would have showed what biblical rebellion is.

David, by hierarchy in Israel is greater than Nathan the prophet. When David who was in authority erred and God told Nathan to go rebuke him. When Nathan rebuked him, my dear tpia, David was God's anointed but he did not quote judge not or touch not God's anointed to Nathan the Prophet. Today, we already have the complete revelation of God's word in the final and canonized scriptures, we don't have to wait for God to specifically tell us to confront, rebuke a leader that erred because God had already told us in the final and complete word - the Bible.

You see, evangelism is cheap with mouth and words but more effective when it involves our behaviour and conduct in the society whether as a Christian or a pastor. When the scripture says, "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of us Christian" is because of our conducts and misconducts. That is evangelism by way of living, our conducts and behaviour in the society. Tell me, when a Christian or a pastor sleeps with another man's wife, is that a good conduct and we should not judge such Christian or pastor When a Christian and/or pastor defraud members, steals, gain wealth dishonestly etc, are you saying the bible doesn't judge them already simply because they want to hide under the scripture of "judge not and touch not mine anointed" C'mon tpia, truth be told and not be bent. I will never bend the scripture for any misconduct and gross misbehaviour, be it me or anyone.

I'm out of here.

tpia1:

reread my posts before you and your friend decided to derail the thread?

Oh? Your posts ke? And we derailed? My bad. No wahala.

@nuclearboy:
Egbon mi! Long time indeed! How body? Lol you're welcome. Hope you'll be posting a little more regularly again? (Haha I'm one to speak, I know) Ah na so we see this thread o. Torh. At least it now exists for easy reference.

@Goshen360:
Nice recap. Thank you!

@ goshen

not sure why you insist on typing long epistles for whatever reason.


my first question was define misbehaviour so we know what parameters are being referred to here.

are we talking about actual behaviour, or points of theology which some might disagree with.

my second question had to do with a particular reference quoted by a poster.

you and inesquor took it on yourselves to jump up without allowing the poster to answer, and then derailed the thread from there.

do you have a problem with self control and making way for others to speak?

if you and the op's intention is to bash ministers of God for what you consider the misbehaviours of some of them, then maybe you should be more explicit with your threads and thread titles, so people know what you're about.

Pastor AIO:

Which, to pursue the digression further, has often got me wondering what Paul was really thinking there. the general tone of the passage seems serious enough but I wonder if Paul felt like just dropping a riddle or a joke at that point. How does epimenides paradox support Paul's argument at that point? Please if any one has any idea abeg let me know.

Don't make it a long ting cos I don't want to derail the thread. Thank you.

i looked it up, and what Paul was doing was explaining things to the cretans using their own scholars/schools of thought and theology.


epimenides paradox was a response to prior cretan teachings questioning the divinity of a deity.

David, by hierarchy in Israel is greater than Nathan the prophet. When David who was in authority erred and God told Nathan to go rebuke him. When Nathan rebuked him, David was God's anointed but he did not quote judge not or touch not God's anointed to Nathan the Prophet. Today, we already have the complete revelation of God's word in the final and canonized scriptures, we don't have to wait for God to specifically tell us to confront, rebuke a leader that erred because God had already told us in the final and complete word - the Bible.

nathan the prophet was specifically directed to inform david of his error and the consequences.

so, the rabble and ranting on nl, where groups of idle cultists gather to make noise and throw curses at religion and christian ministers is what you consider God's calling?

how is your friend ptolemeus the anti-christian btw.

thought you fellows usually hang around to nod at each other during such ungodly rallies.

i see your other cultist friend nuclearboy has quickly presented himself to be counted.

Goshen360: @ tpia,



When the scripture says, "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of us Christian" is because of our conducts and misconducts. That is evangelism by way of living, our conducts and behaviour in the society.

so, when you call your cultist friends to come and abuse other christians and christian ministers,are the gentiles not blaspheming God's name?

Tell me, when a Christian or a pastor sleeps with another man's wife, is that a good conduct and we should not judge such Christian or pastor When a Christian and/or pastor defraud members, steals, gain wealth dishonestly etc, are you saying the bible doesn't judge them already simply because they want to hide under the scripture of "judge not and touch not mine anointed" C'mon tpia, truth be told and not be bent. I will never bend the scripture for any misconduct and gross misbehaviour, be it me or anyone.

I'm out of here.

anybody sleeping with another man's wife, whether pastor, priest , bishop or church member, is committing adultery and this is a no-brainer.

defrauding, stealing, etc, are also illegal by any laws you want to name.

HOWEVER your personal envy and annoyance at other people's wealth doesnt make it a crime to be wealthy, geddit?

inasmuch as the wealth wasnt acquired illegally!

@ goshen

here are the bible verses you omitted from your quote:

romans 2

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.

3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

Na wa o.

lets get back on topic, or you can vacate the thread if you like.

tpia1:

nathan the prophet was specifically directed to inform david of his error and the consequences.

so, the rabble and ranting on nl, where groups of idle cultists gather to make noise and throw curses at religion and christian ministers is what you consider God's calling?

how is your friend ptolemeus the anti-christian btw.

thought you fellows usually hang around to nod at each other during such ungodly rallies.

i see your other cultist friend nuclearboy has quickly presented himself to be counted.

It is in the character and genes of dogs to bark, so I'm not surprised Bingo made self known!

This level of acrimony is birthed not only by poor genes, but also bad upbringing & non-stop frustration - lol

InesQor: Na wa o.

I stand 100% in agreement! Oloriburuku feeling funky

nuclearboy:

I stand 100% in agreement! Oloriburuku feeling funky

Why the park language?

he's a gutter rat, as well as a cultist.

goshen's demonic supporters show where his actual allegiance lies.

certainly not with the Christian God.

I just used my Crest Pro-health for Multi-purpose protection and here is the proof

^poison yourself, sweetie.

[img]http://3.bp..com/_PXJ-vhnrHH8/TL1YtZ4Z1aI/AAAAAAAAAG0/6ydozbPNO58/s1600/show+me+your+friends+2.JPG[/img]